Blind leading the Blind in Website design

[Ali-v-8]

A number of times I have spoken to people who have no idea what they want when asking for a website. The come expecting answers to no questions.
Knowledge is power.
Before you take on a web designer think about what your website is for.
Browse and find features that you like. Avoid gimmicks as these grow old.
Take notes of what you do and don't like then discuss it prior to signing any agreement.
Here is the tricky part, when asking any company about what you want start from scratch without mentioning what other companies have offered. This way you will see their capabilities and see a common denominator.
See what gets offered and compare. Its very easy to walk from one meeting to another and carry over information from last meeting and influencing the direction of the next.
It may not always be the best information, but as you are the client the next people you speak to will assume you know what you are talking about.
Website designers are not all graphic designers.
Ask to speak to the creative designer and he will give you ideas on look and feel.
Dont buy flash websites unless you have massive massive Howard Hughs budgets to market your website because your Going need it.

Speak to an SEO as soon as possible to help choose the options.
Good optimisers don't just get you ranked high on google.
They improve your conversions too.

Please feel free to add to thread :)

[directmarketingadvice]

Speak to an SEO as soon as possible to help choose the options. Good optimisers don't just get you ranked high on google.
They improve your conversions too.

Yeah? And how do they do that?

Most can't write copy that's worth a damn. Most have never split-tested.

So I don't see why a typical SEO would know more about conversion than a typical web designer.

Steve

[Andy Walpole]

I have a really detailed list of questions that I send to prospective clients and which cover all the main aspects of a job. It helps in giving an accurate quote but also in clarifying what they really want.

At times I think this is too much to ask for somebody - after all, they are still in the sales phrase. I do like to meet prospective clients face-to-face if possible, but some of the questions require a degree of thought and contemplation on the part of the respondent, and they need time to either think about a correct response or to talk to their colleagues.

[Ali-v-8]

Ok its complicating the matter and for the record I will say that PPC management Consultants like Steve here will also create pages that will have massive positive effects on conversions.
My point was not to promote SEO but to promote direction of a website.
I am beginning to agree with Fisicx a lot lately.:|
Sites are being built for google.

I will say this. My clients get better conversions on yahoo and Bing. Low traffic but much better conversions.



Yeah? And how do they do that?

Most can't write copy that's worth a damn. Most have never split-tested.

So I don't see why a typical SEO would know more about conversion than a typical web designer.

Steve

[sirearl]

So I don't see why a typical SEO would know more about conversion than a typical web designer.

Steve

Different ethos ones about making money the other is about making websites.

Earl

[ComputerCoders]

I see too many SEO consultants driving traffic to poor landing pages. Sort out the web design first or, at least, during or as part of the SEO campaign.

[fisicx]

Different ethos ones about making money the other is about making websites.
I'd say they have complementary ethoses (is that a word).

Whilst an SEO can sort out your ranking a good webdesigner can ensure that people actually buy stuff when they land.

Take a holistic view and get the visitors and the conversions.

[ComputerCoders]

I'd say they have complementary ethoses (is that a word).

Whilst an SEO can sort out your ranking a good webdesigner can ensure that people actually buy stuff when they land.

Take a holistic view and get the visitors and the conversions.

In essence you need the web designer and the SEO to both do a good job or the overall online strategy will fail.

[An Oasis]

My clients get better conversions on yahoo and Bing. Low traffic but much better conversions.

I'm surprised that many people know about Bing and as for traffic...We've got pole position for hundreds of key phrases the Safety Scene listing in TES brings in more than Live, MSN & Bing combined - people in the UK don't use any of those engines.

[dots and spots Jeff]

I'd say they have complementary ethoses (is that a word).


I think that should be ethoi

reference (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ethoi)

pedantically yours!

Jeff

[directmarketingadvice]

I am beginning to agree with Fisicx a lot lately.:|
Sites are being built for google.

That's fair enough. If site structure is an important part of SEO, an SEO should be expected to know about that... because it's part of SEO.

However... conversions aren't a part of SEO.

