Page Titles Best Practice

[paretowasright]

I have just been reading some new info about page titles for e-commerce and the advice conflicts with the principles I have used previously.

I have been using a format as follows:

Product Name sometimes with keyword at front and then a call to action...ie if it was say an Ipad but 'apple computers' was the hot keyword then would look something like this

Apple Computers | Ipad Netbook White | Buy Apple Computers Online

The new stuff I am reading concentrates on keeping the page title as short as possible to increase density so its more SEO focussed rather than SEM (ie no 'buy apple computers online' )

I can totally see the logic as the above example dilutes the keyword power of 'apple computers' with it being mentioned twice. I also know that the keyword at the front of the page title has more prominence in SERPS and Google Base as have tested it.

I would welcome any views on this in terms of what others have found works best as I find its sometimes a difficult decision which goes first between the keyword and the product name + should the call to actions be removed??

[bdw]

My first instinct was that your methods could potentially be described as spammy and that Google's algorithm could easily detect this. However I just checked their own SEO Guide (http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/www.google.com/en//webmasters/docs/search-engine-optimization-starter-guide.pdf)and their instructions for writing titles looks pretty much like the method you are using?
.
.

[paretowasright]

My first instinct was that your methods could potentially be described as spammy and that Google's algorithm could easily detect this. However I just checked their own SEO Guide (http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/www.google.com/en//webmasters/docs/search-engine-optimization-starter-guide.pdf)and their instructions for writing titles looks pretty much like the method you are using?
.
.

Hi yes I thought I was using best practice but the new advice seems to be to have the titles as short as possible to increase the effective keyword density so toying with going to something like the following:

Ipad Netbook White | Apple Computers Buy Online

OR

Apple Computers | Ipad Netbook White Buy Online

[webmojo]

The words at the beginning of the title carry more weighting then those at the end. Also I would leave out the Apple computers part, as anybody searching Ipad would know apple make them.

With Titles, the more specific they are to the users search/intention then the better the conversion.

So
Buy Online - Ipad Netbook White

If someone is searching to buy online its a fairly good indicator that they want to make a purchase

[paretowasright]

The words at the beginning of the title carry more weighting then those at the end. Also I would leave out the Apple computers part, as anybody searching Ipad would know apple make them.

With Titles, the more specific they are to the users search/intention then the better the conversion.

So
Buy Online - Ipad Netbook White

If someone is searching to buy online its a fairly good indicator that they want to make a purchase

Hi firstly thanks for the good feedback, the Ipad example was purely illustrative and not real.
I do not agree about having 'Buy Online at the beginning as it would be given more weighting than the actual brand or product name.
I can see how 'buy online' is useful for a broad search but think its best after the product or brand name rather than at the start.

[sirearl]

Its all a balancing act,once you have a reasonable ranking for your major keywords then you can expand your title to encompass multiple targeted keywords.

Its seldom in general that having a single major keyword will bring you major targeted traffic as most people search for 2 , 3 or 4 word phrases.

Long titles can be very benificial in driving mass targeted traffic.

The idea that google will not read beyond 65 characters is a myth.

http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/seo-blog/index.php/google-you-can-put-50-words-in-your-title-tag-well-read-it/

Earl

[paretowasright]

Earl,

Ironically the new advice seems to be shorter titles but am fully onboard about long tail and have been quite successful in that regard. I am now experimenting more with optimising for Google base as well which seems to have a big weighting for the beginning of the title and have been able to get ranked for some quite high title and page competition keywords within the 3 visible shopping results. As you said its a balancing act between SEO and SEM and whether to go after the long tail product name OR the chose hot brand keyword.

[webmojo]

Hi firstly thanks for the good feedback, the Ipad example was purely illustrative and not real.
I do not agree about having 'Buy Online at the beginning as it would be given more weighting than the actual brand or product name.
I can see how 'buy online' is useful for a broad search but think its best after the product or brand name rather than at the start.

Its a balancing act, and the longtail is where the bulk of traffic that converts is going to come from. The title that closely matches the users intention is going to be the one that gets clicked the most.

[paretowasright]

Its a balancing act, and the longtail is where the bulk of traffic that converts is going to come from. The title that closely matches the users intention is going to be the one that gets clicked the most.

Yes I agree about the longtail and its very well known but the point here is that you are advocating giving 'buy online' the prominence at the beginning of the title and I feel it should be at the end to give either the product name or brand keyword the best chance for optimisation. I am happy to be proved wrong so perhaps we can get a view from someone else.

[webmojo]

Yes I agree about the longtail and its very well known but the point here is that you are advocating giving 'buy online' the prominence at the beginning of the title and I feel it should be at the end to give either the product name or brand keyword the best chance for optimisation. I am happy to be proved wrong so perhaps we can get a view from someone else.

I'm sorry I think we have a bit of misunderstanding , I'm not advocating that you place buy online at the front. I was just using it as an example of one of the ways the title could be formulated. From a purely SEO aspect you are correct that the placing of the item name at the front is logical.

But you have got me thinking, would there be a difference in the click through rates from the search engines by using the search modifiers "buy online" my suspicion would be that the click through rates would drop as you would weed out those looking for information. The on page visitor conversion would probably increase.

I have no research prove or disprove my theory so its just educated guesswork.

[paretowasright]

I'm sorry I think we have a bit of misunderstanding , I'm not advocating that you place buy online at the front. I was just using it as an example of one of the ways the title could be formulated. From a purely SEO aspect you are correct that the placing of the item name at the front is logical.

But you have got me thinking, would there be a difference in the click through rates from the search engines by using the search modifiers "buy online" my suspicion would be that the click through rates would drop as you would weed out those looking for information. The on page visitor conversion would probably increase.

I have no research prove or disprove my theory so its just educated guesswork.

Hi sorry about the misunderstanding, you make a very astute observation that 'buy online' could infact weed out some of the 'tyre kickers' !!

I have also found in PPC campaigns that search terms with 'brand name' uk stockists or 'buy' brand name 'online' or where can I buy 'brand name' do indeed convert much better along with long tail product names.

[sirearl]

Hi sorry about the misunderstanding, you make a very astute observation that 'buy online' could infact weed out some of the 'tyre kickers' !!


Do you mean the people who don't know they are online.?:p

Earl

[ukipodearphones]

I use descriptive titles. I spose the best way to find out is take notice of the top websites title's. See what work's and what doesn't. after all the information you want is right there for you when you want it.

[sirearl]

I use descriptive titles. I spose the best way to find out is take notice of the top websites title's. See what work's and what doesn't. after all the information you want is right there for you when you want it.

Not always a good idea as pages do not always rank based on there titles.

Earl

[ukipodearphones]

not always no. Though i suppose it's up to what your page is. Let's say a product page. It's better to target the keywords of the product to get better targeted visitors. Let's say your home page, more brief to target the keywords of your specific area. I suppose it all depends

[sirearl]

It's better to target the keywords of the product to get better targeted visitors. Let's say your home page, more brief to target the keywords of your specific area. I suppose it all depends

Only if there are sufficent searches for the product,otherwise it may be better to be more generic.

Earl