SEO help

[preciousbags]

Hi all, i wanted some advice on google ranking

One keyword that stumbles me is "evening bags"

I dont seem to be in the top 100 for this and this is one area i want to get on the first page eventually.

I have been link building, adding content, using H1 headers etc and seem to be doing ok for other keywords but evening bags being my main one does not seem to be improving.

Am i doing something wrong or do i just have to wait and keep doing what i am doing? For a keyword like this, how long do i have to wait approx to get on the first page.

I have seen a competitors site which only had their domain registered a few months ago, coming up on the 3rd page for that keyword.

Hope that makes sense

Thanks

[OldWelshGuy]

Are you link building with the anchor text of evening bags?

[preciousbags]

I sure am. Still cannot figure it out

[OldWelshGuy]

are you varuying the anchor text? are you building deep links with different phrases including 'evening bag' e.g. silver evening bag (linking to a silver evening bag page) gold evenin bag silver night time bag (night and evening being semantically linked so one boosts the other).

What % of backlinks are deep links? What % are using the same anchor text?

All of these will affect how you rank for that phrase

[preciousbags]

For example i created 20 backlinks over a certain period

8 of those have the anchor text - evening bags (most to the homepage though)

The rest have silver evening bags, black evening bags, gold evening bags as anchor text and are deep linked to specific product pages etc.

Is this the right way to do things?

Thanks

[OldWelshGuy]

Yep, and what does your internal linking do?

[preciousbags]

When you mean internal linking? Is that links on my own site? To be honest, i dont have many. The ones i do have just link to other pages on the site.

[Ali-v-8]

You hit the nail on the head.


Yep, and what does your internal linking do?

[preciousbags]

Ok so i need to work on my internal linking? How many internal links should i have?

[OldWelshGuy]

Diagnosing potential contributory elements for ranking withoutbeing able to view a site is like getting a haircut over the phone.

note that we can't view the site as that would turn it into a site review and this is not allowed outside of the site review area.

Internal linking is a massive part of SEO.

[preciousbags]

Ok thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

[awebapart.com]

One keyword that stumbles me is "evening bags"

I dont seem to be in the top 100 for this and this is one area i want to get on the first page eventually.
Is this the first more popular more competitive term that you are targeting and having difficulty with? Unfortunately just because you might be able to rank for less competitive and less popular terms, doesn't mean that you can do the same for more competitive and more popular terms. It's usually a different ball game, there's a lot more you have to do, and there might even be parts of google's algorithm which are preventing your site from ranking for more competitive terms, such as the google sandbox (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=713380) which can kick in for new sites targeting competitive terms.

How old is your site?

I have seen a competitors site which only had their domain registered a few months ago, coming up on the 3rd page for that keyword.
Are you sure about that? I've just checked the sites on page 3 and they are all fairly established older sites. Even if there was a fairly new site at page 3, there might be other factors at play which allow it to bypass the google sandbox, e.g. perhaps it is a rebranded site with a new domain and the owner has 301 permanently redirected the old established domain to the new site.

[preciousbags]

My site has been around since March. Not that long to be honest.

If i keep doing what i am doing and do some internal linking. Hopefully that might change things in the long run.

How do i know if i am in the google sandbox?

[OldWelshGuy]

you won't rank

[preciousbags]

Ah ok. That means for that term ive been sandboxed. Great!

Is the Sandbox just a waiting game for google to start showing my site one day in the future?

Or can something be done to get out of the sandbox?

[awebapart.com]

How do i know if i am in the google sandbox?
You cannot know for sure, but if you have a relatively new site (less than around 10 months old), and you are ranking for less competitive terms but you are not ranking for more competitive terms (even though you think your site should rank compared to other sites that are ranking), then there is a good chance that the google sandbox is kicking in.

This google sandbox article (http://www.webconfs.com/google-sandbox-article-11.php) describes what is happening in more detail.

[preciousbags]

Thanks for the link. Just had a read of it. Well am pleased to know the reason as to why i am not ranking for that keyword lol.

