Accounting software-help!

[AnnieUK]

Hi all,

this is my first day register here. and i find a lot of professionals here.

my situation is i am a sole trader

this is my first year, so i am planning to do my own account return. and it gives me an idea to act as a self-employed to do accounts for other sole trader or small company.

however, i ve been thinking is there a single accounting software can do all accounts for so many clints and how do they distinguish between different companies' account, include account for myself. how the other do this on one software if they have more than one customer

and if i do this, does this mean i have run two business at the same time, is there an restriction for this. or for accounts and tax purpose.

I thank for all take your time to read my query and all advice would be very much appreciated.

[Tom McClelland]

Paging Elaine.... :cool:

[Mpg]

Solar accounts does what you want and is very reasonable:D

[David Griffiths]

Paging Elaine.... :cool:

. . . or Zeno!

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

well I was warned about being nice to people last week ....

So in the nicest way possible and with a friendly smile on my face:

have a read of this:

http://www.whatisanaccountant.co.uk/

so:

do you have:

Any accounting or tax experience
Any accountancy qualification
Belong to an accounting professional body
Any professional indemnity insurance
Passed any examinations


Are you registered for money laundering?

Are you registered with the ICO?

Good luck with the business. :)

[efficiencycoach]

Whilst I admire your entrepreneurial spirit, I would suggest you reconsider your decision to offer an accountancy service. Have you thought about the reason most book keepers and accountants study for years to gain their qualifications...

[Mpg]

I really must read posts properly. I thought you wanted an accounting package that could deal with your numerous businesses.:eek:

[AnnieUK]

Hi all

thanks for all your reply really appreciated

I am actually past all my acca paper exam so I am qualified accountant now by academic however my experience is weak compare to my qualification I didn't work in any large company and not worked for many years so I know my experience as an accountant is not strong enough at all but I hope I am ok to do only bookkeeping and start from easy bit I know it can be it be harder than I thought to be honest I have no idea how should it to start and how hard it will be

From your reply I just know I need to register for money laundering and register with ico. Do I have to do these registration in order to become a sole trader for bookkeeping?

I feel a sham on myself I don't even know what ico is although I can google it

I m currently a sole trader but not doing accounting I am selling car parts although it is good profit but it is not related to my studying at all I hope to do something that can make use of my academic study

I am so admire the professionals here have worked in accounting field and have great knowledge

I hope my life will start will business forum and I can learn from the professionals here from my study I feel accountings so wild and I often come across something that I don't know especially without enough working experience
sometimes I wondered when will I be able to use my study into practice . When will be able to know all the rule and be a real accountant

I thank you for everybody here give me the advice

Regards
annie







I am currently register

[kjmcculloch]

The ICO is the Information Commissioner's Office, this is the office you must register with to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998. The good news is, that the ICO has stated if you only offer bookkeeping services then you need not be registered. So it shouldn't impact on you too much.

Kris

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I think doing a self assessment would be deemed as accountancy though and this does require registration.

[kjmcculloch]

From what I read the OP was doing only their own return and accounts for others. I may be reading it wrongly though.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

From what I read the OP was doing only their own return and accounts for others. I may be reading it wrongly though.

Interesting question - doing the accounts.

Does that make her a bookkeeper or an accountant?

[kjmcculloch]

well, I think since there is no legal definition of either. And given the fact anyone can call themselves either an accountant or a bookkeeper without any qualifications, skills or experience it could in reality be either.

I feel it is defined by exactly the work they are doing. However, I do think in recent years the dividing line has become very blurred. In the past I would have said a bookkeeper was up to and including trial balance then this would be passed to an accountant for any adjustments and completion of final accounts and statutory returns.

Though it would appear many bookkeepers are now venturing into final accounts. My supervisory body (ICB) are now running an exam that allows their bookkeepers to complete self assessments for sole traders, which I would have said until now has been firmly in the accountants remit.

Interested to hear your opinions though.

Kris

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Putting aside my hobby horse of anyone can call themselves an accountant .... :)

If doing any tax returns - then that is accountancy IMO.

Doing books up to TB - bookkeeper. Any further it is accountancy and not bookkeeping IMO.

So I think we agree :p

So as a matter of interest does you professional body insist on registration with ICO if doing self assessments?

