View Full Version : PageRank problem
axiaer
14th May 2010, 09:17
A very serious question to all of senior SEO professionals.
i have domain and Google webmaster says i have 585 Backlinks but even after 1 year of domain life we still have 0 PR
Please help me, how to improve site's PR. Need urgent help, first i thought it will take time to get ranking but how much wait i've to wait even more ?
Ibrow Media Ltd
14th May 2010, 09:26
With back links quality and relevancy count more than quantity. You have 2 recognised back links.
Page ranks is not as important as page position.
pickaweb
14th May 2010, 09:31
The quality of the links is very important.
If you are getting links from authorized sites that would really make a difference.
Also the actual anchor tex link is important. If you do have links what text have you got in those links? This should be the keywords you are trying to get a good position for.
WeblinkPlus
14th May 2010, 09:41
PR means nothing. How are you doing for search results?
OldWelshGuy
14th May 2010, 09:53
Page rank is a measuer of Importance (Googles terminology). It is gained by citation form other 'important' pages.
If you have hundreds of smappy links, they might well not be passing page rank. while a single PR5 link could take you to PR3 or even PR4.
Also very often, canonicalisation screws pagerank flow internally. so check that
RedEvo
14th May 2010, 17:01
PR means nothing. How are you doing for search results?
Fox ache, here we go again.
To dismiss PR is folly. To assume PR = rankings for your chosen keywords is equally folly. It's best to understand what PR is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank) and what it isn't.
d
Mr. Mu
14th May 2010, 17:16
.. with what the man with chalkboard equations said. Simple. Dur.:)
An Oasis
14th May 2010, 17:27
Woops that can't be right
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/0/e/a0e11cd17235ba8f80701fe365b9790f.png
l(Pi,Pj) should be l(Pi,Pk);)
WeblinkPlus
14th May 2010, 18:02
A very serious question to all of senior SEO professionals.
i have domain and Google webmaster says i have 585 Backlinks but even after 1 year of domain life we still have 0 PR
Please help me, how to improve site's PR. Need urgent help, first i thought it will take time to get ranking but how much wait i've to wait even more ?
If you're going to spend time getting links from blogs, at least check for nofollow... There's a nice simple add on for firefox that will help - search for nofollow in the addons.
To raise your PR you need good quality links from high PR sites, blog commenting is unlikely to provide that. Try writing a good quality article and getting it published (on a high PR site) with a link back to your site...
Fox ache, here we go again.
To dismiss PR is folly. To assume PR = rankings for your chosen keywords is equally folly. It's best to understand what PR is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank) and what it isn't.
d
Yawn, another pointless argument...:rolleyes:
I do understand PR, but do you think the OP is going to? Better he starts simple, or do you want to use FUD to get him to pay you huge sums to do something inherently simple...?
RedEvo
14th May 2010, 18:23
Yawn, another pointless argument...:rolleyes:
I do understand PR, but do you think the OP is going to? Better he starts simple, or do you want to use FUD to get him to pay you huge sums to do something inherently simple...?
Cheeky ****! I don't take any business from anyone from this forum. I participate to help and do what I can to educate people by offering advice and useful links.
Your last post bleated on about high PR this and high PR that when your first post in this thread stated PR means nothing. If there's a prize for confusing people you've just won it.
d
axiaer
14th May 2010, 20:28
Well my search results are quiet good actually "Back office outsourcing UK" & "Business Process Automation UK" are the two major keywords and are on first position...
I had some doubt about the term "Quality and Relevancy of link"
We can define quality by: good reputation, PR, Links, content and bla bla
But what actually you mean by Relevancy. We provide Outsourcing services majority in UK and Europe, so what could be the most relevant site to back link?
Moreover, i had a discussion with one other SEO expert somewhere in India, and according to him posting a blog comment in even an completely different site for example budhism site be as important as linking to a business outsourcing forum...
