using a bookkeeper....?

[ally_1988]

Hi All,

Just wanting to get some advice. At present I have been doing all the accounting myself including the VAT returns. Although everything seems to be going fine, I'm very aware I don't really have a clue what I'm doing.

If I hire a bookkeeper, presumably it should save money when my accountant produces the year end accounts, right?

Since we are already running, how would we get started, would we just provide the current account balance along with the receipts/invoices etc for the month, or would they require more info?

Also if anyone can recommend any companies that would be great. Have starting up another company and am using Kashflow to do the accounts for that - which does seem quite a lot simpler - although there aren't as many transactions for that as we are only just starting up atm.

TIA :)

[dimitri1]

Hi

Subject to your business unique circumstances, needs and wants, and being an accountant with significant experience, I believe that using your accountant to do the bookkeeping/VAT may come cheaper to you for various reasons and much more efficient.

For a start, the time to prepare the accounts will be minimised as the bookkeeping is integrated with the accounts. If you use a bookkeeper, the accountant will take much longer reviewing the work, amending any errors, making adjustments to the books and liaising withe the b/keeper. I have seen very efficient bookkeepers and very inefficient ones - you get what you pay for, like everything in life. I suggest you speak with your accountant. Today's technology permits information to be exchanged remotely at a touch of a button, so that's not an issue.

And the greatest advantage is that the accountant, having continuous control over the books (and maybe preparing management accounts at regular intervals for you to monitor results and performance - we do that for our clients), will be able to provide you with sound financial advice (i.e. warn early about problems before they become big and threaten your business and spot any favourable trends so that you can take maximum advantage from those).

In addition, a sound accountant will keep an eye on tax savings opportunities by looking at how you do things and recommend changes to save you tax. Presenting your books to the accountant almost a year after the accounting year-end sometimes, to prepare your accounts is ok to comply with the taxman but historic information is no good to help you with your finances and grow your business. Also, any decisions that lead to tax inefficiency are not easy to reverse after the event.

I think it may be one of the wisest decisions you will make in your business.
I hope this helps

Demetris Savva
Constantine Savva Chartered Certified Accountants

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

But if you are doing the books yourself why do you need a bookkeeper.

Have a read of this from my blog here:

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/?p=573

Getting the most from your Accountant


Small businesses often feel they don’t get value from their accountancy fees, but it is a two way street. All too often these businesses:
• don’t keep their records properly, and don’t respond to requests for information,
• have to be chased to meet deadlines and insist work is done at the last minute
• don’t pay their bills on time
• don’t listen or respond to the advice that is given
Too often, small businesses are paying professional hourly rates simply for someone to file their paperwork or make a list of transactions.
The biggest thing the average small business can do to reduce their accountancy fee is to do the bookkeeping yourself – if you do it, you don’t have to pay your accountant significant amounts of money to do it for you.
Be aware of the deadlines that apply to you and let your accountant have your paperwork within 2 to 3 months of your year end.
Leaving things to the last minute may be natural, but it will certainly mean that you pay more and leaves no room for an unexpected delay or to deal with issues arising from the work done.
It also means that such things as tax planning can’t be done properly, and the need for advice cannot properly be addressed.
The truth is that most deadlines are generous enough to give sufficient time to complete everything, and your accountant won’t be impressed if you turn up on Christmas Eve with your records to sort out and your tax return to do.
You might believe the accountant has a month to complete the work, but the accountant will be focusing on the Christmas break and all those clients in the queue before you. He will also wonder where you have been since last April?!
What information does your accountant need?
Make sure you know what your accountant needs from you, so he doesn’t have to keep asking for missing information.
Ask your accountant for a list of what is needed.
As a guide in addition to your bookkeeping records you should also provide:
• all bank statements for all bank accounts filed in order
• details of new business loans;
• HP agreements;
• vehicle purchases and part exchange information,
• business credit card statements,
• interest on savings,
• confirmation of pension contributions
Make sure you understand what is included in the fee your accountant has quoted, and what isn’t.
How much tax planning is done, and what about a review of PAYE and VAT?
Money laundering
You also need to understand your accountants Money Laundering obligations.
The definition is very wide and includes tax evasion. All professional advisers have a legal duty to report suspected money laundering offences. In the context of accounts and tax, this could include:
• Not declaring all takings or sources of income
• Passing off personal expenses as business
• Failing to correct known VAT errors
• Having unusual, undocumented, unexplained and significant cash deposits and withdrawals
Advice
If you need advice on a complex area, make sure your accountant is aware of all the circumstances and consider asking for such advice in writing. It will reduce the risks of misunderstanding, but expect to pay a fee for it.
How much should I pay?
It is not possible to generalise about how much you should pay your accountant. It depends on your own circumstances. As a guide, a small sole trader with good bookkeeping should be able to find online Qualified Accountants from £19.99 a month or for a limited company from £29.99 a month.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi All,

Just wanting to get some advice. At present I have been doing all the accounting myself including the VAT returns. Although everything seems to be going fine, I'm very aware I don't really have a clue what I'm doing.

If I hire a bookkeeper, presumably it should save money when my accountant produces the year end accounts, right?

Since we are already running, how would we get started, would we just provide the current account balance along with the receipts/invoices etc for the month, or would they require more info?

Also if anyone can recommend any companies that would be great. Have starting up another company and am using Kashflow to do the accounts for that - which does seem quite a lot simpler - although there aren't as many transactions for that as we are only just starting up atm.

