Incompetant Accountant

[Studio54]

My accountant has been completely incompetant and for the last year has not done simple tasks such as adding me as a director to my company, the annual return, completing necessary filing, setting up PAYE, our bookkeeping...etc the list goes on. It all came to a head when Companies house threatened to dissolve the company and one of our clients called to let us know we had been flagged as dissolved on a credit check.
As you can imagine this has caused us issues in winning new business, getting existing clients to pay and damaged our reputation as a professional company. We have spoken to another accountant who made us aware of other issues our accountant should have done but it will cost us a lot of money to sort the problems out and get our business sorted.

Not only was our accountant incompetant but he came round to my house and shouted at me in the street after we emailed him to request he get in touch about the issues our client raised. He drove off in his car leaving us in total shock at his unprofessionalism and the fact he was just leaving us completely in the lurch without the decency to sort out his own mistakes.

I want to know if we have any way of recovering the money we will have to shell out to sort this and if we can prevent him from doing this again to another business I am very concerned that he is not fit to be responsible for peoples business accounts and other people will be put through the expense, stress and issues we are facing at the moment.

Does anyone know if we have any rights or if I can complain to someone about him, he is a company but as far as I know it is just him.

[Andrew @ PLA]

I think there was a thread about this not to long ago ... is the "Accountant" a member of a professional body - if so I would contact them explaining the situation and ask for their guidance.

Good luck ... and sorry you haven't had a good experience.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Does anyone know if we have any rights or if I can complain to someone about him, he is a company but as far as I know it is just him.

First of all did your former accountant issue you with a letter of engagement setting out his/her complaints procedure? If so you should intially use this.

Second if you arent satisfied with the outcome IF he/she is a professionally qualified accountant (and not all individuals who trade as accountants are) you can make a formal complaint to his/her professional body.

You can also consider legal action but you'd need to take some advice from a solicitor.

I am so sorry to hear an 'accountant' has behaved in this manner and do sincerely hope the new one you have appointed will give you the level of service you should expect from a professional person.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Good lord - what a terrible story.

Mind you I have actually heard worse which is terrible.

OK already said but the complaints procedure is the way to go with this but only if he is a member of a professional body.

Now the thing is everyone thinks that all accountants are members of professional bodies.

But let's not get into that argument.

You have too things to do:

- firstly - get your business accounting back on track. See the sticky on how to select an accountant

- secondly, deal with the complaint

Good luck with it all

[Studio54]

Thanks for your advice, unfortunatley we were naive and the accountant didn't even do the necessary money laundering checks let a lone informin us of any complaints procedures. He was recommended to us and highly rated but we haven't seen any level of prefessionalism or decency.

Checking his website I can't see if he is a member of any registered bodies at the moment I just want to get our company back in order as I am concerned we have been illeagally paying ourselves dividends and pay when it wasn't set up but the new company seems to be much better and already sorted a few things we asked him to do over 6 months.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thanks for your advice, unfortunatley we were naive and the accountant didn't even do the necessary money laundering checks let a lone informin us of any complaints procedures. He was recommended to us and highly rated but we haven't seen any level of prefessionalism or decency.

Checking his website I can't see if he is a member of any registered bodies at the moment I just want to get our company back in order as I am concerned we have been illeagally paying ourselves dividends and pay when it wasn't set up but the new company seems to be much better and already sorted a few things we asked him to do over 6 months.

Sadly you arent the first to be caught by someone such as this and wont be the last.

For what its worth I wouldnt dwell too much on trying to get anything from this individual and would put my efforts into getting it right now and getting a decent accountant.

An accountant trades very much on his/her reputation and behaving in such a manner they wont be around too much longer.

I am guessing you never got a letter of engagement?

[Studio54]

I'll check but can't think of recieving one, we filled in all the forms for him to act as our agent and that went through fine.

Feeling better about it all now after speaking to some better accountants- my business partner has unfortunately had similar experiences with accountants with regards to attitude reliability therefore let him get away with a lot of things I would have sacked him over. Fortunately speaking to some better accountants has changed my partners opinion on accountants.

It is people like this that increases a stereotype that accountants are rude etc I personally think we have been unlucky and naive and although I am upset we are having to pay a lot more to get it sorted on top of what we have spent with him I am happy it is getting sorted.

