View Full Version : Debtors/creditors control account in sage
Newbie22
18th May 2010, 17:44
Hello,
I am cafuffled...
Can someone clarify a debors control account should always be a debit balance on the trial balance?
In what instance would it be a credit balance?
Thanks so much! :)
johndon68
18th May 2010, 17:48
If it is a credit then it would suggest that you owe customers as opposed to them owing you.
John
elainec100@cheapaccounting
18th May 2010, 18:38
or there is a f*** up some where on the postings!
With this and your other postings my suggestion - get a recommended bookkeeper to go through everything asap freeing you up to run the business.
johndon68
18th May 2010, 18:53
As Elaine so eloquently put it :D
If the figure is wrong then I'd suggest that a journal entry direct to the debtors controls account is the most likely culprit.
John
Newbie22
18th May 2010, 19:39
I think the accounts are wrong as I am seeing major irregularities...
i.e. petty cash is a credit balance of £966.89... that cant be right surely?
and the sick thing is my accounts have been audited by a reputable accountancy firm... so I am confused....
so corporation tax is most likely wrong...
Maybe I will have to hire Elaine see if u can sort this mess out for me! But I insist on going out to dinner with my accountant! lol :D
Jenni384
18th May 2010, 20:07
Maybe I will have to hire Elaine see if u can sort this mess out for me! But I insist on going out to dinner with my accountant! lol :D
Get your coat Elaine I think you've pulled! :D
Newbie, your company needs to appoint an accountant to deal with the end of year, and you need to liaise closely with them. This needs to happen very soon.
The end of year accountant will still have various things to work through. It can be false economy to try and fix these things yourself - an experienced accountant can likely sort it out quicker than you and it might actually work out cheaper in the long run.
Strontium Dog
18th May 2010, 20:07
When they completed your year end accounts they should have provided a schedule of adjustents to make your accounts agree to theirs. From what you say I suspect they have not done this.
Do you reconcile the blances on the indiviual debtor accounts to what they owe you, or the petty cash balance to what is in the tin?
Newbie22
18th May 2010, 20:17
thats a good idea... I will liase with them tomorrow... I can see that on some of the joural entries there are adjustmet as per joe bloggs which is th accountants... so I tink it is just a bodge job... I mean I am only turning over 3-4 million a year... but its big sales not little sales...
@jenni - elaine shouldnt put her picture up... otherwise I would have just thought she was a boring accountant lol... anyway im too young for her! :P
David Griffiths
18th May 2010, 20:37
. so I tink it is just a bodge job...
With respect, how can you say that? It is evident from your postings and questions that you have, at best, a very tenuous grasp of double entry bookkeeping yet you feel capable of deciding that something presumably done by a professional firm of accountants and a bookkeeper is a bodge job.
Or is " I tink it is just a bodge job" shorthand for "I haven't got a clue?"
Your business is too big for DIY bookkeeping
Strontium Dog
18th May 2010, 20:42
Your business is too big for DIY bookkeeping
I nearly fell off my chair when you said you were turning over 3-4 Mill, spend a few grand per year on a proper bookeeper you tightwad !
Newbie22
18th May 2010, 20:51
2 grand is 2 grand... i woud rather spend it on a meal for me and elaine! :P
but yes u r right... I am just trying to sort out all the odd bits before i go on the hunt for a new FC or accountant... or both i suspect... thanks for your help by the way! :)
elainec100@cheapaccounting
19th May 2010, 06:20
@jenni - elaine shouldnt put her picture up... otherwise I would have just thought she was a boring accountant lol... anyway im too young for her! :P
too old my a*** :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Get your hand in your pocket for an accountant with bookkeeping to get this bloody mess sorted out. If turnover is what you say then with the time saved and your silver tongue your will earn back the accountants fee in no time :rolleyes::p:):D
Newbie22
19th May 2010, 07:39
I will get an accountant... :) But I will still hassle everyone's brain to help me build an understanding of whats going on! :)
Thanks all for your help.... you have all been helpful, even if my question are really daft! :D
David Griffiths
19th May 2010, 07:45
I will get an accountant... :) But I will still hassle everyone's brain to help me build an understanding of whats going on! :)
Thanks all for your help.... you have all been helpful, even if my question are really daft! :D
Daft questions are easy to deal with. It's the clever ones wot gets us confused! :D
anyway im too young for her! :P
You seem to know as much about women as you do about accounting. At least you have come to the right place for advice (about accounting anyway).