This SEO is really a myth, what to do and what no to .... :(
OldWelshGuy
14th May 2010, 21:01
Well my search results are quiet good actually "Back office outsourcing UK" & "Business Process Automation UK" are the two major keywords and are on first position...
I had some doubt about the term "Quality and Relevancy of link"
We can define quality by: good reputation, PR, Links, content and bla bla
But what actually you mean by Relevancy. We provide Outsourcing services majority in UK and Europe, so what could be the most relevant site to back link?
Moreover, i had a discussion with one other SEO expert somewhere in India, and according to him posting a blog comment in even an completely different site for example budhism site be as important as linking to a business outsourcing forum...
This SEO is really a myth, what to do and what no to .... :(
Relevancy put simply means anything that is semantically related.
Google have 2 elements to their algo
1. Importance (which is page rank) and not the silly green bar Page rank either, but actual PR
2. Relevance
but don't take my word for it. http://www.google.com/corporate/tech.html
WeblinkPlus
14th May 2010, 21:18
Cheeky ****! I don't take any business from anyone from this forum. I participate to help and do what I can to educate people by offering advice and useful links.
Apologies for any personal offence - blame it on the government, any government :D
RedEvo
14th May 2010, 21:24
This SEO is really a myth, what to do and what no to .... :(
In simple terms
1. Research your market and understand what people are searching for.
2. Check out how competitve the phrases you have found are (pick your fights).
3. Optimise your pages for the phrases you establish
4. Build links to establish your pages as authority pages
It's not rocket science. The confusion starts when people look for a silver bullet to help them bypass the hard work required.
d
WeblinkPlus
14th May 2010, 21:36
Well my search results are quiet good actually "Back office outsourcing UK" & "Business Process Automation UK" are the two major keywords and are on first position...
According to a quick search in google keyword tool for these two terms you get ~30 searches a day, so if at number one ~15 hits/day max? I do NOT see you as number one for either of those terms. "Back office outsourcing UK" is number three, "Business Process Automation UK" is not found on the first couple of pages.
Relevancy"
OWG explains, though I differ in that I do not believe that relevancy is significant at this time. Any high PR, dofollow link will help with ranking.
crossdaz
14th May 2010, 21:48
The confusion starts when people look for a silver bullet to help them bypass the hard work required.
Never a truer statement made.
axiaer
15th May 2010, 07:10
I totally agree its not a myth, But if you thoroughly go through all the comments in this thread, you'll definitely find strange and drastic contradictions that will end people like me in great confusion that what to do and what not to...
When almost you've done everything for your domain from last 1 year, and still you are on the point, you did it right or wrong?
was all those HIGH PR Sites and blogs were really relevant. In fact above all, Does PR Really justifies the time and investment you've spend on that? .... :(
axiaer
15th May 2010, 07:10
In fact i'm, on this particular topic, using 4 forums for best possible conclusion, but trust me, about 100 SEO guys have replied with most of them "SEO SERVICES" in their signature, giving such opinions....
In fact i'm, on this particular topic, using 4 forums for best possible conclusion, but trust me, about 100 SEO guys have replied with most of them "SEO SERVICES" in their signature, giving such opinions....
I think this is refered to as a "lightbulb" moment!
My advice regarding links (as a starting point) would be to look at your competitors and try to obtain the best backlinks they have. Use the following tools -
www.opensiteexplorer.org and also the Yahoo linkdomain command
Opensiteexplorer will give you a metric to gauge the links and yahoo will generally list the links in order of authority / importance.
You also need to consider the relevancy of the link as well...in my mind the jury is still out on whether it is worth pursuing the off topic ones or not...
PR means nothing.
I have heard this from so many people so many times. Here's a question. If I offered you a link from an authority PR9 website for £20 would you take it? ;)
When I hear this comment I generally point people to this info on Google's website. (The highlighting is mine.)