My biggest issue is ither small businesses could be in the same situation if people like him continue to act in this way.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Thanks for your advice, unfortunatley we were naive and the accountant didn't even do the necessary money laundering checks let a lone informin us of any complaints procedures. He was recommended to us and highly rated but we haven't seen any level of prefessionalism or decency.

Checking his website I can't see if he is a member of any registered bodies at the moment I just want to get our company back in order as I am concerned we have been illeagally paying ourselves dividends and pay when it wasn't set up but the new company seems to be much better and already sorted a few things we asked him to do over 6 months.

Well hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Just a check list of things to get checked:



annual return - file this in, ring up companies house and ask them to stop the strike off.Note of strike off happens your bank account will be frozen and you will need to do an admin restore
accounts - when are these due
vat
paye - did you file 2009 / 2010 returns? Are you up to date
self assessment - 2009 / 2010 due 31/01

I think these are the main things for now but get a good accountant on board asap.

We would of course be happy to help :p:p

[MyAccountantOnline]

It is people like this that increases a stereotype that accountants are rude etc I personally think we have been unlucky and naive and although I am upset we are having to pay a lot more to get it sorted on top of what we have spent with him I am happy it is getting sorted.

My biggest issue is ither small businesses could be in the same situation if people like him continue to act in this way.


As a professionally qualified accountant myself it's something I feel very strongly about and just wish the Government would look at some way of protecting the public against bad 'accountants'.

We arent all like this and you will find a good accountant:)

If you want to PM me I'd gladly check to see if I can find this person listed as a qualified accountant for you.

[GGGSurrey]

It is people like this that increases a stereotype that accountants are rude........

There are stereotypes associated to accountants but I've never heard of being rude as one of them!

[Studio54]

I've only come across this accountant being rude as he was very rude to me on a number of occasions even shouting at me in a meeting - not so bad with my business partner (male) but my business partner defended him saying all accountants he worked with were rude and it is what you expect from an accountant - rude, arrogant and bad social skills but good with figures he said. I mentioned this to my husband and mother in law who confirmed they had the same opinion of accountants- as did other people.
I hope this doesn't offend any accountants as you all seem nice and the people we are talking to now don;t seem to fit this bill but I assumed it was a stereotype as it seemed to be a common opinion.
Again the accountants that behave like this only reinforce these opinions and mean others who are not like this suffer.

[MyAccountantOnline]

I hope this doesn't offend any accountants ......

Absolutely no offence taken from this one for sure:)

I am actually ashamed that a fellow 'accountant' has behaved in this manner. In my opinion our profession needs to get rid of individuals like this and the sooner they are gone the better.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

There are good and bad in all walks of life. The challenge is to seek out and find the good

[Studio54]

Agreed there are a lot of companies in my industry that give us a bad rep so I don't want to reinforce any bad stereotypes as there are many good accountants around

[mr. mischief]

It's possible to be good with words and numbers. If you ask around and look hard enough, you should be able to find a local one who can support you properly and sort out this mess.

He or she needs to be someone you can have a proper conversation with so you can get back on track. Companies House, VAT and PAYE are the big priority items because if they've been messed up there can be a fair bit of expense and hassle involved.

If he's been so shoddy, there are probably a few issues lurking around you aren't even aware of yet. So you need someone who will be happy to talk about these as they crop up and not just think "Great a phone call from my new client, a great chance to clock up some fees just listeining to the call, etc..."

[London Photographer]

I took my accountant to court and won- keep all the info of the agreements and take him to the county court- you can issue online now

[DFL]

Nichola - Protecting the term is easier said than done. The most shocking strories of all of the acountants in my area (and I have dealt first hand with these clowns) is from a firm that are ICAEW registered. They seem to think that badge lets them do what they want. Sadly, its seems that that attitude is no far fronm the truth.

Another story I heard this week from ICAEW firm: Gave sole trader a book on double entry bookkeeping, told him to read it, learn it and apply it to his bookkeeping, then had the audacity to charge him £30.00 for the book!

Some of the best accountants I have worked with have been unqualified and some of the worst qualified, and vice versa of course.

OP - Outrageous story. Good to see that you don't tar all with same brush - it's like any trade - there are good ones, very good ones, and some that shouldnt waste everyones time by posing as a business. Good luck with sorting it out.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Nichola - Protecting the term is easier said than done.

Hi DFL - I think any of us that have been in the profession for a few years realise that, and its an age old argument that will go on and on, and on.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the qualified v unqualified debate in my opinion the general public need to be made aware of the consequences of using an unqualified 'accountant' and its about time they had some comeback when using such accountants.