Thanks all

[paretowasright]

note that we can't view the site as that would turn it into a site review and this is not allowed outside of the site review area.

Internal linking is a massive part of SEO.

There would be handbags at dawn if this turned into a site review ;)
And I want a mullet haircut please OWG...

[Sorensenp]

have you already done link building for your site?

[Ali-v-8]

You aren't in a sand box
Ah ok. That means for that term ive been sandboxed. Great!

Is the Sandbox just a waiting game for google to start showing my site one day in the future?

Or can something be done to get out of the sandbox?

[preciousbags]

Aint i?

Now i am seriously confused?

lol

[Ali-v-8]

Your website is well cached and indexed, just not ranked.

Aint i?

Now i am seriously confused?

lol

[MASSEY]

I hope that 6 months sandbox rule is true, because i should be beating other sites at the minute. only another 3 months to go :-) and i can see for myself.

[Ali-v-8]

The sandbox rule is no longer an issue with good links.
I got a brand new website launched on friday to page one on monday.
Thats 4 days including the friday.


I hope that 6 months sandbox rule is true, because i should be beating other sites at the minute. only another 3 months to go :-) and i can see for myself.

[paretowasright]

Hi all, i wanted some advice on google ranking

One keyword that stumbles me is "evening bags"

I dont seem to be in the top 100 for this and this is one area i want to get on the first page eventually.

I have been link building, adding content, using H1 headers etc and seem to be doing ok for other keywords but evening bags being my main one does not seem to be improving.

Am i doing something wrong or do i just have to wait and keep doing what i am doing? For a keyword like this, how long do i have to wait approx to get on the first page.

I have seen a competitors site which only had their domain registered a few months ago, coming up on the 3rd page for that keyword.

Hope that makes sense

Thanks

I had a quick look at that term and google results 1-8 are established sites with PR2-6. I think you need to look at the quality and relevance of the links you are building but the sandbox rule does of course also apply for anywhere between 3-6 months unless you have Ali's magic ;)

[Faevilangel]

I had a quick look at that term and google results 1-8 are established sites with PR2-6. I think you need to look at the quality and relevance of the links you are building but the sandbox rule does of course also apply for anywhere between 3-6 months unless you have Ali's magic ;)

Magic? He owns Google (in theory) as he is best mates with Sergey :D

Seriously though, I had a site uploaded and on page one within a week. It's all down to your links, the content of the site and the keywords you're targetting.
Getting the site structure and internal linking right from the start is the best advice I can give, take your time building the site, don't rush it and make sure it ready to be launched. A rushed job will not earn you the brownie points.

[paretowasright]

Magic? He owns Google (in theory) as he is best mates with Sergey :D

Seriously though, I had a site uploaded and on page one within a week. It's all down to your links, the content of the site and the keywords you're targetting.
Getting the site structure and internal linking right from the start is the best advice I can give, take your time building the site, don't rush it and make sure it ready to be launched. A rushed job will not earn you the brownie points.

If the keywords have very low page and title competition I can see why that may happen (or the keywords are in the domain name) but google does have a habit of quickly ranking new sites for a couple of weeks and then dropping them down the rankings. I am happy to be proved wrong but that is my experience to date.

[Faevilangel]

If the keywords have very low page and title competition I can see why that may happen (or the keywords are in the domain name) but google does have a habit of quickly ranking new sites for a couple of weeks and then dropping them down the rankings. I am happy to be proved wrong but that is my experience to date.

My site is still there a month on so not happened yet. It really will depend on how they got there, it can take a while for Google to notice a site got to the top using unconventional methods, and to kick them down a peg or two.

The site I did has the keywords in the domain name so went straight to the first page near instantly.

Imho if you build the site strong from the start and keep it updated, then it won't drop much unless your competitors start improving their site.

[RedEvo]

I'd quit building links from splogs.

d

[paretowasright]

My site is still there a month on so not happened yet. It really will depend on how they got there, it can take a while for Google to notice a site got to the top using unconventional methods, and to kick them down a peg or two.