The software behind our search technology conducts a series of simultaneous calculations requiring only a fraction of a second. Traditional search engines rely heavily on how often a word appears on a web page. We use more than 200 signals, including our patented PageRank™ algorithm, to examine the entire link structure of the web and determine which pages are most important. We then conduct hypertext-matching analysis to determine which pages are relevant to the specific search being conducted. By combining overall importance and query-specific relevance, we're able to put the most relevant and reliable results first.
PageRank Technology: PageRank reflects our view of the importance of web pages by considering more than 500 million variables and 2 billion terms. Pages that we believe are important pages receive a higher PageRank and are more likely to appear at the top of the search results.
PageRank also considers the importance of each page that casts a vote, as votes from some pages are considered to have greater value, thus giving the linked page greater value. We have always taken a pragmatic approach to help improve search quality and create useful products, and our technology uses the collective intelligence of the web to determine a page's importance.
Hypertext-Matching Analysis: Our search engine also analyzes page content. However, instead of simply scanning for page-based text (which can be manipulated by site publishers through meta-tags), our technology analyzes the full content of a page and factors in fonts, subdivisions and the precise location of each word. We also analyze the content of neighboring web pages to ensure the results returned are the most relevant to a user's query.
fisicx
15th May 2010, 20:07
Moreover, i had a discussion with one other SEO expert somewhere in India, and according to him posting a blog comment in even an completely different site for example budhism site be as important as linking to a business outsourcing forum...
WTF! That has got to be the most stupid statement from an 'SEO expert' ever. For starters most blog comments are no follow and those that are have been spammed to death.
One other clarification. PageRank is a ranking signal. The PR score you get on your google spyware bar isn't. It's a bit of pixie dust.
And PageRank doesn't refer to the rank of a page. It is so called after the inventor Larry Page.
WeblinkPlus
15th May 2010, 21:16
One other clarification. PageRank is a ranking signal. The PR score you get on your google spyware bar isn't. It's a bit of pixie dust.
And PageRank doesn't refer to the rank of a page. It is so called after the inventor Larry Page.
No you got it wrong! The experts have said PR is important so it must be so! :rolleyes:
OldWelshGuy
15th May 2010, 22:08
The main problem is that people wrongly think that pagerank is what appears in the silly green toolbar. There is absolutely no question in my mind (and that of some pretty hard hitters at google also), that genuine back end page rank plays a fair part in their ranking algorithm.
People seem to forget that the algo, being a base5 sliding scale algo using over 250 elements,. has millions of possible connotations. nPage rank affects many of these elements, for instance, a High page rank that has backlinks from many other high quality pages, can get away with murder with regard pushing the envelope on SEO.
WeblinkPlus
16th May 2010, 06:28
The main problem is that people wrongly think that pagerank is what appears in the silly green toolbar.
Which do you think the OP was referring to, the ' genuine back end page rank' or the pixie dust?
OldWelshGuy
16th May 2010, 07:03
Which do you think the OP was referring to, the ' genuine back end page rank' or the pixie dust?
No question that he/she was talking about TBPR, as that is the only visible measure.
zigojacko
16th May 2010, 14:25
OP is the same member that was not so longing ago claiming to (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200229&postcount=3) be (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200299&postcount=7) an (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200317&postcount=8) SEO (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=151266)... Here we are a month later and he is asking/discussing basic principles that any professional SEO should be well aware of (once again).
At least the SEO service has been removed from their website now... Other than the SEO link in the footer. Hah
Faevilangel
16th May 2010, 14:31
OP is the same member that was not so longing ago claiming to (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200229&postcount=3) be (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200299&postcount=7) an (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1200317&postcount=8) SEO (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=151266)... Here we are a month later and he is asking/discussing basic principles that any professional SEO should be well aware of (once again).
At least the SEO service has been removed from their website now... Other than the SEO link in the footer. Hah
That is the problem with "seo forums". A lot of people will tell you they are a professional with 20 years experience blah blah blah, but you will find they will ask the most obvious questions...