TIA :)

Hi

In general yes, with traditional accountancy practices if you do your own bookkeeping, and do it well, you will pay a lower fee for your year end accounts. But it does of course mean you buying and learning to use software, unless you use a free package or are given a package by your accountant, and spending your own time keeping your records.

I'll apologise in advance for pushing my own services but do have a look at our website if you'd like an alternative.

I run an accountancy practice which is a little different to traditional high street based practices. Quite simply we provide all in one packages for our clients which include bookkeeping, VAT returns, year end accounts and tax returns. The fees are all shown on the website and I'd be delighted to answer any questions you have if it is of interest on the forum, in a PM or via email.

[Williams lester]

We also provide an all inclusive service which can either include free access to Accounts Portal (if you wish to enter the transactions yourself) or you can send us all your records by post or e-mail for our in-house bookkeepers to work on. Prices are on the website.

[ally_1988]

But if you are doing the books yourself why do you need a bookkeeper.

Because although I can get by, the increasing number of transactions is making it more difficult and to be honest it is something I really don't enjoy doing it.

Hi

In general yes, with traditional accountancy practices if you do your own bookkeeping, and do it well, you will pay a lower fee for your year end accounts. But it does of course mean you buying and learning to use software, unless you use a free package or are given a package by your accountant, and spending your own time keeping your records.

I'll apologise in advance for pushing my own services but do have a look at our website if you'd like an alternative.

I run an accountancy practice which is a little different to traditional high street based practices. Quite simply we provide all in one packages for our clients which include bookkeeping, VAT returns, year end accounts and tax returns. The fees are all shown on the website and I'd be delighted to answer any questions you have if it is of interest on the forum, in a PM or via email.

Thanks a lot for your post. Is it an all in one service or are you able to just do the bookkeeping and VAT returns? I already have an accountant who prepares the year end accounts, who I would like to stick with.

Sage drives me mad!

[MyAccountantOnline]

Because although I can get by, the increasing number of transactions is making it more difficult and to be honest it is something I really don't enjoy doing it.



Thanks a lot for your post. Is it an all in one service or are you able to just do the bookkeeping and VAT returns? I already have an accountant who prepares the year end accounts, who I would like to stick with.

Sage drives me mad!

Hi

We can provide just bookkeeping and VAT returns but the prices on our website would be unchanged as our packages are designed to include everything a small business needs ie to include accounts and tax returns. If we did your 'books' your accountant would truly have very little work to do at the year end!

I never like to turn away any potential client, but if you are truly happy with your accountant why not ask them if they will provide a combined package for you like we do for our clients?

PS Sage drives alot of people mad!;):):)

[ally_1988]

Hi

We can provide just bookkeeping and VAT returns but the prices on our website would be unchanged as our packages are designed to include everything a small business needs ie to include accounts and tax returns. If we did your 'books' your accountant would truly have very little work to do at the year end!

I never like to turn away any potential client, but if you are truly happy with your accountant why not ask them if they will provide a combined package for you like we do for our clients?

PS Sage drives alot of people mad!;):):)

Yea that's fair enough.

My current accountant has been very supportive and patient so wouldn't want to leave him. As you say, might be worth seeing if they can offer a complete package like yourself.

Thank you very much for answering my questions though and at least bringing my attention to your service (which does seem really good and very reasonably priced)

:)

[MyAccountantOnline]

Yea that's fair enough.

My current accountant has been very supportive and patient so wouldn't want to leave him. As you say, might be worth seeing if they can offer a complete package like yourself.

Thank you very much for answering my questions though and at least bringing my attention to your service (which does seem really good and very reasonably priced)

:)

Thank you - if you have a good accountant stick with them:) Hope all goes well.

[E Storey]

Too often, small businesses are paying professional hourly rates simply for someone to file their paperwork or make a list of transactions.


Couldn't agree more with Elaine on this! Even for a bookkeeper it's dishartening, though financially rewarding to find myself charging around 400 pounds per month to do data entry and filing for a small business whilst the owner is sat at the next desk playing world of warcraft....

He says I'm worth every penny, having seen the state of his books when I started, he's probably right!

[billie1]

Too often, small businesses are paying professional hourly rates simply for someone to file their paperwork or make a list of transactions.


Totally DISAGREE with the above statement. Small businesses pay professional hourly rates to take the burden off themselves and to allow them time to concentrate on their business.

This is the same reason businesses would pay an accountant high fees. Many can handle their own accounts, but choose to pay an accountant.

TIME IS MONEY!!!!

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

let's not take the one line out of context! :p

If you read the whole article it is in the context of getting the most form your accountant.

Often accountants are asked to do the bookkeeping or other tasks that can easily be done by the business owner.

If they want to reduce fees then there are other options than getting the accountant to do it.

If they don't have the time or expertise to do it themselves then obviously they pay someone else.

:):)

[weebly_one]

Ally,

Where are you based - I am a freelance bookkeeper and Sage trainer based in Northamptonshire and can provide references relating to my work if you are interested.

I taught a new client sage recently - and they really got to grips with what they were doing and were very positive at the end of the sessions - but then decided that they would rather I took over the bookkeeping anyway, as they agreed with you, it can be quite boring and there were other things they would rather be doing! At least they fully understand the value of what I am doing for them now though!

My networking tag line is 'let me take care of your books so you can take care of business'!