So, while being an SEO doesn't preclude someone from knowing about writing persuasive copy or which layouts, graphics and page elements tend to increase conversion, these things are not part of SEO (which is about getting rankings) so we shouldn't assume an SEO has these skills/knowledge.

Steve

PS Just for the record, I'm not convinced web designers tend to know about these things either. I just don't see why they should know less about them than an SEO does.

[fisicx]

That's the whole crux of the matter. Building an effective (ie converting) website requires a number of skills. Unfortunately there is still a belief that a pretty layout is all you need and that marketing is something you can bolt on afterwards.

Research, site planning, architecture, information chunking, copywriting, usability, accessibility, marketing and a whole long list more. The actual layout is the bit you do right at the end.

[mobyme]

That's the whole crux of the matter. Building an effective (ie converting) website requires a number of skills. Unfortunately there is still a belief that a pretty layout is all you need and that marketing is something you can bolt on afterwards.

Research, site planning, architecture, information chunking, copywriting, usability, accessibility, marketing and a whole long list more. The actual layout is the bit you do right at the end.

Excellent post.

[sirearl]

That's the whole crux of the matter. Building an effective (ie converting) website requires a number of skills. Unfortunately there is still a belief that a pretty layout is all you need and that marketing is something you can bolt on afterwards.

Research, site planning, architecture, information chunking, copywriting, usability, accessibility, marketing and a whole long list more. The actual layout is the bit you do right at the end.

Quite agree but fact is that there are SEO's who may be excellent at getting rankings ,and SEO's that understand the whole gamut of internet marketing.


Earl

[cmcp]

That's the whole crux of the matter. Building an effective (ie converting) website requires a number of skills. Unfortunately there is still a belief that a pretty layout is all you need and that marketing is something you can bolt on afterwards.

Research, site planning, architecture, information chunking, copywriting, usability, accessibility, marketing and a whole long list more. The actual layout is the bit you do right at the end.
Not to be pedantic, but that statement is completely wrong. Styling the layout might be the last part, but wireframing is intrinsic to usability and information architecture both of which you've listed as a fundemental building block of a site.

[fisicx]

Agree. By layout I meant the production of the stylesheet. It should be possible to produce a functional site without worrying about the colours, fonts, margins, padding and even position of the elements. As you say, usability, information architecture and even UX are fundamental parts of the site design.

[cmcp]

UX is colours, fonts, margins, padding. Usability is placement of the elements.

You can't bolt on design any less than you can't bolt on marketing.

[ComputerCoders]

UX is colours, fonts, margins, padding. Usability is placement of the elements.

You can't bolt on design any less than you can't bolt on marketing.

Allow me to simplify the difference between UX and Usability. If UX is the journey then Usability is the signs. IA is the roads/streets.

[Silky]

As a consumer, I first have to find the site (google all the way), it then has to convince me it's not some amateur outfit . An impression is made within the first minute and it's the design that does it. There are so many websites that may well rate well in SEO terms, but look like they've been designed by a school boy in his lunch hour.....sorry, but not convincing and I won't stick around to read the copy, you don't find the crown jewels in a Tesco carrier bag...

Silky

[ComputerCoders]

As a consumer, I first have to find the site (google all the way), it then has to convince me it's not some amateur outfit . An impression is made within the first minute and it's the design that does it. There are so many websites that may well rate well in SEO terms, but look like they've been designed by a school boy in his lunch hour.....sorry, but not convincing and I won't stick around to read the copy, you don't find the crown jewels in a Tesco carrier bag...

Silky

I agree content and style are equally important. Anyone who says that you can't have both just hasn't found a way yet. Sure all Flash for the main site can be bad but why not have all Flash for a separate buzz site?

[sirearl]

As a consumer, I first have to find the site (google all the way), it then has to convince me it's not some amateur outfit . An impression is made within the first minute and it's the design that does it. .

Silky

Rubbish its if the site has the what the visitor is looking for.

amateur is very acceptable on the web.:)

But not satisfying the visitors needs is not.