It's the same for all web professions though, cos someone can read an article and build a site with website builder doesn't make the a website designer.
It's a catch 22, there portfolio looks good and has lots of sites, but do they really know what they are doing?
mattsaw
17th May 2010, 20:00
I take it everyone has read the recent Google patent on the reasonable surfer model (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=7,716,225.PN.&OS=pn/7,716,225&RS=PN/7,716,225) it was filed in 2004 but granted at the start of May.
Basically the a 'value' of a link id derived from factors like the page position of the link, link size, colour, anchor text, the commercial value, surrounding text etc. - i.e a vast departure from the original pagerank algorithm.
zigojacko
17th May 2010, 20:27
I take it everyone has read the recent Google patent on the reasonable surfer model (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=7,716,225.PN.&OS=pn/7,716,225&RS=PN/7,716,225) it was filed in 2004 but granted at the start of May.
Basically the a 'value' of a link id derived from factors like the page position of the link, link size, colour, anchor text, the commercial value, surrounding text etc. - i.e a vast departure from the original pagerank algorithm.
Read this last week, good to see this granted. Bill Slawski's article over at SEO by the Sea (http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3806) on this topic is a great read on this matter. Will be very interesting to see these link value factors playing a larger role in ranking, finally we may see a lot of these larger companies purchasing thousands of links or those participating in black-hat links take a hit in the search engines if perceived as pretty useless, which they are and although "black-hat", "grey-hat", "paid links", "comment spam", "link farms" (etc etc), still appear to be ranking well for the target terms whatever Google's guidelines might say and whether ethical or not!
mattsaw
17th May 2010, 21:14
Will be very interesting to see these link value factors playing a larger role in rankingBear in mind that the patent was originally filed in '04, so it's almost certainly been in use in some form since then or earlier.
I remember a conference a few years ago why a rep from Google said it was easily possible for a large proportion of a sites link profile to be completely ignored, especially in spammer industries where sitewide footer and sidebar links were the norm.
Remember just becase a site has tonnes of spammy links and it ranking well it doesn't mean it's those links that are propping it up, most rankings are down to a few very good quality links - bigger brand sites tend to find it far easier to pick these up.
zigojacko
17th May 2010, 21:58
Bear in mind that the patent was originally filed in '04, so it's almost certainly been in use in some form since then or earlier.
I remember a conference a few years ago why a rep from Google said it was easily possible for a large proportion of a sites link profile to be completely ignored, especially in spammer industries where sitewide footer and sidebar links were the norm.
Remember just becase a site has tonnes of spammy links and it ranking well it doesn't mean it's those links that are propping it up, most rankings are down to a few very good quality links - bigger brand sites tend to find it far easier to pick these up.
Yes but I don't feel it is fully in force by a long shot, I reckon there will be more to come from Google yet but undoubtedly some of the information from the patent will be in play by now.
Yeah I was only using that as an example, analysis of some of my clients competitors leaves me a little bewildered on exactly what factors they are ranking for and I have actually gone through every single backlink and checked all sorts of things, even so though, I look forward to linking value factors being tightened up further still, it's got to be a good thing.
I take it everyone has read the recent Google patent on the reasonable surfer model (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=7,716,225.PN.&OS=pn/7,716,225&RS=PN/7,716,225)
I tried to read it on that site and failed miserably.:(
Here's a more readable version if anyone is interested.
http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3806
Oh and does this put to bed any further claims that PR is of no consequence?
WeblinkPlus
18th May 2010, 06:59
Oh and does this put to bed any further claims that PR is of no consequence?
As has already been well established, my comment was referring to the PR shown in the google toolbar, which is of no consequence and has no significance in page ranking...
That was just a general comment and I wasn't targeting you WLP.
But perhaps I should have added that I don't think we can dismiss Google TBPR as a factor in page ranking, even if it is just an indicator of the approximate actual PR of any given website.