Mind you if we don;t know gawd knows what Joe Public think :|

Just have to mention:

http://www.whatisanaccountant.co.uk/

[asdfghjkl]

I think doing a self assessment would be deemed as accountancy though and this does require registration.
I too agree with you.

[Steve_gts]

I would define the difference as an Accountant can sign off year end, whereas a book keeper cant.

Anyway, re the OP, have you looked at Sage ? you could use instant accounts if it's just for one company, but if you need multiple companies, I think you need Sage 50 (but you do pay for each extra company. see here http://www.ledgerservices.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html for prices.

[kjmcculloch]

Ok, just phoned the notification team at ICO. They say that unless you undertake auditing you don't need to register. I asked specifically about statutory returns, self assessments etc. They say no need to register.

Kris

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I would define the difference as an Accountant can sign off year end, whereas a book keeper cant.



There is no 'signing off' accounts for audit exempt companies - anyone can prepare them subject to any practice cert. they may hold and you don't even need one of those.
:)

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Ok, just phoned the notification team at ICO. They say that unless you undertake auditing you don't need to register. I asked specifically about statutory returns, self assessments etc. They say no need to register.

Kris

Am on the phone to them now - first said you do have to register if you are an accountant now checking this once I read your post to them!

[David Griffiths]

Ok, just phoned the notification team at ICO. They say that unless you undertake auditing you don't need to register. I asked specifically about statutory returns, self assessments etc. They say no need to register.

Kris

That beggars belief. Notification is required by any organisation which processes "personal data" It is impossible to deal with self assessment forms without personal data - dates of birth, NI numbers, tax references, bank accounts etc

Furthermore, the ICO's own website (http://www.ico.gov.uk/notify/self/question4.html) lists a joint entry for Accountancy/auditing and indicates that this activity is not exempt.

There is an exemption for "Accounts and Records" but that clearly refers to accounts and records for your own business. The booklet on exemptions (http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/forms/notification_exemptions_-_self-assessment_guide.pdf), on page 24, states that

Data controllers who are providing accounting service for their customers are not exemptIt really is worrying that telephone callers are given this kind of rubbish.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

They confirm accountants have to register in all cases and they have targeted accountants on this matter - end of.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

That beggars belief. Notification is required by any organisation which processes "personal data" It is impossible to deal with self assessment forms without personal data - dates of birth, NI numbers, tax references, bank accounts etc

Furthermore, the ICO's own website (http://www.ico.gov.uk/notify/self/question4.html) lists a joint entry for Accountancy/auditing and indicates that this activity is not exempt.

There is an exemption for "Accounts and Records" but that clearly refers to accounts and records for your own business. The booklet on exemptions (http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/forms/notification_exemptions_-_self-assessment_guide.pdf), on page 24, states that

It really is worrying that telephone callers are given this kind of rubbish.


They have checked amongst the team today and they say (don't shot the messenger) that no one gave out this info.

Spoken to a really nice helpful lady there and I have her direct line in case of future query.

[David Griffiths]

They have checked amongst the team today and they say (don't shot the messenger) that no one gave out this info.



Interesting. Is there a separate registry in Scotland then?

[billie1]

Back to the OP's question!!!

There are many different softwares on the market today. You can give 'Quickbooks Pro' a try, its very user friendly and it allows multicompany. I think you can have up to 99 different companies on the same package. You can also use it for your existing business.

Regarding whether you should do this business separate from your existing one, because its two different businesses I would think you should keep them separate.

[kjmcculloch]

I can assure you, I was told this. And I am not the only one. Have a look at:

http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/index.spark?aBID=106474&p=3&topicID=36716130
http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/index.spark?aBID=106474&p=3&topicID=32377250

They really need to get their act together, it's really not good enough that an answer depends on who you speak to.

Kris

[Zeno]

Interesting. Is there a separate registry in Scotland then?

There is a regional office up here (and in your neck of the woods too) but no seperate registry that I am aware of (and it would sort of defeat the purpose too but then this has never stopped "the man" before).

[kjmcculloch]

as an update, I called again and was told yes. It appears they have serious issues. Perhaps lack of training. I apologise to Elaine and others for posting the misleading information I, and others have been given over a period of years.

Bizarrely, they cant trace who I spoke to at quarter past eleven.

Kris

[Zeno]

The crux of the matter seems to be some confusion over the role of a book keeper, an accountant and an auditor, specifically in regards to working papers.