Earl

[Silky]

Rubbish its if the site has the what the visitor is looking for.

amateur is very acceptable on the web.:)

But not satisfying the visitors needs is not.

Earl

I've explained how I personally find suppliers, it's not rubbish, it's my own experience. IF it was rubbish, why on earth would anyone spend any money on design? I'd have no idea if the site had what I was looking for because I wouldn't be remotely tempted to look further. (I don't disagree about providing the right products by the way, but that's not what this thread is about).

If anything I'm even more critical when buying for business, if a company can't be a*sed to spend resource (time or money) on their own site then it speaks volumes to me I'm afraid and I'd be wondering if the site or company would be still there the next day.

Silky

[sirearl]

I've explained how I personally find suppliers, it's not rubbish, it's my own experience. IF it was rubbish, why on earth would anyone spend any money on design?

Silky


Because high priced designers tell em to.:)

Having one of our sites many times been voted one of the worst site on the web by various expert design panels.

I often wonder how it manages to turn over 40 million a year.( but not a lot :rolleyes: )

No1 this week.

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/worst-business-web-sites-of-2009.html#axzz0nmVFfEnm

Earl

[Silky]

Might turn over a lot more with improved design...;)

The guy behind the Ugliest Site website should think about featuring his own, it's certainly high in the stakes where "bland" is concerned.

Silky

[fisicx]

UX is colours, fonts, margins, padding. Usability is placement of the elements.
Disagree here but it may be just in the understanding of what you mean.

User experience defines a sequence of interactions between a user and a system while also satisfying systems requirements and organizational objectives.

Usability is the study of the ease with which people can employ a particular tool or other human-made object in order to achieve a particular goal.

Yes the layout or theme is part of these but not the primary feature.

[cmcp]

I thought you were implying that you can get a site up without the colours, fonts, margins, padding and positioning - and suggesting that site would consider usability, IA and UX.

Agree. By layout I meant the production of the stylesheet. It should be possible to produce a functional site without worrying about the colours, fonts, margins, padding and even position of the elements. As you say, usability, information architecture and even UX are fundamental parts of the site design.

I was pointing out that colours, fonts, margins, padding all make up the UX, and positioning is key to the usability.

It might be my misunderstanding of what you meant first time round.

[bdw]

amateur is very acceptable on the web
This may be partly true on B2C websites but certainly not on B2B websites. Having said that, I personally would not deal with any business with a crappy, amateur website. To me it is a tell tale sign.

Incidentally I am not saying that a website needs to be flashy and futuristic (esp in B2B). A simple, plain design is sufficient in most circumstances.

[fisicx]

Define amatuer website?

If the local plumber has a old van with his clip art logo would you ignore him in favour of the flashy fleet of wrapped vehilces?

Why do we have double standards when it comes to online activities? If you base your opinions of a business on the quality of its logo then you are a salemans dream, swayed by the slick presentation rather than the quality of product or service on offer.

[Mike1986]

Define amatuer website?

If the local plumber has a old van with his clip art logo would you ignore him in favour of the flashy fleet of wrapped vehilces?

Why do we have double standards when it comes to online activities? If you base your opinions of a business on the quality of its logo then you are a salemans dream, swayed by the slick presentation rather than the quality of product or service on offer.

I'm not entirely sure that we do have double standards.

You make an interesting point, but the sad reality is that many people would ignore the local plumber in favour of the flashy fleet of wrapped vehicles...

... And that's not the only analogy we can make. Think of the places people do their shopping - why would somebody shop at Waitrose instead of happy shopper? Both stores will sell exactly the same brands and products, yet most people would far sooner get their groceries from Waitrose.

The Waitrose shop assistant may be mean spiteful, whereas the guy in happy shopper could be the friendliest person on earth - it won't change anything. People will go with what's easier on the eyes (if they can afford it)...

Just one of those things I suppose.

[bdw]

If you base your opinions of a business on the quality of its logo then you are a salemans dream,
But I don't.

[fisicx]

Then why does the quality of their website matter? If they offer the product or services you want at a reasonable price does it matter if they have a cutsy animated picture of a bunny in the corner or use comic-sans and have acounter in the footer?