I like you have seen some horrendous work performed by qualified accountants that puts our profession to shame.

PS I have no H in my name;):)

[Wild Goose]

"What we have here is a failure to communicate..."
I know that sounds as though it could be JFK's or Lennon's last words, but in fact they come from Paul Newman.

At the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, it seems to me OP that you had a breakdown in communication with your accountant... you wanted him to be proactive, and he wasn't. Maybe he was waiting for your instructions before doing the things you listed?

I have a motor mechanic client who faces similar dilemnas daily - some people, myself included, just want him to go ahead and change the brake pads and the rubber band if he thinks they need fixing; others would rather wait until their wheel falls off before shelling out for a new wheel bearing. So with the former type of customer he's proactive; with the latter he cannot do the work until instructed or he'd end up working for free. And, as we all know, anyone who works for free won't be in business for long. :eek:

Nicola (without an "h"), you're very sweet but you don't have to apologise and carry the can for your fellow accountants. I once knew an FCA who, for reasons known best only to himself, sported white spats with his pin-stripe suit - all he needed was a violin case and he'd have made fair game for Elliot Ness. I also worked for the only Certified Chartered Accountant in town - he was an FCA who had a spell in an asylum. For neither of these specimens do I feel inclined to shoulder responsibility or proffer apologies. One wore crazy shoes and the other a crazy hat, but businesspeople are grown-ups and it's up to them to spot the duds. Those people are not your fault.

DFL, I think £30 for a bookkeeping lesson is cheap as chips. Making it a DIY lesson is an inspired move on the accountant's part. This is an accountant with commercial bones who knows how to turn a profit. After all, how much good to anyone's business is an accountant who doesn't know enough to make a profit for himself? :|

OP, I'm not taking sides but rather am rolling out the case for the defence. Devil's Advocate, perhaps. ;)

[MyAccountantOnline]

Nicola, you're very sweet but you don't have to apologise and carry the can for your fellow accountants.

Thank you kind sir - it's just shameful how some 'accountants' behave though:mad: :)

[bbbbb]

At least with a qualified accountant, you do have someone to whom to complain, whether they deal with the complaint adequately or not. With an unqualified accountant there is no-one to whom to complain and they can carry on making a mess without anyone to interfere with them.

[Wild Goose]

Thank you kind sir - it's just shameful how some 'accountants' behave though:mad: :)

Hmmm living in Moonraker country has made us too soft - there's a big bad world out there, accountants included. The OP, and presumably his accountant, hails from Islington. I'm mindful of my journey down the M23 over the weekend, when I was tailgated by an angry young accountant who for ten miles flashed his lights and shook his fist. Ouch!

Conversely, during my morning bike ride I recently stopped outside the scrumpy house that opens at 10am and left my cycle propped outside the pub wall. Well, it was a warm morning! :) From a passing gaggle of cockney tourists came a voice incredulous that I was leaving it unlocked. See the point? You and I live in a veritable Paradise where PEOPLE behave quite well - not just Accountants. It's time you took a day-trip to the Great Metropolis just to remind yourself what's happening out there ;)

[febes]

I will admit to having not read past page one, and as a student 'accountant' I am appalled!

I believed that all people working in accounts of any kind had to, by law, be registered with one of the professional bodies. Obviously I am wrong about this!

This is why I want to be registered with AAT. Not that I will ever behave like that, but I hope it will bring assurance to any future clients that should they have a problem, there is someone to help sort it.

I hope that this situation never happens for you again, and let it be a warning to those who are searching for accountants, that word of mouth is not always good!

[Wild Goose]

At least with a qualified accountant, you do have someone to whom to complain, whether they deal with the complaint adequately or not. With an unqualified accountant there is no-one to whom to complain and they can carry on making a mess without anyone to interfere with them.

Okay, but on my same starboard tack of playin' Devil's Advocate, a few in this thread have already been at pains to point out that there are as many good unqualifieds as there are poor qualifieds.

In short, it's all very comforting having an overseeing professional body to receive a complaint and kick ass. But the reality is that it all comes down to the attitude and communicative skills of the accountant. I seriously believe there is a place in this industry for a "suck-it-and-see" trial period or something of that ilk for businesspeople to "try out" an accountant before committing. After all, only a fool would get married without an engagement period. Our industry seems to be all courtship promises and difficult-to-undo leaps over the broom.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Thank you kind sir - it's just shameful how some 'accountants' behave though:mad: :)

It's shameful how some human beings behave. :rolleyes:

But that's life ;)

[MyAccountantOnline]

I'm mindful of my journey down the M23 over the weekend, when I was tailgated by an angry young accountant who for ten miles flashed his lights and shook his fist. Ouch!