The site I did has the keywords in the domain name so went straight to the first page near instantly.

Imho if you build the site strong from the start and keep it updated, then it won't drop much unless your competitors start improving their site.

Yes that's when I have seen it happen (keywords in domain) or very low page and title competition for the keyword. Totally agree about strong site etc.

[paretowasright]

I'd quit building links from splogs.

d

RedEvo...do you have some intelligence that Google are going to reverse their Caffeine update and increased focus on social media etc then?

[RedEvo]

RedEvo...do you have some intelligence that Google are going to reverse their Caffeine update and increased focus on social media etc then?

WTF has that got to do with my post?

d

[paretowasright]

WTF has that got to do with my post?

d

I was going on the comment about quitting building links from blogs.....the WTF was a bit unnecessary though as it was a genuine question.

[preciousbags]

Sorry am a bit lost with this thread now lol. Some good points have been raised.

So far is my link building been poor then? Its hard to find page rank 4, 5 and 6 sites to get backlinks from. I will just have to look harder lol

[MASSEY]

Its about the amount, you currently have mostly internal links, the links you do have are mostly blog comments.


You need to come at it from a different angle seen as you are in a competitive area.

Study the backlinks of the other sites that rank well for what you also want to perform well for.

Use this (https://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7zcjg1BMgSYAFJPbl8kF?p=&y=Explore+URL&fr=sfp)to study their backlinks and get a better idea about what you need.

[preciousbags]

And having internal links, is it a good thing? You mean links on my own site linking to my own site?

Is it wise to see where they get their links from and start creating links that way?

And how should i wary my link building?

Am i right in thinking article sites?

My brain is dying out today lol.

[MASSEY]

And having internal links, is it a good thing? You mean links on my own site linking to my own site?

Is it wise to see where they get their links from and start creating links that way?

And how should i wary my link building?

Am i right in thinking article sites?

My brain is dying out today lol.

You ask all the questions i used to ask about 4 months ago, but im a quick learner ;)

The links from pages on your own site do help but they are not enough on their own.

The articles links can help in relativly easy - medium areas of seo but again they are not great.

Ideally you want to do a few link exchanges with other bag sites or people selling diferent types of bags to you, you have to think outside the box.

And possibly buy a bulk load of links , people often say "they are not relevant" blah blah but it seems to me "crap is king" which is another phrase i see plastered all over the net.

[RedEvo]

I was going on the comment about quitting building links from blogs.....the WTF was a bit unnecessary though as it was a genuine question.

You are right, it was unnecessary, I apologise. My comment referred to splogs not blogs.

d

[paretowasright]

No problem it was very clearly a misunderstanding about blog vs splog.
When you consider something like 60% of communication is non verbal its hardly surprising things can easily go pear shaped on a forum ;)

[OldWelshGuy]

No problem it was very clearly a misunderstanding about blog vs splog.
When you consider something like 60% of communication is non verbal its hardly surprising things can easily go pear shaped on a forum ;)


WTF is wrong with you? WHY are you having a go at innocent fruit ?????????


:D

[paretowasright]

The innocent fruit was looking at me in a funny way in a built up area M'Lord ;)

[awebapart.com]

The sandbox rule is no longer an issue with good links.
I got a brand new website launched on friday to page one on monday.
Thats 4 days including the friday.
Seriously though, I had a site uploaded and on page one within a week. It's all down to your links, the content of the site and the keywords you're targetting.
Could you both please qualify your statements by saying how popular and how competitive was the term you were targeting?

How popular, as in what is the monthly local exact match search stats reported by google adwords. How competitive, as in what number of pages are returned when you run an intitle search, e.g. intitle:"evening bags"

The reason I'm asking these questions is that from my experience the google sandbox for new domains only kicks in, at google's discretion, for certain terms that are either highly popular, highly competitive, or both.

The only good links that I know of that might get around this issue are 301 or 302 permanently redirected or temporarily redirected site links, which kind of remove the newness of the domain because you are merely telling google that an old domain has changed names, so the site itself isn't really new. (I can also understand how very good normal links might help get a new site out of the google sandbox quicker and permanently - permanently as in no initial temporary google hiccup of ranking a new site well - but not that quick.)

