View Full Version : Your security perceptions please?
Ladies & Gents;
Im always conducting some research in the fields in which I work and so given the potential of the UKBF, here I am!
Ok so here goes:
The Security industry
Id dare go so far to say that a few of you will use or have used or been involving implementing security measures, even if it is just hiring a static guard type affair - but as a consultant the single biggest issue I face when approaching clients is the all too painful notion that security is not a hard thing to understand. "We'll just put a few guys here and there and they can do the rest" is a common thing.
Additional to that is this funny position where companies get in touch with the mainstream security companies and take their recommendations on what security they need!
Im sure I need not explain the blatant flaw in asking a salesman how much of their product you need! Though on this point most mainstream security companies in my experience tend to either offer the minimalist amount of security precaution required, as to offer a financially attractive package and secure the business - or the opposite end of the stick - to offer a contract that is excessive in nature (though this is by far the rarer occourance!).
The funny thing is, even though a company may approach a security company to ask recommendations, the security company exists to sell you a guard - when you may not need one!
That at least is the manned guarding side. I am also interested in hearing from anyone who has used any specialist protective services.
Many thanks
Pete
Er.. Hello?? NO ONE has anything to say on any of this?
Security effects EVERYONE guys and girls, there are no exceptions...
Come on peeps... someone must have something to say!
Maybe this is just reflective of attitudes toward security... :frown:
Gillie
4th May 2006, 21:15
Cant say I have ever worked in an environment where security has been used ... unless you count a door code??
DuaneJackson
4th May 2006, 21:21
As above....
Mmmm... well of course not everyone will, but I did expect a few responces given the level of activity on the board!
What about you gentlemen, do you have a business premisis?
Gillie
5th May 2006, 06:01
You dont think us 'women' have premises that we have to worry about??
Very sexist and short sighted remark to make!!
SillyJokes
5th May 2006, 06:09
I worked somewhere where there were security guards - they were retained employees.
I think your problem might be that your post is very confusing and, dare I say, boring and so far has had no relevance to the people here.
There is a guy here who runs a security firm in Wales but I dont' know how often he visits.
You dont think us 'women' have premises that we have to worry about??
Very sexist and short sighted remark to make!!
Of course not, you should be in the kitchen cooking up some dinner. :biggrin:
No seriously, it was an oversight and hardly an example of sexism.
But you have my apologies. Im sorry! :smile:
Sillyjokes - not quite sure how its confusing, If you could point out perhaps what causing confusion?
As for boring - well how would you suggest I make the relevant points?
Though is it simply a case of its boring because of what it relates to? Which in itself supports the generalisation that the whole subject of security is one associated with being boring; among other things.
SillyJokes
5th May 2006, 11:57
I'm sorry Pete, but maybe I have a friday head on and afterall I am just a girl but I can't honestly see what you are waffling on about in your post and what you expect us to say.
All I can see is blah blah security, blah blah consultant blah blah (a bit like Santa's Little Helper when Bart was trying to train him to sit). I think the keyword here is 'consultant' which means you know more about your subject than we are interested in and you have over worked your post.
I therefore challenge you to re-write, in three short sentences, your first post and we will endeavour to help.
JustOneUK
5th May 2006, 12:04
Yes you are right, security companies are there to sell you their security products and staff.
What was your point? Is there a question in there somewhere or you just want peoples stories about security experiences?
James
I'm sorry Pete, but maybe I have a friday head on and afterall I am just a girl but I can't honestly see what you are waffling on about in your post and what you expect us to say.
All I can see is blah blah security, blah blah consultant blah blah (a bit like Santa's Little Helper when Bart was trying to train him to sit). I think the keyword here is 'consultant' which means you know more about your subject than we are interested in and you have over worked your post.
I therefore challenge you to re-write, in three short sentences, your first post and we will endeavour to help.
I sincerely wish not to sound condecending Sillyjokes, but there is nothing complicated or any industry specific stuff in what I originally wrote..!
But ok, 3 sentences:
The security companies everyone approaches only sell Guards. Not advice, not knowledge, but Guards. Someone approaching such a company will not receive advice as to best serve their needs. "We can put a guard in for you, job done!" is a stock answer.
Its common sence that you do not ask a salesperson how much of THEIR product they think YOU need. You won't get an unbiased answer.
Yet this happens every single day, because people do not know any better, and usually do not try to.
Now my point/question: What are you peep's perceptions of this; the security industry and any experience you have had dealing with such things.
****
JustOneUK: the point is quite apparant. When you go to buy your food shopping do you go in and ask the store how much food you need? Of course not, you find that out yourself before you go.
In the case of security though its a bit more complicated than just looking in your cupboards/fridge as per the analogy. This is where there is a gross shortfall of knowledge in business.
People just do not understand the depth of what 'security' really is. Its NOT all security guards and peaked caps! *spit*
SillyJokes
5th May 2006, 13:29
That's better (but it still isn't three sentences, ha ha).