For some people the layout of a website is more important than the content. They will pay more for a product becuase the website look nice. As you said:

" I personally would not deal with any business with a crappy, amateur website. To me it is a tell tale sign."

Tell tale sign of what?

[directmarketingadvice]

If you base your opinions of a business on the quality of its logo then you are a salemans dream

If you're saying the "quality" of a logo - which I guess must just mean "the logo" - doesn't matter, then the best advice re. getting a logo must be to get the cheapest logo you can get.

swayed by the slick presentation rather than the quality of product or service on offer.

If you're buying something you've never bought before, how do you know what "quality" it has?

For example, if you're searching on google to find an accountant, then you're not going to contact the best accountant. You're going to contact the accountant who does the best job of convincing you they're the best.

i.e. you're buying into the way they present themselves.

That's why the most successful accountant in town is rarely the one that's the best accountant. It's far more likely to be the one that's the best salesman/marketer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: people don't buy because of your product or service, they buy because of what they believe about your product or service.

Which is why you can take the same product or service, the same price, the same t&c and, just by re-writing the sales message, increase sales by 100%, 200%, 500%, 1,000%.

Steve

[bdw]

Well said Steve.

Tell tale sign of what?

Standards.

[fisicx]

@Steve,

I get what you are saying and agree 100%. But even a slick presentation will fail if the copy fails to convince. People will forgive an iffy layout if the content is convincing. If your headline can convince them that the service is worth considering the eye candy no longer matters.

@BDW

What standards? Yours are different to mine. Does the inclusion of a JS rollover menu indicate professionalism or an amatuer?

[bdw]

You asked the question and I replied. What more can I do? We don't have to agree on this you know. It's just a wee debate. ;)

[fisicx]

I get that. Its just that if I asked you the difference between an amatuer and 'professional' site what would your answer be? What are the standards that define the quality of a website?

[bdw]

There are none. It is totally subjective.

[ComputerCoders]

It's comparative with other websites in a given genre or industry sector I'd say. You only really need to be slightly better than someone else from a business perspective.

[Dawg]

People will forgive an iffy layout if the content is convincingPeople won't read the content if the layout is bad. Subjective, yes, but unless some credibility is instantly gained by colour, shape, font size etc a proportion of viewers will click away before examining content.
Layout and design are in effect packaging, packaging a website, and packaging does work: it increases sales.

The core product has to be OK too, as does the SEO, the copy, the price, the perceived value etc. But the design is not a poor cousin* to all this, but an equal partner.

*Despite the endeavours of some 'designers' to use the modish and the gaudy rather than the attractive and the effective. God bless their little hairless chins and visible underwear...

[sirearl]

The core product has to be OK too, as does the SEO, the copy, the price, the perceived value etc. But the design is not a poor cousin* to all this, but an equal partner.



hardly laddie more things in heaven and earth to make a successful online business.

hence design is a very small part of the cost of creating a business thats earning a few bob.

marketing will be 100's of times the cost of a website in many cases.

Earl

[Dawg]

hardly laddie more things in heaven and earth to make a successful online business.

hence design is a very small part of the cost of creating a business thats earning a few bob.

marketing will be 100's of times the cost of a website in many cases.

Earl

I'm sure you are right. And I'll quote you on it, to you probably, next time you give us one of your all encompassing statements like:

"It's all in the price"
"only the product matters"

[fisicx]

People won't read the content if the layout is bad. Subjective, yes, but unless some credibility is instantly gained by colour, shape, font size etc a proportion of viewers will click away before examining content.
Yup agree. Doesn't have to be perfect though, as long as it's not a dogs dinner people aren't going to worry too much is the blue shade doesn't exactly match the red underlining.

This is why simple is more effective. The more eyecandy you use the greater the chance that someone will be put off. But keep things clean with the minumum of imagery and effects then the content not the layout takes centre stage.