[Ali-v-8]

1st Sergey aint a bad person to know ;) :p:D

Ok time for a rephrase me thinks.
Sandbox definition is been thrown around for a while and i think OWG, tin, earl, and a few others on this forum tackled the misconception a while back.

IMO "sandbox" is the time your website spends not being discovered by google spider. Unscrupulous marketing companies always use this excuse to delay 6 months or so.
Any SEO worth his salt can get a website cached in 1 or two week max.
The website may not rank high on competitive terms but it will be listed non the less.
awebapart: term is irrelevant as the op thought that they were still in a sandbox, yet there website has many pages listed.

[awebapart.com]

IMO "sandbox" is the time your website spends not being discovered by google spider. Unscrupulous marketing companies always use this excuse to delay 6 months or so.
Any SEO worth his salt can get a website cached in 1 or two week max.
The website may not rank high on competitive terms but it will be listed non the less.
awebapart: term is irrelevant as the op thought that they were still in a sandbox, yet there website has many pages listed.
I think we are using the phrase "google sandbox" to describe two very different situations...

I am describing google sandbox, as in this article (http://www.webconfs.com/google-sandbox-article-11.php), as a downranking factor google applies to new websites for popular competitive terms, even though the site might be completely indexed by google.

You are describing google sandbox as the period a new website spends before being spidered or indexed by google.

[Faevilangel]

Could you both please qualify your statements by saying how popular and how competitive was the term you were targeting?

The keywords are low target and not local based, it's for a health product. The global searches is just over 4k (according to the adwords tool).

[Ali-v-8]

Local search volume 27,100 global volume 450,000 per month june

position 5 on google within 5 days.
It is the exact 6 term the client wanted.
he was so happy he requested another website with is now sitting nicely below the first one for the same phrase which took 7 days. :D

[Mr Niche]

Hi Precious Bags

What is your web address so that we can have a look?

Regards

Mr Niche

[awebapart.com]

The keywords are low target and not local based, it's for a health product. The global searches is just over 4k (according to the adwords tool).
Is it for the site in the right hand link in your signature? Adwords exact match is showing 4400 broad match global, but for exact match local it is showing nothing, so I would not class that as a popular search term (at least not in the UK)

[Faevilangel]

Is it for the site in the right hand link in your signature? Adwords exact match is showing 4400 broad match global, but for exact match local it is showing nothing, so I would not class that as a popular search term (at least not in the UK)

yup, I would say most of his custom is from America so not such a big term in the UK.

[awebapart.com]

Local search volume 27,100 global volume 450,000 per month june

position 5 on google within 5 days.
It is the exact 6 term the client wanted.
he was so happy he requested another website with is now sitting nicely below the first one for the same phrase which took 7 days. :D
Are you saying that the search term that was targeted was a 6 word term?

Did that 6 word term have those local and global adwords search volumes for exact match as opposed to broad match?

What was the competitiveness of that term, i.e. how many pages are returned when you run the google search:

intitle:"the search term in question"

[Ali-v-8]

Sorry meant 6 terms the guy requested
2 word phrases
About 4,790,000 results
About 52,900 results (0.31 seconds) allintitle
local 5,400 globals 60,500 exact match

Not that this matters because these are in the organic.
traffic volume is a lot higher than ppc listed by google.


Are you saying that the search term that was targeted was a 6 word term?

Did that 6 word term have those local and global adwords search volumes for exact match as opposed to broad match?

What was the competitiveness of that term, i.e. how many pages are returned when you run the google search:

intitle:"the search term in question"

[Ali-v-8]

Just so we dont get side tracked from the point i made, the original point was the poster was not on page one for evening bags.
They thought it was because they are in a sand box.
Would you say there website is sandboxed or not?
I stand by my diagnosis. No they are not.

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi Precious Bags

What is your web address so that we can have a look?