They seem to suggest that book keepers process information but don't keep it while accountants & auditors do.

Did we expect anything less of a government department? (We can summarise to anyone in business doing anything has to register to pay the tax...err, I mean fee).

[kjmcculloch]

Yip, along with the £120 to HMRC to stop money laundering. I love the thought that paying £120 to be on a list stops terrorists or organised criminals from laundering money.

Repeat after me... It's not a stealth tax on bookkeepers and accountants.

Kris

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Interesting. Is there a separate registry in Scotland then?


I asked that and they said not

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

as an update, I called again and was told yes. It appears they have serious issues. Perhaps lack of training. I apologise to Elaine and others for posting the misleading information I, and others have been given over a period of years.

Bizarrely, they cant trace who I spoke to at quarter past eleven.

Kris

Kris - no need at all. I am sure that you understand that I had to correct this just in case someone relies on the info here :p

[kjmcculloch]

I understand Elaine, just like I relied on the information they provided me.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Luckily we all have the answers here :p:p

[Zeno]

I relied on the information they provided me.

Are you sure you are not an accountant?

[AnnieUK]

They confirm accountants have to register in all cases and they have targeted accountants on this matter - end of.

thank you you all for the information

just to make it clear in my case

when you say accountant does this mean you registered in an accountant business. i finished all my ACCA exams, but not claim any experience yet although i worked in company as account assistant for 3 years.

so do i qualified as the word accountant?

another point is if i only do the accounts return and self-assessment for myself as a sole trader (i am currently selling car wipers), do i still need to register with ico and money laundering (i never thought of this i need to do anything for making returns myself)

as i know i don't have to get an accountant to do my account return if i can do it myself. Inland revenue can accept that (am i right here)

i understand now i need to register money laundery and ico if i want to start bookkeeping business as a sole trader.

Thank you you all again for all your useful information

regards
annie

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Are you providing bookkeeping or accounting services to others?

[kjmcculloch]

If you only do accounts for yourself and no one else you dont need to register for MLR or with ICO (unless you do other things that come under their remit) If you don't know phone them 3 times and see the range of answers you get ;)

Anyone can call themselves an accountant. I'm not saying it's right, but it's legal.

Kris

[AnnieUK]

Are you providing bookkeeping or accounting services to others?


i am not providing any service at the moment. i am just doing it for myself at the moment. but i am thinking to provide accounting service in future or very near future for others.

my accounts is deadly easy only income- expense =profit. so i don't see a problem but if it becomes a business i am not sure it might get complex.

[AnnieUK]

If you only do accounts for yourself and no one else you dont need to register for MLR or with ICO (unless you do other things that come under their remit) If you don't know phone them 3 times and see the range of answers you get ;)

Anyone can call themselves an accountant. I'm not saying it's right, but it's legal.

Kris


haha, 1 out of 3 should be the correct answer, but the question is which one is right.

do you mind if i ask, how do you know all about accounting stuff i mean for example doing accounts for others. the situation is always change, how do you learn them all. i work as account assistant at the moment, i only do up to trail balance. i never complete a full set of accounts. it is not difficult to do a full set after you have your Trail balance or is it? so the accountant only need to re-arrange the information in trail balance to a profit and loss account and balance sheet format?? am i right?

sorry to ask this silly question, but i don't have any experience like this in real world and i really want to learn.

Thank you for all your answers

Regards
Annie

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

h i never complete a full set of accounts. it is not difficult to do a full set after you have your Trail balance or is it? so the accountant only need to re-arrange the information in trail balance to a profit and loss account and balance sheet format?? am i right?



yes of course it is that easy - we just re-arrange a couple of figuresand accounts done.

That's why we spend 3 years taking exams and then getting two more years of experience before we get a practicising certificate.

Yep and before someone pipes up - I am being harsh - Correct.

But it is posts like this that make me so mad :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Please get some relevant experience before you take money from a client to do work for which you clearly do not have the expertise to do :mad:

[kjmcculloch]

I would agree with Elaine here. You should only do as much as you are confident and qualified to do.

I know I said earlier that anyone can call themselves an Accountant or Bookkeeper, that doesn't mean they should.

By taking on work you are not capable of doing you can open yourself up to huge claims from clients or even court action if you make a mistake. Mistakes in this field can be costly and without qualification and experience insurance is difficult to come by.

