Accountant - Customer Confidentiality

[saracen]

Hi

I run a food retail outlet. There is another outlet opening up in close vicinity which are basically copying exactly what we do.
(They also have another outlet in a different town, again it's a copy of our long established business)

This other company uses the same accountant (single person operation) as we do. In fact the other company owner and some staff are best friends with the accountant. ( drinking buddies etc)

Can i ask, is there a Customer Confidentiality Code or Conduct for accountants ?

Im not saying the accountant has divulged or shown any of our accounts to this other company, however, with them all being best friends i would be very annoyed if my accountant informed them any information.

I may sound paranoid, but believe me im not. Im just protecting my interests. :D


Any advice would be greatly received.

[Williams lester]

Hi

I run a food retail outlet. There is another outlet opening up in close vicinity which are basically copying exactly what we do.
(They also have another outlet in a different town, again it's a copy of our long established business)

This other company uses the same accountant (single person operation) as we do. In fact the other company owner and some staff are best friends with the accountant. ( drinking buddies etc)

Can i ask, is there a Customer Confidentiality Code or Conduct for accountants ?

Im not saying the accountant has divulged or shown any of our accounts to this other company, however, with them all being best friends i would be very annoyed if my accountant informed them any information.

I may sound paranoid, but believe me im not. Im just protecting my interests. :D


Any advice would be greatly received.

Are you using a qualified accountant who is a member of a professional body?

[MyAccountantOnline]

Absolutely - if he/she is a professionally qualifed accountant they are subject to very stringent rules a lot of which relate to client confidentialiy.

It really is fundamental that a clients affairs are confidential.

We also have to consider what is called conflicts of interest - it might interest you to have a read of the ACCA rulebook and the section on conflicts of interest (I believe the rules are broadly similar for all Chartered bodies) http://rulebook.accaglobal.com/

If you have any concerns your accountant should be able to put your mind at rest.

[saracen]

Hi Guys

Good question, im not sure is this person is a member of a professional body. The person is a qualified accountant ( crikey i hope so) They have their own outlet on the high street and call themself an accountant.

This person has been doing my accounts for 3 years and has been really good, so far.


I've checked their web site but it's being updated so cant confirm.

You've got me thinking now.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Guys

Good question, im not sure is this person is a member of a professional body. The person is a qualified accountant ( crikey i hope so) They have their own outlet on the high street and call themself an accountant.

This person has been doing my accounts for 3 years and has been really good, so far.


I've checked their web site but it's being updated so cant confirm.

You've got me thinking now.

Not many people actually realise this but sadly anyone can call themselves an 'accountant' and many do - its a longstanding argument in our profession which will rumble on and on for years I suspect.

He/she may be good at what they do, they may not, but one things for sure using a professionally qualified accountant ensures you get certain safeguards.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Elaine a Chartered Accountant and regular and well respected poster on this forum put this on her blog a while ago - http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/?page_id=419

[saracen]

Thanks Nicola.

I always took it a this person was qualified.

If they are not qualified nor a member of a professional body and i found out they were breaching customer confidentiality. Would it be a case of they could tell this other company details with the knowledge they are not going to be repremanded ?

I do trust the accountant, (or did) but when it comes to this other company and the accountant being best mates, i just feel uneasy.

[MyAccountantOnline]

If they are not qualified nor a member of a professional body and i found out they were breaching customer confidentiality. Would it be a case of they could tell this other company details with the knowledge they are not going to be repremanded ?


I would certainly hope they would be professional, but if they arent qualified they arent subject to any professional bodies guidelines, and as such they can do what want (subject to I assume any legal action you could take?)

Our industry is very much self governing - if you arent a qualified accountant you can more or less do as you want. Its one of the reasons myself and many qualified accountants feel the public should get some protection from unqualifieds or atleast be aware of the posistion so that they can make an informed choice.

[MyAccountantOnline]

This would enable you to see if your accountant is ACCA or ICAEW qualified. These are the two main Chartered bodies for accountants in practice but not the only ones -

https://www.acca-business.org/dom/

http://www.icaewfirms.co.uk/

Some accountants are AAT qualified (they also have stringent professional guidelines) and are well respected -

http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item12874/#how_do_I_use_the_AAT_Directory_of_MIP?

[saracen]

Hi Nicola

The person started their accountancy life working in the tax office with HMRC after college. So that would confirm the person is qualified ( i believe)

I'll need to look into this further. I know i should have done this from the outset but when i started my business i was recommended this person as an accountant, so i thought, that will do me, especially as they were a stones throw from my business.

I've been digging about on the internet to see if they are a member of a professional body, also phoned another business person who uses the same accountant ( he doesnt know either) but as their website in being upgraded, all i can do is email the accountant and ask. Only thing is that would rouse suspicion as to why im asking now.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Nicola

The person started their accountancy life working in the tax office with HMRC after college. So that would confirm the person is qualified ( i believe)


Sadly not!