Regards

Mr Niche


Guys, a gentle reminder that site reviews are not allowed outside of the site review area. Don't poil a good thread by getting it pulled :)

[awebapart.com]

About 52,900 results (0.31 seconds) allintitle
Thanks. Just to confirm is that the results with the 2 word term in quotes?

Since:

intitle:evening bags

is a very different search term to:

intitle:"evening bags"

The second version is the better method for this type of search.

Just so we dont get side tracked from the point i made, the original point was the poster was not on page one for evening bags.
They thought it was because they are in a sand box.
Would you say there website is sandboxed or not?
I stand by my diagnosis. No they are not.
They are not sandboxed according to your definition of the google sandbox, i.e. simply not being indexed.

According to my definition of the google sandbox, i.e. the downranking that google might apply to new websites for popular competitive terms, I'm saying that they could be facing this particular issue.

[Ali-v-8]

I see what you are saying, but they have not achieved a result for that term and then dropped. I don't think they have found themselves ranked on that term at all. (op can you confirm)
If you look at the titles and then look at the way he has done descriptions and then the links internally you will see the issue.


According to my definition of the google sandbox, i.e. the downranking that google might apply to new websites for popular competitive terms, I'm saying that they could be facing this particular issue.

[preciousbags]

Once i had a product page in evening bags but it was like on the 14th page. That is the only time ive seen myself under the term evening bags.

Hope that helps

[Ali-v-8]

Yeah i found it for purple evening bags. which for the full description you are on page one for :)

[awebapart.com]

I see what you are saying, but they have not achieved a result for that term and then dropped. I don't think they have found themselves ranked on that term at all. (op can you confirm)
The downranking I'm talking about, according to my interpretation of google sandbox, is a day 1 downranking, i.e. some negative weighting in the google algorithm that automatically kicks in right from the start for new domains for competitive popular terms.

It is not downranking as in they give you a high place in the rankings then they take it away later on, that is usually a separate issue.

[Ali-v-8]

I call that baiting (its an ALI term).
I used to believe (and still do) that google placed a new website on to page one to give it an opportunity to be discovered. If the website gained clicks with a low bounce rate it would remain. Other wise it would drop.
Its is a theory that I based on a few websites that did really well from launch.
Mostly websites that advertised from launch.
Googles ranking has more than one thing taken into consideration


The downranking I'm talking about, according to my interpretation of google sandbox, is a day 1 downranking, i.e. some negative weighting in the google algorithm that automatically kicks in right from the start for new domains for competitive popular terms.

It is not downranking as in they give you a high place in the rankings then they take it away later on, that is usually a separate issue.

[OldWelshGuy]

When over a beer I asked a well placed google employee about the 'instant ranking' phenomenon, I was simply told ' a site can sneak past the sub algorithms when it is initially picked up, but within a couple of days once it propagates, this is rectified.

[awebapart.com]

I call that baiting (its an ALI term).
I used to believe (and still do) that google placed a new website on to page one to give it an opportunity to be discovered. If the website gained clicks with a low bounce rate it would remain. Other wise it would drop.
An interesting theory, or it could also simply be a google glitch, a google dance, a result of google selectively testing different algorithms, a result of the google algorithm being muti-pass with some of the other passes and parts of the algorithm not kicking immediately, a knock-on effect of data cente synchronisation catch-up etc.

Personally, I've not seen any brand new domains go straight to page 1 for popular competitive terms.
About 52,900 results (0.31 seconds) allintitle
Was that result based on a quoted search? e.g. intitle:"evening bags" rather than a non-quoted search, e.g. intitle:evening bags

[OldWelshGuy]

Webby, I think we cross posted ;)

[Leadz]

The term you are trying to compete for will take at least 12 to 18 months if not more to rank for if you do all the right things.

"evening bags" have competing pages of 717,000 on Google

to Rank and beat the competition you need

1. An aged domain
2. High quality relevant back links
3. high activity on your website.

If you have done the seo work for only a few months, I will suggest you give it some time or look for another long tail keyword related to to "evening bags" to target.