Where you say your accounts were audited by a respectable firm of CAs, did you actually have you accounts audited or did they just prepare the accounts?
This is an inportant distinction regarding your choice of future accountants as few maintain audit licences these days.
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 10:03
Newbie, you have fallen victim to the Sage-monster. Try printing out a "Transactional Trial Balance" for the dates of your accounting year, then a "Period Trial Balance" to your year end. Experiment by including or excluding brought forward balances (there's a tick box option). Now take a balance sheet account without too many entries in it - a bank deposit account, or a plant and machinery account, maybe - and compare the differences in the nominal ledger reports (ie all the component figures that make up each balance in those TBs). That way you'll begin to understand the rudiments. Your printouts may vary according to whether or not you went through the year end routine in your accountancy software.
You're not alone in being unable to understand your printouts - most business owners can't either. Come to that many accountants struggle too. Just recently I made a few adjustments to a client's "books" (not Sage, but similar, and HMRC approved software to boot) - just straightforward postings to get payments from the suspense account and into the purchase ledger, and allocate payments to purchase invoices - and then printed out a VAT return. The result was a £1k repayment, which didn't look right to me; so I logged out, logged back in again, ran another VAT return and this time had a £5k repayment, which looked more like it. I haven't figured out whether the rule is that the VAT routine takes no notice of postings in the current session, or whether the glitch occurred because I had pulled up the previous quarter's VAT report prior to running the first (£1k) VAT report for the present quarter. Either way, it ain't supposed to happen, and makes me wonder whether we were all better off with a straightforward set of books: a cash-book, purchase ledger and daybook, and sales ledger and daybook, that didn't try to replicate the entire balance sheet and which business owners (and I) better understood.
Jenni384
19th May 2010, 10:33
Newbie, you have fallen victim to the Sage-monster. Try printing out a "Transactional Trial Balance" for the dates of your accounting year, then a "Period Trial Balance" to your year end. Experiment by including or excluding brought forward balances (there's a tick box option). Now take a balance sheet account without too many entries in it - a bank deposit account, or a plant and machinery account, maybe - and compare the differences in the nominal ledger reports (ie all the component figures that make up each balance in those TBs). That way you'll begin to understand the rudiments. Your printouts may vary according to whether or not you went through the year end routine in your accountancy software.
You're not alone in being unable to understand your printouts - most business owners can't either. Come to that many accountants struggle too. Just recently I made a few adjustments to a client's "books" (not Sage, but similar, and HMRC approved software to boot) - just straightforward postings to get payments from the suspense account and into the purchase ledger, and allocate payments to purchase invoices - and then printed out a VAT return. The result was a £1k repayment, which didn't look right to me; so I logged out, logged back in again, ran another VAT return and this time had a £5k repayment, which looked more like it. I haven't figured out whether the rule is that the VAT routine takes no notice of postings in the current session, or whether the glitch occurred because I had pulled up the previous quarter's VAT report prior to running the first (£1k) VAT report for the present quarter. Either way, it ain't supposed to happen, and makes me wonder whether we were all better off with a straightforward set of books: a cash-book, purchase ledger and daybook, and sales ledger and daybook, that didn't try to replicate the entire balance sheet and which business owners (and I) better understood.
Clear as mud, that! :D
Hang on.... there is a "transactional trial balance" report in Sage?!?! How do you run one of those? Been extracting them manually for years :redface:
Out of interest, what software? (feel free to PM if you'd rather not post it)
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 11:32
Clear as mud, that! :D
Hang on.... there is a "transactional trial balance" report in Sage?!?! How do you run one of those? Been extracting them manually for years :redface:
Out of interest, what software? (feel free to PM if you'd rather not post it)
Hmm I'm still scratching my head: VAT return says £1k refund; log out and back in again and run the VAT return a second time and you get a £5k refund. I only spotted it because output VAT was nil and I'd just allocated a few thousand £'s input VAT on the purchase ledger, so £1k couldn't be right. Not with VAT cash accounting. "What the deuce...!", I said to myself.:eek:
Ahha Transactional TB in Sage: I've found it makes preparing a set of accounts a little easier because I extract Sage data to an ETB in Excel. Isolates the in-date transactions, rather than adapting the cumulative balances on the Period TB. Click in to the Financial module, then click "Reports", and you have the option of either TB under "Trial Balance Reports". You can produce Nominal Activity Reports to match those TBs (under Nominal Module, then "Reports") by including or excluding the b/fwd transactions.:cool:
Umm I'd better not name the culprit software publicly.;)
Jenni384
19th May 2010, 13:12
Thanks WG
Yes, transactional TBs doth a far easier job make! Or something... I also ETB to Excel with them.