[Dawg]

Dog's dinner?
:)

[Ali-v-8]

I think most of you must agree that the look and feel of website also depends on the product or service.
Example: websites that sell new cars need to be flashy and glossy. Where as car parts website needs to be more organised. Car valeting needs to be informative and show coverage. Car leasing needs to be competitive and show availability.
I am only pointing out a few examples that are in the motor industry.

Look and feel is decided by the industry. It influences designs.
But there is one website that i can say looks well out there.
Own by the infamous Ling and marketed by Sir earl

Goes to show that its all about price and product

[directmarketingadvice]

@Steve,

I get what you are saying and agree 100%. But even a slick presentation will fail if the copy fails to convince.

I agree.

People will forgive an iffy layout if the content is convincing. If your headline can convince them that the service is worth considering the eye candy no longer matters.


That's a lot for a headline to achieve.

I've split-tested designs and layouts. Result: they make a hell of a difference.

Even something as simple as moving the "add to cart" button can make a big difference. IMO, that proves that whether or not someone will buy isn't just about the copy (or the product or the price), but also about other things on the page. (And where they are on the page.)

Steve

PS If anyone wants an idea of how much difference you can get just from moving stuff around, click the first item in my sig.

[directmarketingadvice]

But there is one website that i can say looks well out there. Own by the infamous Ling and marketed by Sir earl

Goes to show that its all about price and product

That seems to assume that site converts better than its competitors. Is there really any way of knowing that's the case?

(Unless competitors are sharing data with you.)

Steve

[sirearl]

I'm sure you are right. And I'll quote you on it, to you probably, next time you give us one of your all encompassing statements like:

"It's all in the price"
"only the product matters"

Of course I am right.;)

so you buy things without knowing what they are at any price.interesting.:p

Earl

[Dawg]

Of course I am right.;)

so you buy things without knowing what they are at any price.interesting.:p

Earl

You are of course right.
The Sage of Saga is never wrong.
Obtuse, certainly. Obdurate, without fail. Contradictory, perverse and mulish, often.
But wrong? One's elders are never wrong, just on the incorrect dosage.

[sirearl]

You are of course right.
The Sage of Saga is never wrong.
Obtuse, certainly. Obdurate, without fail. Contradictory, perverse and mulish, often.
But wrong? One's elders are never wrong, just on the incorrect dosage.

much easier to just say "highly experienced" and save all that ink.;)

Earl

[Colin Parker]

In summary - the headline of this thread is correct in 90%+ of cases.

Colin Parker

[papverpoppies]

That's the whole crux of the matter. Building an effective (ie converting) website requires a number of skills. Unfortunately there is still a belief that a pretty layout is all you need and that marketing is something you can bolt on afterwards.

Research, site planning, architecture, information chunking, copywriting, usability, accessibility, marketing and a whole long list more. The actual layout is the bit you do right at the end.

I do feel sorry for anyone wanting a website though.
There is another thread on here about wanting a site, and several people have replied 'I can do it, I have built xxx amounts etc etc' - some have been shot down and their web design skills left open to question.

How does the person wanting a site, know all of this?

They do not know anything about SEO (I only know from what I read on here) most folk think a 'pretty site' will bring in the customers.

I say this (and I am not pointing the finger at anyone) but it is easy money and like taking candy from a baby when some folks design websites.

I wonder how many useless websites there are out their?

It seems like the World and his Wife are all website designers.

Poppy xx

[sirearl]

I wonder how many useless websites there are out their?

It seems like the World and his Wife are all website designers.

Poppy xx

Not sure about useless,but if they are not on page 1 of the search engines they will be limited in there viability as a retail business.

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

No matter how blind you are you can still listen.......or can you?

When you get told some thing about a subject, ask your self, how much does that comment influence your next move or next step.
I spend time going over details step by step using check lists, but sometimes a client ask me to do some thing that is a complete waste of time. I have three choices.
1) Do as they say, waste their money then hear them complain.
2) Ignore their request and try to explain why.
3) drop them as clients, let them go to some one else, let them lose the cash, sign them back up at a higher fee.

Doing number 1 is easy. But wrong.
Doing number two is what I usually end up convincing them to do.
Option three has happened with a debt management company.