Leaving accounting to one side at the moment, many people think bookkeeping is easy. And it can be if you know what you're doing, but cant the same be said about everything. Building a house isn't hard if you have the skills, but I wouldn't try it.

Why not look at becoming a member in practice of one of the bookkeeping/accountancy associations. They'll not only give you advice and support on setting up, but can help you refresh your skills and provide evidence to new clients that you are accredited, therefore are able to meet a certain level of skill.

Kris

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Kris - good points.

Just to raise a question though - the OP says that they have trained as an ACCA.

Now then I think that if you have spent the time and effort doing those exams then why not try to get some experience to be able to use the qualification.

Otherwise if I were on that situation I wonder why I would have bothered to take them.

[Zeno]

Do you ever get the impression we are wasting our time here?

It seems that for every student we convince that they need some sort of professional experience to work in the field, there are 10 others with a nice new certificate of some sort who think they can too.

Do these people never read the rules of the institutes they aspire to membership of?

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Do you ever get the impression we are wasting our time here?

It seems that for every student we convince that they need some sort of professional experience to work in the field, there are 10 others with a nice new certificate of some sort who think they can too.

Do these people never read the rules of the institutes they aspire to membership of?

oh gawd - another day when I agree with Zeno. What is happening to me :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[kjmcculloch]

Elaine - I did read your blog post today, I can only imagine that maybe the OP passed this some time ago.

Zeno - Yes, but do you get the impression that some institutes are only interested in getting the cash.

Kris

[Zeno]

oh gawd - another day when I agree with Zeno. What is happening to me :eek::eek::eek::eek:

You get more right wing as you get older...

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

You get more right wing as you get older...

oh deep joy - something to look forward to when I get to your age then :rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::):p;)

[Zeno]

oh deep joy - something to look forward to when I get to your age then :rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::):p;)

It's not all bad - people make allowances for your ill temper, bad manners and when you make wee mistakes with political correctness.

We also have bus passes and reduced price hair cuts.

[wizzard]

It's not all bad - people make allowances for your ill temper, bad manners and when you make wee mistakes with political correctness.

We also have bus passes and reduced price hair cuts.

Do you also remember the war? :D

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

wee mistakes

I think I am reading this incorrectly :eek::):p:p

I went on a bus a couple of weeks ago - first time in years and they wouldn't let me take my Star Bucks on with me! Health and safety for some reason :eek::eek:

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Do you also remember the war? :D

he bloody started it :D:D

[Kate_Fletcher]

Oh Elaine thank you so much for posting this on Twitter. You have made my afternoon!! :)
My advice to Annie would be to LEAVE IT WELL ALONE!!! You obviously don't have sufficient experience to do other people's accounts and tax or may be even your own.
For anyone else I would suggest getting advice from Robyn Banks from aDaVista about the Data Protection Act and the Freedom of Information Act. As said before any business handling any personal information (incl names, addresses, tel numbers) in any format needs to register with ICO. I'd make that all businesses.
I wish I'd been in Elaine's office when she first read this - priceless.:eek::eek:

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I wish I'd been in Elaine's office when she first read this - priceless.:eek::eek:

I promise I didn't swear - well I promise I didn't swear much :p:p

[Mpg]

Oh Elaine thank you so much for posting this on Twitter. You have made my afternoon!! :)
My advice to Annie would be to LEAVE IT WELL ALONE!!! You obviously don't have sufficient experience to do other people's accounts and tax or may be even your own.
For anyone else I would suggest getting advice from Robyn Banks from aDaVista about the Data Protection Act and the Freedom of Information Act. As said before any business handling any personal information (incl names, addresses, tel numbers) in any format needs to register with ICO. I'd make that all businesses.
I wish I'd been in Elaine's office when she first read this - priceless.:eek::eek:


ANY personal information. I have the bank details of my subbies does that count.:eek:

[Zeno]

I think I am reading this incorrectly :eek::):p:p

I went on a bus a couple of weeks ago - first time in years and they wouldn't let me take my Star Bucks on with me! Health and safety for some reason :eek::eek:

I wouldn't know how to go about getting on a bus even if I wanted to. No idea where they stop or go to. Do they take debit/credit cards yet?