My perception now is that you are setting up as or already are a security consultant who can help people judge what security they need.
You think that people need this service because you claim they cannot trust the security providers to act as consultants as well as providers of a the service.
However if you do not know much about a service or product of course you ask the sales staff about the product and I don't see your analagy to food shopping as relevant. Most people know how much food they want, but when it comes to a new project involving an area they have no expertise in then they are capable of shopping around, asking the various sales staff and getting the info and choosing the right provider.
I don't see why I can't trust a reputable provider to supply me with what I need. I would expect that part of the cost covers a consultation. Maybe this is something one learns with experience to be wary of in the area of security.
Also your market is probably bigger businesses than mine with more stuff to have guarded.
Asking about a product is one thing, but suppose you have some security concerns for your business. Typing 'security' into google, once you get through the 1000's of pages of IT security stuff you will come to the manned security bods, all the big names etc...
Now suppose you dont need a guard?
By asking a security company thats cheif source of revenue is to provide guards what advice they have to give, what advice do you think the salesperson you speak to who has sales targets; is going to suggest?
And as it stands shopping around, you are most likely to find nothing more than numerous quotes for guards! Whereas you you may actually need is a sturdier lock or two, some bounce bars and a decent alarm system.
These conclusions I have come to after consulting for clients (this being an extension to that research) -its 9/10 times always the same story.
The 'reputable' providers as such - a couple I have in fact worked for nearly all take a generic approach. Its flawed because everywhere is different. Risk & Threat assessment are two distinct things and can be vastly complicated - way more so than a generic tick sheet as is common.
Frightening as it may be - many of the mainstream companies do not even recognise the difference between a 'threat' and a 'risk'. Im happy to fill you in on that should you wish!
Now your statement at the end there actually tells me more relating to the perceptions of security than the rest of what you wrote: 'bigger businesses than mine with more stuff to guard':
1) Size does not matter, every business has security concerns of one sort of another.
2) Its not about guards!
Now, point 1) the size of the business does not always mean you need any specific security measures taken or advice on such. If for example you run the business from home, Im sure you know how to lock your doors & windows etc - its all common sense. There are endless examples and many depend on the nature of the business (a small business that is a jewlerry shop for example).
Point 2) This is the perception point. Why is security nearly always perceived to be about guards?
Quite simply, people do not know any better.
Now I am in a position to educate many people of the realities of such things - something in fact already begun with what I have stated so far and am certainly happy to share a lot more besides with this forum as a gesture of good faith.
JustOneUK
5th May 2006, 14:54
When you go to kwik fit for brake pads, they tell you to have new discs, spark plugs = new oil, you don't take your car to someone who doesn't do cars.
A financial advisor will always sell you a pension or some kind of insurance that you may not need...you can never have enough, right?
Same for security, if you don't know what you want or need then you are going to get sold everything you could possibly need. As is best with these things it's always advisable to get second/third opinions. One would think most companies do this? or at least get some kind of risk assessment done.
James
or at least get some kind of risk assessment done.
James
Bingo!
Sadly, so very few people realise that.
I understand what you mean from the other points of view, but to some extent those are quite limited in scope (like you don not need 30 spark plugs and theres only so many brake pads you need) and of course I accept you in some cases have to take the professional opinion of those you approach, but like you say, 2nd, 3rd opinions are available elsewhere.
Just with security, most of the obvious stuff is the Guarding companies, so the second or third opinions you gain will all be in relation to selling you a guard - making all the opinions biased.
Now the risk assessment - few people are even aware of companies carrying out independent threat & risk assessement, which is my whole point - the education is not there.
Most people don't even realise security is now a licensed practise, and unlawful to employ the services of a guard who does not carry a license!
easyasit
6th May 2006, 16:20
ok l;ets see if we can offer some guidence
I have in the past been a security officer. Not sure really what you are aksing in ur thread but i offer this.
Firstly i seem to remeber from my SITO training that security officers are deterrents and no more. They have no more powers than the man on the street. They can perform a citzens arrest etc.
Powers of search are like any other, yes ppl can refuse them, however it can also be built into ones contract that this can be carried out.
The thing to remeber is that though security officers (as the prefer to be called) are a deterrent they are NOT police, and may not be expected to place themselves on the front line.
At the end of the day i suppose their main role also are health and safety, checking to ensure that areas are safe to work in during a patrol and reporting that which isn't.
Safeguiiding property, and calling the police wen there are issues, assuming they could be bothered to come.
Of this also comes the issue of reliability, what calbre of person are you going to expect to employ for the peanuts u will probably be able to pay.
You are expecting long hours, reliability, and someone with a bit of initialive.
I would expect some students might be interested, though probably part time at that.
in return also you are going to provide training for them (SITO?) provide a uniform, and a method of communication (Radio?) you cannot expect them to use their own mobile phones!
Hope this helps
Al
Hi, EasyasIT - thats not quite what I was looking for but what you have there will certainly serve to inform anyone reading of those points you raise.
Thanks