We were probably typing at the same time - my last post will help a little hopefully.

I must stress they may be very good at what they do I'm truly not putting into question their ability BUT you dont get the safeguards using any Tom, Dick or Harry who calls themselves an 'accountant' as you do with a professionally qualified accountant. You just need to be aware of that.:)

[saracen]

Thanks Nicola

Yeah must have been typing at same time at my last post.

I feel concerned now that the person isn't qualified after all. I've been very happy with their standard of work until now as i have this awful gut feeling they will "help" their best friends with information courtesy of me.

Maybe i am going paranoid :p


EDIT - i've checked the links you posted and i cannot find my accountant on them :-O

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thanks Nicola

Yeah must have been typing at same time at my last post.

I feel concerned now that the person isn't qualified after all. I've been very happy with their standard of work until now as i have this awful gut feeling they will "help" their best friends with information courtesy of me.

Maybe i am going paranoid :p


EDIT - i've checked the links you posted and i cannot find my accountant on them :-O


Its over to you on that one now - but good luck with it all:)

[saracen]

Nicola, Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. :D

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Have you got an engagement letter with them - that should set out the agreement between the 2 of you including keeping your info confidential.

[saracen]

Have you got an engagement letter with them - that should set out the agreement between the 2 of you including keeping your info confidential.


Hi Elaine

Never got a letter. When i went to this accountant it was all done verbally. As it was that long ago i cant recall what, if anything, was agreed in regards to confidentiality.

Im really kicking myself. Being such a newbie back then i just though that someone calling them self an accountant would qualified. Until now i still would have.

[maxine]

Saracen

Your situation is not too different from a lot of peoples in terms of how people tend to get their first accountant (recommendation/location/convenience) and we did a small survey fairly recently that showed around 70% of small businesses don't have the first clue what qualifications their accountant has (if any) which was one of the reasons for me setting up my find-me-an-accountant.com (http://www.find-me-an-accountant.com) service and for supporting Elaine's petition.

But one thing I would say is that accountants do talk with each other and with their clients. Even if they don't mention your name conversations can go along the lines of "have you thought about xyz for reducing your costs / increasing your price /whatever" or "I had a client in such and such industry who did so and so" and this is general conversation in the spirit of business advice. It may not be meant in the context of breaching confidentiality but more around sharing tips and advice, so I suppose it depends on how careful you need to be with your business information.

If you would like me to make a call to your accountants on your behalf then just pm me :)

Good luck

[saracen]

Maxine, thanks for your post. I agree that accountants will share tips, im just concerned how much would be shared favouring their best friend.



If an accountant is not qualified, i've just worked out i get charged £1650 per year.

£150 x 4 for payroll, paye, nic etc
£180 x 4 for VAT

1x £330 for year end accounts, submitting them etc,

Is this a reasonable price for doing all accountancy work ?

[maxine]

Sorry to be vague but it depends on location, turnover, transactions, bookkeeping methods, number of employees, payroll frequency etc

Maybe have a look at elaine's prices on her site and compare payroll with firefly payroll and see how it compares

Happy to help you shop around. Year end prices seem low if that also includes tax planning and advice

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Have a read of the sticky on how to find an accountant (top of accounts forum) and my blog on how to get the most from your accountant here:

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/?p=573

oh and another one -
Keep us accountants on our toes – make sure you know just how easy it is to change to a new one!


http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/?p=780

Enjoy!

[Tom Egerton]

I don't know if you're being paranoid but you seem happy with the service and cost or you would have changed accountants by now. Please don't be bamboozled by members of recognised professional bodies (RPBs) who believe that they and they only have the right to be called qualified.

There are many accountants who are qualified by experience and an increasing number that are qualified by examination but have chosen not to continue their RPB membership. Members of RPBs do have a code of ethics and their behaviour can be challenged but in 22 years of practice I've yet to see a case of what you are fearing.

I don't believe what you are doing is rocket science and therefore any damage you might hypothetically suffer is debatable.

[florenceij]

Wow this post has got me thinking was keen on submitting business plan to an accounting firm for review and to help with finalizing to a good standard. Now I am back to ground zero, who do I trust.

Saracen might be worth asking the accountant I don't think you will lose anything by asking.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Wow this post has got me thinking was keen on submitting business plan to an accounting firm for review and to help with finalizing to a good standard. Now I am back to ground zero, who do I trust.

Saracen might be worth asking the accountant I don't think you will lose anything by asking.

Their are many factors to consider when choosing an accountant.

One of which has emerged from this post being whether to use a professionally qualified accountant, or someone who trades as an accountant.

As I mentioned the arguments for and against will run on for years until, or if, our Government give some legal protection to the term 'accountant'.

I know if I am paying any professional I like to know that they are qualified to do the job and by that, to me, that means they have shown their ability to pass and obtain professional qualifications, that is my personal view.

