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View Full Version : The trials and tribulations of commercial mortgages


fathippy
20th May 2010, 08:40
Two part post here - first one is if any of you clever commercial mortgage brokers want to PM me, I am looking for a product to buy my shop!

Second part is a brief rant! I contacted an unnamed building society who seemed to offer the best commercial product and was fairly taken aback by the (what seemed) ridiculous rules they worked under. I am sure many of you will explain these to me, but I still cannot understand them!

1) They ignore any rent from the premises you purchase - ie if you are buying to replace paying rent, then you need to demonstrate alternate means of paying the interest (not just the money you save by not paying rent - even if this is 2 or more times as much as the interest). This seems to ignore a fairly important part of the equation - indeed if the buy to let market operated in this fashion it would cease to exist.

2) Not only do they require alternative means of funds but they also refuse to read accounts in a normal fashion. They are mandated by the FSA (allegedly) to ignore all non-cash items, so if a set of accounts shows profits of eg £50k and then allowances of eg £45k, they can only consider the 5k, even if there is cashflow of 50 !!

Maybe I had a particularly "box ticking" type experience, but if this is the sign of how small business is treated, then it is no wonder plenty are giving up. It seems that if you have a couple of questionable payslips and a dodgy one bedroom flat above a kebab shop (no proof of tenants or income yet) you can borrow freely (even these days) yet if you have had a business for 20 years with stable income, it is nigh on impossible to buy your own shop without paying about 50% yourself, a rate of 7%+ and guarantees, hoops etc up the ying yang. What is the social stigma here??

Rant over!

Zeno
20th May 2010, 08:55
I would love to say I am shocked by this but I am afraid it is nothing new to me. It can give me an awful ethical dilema when I audit accounts yet am aware of how that particular company's bankers view the results. WIP is a particular area of contention whereby for one client it is ignored entirely (client then would like to show as Trade Debt instead and so begins the fun & games...).

As for your particular circumstances, the rent issue seems unsual. I take it your forecasts show that when you replace the monthly rent with a monthly mortgage payment, you are left with a surplus in terms of profit & cashflow?

The ignoring of non-cash items may be related to my own WIP issue but I am not sure what you mean by allowances?

fathippy
20th May 2010, 09:13
Numbers wise, there is a net profit of about 5k in the accounts, however this is after deducting 10k in rent. Borrowing approx 100k would cost under 5k in interest, so net net the company would be 5k better off by owning rather than renting.

The simpler way of looking at it would be as a "commercial buy to let" where you are paying 5k in interest and receiving 10k in rent, and the tenant is financially viable over and above this. They tell me that even in that scenario they are "not allowed" to use the rental income as proof of paying the mortgage!!

Regarding allowances that was my generic term for non cash stuff. Depreciation and Amortisation are the main ones, but at the back of my head there were other bits and bobs that got deducted which did not affect the cashflow. (I am not an accountant, so forgive my ignorance)

Billmccallum
20th May 2010, 09:53
try http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/28/ShowForum.aspx

a few commercial finance bods hang out here, they may be able to help.

KM-Tiger
20th May 2010, 14:34
Having remortgaged on commercial premises last year, I'm glad I used a broker, well worth their fee.

Happy to PM you details of who I used, though geography might get in the way.

Jenni384
20th May 2010, 15:03
1) They ignore any rent from the premises you purchase - ie if you are buying to replace paying rent, then you need to demonstrate alternate means of paying the interest (not just the money you save by not paying rent - even if this is 2 or more times as much as the interest). This seems to ignore a fairly important part of the equation - indeed if the buy to let market operated in this fashion it would cease to exist.

I have to say I'm surprised by this part. I have a client looking to buy their premises that they were previously renting, and the bank will add back the rent to their profit (which as you say is logical).