I will have a peek at the reports next time I'm in front of Sage (thankfully not very often!). I've got the nominal activity one down, but I've been running a normal TB, then mirroring out the o/bals from the NomAct report by manually extracting them. Works, but somewhat longwinded!:redface:
I'm not even going to attempt to work out what was going on with your VAT return!
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 13:30
You can print off nominal reports with and without the opening balances to make life easier. It once took me yonks to figure out that the current balance figures in the top right hand corner of each nominal account really are the current balances on the day the reports are printed, not at the period end date.
Why doesn't someone produce a spreadsheet that looks like a set of books?
elainec100@cheapaccounting
19th May 2010, 13:32
Why doesn't someone produce a spreadsheet that looks like a set of books?
Because a set of books looks different to each & every person :D
Jenni384
19th May 2010, 13:40
Why doesn't someone produce a spreadsheet that looks like a set of books?
Because I've finished all my P35s and because it's lunchtime... voila!
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c12/mongoose6/spreadsheet.jpg
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 13:46
Because a set of books looks different to each & every person :D
Well I liked them when they were big and red :rolleyes:
elainec100@cheapaccounting
19th May 2010, 13:54
Well I liked them when they were big and red :rolleyes:
well quite :eek::D
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 14:30
Like the big red one on J's bookshelf. Next to Great Expectations. ;)
David Griffiths
19th May 2010, 14:46
Like the big red one on J's bookshelf. Next to Great Expectations. ;)
Accountants do it by the book.
Jenni384
19th May 2010, 14:49
Tisn't my bookshelf actually. :) Well, the Tolleys and the Burroughs is :)
WG - well spotted though :D
Accountants do it by the book.
Auditors don't need a book.
David Griffiths
19th May 2010, 14:58
Auditors don't need a book.
No, they just do it the same way as they did it last year.
elainec100@cheapaccounting
19th May 2010, 15:11
No, they just do it the same way as they did it last year.
but with a different coloured pen and a different tick to create excitement :eek::D:D
Wild Goose
19th May 2010, 15:37
Hey, I've finished all my P35s and it's ummm... well past lunchtime.:redface:
Oh well, voila anyhow!
Newbie22
19th May 2010, 20:22
Hey WG!
Yeah got on the phone to sage support.. the transactional report was wrong as the chap was saying on the phone running it from 1/1/1980 as to date... as it picks everything up, so balances to me were looking wrong. I take everything back about my accountants, deep down I new they were doing their job properly!
Its a good note for all sage users transaction tb is no good to run for a specific period... you have to run the set reports... I have no idea why sage does this! I am gonna move everything over to sage I think... as the in house system is pants for stock etc... worth the money i think WG.
I actually no quite alot about sage! Not bad for someone born in 1982 :D yes yes see I told you lot I young! :P
Cheers for the reply WG! :) Maybe I take you out to dinner instead! imao! :D
Wild Goose
20th May 2010, 09:35
Hey WG!
I am gonna move everything over to sage I think... as the in house system is pants for stock etc... worth the money i think WG.
Take a look at Sage's little sister TASbooks: I find it more user-friendly.
I actually no quite alot about sage! Not bad for someone born in 1982 :D yes yes see I told you lot I young! :P
Ling, is that you? :|
Cheers for the reply WG! :) Maybe I take you out to dinner instead! imao! :D
Ok, but no beanshoots :rolleyes:
Take a look at Sage's little sister TASbooks: I find it more user-friendly.
Suitable for a company turning over £3/4m with stock control?
Wild Goose
20th May 2010, 09:52
I see what you mean - TASbooks seems to be the new name for the old TASbooks1. Our hero would need the old TASbooks3, which I guess has now metamorphosized into TAS's new "TotalAccounts" package.
How tiresome of TAS/Sage: TASbooks was / (still is?) the name of the company! But Cheers for pointing it out Zeno. I'm still using TASbooks3 myself - tried and tested, probably still available on Amazon or E-bay, and no doubt cheaper than this year's rebrand.