This might be useful -

http://www.accaglobal.com/general/finding/

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073963622

[kulture]

At the end of the day, it is a matter of trust. Not what exams he may have passed, nor what body he belongs to. If your accountant has always done a good job, and has always posted your accounts on time etc. then it is a good reason to keep him.

If you don't trust him, or think he may let slip commercially confidential information, then get a new one.

You should always be able to trust your accountant. Also, what commercially confidential information is there that would actually hurt you with your competitor? Are you planning to expand? Have you found a great new suppler? Have you managed to negotiate good discounts??? Do you actually have any secrets that would matter?

[MyAccountantOnline]

At the end of the day, it is a matter of trust.......
If you don't trust him, or think he may let slip commercially confidential information, then get a new one.

You should always be able to trust your accountant.


I dont disagree with that at all:)

The point I was making is that if you use a professionally qualified accountant, as opposed to someone who chooses to trade as an accountant you get (amongst other things) a reassurance that they will behave in a certain manner, and can take action if they dont.

[Whitefields]

To me this is a simple conflict of interests . If he is doing the books for a similar/rival business then I wouldn't keep him .You are obviously uncomfortable with that and that's all that it matters at the end of the day .Not his qualifications etc . Despite of any confidentiality agreements you will never know whether he is giving tips to the other business or not and you will continue to torment yourself over it .
BTW , his qualifications should be mentioned on his website i.e Chartered Accountant , ACCA etc .

[mr. mischief]

Have you raised this issue with him? If you raised it with me - and for example I am the accountant of two rival taxi firms operating within half a mile of each other! - I would say:

1. That your contract (letter of engagement) with me confirms I have an obligation to keep your information confidential.

2. That I take this very seriously and in no way would I pass information or hints to Cabbie A which came from my work with Cabbie B.

In my view - as a qualified Chartered Accountant - the qualified / non-qualified thing is a real blind. I've won lots of work off qualifieds, they then hand over their workings to you and let me tell you some of that stuff has been far from impressive. Some has been excellent so I've got a good idea who the best competitors are!

A non-qualified died near here in April and about 20 of her clients have come to me. In my view her work was of a consistently high standard and some of the qualifieds could learn a thing or two from her - not that I'm going to give them any hints!

So in your position I would talk this through with your accountant, and if I was not convinced by the answers the decision is clear. But if he convinces you of the importance of confidentiality this should be pretty reassuring.

[sirearl]

Hi

I run a food retail outlet. There is another outlet opening up in close vicinity which are basically copying exactly what we do.
(They also have another outlet in a different town, again it's a copy of our long established business)

This other company uses the same accountant (single person operation) as we do. In fact the other company owner and some staff are best friends with the accountant. ( drinking buddies etc)

Can i ask, is there a Customer Confidentiality Code or Conduct for accountants ?

Im not saying the accountant has divulged or shown any of our accounts to this other company, however, with them all being best friends i would be very annoyed if my accountant informed them any information.

I may sound paranoid, but believe me im not. Im just protecting my interests. :D


Any advice would be greatly received.

Well I would suggest getting a new accountant ,Its my experience that codes of conduct ,client confidentiality tend to go out the window around the fourth pint.

Human nature tends to win over most things.;)

I suspect part of the reason they started a business in direct competition with you was due to information gleaned from various sources.

Earl

[DuaneJackson]

Human nature tends to win over most things.;)


That was my first thought upon reading this thread

[mr. mischief]

client confidentiality tend to go out the window around the fourth pint

If that is truly the case the person concerned should stop at the third pint! I have several electrician clients, one of whom is a regular drinking partner. There is absolutely no way I'd ever discuss anything with him which came from doing the other clients' accounts. Plus after the fourth pint there is no way we'll be talking business anyway! (Some would say after the 4th pint we'll just be talking bollox!)

[Vikas]

To me this is a simple conflict of interests . If he is doing the books for a similar/rival business then I wouldn't keep him .You are obviously uncomfortable with that and that's all that it matters at the end of the day .Not his qualifications etc . Despite of any confidentiality agreements you will never know whether he is giving tips to the other business or not and you will continue to torment yourself over it .
BTW , his qualifications should be mentioned on his website i.e Chartered Accountant , ACCA etc .

I have to disagree. If having more than one client of any specific business type gave a firm an insurmountable conflict if interest threat then there would be no such thing as 'specialist' firms.

There are many firms all over the country that have a virtual monopoly or oligopoly alongside a handful of other firms over clients from a certain business sector. Does this mean that all these company's know everything about their rivals because of their accountants? From past experience I would highly doubt that.

I really think that some of the views in this thread were OTT considering that the only thing we really know so far aout this accountant is that he has done a good job for the OP so far.

At the end of the day this is his livelihood and I wouldn't just go with the assumption that he will side with one client over the other. It is in his interest that the OP does well otherwise he will lose fees!

And anyway if your rivals want information about you they can get this from many places, e.g. ex employees etc.