Eventually if you wait you will reap the fruit of your labour.

[Ali-v-8]

Sorry not "evening bags" another term
It seems to me that we cannot prove either point.
But I still have websites that are brand new that not only went to page one but remained there too.
May be they slipped the google net?




Was that result based on a quoted search? e.g. intitle:"evening bags" rather than a non-quoted search, e.g. intitle:evening bags

[awebapart.com]

Sorry not "evening bags" another term
I know it is not evening bags, it is the particular term you are targeting. I'm merely asking you whether your intitle results were quoted, e.g. intitle:"your term" or unquoted, e.g. intitle:your term

I'm interested in the quoted intitle results, e.g. intitle:"your term"

because then we can compare, on a more even ground, how competitive the term is compared with the OP's evening bags term.

[Ali-v-8]

sorry no ""

I know it is not evening bags, it is the particular term you are targeting. I'm merely asking you whether your intitle results were quoted, e.g. intitle:"your term" or unquoted, e.g. intitle:your term

I'm interested in the quoted intitle results, e.g. intitle:"your term"

because then we can compare, on a more even ground, how competitive the term is compared with the OP's evening bags term.

[awebapart.com]

sorry no ""
So what is the number when you use quotes? e.g.

intitle:"your term"

BTW, if you do an intitle search with no quotes, e.g.

intitle:evening bags

then you are not running an intitle search across both words, you are just running it across the word immediately after intitle:, the above search would return the same number of results if it was:

bags intitle:evening

which is basically saying, in both cases, return sites about bags but only those sites with the word evening in the title.

Because of this less specific search, the non-quoted search often gives a higher number than the quoted search:

intitle:evening bags (282,000 results)
intitle:"evening bags" (23,600 results)

But it is the quoted search I'm interesting in because it gives a more accurate number of pages which have the full term in the title, and a fairer, still not ideal but fairer, indication of the competitiveness of the term (those pages who are targeting the term).

And once we have the quoted figure for your term, we can fairly compare it with the quoted intitle figure for evening bags to compare competitiveness.

[Ali-v-8]

Lol
actually the "" is a lot higher 103,000
with out flicks fro 51,000 to 52,500
Ho hum Googles acting dum :|

[awebapart.com]

Lol
actually the "" is a lot higher 103,000
with out flicks fro 51,000 to 52,500
Ho hum Googles acting dum :|
If it helps, here is an example intitle search (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=intitle%3A%22evening+bags%22) for evening bags, which should return around the 23,600 figure - just change the words in the search for your term to see if you get a more sensible figure. Apart from that I can't really help explaining your strange results without knowing exactly what you typed in.

[preciousbags]

If i become a paid member, can i get a proper site review where members can suggest and tell me how to improve the site?

Thanks

[MASSEY]

If i become a paid member, can i get a proper site review where members can suggest and tell me how to improve the site?

Thanks

Yeah, thats why i originally joined, and the site got ripped to shreds and i started again from scratch :D.

[Faevilangel]

If i become a paid member, can i get a proper site review where members can suggest and tell me how to improve the site?

Thanks

Yup you can have me, fiscix, Ali, OWG and more rip your site to shreds :D

oh and you can talk about other members / sensitive seo topics without Mr G seeing it.

We are invisible in members only social cavern :cool:

[preciousbags]

Ok lets do it :D

[preciousbags]

Yay! Am a paid member now lol. Where can i request a site review? Is there a special board for it?

[Faevilangel]

Ok lets do it :D

Welcome to the club :D Now gimme 5 minutes to get my gloves off and ready to rumble :cool:


p.s. we are not really that mean but we have to try and get people to think we are ;)

[Faevilangel]

Yay! Am a paid member now lol. Where can i request a site review? Is there a special board for it?

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74

Main homepage, first forum at the top... :D

[OldWelshGuy]

Yay! Am a paid member now lol. Where can i request a site review? Is there a special board for it?


Now you are a paid member you will see more forums on the main page, these are the paid areas :)