shellybelly
30th August 2010, 20:40
We took over a closed down pub in Powys in 2007,totally revamped it and ran it until April 2009. It was a small town and our accountant came recommended by one of our customers as apparently he was known to other traders as pubs were a speciality of his. I found him a very overbearing man and because I was relatively new to the ways of HMRC and VAT etc,I didnt argue when his bill came in.He had done the accounts from 1st Dec 2007 to 25th April 2009 and he said that the bill should be 1600.00p plus vat but as we had recommended my husbands father to him as his accountant,then he would reduce the bill to 1400.00p plus the vat which cam to 1696.94 with credit charges as we couldnt afford to pay it.
We had never really been given a sum to work to as when asked how much the end of year bill would be he would just mumble something like "about a thousand something". We had initially been given a figure of around 850-950 plus vat with a small bill thrown in for advice-quote.Anyway,we paid the bill and have now moved pubs to the Midlands area,with him still as our accountant as he said it didnt really matter where we lived as it was only possibly twice a year that we would need to see him.As I had only seen him twice at our other pub in 18 months and he lived just up the road,I thought this would be ok.
I had also managed to gain quite a lot of knowledge over the last year,of tax,vat and managing our business,by reading up on the Gov.org site on the internet and various other sites,and I must say I keep very good records and my books are immaculate - even he said how good they were and how much I had learned in a year,leaving him less to do.
We moved pubs and did exactly the same as we had done with our previous pub-taken over a closed pub and totally revamped it. He came to see us and was overjoyed by the fact that he had found out a valuable piece of information which was going to help us considerably!! he said. He now knew that as we hadnt taken over a "going concern" as the new pub was closed when we took it over,that we didnt have to register or pay vat until we had reached the vat threshold of 70,000.!! Oh joy.He said that his "accountant Guru" had informed him about this and he had just done this for another client of his and saved him several thousand pounds worth of vat.
I asked him why we had not been told this at the onset of our other pub and he dismissed this by saying WE hadnt told him it was empty when we took it over and should have! "But I thought you had only just found out about this marvellous information from your Guru"said I,and he dismissed it again,but I kept on about it and he kept dismissing it.Later on he sent me a letter saying that he could not be held liable for any vat we had paid unnecessarily and it was not his fault and he was now trying to reclaim our start up costs which amounted to 900.00 for the other pub.I had initially given him itemised receipts for the start up costs but again he had dismissed them and said we couldnt claim them back as we were on flat rate vat.Very confusing man!
Then came the letter upon all letters-a bill for 752.00p for costs relating to HIS vat strategy which had saved us several thousand pounds in vat.In my eyes he had COST us several thousand pounds in vat through not finding out about the vat strategy sooner.I had told him this plus the fact that information regarding this is on the Gov.Org site and I should have read it sooner and saved MYSELF several thousand pounds.
I must digress a little now.In between all this we have set up another business and at his suggestion, formed a ltd company,of course him setting it all up for us and using his addresss as our company office.I did not know that we did not have to do this at the time as I hadnt read up on the jargon on Ltd companies by then and as I said he is an overbearing loud man who talks over you anyway,so before I knew it,he`d done everything.
As I said I have had a year or more to read up on various aspects of business and accountancy and so I challenged him about the recent bill,the vat we had paid unnecessarily and that I wanted a breakdown/timesheet of all the work he had done so far and how he got it to that amount.I also mentioned that I was thinking of changing accountants to one nearer home.I had already searched and had an informal interview with another accountant who couldnt be more different and obliging than him.On one occasion he had been so blunt with me on the phone,he had reduced me to tears.
Anyway,the outcome of all this and the reason that I could do with some serious advice is that now he knows that I am changing accountants (I have sent him a letter) he has billed me yet again 211.50p for services rendered in connection with our old pub.The letter sent this time says for TAKING instruction to reclaim vat,not as it did before,GIVING instruction, but he is willing to waiver this if I settle in full the 752.00 by Sept12th 2010.
He also says that he will not release the information he now holds on our new business from Companies House ie electronic filing and MY certificate of incorporation of a ltd company(he sent me photocopies) or anything else,to my new accountant,unless I pay this bill.