Maybe you were driving too slowly!???:D:D

PS How did you know he was an accountant?

Joking apart I take the point we are very fortunate living in a very nice part of the country which is sometimes a little sheltered from the big bad world.

[DFL]

So with qualifieds clients have the option of complaining to a prof body.....sounds good in theory until tried in practice then it's apparent that some of the bodies make it as difficult as possible in the hope that the client will go away, as most usually do.

Nicola - Sorry about the mispelling :)

Wild Goose - The sole trader client didnt want a bookkeeping lesson and certainly didnt want to pay for it, client was a manual worker with (by own admission) no ability to record double entry bookkeeping, wasnt given any options juts told to read the book and do it properly, and was then charged for it. Certainly wasn't a commercially minded accountant as they lost that client and many others due to their poor client management skills.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

So with qualifieds clients have the option of complaining to a prof body.....sounds good in theory until tried in practice then it's apparent that some of the bodies make it as difficult as possible in the hope that the client will go away, as most usually do.




Have to tried to do it then? Do you have examples of this please?

[Wild Goose]

Maybe you were driving too slowly!???:D:D

I drive like an old woman :redface:


PS How did you know he was an accountant?

He had a pen in his top pocket ;)

[DFL]

Have to tried to do it then? Do you have examples of this please?

Yes I have done this personally (and I only ever complain to any reg body as an absolute last resort) and I have clients who have done so, all generally treated as a nuisance and fobbed off.

There have been exceptions, sometimes its the luck of the draw as to who is assigned to deal with you, the response I received from one lady was exceptional and in direct contrast to previous experiences.

[MyAccountantOnline]

I drive like an old woman :redface:


I wondered if you were on that tractor again - isn't that how us country bumpkins get about;)



He had a pen in his top pocket ;)

OK - fair enough:D:D

[Alpha]

So with qualifieds clients have the option of complaining to a prof body.....sounds good in theory until tried in practice then it's apparent that some of the bodies make it as difficult as possible in the hope that the client will go away, as most usually do.


Actually with a few incidents I have heard its more likely that our governing body will uphold a complaint irrespective of evidence given by the accountant to the contrary.

[accountancyextra]

Actually with a few incidents I have heard its more likely that our governing body will uphold a complaint irrespective of evidence given by the accountant to the contrary.


I've heard the same as you Alan. Don't know the full story, but there is a guy who posts on AWEB regularly, who seems to have lost everything and had a breakdown. The ICAEW didn't appear to be supporting him in any way (although we only have his side of the story)

[E Storey]

I've heard the same as you Alan. Don't know the full story, but there is a guy who posts on AWEB regularly, who seems to have lost everything and had a breakdown. The ICAEW didn't appear to be supporting him in any way (although we only have his side of the story)

Is this the one that was summarised in Tax advisor magazine? All sounded quite salacious!

Meh, Tax/Accounting is one of the two oldest professions in the world. If incompetent accountants have been around for 2000 years they're not likely to suddenly disappear because of ICAEW. Makes you wonder how the other oldest profession survives without a regulatory body? :eek:

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Makes you wonder how the other oldest profession survives without a regulatory body? :eek:

I thought they had a 'body' controlling them :|:|:|:|

[DFL]

Alan - Yes, heard instances of that too, which makes me question the fairness and as said in other post sometimes it's the luck of the draw as to who you get investigating (bit like HMRC :)) as to the fairness for both parties.

Stuart- You mean Albert Camus?, shocking tale, guy lost everything including his mental health from what I hear. Good to see that he has bounced back as he seems a really good guy with some great ideas. As you rightly say though, not doubting the story at all but we only have one side.

[accountancyextra]

Alan - Yes, heard instances of that too, which makes me question the fairness and as said in other post sometimes it's the luck of the draw as to who you get investigating (bit like HMRC :)) as to the fairness for both parties.

Stuart- You mean Albert Camus?, shocking tale, guy lost everything including his mental health from what I hear. Good to see that he has bounced back as he seems a really good guy with some great ideas. As you rightly say though, not doubting the story at all but we only have one side.

Yes, that was him Jason....a tragic tale