Ok, it may not be an accurate indicator and it may not be up to date but it is the only indicator we have and it does seem to generally represent the PR of a website so IMHO it is of some consequence.
mattsaw
18th May 2010, 08:07
But perhaps I should have added that I don't think we can dismiss Google TBPR as a factor in page ranking, even if it is just an indicator of the approximate actual PR of any given website.
Ok, it may not be an accurate indicator and it may not be up to date but it is the only indicator we have and it does seem to generally represent the PR of a website so IMHO it is of some consequence.
Not quite. Looking at incoming linking root domains of pages and domains as a whole is easily done and is much more closely correlated to rankings than toolbar pagerank.
So tell us about the correlation?
mattsaw
18th May 2010, 09:46
So tell us about the correlation?
http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-science-of-ranking-correlations
Interesting and while it is a bit more scientific it is still theory.
Google have told us several times in the past not to read too much into toolbar PR because it is only an indication of TBPR and one that is infrequently updated. In other words it is not that important but equally I think this means that it should not be totally disregarded. That is my stance for what it is worth.
I am not mathematically or statistically inclined :| so I cannot be bothered struggling to interpret the theoretical data that is presented at SEOMOZ. Having said that, TBPR appears to be largely quite accurate as an indicator. I prefer to use the evidence that I can easily see and I don't see many websites with TBPR of 7,8 and 9 that don't feature highly in the results and that don't get high traffic. Similarly you don't see many websites with TBPR 0 beating them in the rankings. ;)
Yes there are times when it is wildly wrong. This is particularly true when newer websites have had PR allocated and this is not yet reflected in TBPR but I shall continue to use it for what it is ... an indicator that I fully understand is not particularly accurate.
We can go on arguing about its relative worth as others have been doing for last two or three years but like them we are not going to solve anything here. :)
WeblinkPlus
18th May 2010, 10:43
Similarly you don't see many websites with TBPR 0 beating them in the rankings. ;)
Actually... I would love to give examples, but they're adsense sites and I don't want to tell the world about them... Highest is showing PR2, most are PR0 but are still ranking highly against many higher PR sites, not only for targeted keywords.
RedEvo
18th May 2010, 11:02
Actually... I would love to give examples, but they're adsense sites and I don't want to tell the world about them... Highest is showing PR2, most are PR0 but are still ranking highly against many higher PR sites, not only for targeted keywords.
So what? It's been explained many many times in this forum that relevance is the key. Low PR sites ranking higher than high PR sites doesn't mean PR is irrelevant. It means the low PR site is more relevant to the search than high PR sites. PR is neither everything nor nothing ;)
d
mattsaw
18th May 2010, 11:05
Interesting and while it is a bit more scientific it is still theory.
It's not a theory, it's data - facts
I prefer to use the evidence that I can easily see and I don't see many websites with TBPR of 7,8 and 9 that don't feature highly in the results and that don't get high traffic. Similarly you don't see many websites with TBPR 0 beating them in the rankings.
But why is that? It's the old causation arguement all over again.
Do sites rank highly because they have high PR?
Or do they rank highly because they have links from 1,000's of different linking root domains transferring a huge amount of tust and authority - oh and this also gives them a high PR.
People do realise that potentially a site could be a PR6 or 7 with just one link from one site? Which do you think would have more trust - that site, or one with links from 1,000s of site which is also a PR6 or 7?
You said...
Actually... I would love to give examples,
I said...
Similarly you don't see many websites with TBPR 0 beating them in the rankings
Can you show me where we disagree :|
WeblinkPlus
18th May 2010, 14:08
I suspect if I even try and answer I will be censored again... :rolleyes:
I think Mattsaw's links says everything that needs to be said about the pixie dust :p
pickaweb
18th May 2010, 20:08
It is the quality rather than the quantity. Having 1,000's of links from any site is not going to do you any good.
Good planning can make a huge difference.