If I have not paid by Sept 12th then he is seeking to recover through the County Courts with interest and costs.
He also adds that he has not charged for any time spent on our new business,which he says he is entitled.
We only started the business on the 6th August,and all he has done to date is send off to companies house on my behalf.
Please give me some advice,thank you
We had never really been given a sum to work to as when asked how much the end of year bill would be he would just mumble something like "about a thousand something". We had initially been given a figure of around 850-950 plus vat with a small bill thrown in for advice-quote.Anyway,we paid the bill and have now moved pubs to the Midlands area,with him still as our accountant as he said it didnt really matter where we lived as it was only possibly twice a year that we would need to see him.As I had only seen him twice at our other pub in 18 months and he lived just up the road,I thought this would be ok.
I had also managed to gain quite a lot of knowledge over the last year,of tax,vat and managing our business,by reading up on the Gov.org site on the internet and various other sites,and I must say I keep very good records and my books are immaculate - even he said how good they were and how much I had learned in a year,leaving him less to do.
We moved pubs and did exactly the same as we had done with our previous pub-taken over a closed pub and totally revamped it. He came to see us and was overjoyed by the fact that he had found out a valuable piece of information which was going to help us considerably!! he said. He now knew that as we hadnt taken over a "going concern" as the new pub was closed when we took it over,that we didnt have to register or pay vat until we had reached the vat threshold of 70,000.!! Oh joy.He said that his "accountant Guru" had informed him about this and he had just done this for another client of his and saved him several thousand pounds worth of vat.
I asked him why we had not been told this at the onset of our other pub and he dismissed this by saying WE hadnt told him it was empty when we took it over and should have! "But I thought you had only just found out about this marvellous information from your Guru"said I,and he dismissed it again,but I kept on about it and he kept dismissing it.Later on he sent me a letter saying that he could not be held liable for any vat we had paid unnecessarily and it was not his fault and he was now trying to reclaim our start up costs which amounted to 900.00 for the other pub.I had initially given him itemised receipts for the start up costs but again he had dismissed them and said we couldnt claim them back as we were on flat rate vat.Very confusing man!
Then came the letter upon all letters-a bill for 752.00p for costs relating to HIS vat strategy which had saved us several thousand pounds in vat.In my eyes he had COST us several thousand pounds in vat through not finding out about the vat strategy sooner.I had told him this plus the fact that information regarding this is on the Gov.Org site and I should have read it sooner and saved MYSELF several thousand pounds.
I must digress a little now.In between all this we have set up another business and at his suggestion, formed a ltd company,of course him setting it all up for us and using his addresss as our company office.I did not know that we did not have to do this at the time as I hadnt read up on the jargon on Ltd companies by then and as I said he is an overbearing loud man who talks over you anyway,so before I knew it,he`d done everything.
As I said I have had a year or more to read up on various aspects of business and accountancy and so I challenged him about the recent bill,the vat we had paid unnecessarily and that I wanted a breakdown/timesheet of all the work he had done so far and how he got it to that amount.I also mentioned that I was thinking of changing accountants to one nearer home.I had already searched and had an informal interview with another accountant who couldnt be more different and obliging than him.On one occasion he had been so blunt with me on the phone,he had reduced me to tears.
Anyway,the outcome of all this and the reason that I could do with some serious advice is that now he knows that I am changing accountants (I have sent him a letter) he has billed me yet again 211.50p for services rendered in connection with our old pub.The letter sent this time says for TAKING instruction to reclaim vat,not as it did before,GIVING instruction, but he is willing to waiver this if I settle in full the 752.00 by Sept12th 2010.
He also says that he will not release the information he now holds on our new business from Companies House ie electronic filing and MY certificate of incorporation of a ltd company(he sent me photocopies) or anything else,to my new accountant,unless I pay this bill.
If I have not paid by Sept 12th then he is seeking to recover through the County Courts with interest and costs.
He also adds that he has not charged for any time spent on our new business,which he says he is entitled.
We only started the business on the 6th August,and all he has done to date is send off to companies house on my behalf.
Please give me some advice,thank you