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

ANY personal information. I have the bank details of my subbies does that count.:eek:

yes !!!!!!!

[Zeno]

he bloody started it :D:D

That's not fair. I have never even fought with a German over a sunbed on holiday but I did come close to smacking a Japanese tourist in Miami over a pizza. Long story...

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I confess I have (only ever on one occasion) thrown towels in the pool that had been left on unoccupied sun beds all day when there were no other beds free.

I then moved the bed to the other side of the pool :p

Oh dear :eek::eek::eek:

[Kate_Fletcher]

ANY personal information. I have the bank details of my subbies does that count.:eek:

From Robyn's website: "Regardless of how data are processed, compliance with the Act is a legal requirement. However, if you only hold data in a manual format, or electronically for three very specific reasons, then Notification may not be required. Best thing to be sure is check it out with a 'specialist'." - So I would guess so - Its not just data relating to individuals -it can be data personal to a business - addresses telephone numbers, bank details, etc, etc, etc.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

Phone the ICO - they are ever so nice and helpful.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I did come close to smacking a Japanese tourist in Miami over a pizza. Long story...

go on ..... I have to ask.

What flavour pizza was it :p

[Mpg]

Phone the ICO - they are ever so nice and helpful.

I can't tell if thats was sarcastic or not.

But I know have another job to do thanks to this forum.




In all seriousness Thanks its better to know now than later


YAY 500 post where's me cake??

[wizzard]

That's not fair. I have never even fought with a German over a sunbed on holiday but I did come close to smacking a Japanese tourist in Miami over a pizza. Long story...

We have the time :D

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I can't tell if thats was sarcastic or not.

But I know have another job to do thanks to this forum.




In all seriousness Thanks its better to know now than later


YAY 500 post where's me cake??

In this instance it was not being sarcastic - they really are helpful and will tell you what you need to do.

[kjmcculloch]

Maybe not the first time you ask though :P

Kris

[Zeno]

go on ..... I have to ask.

What flavour pizza was it :p

I was in Miami on holiday and returning to the hotel when the decision was reached to get a pizza to take back with us.

The thing came in this massive box about the size of a car tyre and I was holding it when I got into the lift. At the next level, a japanese guy got in (all bags & cameras) but followed by about 20 others like they were trying for a world record attempt.

The box started to get crushed against my chest and by the time we got to our stop the bloody pizza was running down my shirt and burning me.

My wife was damn near pissing herself laughing which was not helping my temper any and all the japs were staring.

Then the first little git took photo of me! That's when I got the red mist but fortunately my wife got me away before any damage was done.

[billie1]

Do you ever get the impression we are wasting our time here?

It seems that for every student we convince that they need some sort of professional experience to work in the field, there are 10 others with a nice new certificate of some sort who think they can too.

Do these people never read the rules of the institutes they aspire to membership of?

Well the rules of the institute (ICB) allows people to practice as soon as they complete the required qualification. I think this is the problem, the ICB are offering their courses to as many training providers as possible and these providers are ruthlessly selling these coures to individuals. The ICB are money motivated so will allow anyone to offer their courses. This is why I think the IAB is a more prestigious qualification. Hence the reason why most people who come on here wanting to set up as bookkeepers will be ICB qualified.

I don't blame the individuals, if they are being sold the qualification on the idea they can become a successful bookkeeper and earn £30K, this is the sort of lines used to sell these courses.

I'm not taking anything away from some of the ICB qualified bookkeepers as I'm sure some can provide competent bookkeeping services, but it is the way the courses are sold, it gurantees success as a bookkeeper which isn't always the case.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

I was in Miami on holiday and returning to the hotel when the decision was reached to get a pizza to take back with us.

The thing came in this massive box about the size of a car tyre and I was holding it when I got into the lift. At the next level, a japanese guy got in (all bags & cameras) but followed by about 20 others like they were trying for a world record attempt.

The box started to get crushed against my chest and by the time we got to our stop the bloody pizza was running down my shirt and burning me.

My wife was damn near pissing herself laughing which was not helping my temper any and all the japs were staring.

Then the first little git took photo of me! That's when I got the red mist but fortunately my wife got me away before any damage was done.

:D:D:D:D:D

but you still haven't told me the flavour :p

[wizzard]

:D:D:D:D:D

but you still haven't told me the flavour :p

Burnt shirt and skin flavour? :D