Ultimately, You have knowledge and that knowledge is there to bet utilised to make money.

What the client must understand is that you are a business. You will make a mark up on the creation on the website. You wont be as cheap as a company in India who's average wage is £30 a week (rich guy)
Which unfortunately brings us to the main deciding factor.

$$$$ :D PRICE :D $$$$

[bdw]

I do feel sorry for anyone wanting a website though.
If you are seeking a website designer then forums are probably not the best place to look for one. Most forums have a high percentage of part timers, fly by nights and people of questionable ability. They lurk around for a while but they probably won't be around in six month's time having moved on to their next get rich quick scheme.

When you think about, if someone has to frequent a forum looking for scraps it means that they are unable to generate enough work through their own websites. This means that are probably not very good at search engine optimisation. That does not augur well for anything they would do for you.

So get onto Google and look for your designer. They don't have to be local. This can all be done via telephone and email. We have never met most of our clients and in some ways written instructions are preferable to notes taken at a meeting. There's less chance of them being misinterpreted.

There are three basic things that matter most when you are looking for a web designer. You need to know if they have suitable experience in what you need, if they have satisified clients and what they are likely to charge. Order them to suit yourself but IMHO testimonials are very important.


Portfolio: Ensure that your proposed designer has verifiable examples and experience of the type of site that you require.
Testimonials: Ensure that he or she has verifiable testimonials. By "verifiable" I mean from real people who can be identified and contacted if necessary. Most people who are pleased with their web designer's work will be happy to offer a testimonial so don't be scared to ask them.
Cost: The cost of the website will be a factor in most cases. Because of the number of variables in a website specification it can be difficult to display prices but most designers will be happy to offer an indication of their charges by listing some examples. Don't waste their time or yours by contacting them if they are outside your budget. If they don't show their prices they will probably bee to expensive anyway.
If you stick with this you won't go far wrong. Best of luck. :).
.
.

[Ali-v-8]

I agree with most of what you say except for the price.
Price can be a lure or a disadvantage.
Example
On your website you say prices "from" £250.
You get lots of enquiries.
The person then wants e-commerce, Photos, CMS....etc.
That £250 then become £2,500.

How many people who come to your company expecting a website to cost £250 and walking away with a quote of £2,500 will you retain.

I like to see what my client wants then give him a price.




Portfolio: Ensure that your proposed designer has verifiable examples and experience of the type of site that you require.
Testimonials: Ensure that he or she has verifiable testimonials. By "verifiable" I mean from real people who can be identified and contacted if necessary. Most people who are pleased with their web designer's work will be happy to offer a testimonial so don't be scared to ask them.
Cost: The cost of the website will be a factor in most cases. Because of the number of variables in a website specification it can be difficult to display prices but most designers will be happy to offer an indication of their charges by listing some examples. Don't waste their time or yours by contacting them if they are outside your budget. If they don't show their prices they will probably bee to expensive anyway.

.[/QUOTE]

[sirearl]

There are three basic things that matter most when you are looking for a web designer. You need to know if they have suitable experience in what you need, if they have satisified clients and what they are likely to charge. Order them to suit yourself but IMHO testimonials are very important.


Portfolio: Ensure that your proposed designer has verifiable examples and experience of the type of site that you require.
Testimonials: Ensure that he or she has verifiable testimonials. By "verifiable" I mean from real people who can be identified and contacted if necessary. Most people who are pleased with their web designer's work will be happy to offer a testimonial so don't be scared to ask them.
Cost: The cost of the website will be a factor in most cases. Because of the number of variables in a website specification it can be difficult to display prices but most designers will be happy to offer an indication of their charges by listing some examples. Don't waste their time or yours by contacting them if they are outside your budget. If they don't show their prices they will probably bee to expensive anyway.

If you stick with this you won't go far wrong. Best of luck. :).
.
.

you certainly can.:eek:

most important thing by a long way is that you have a website that people visit .:D

Earl

[bdw]

most important thing by a long way is that you have a website that people visit

Perhaps to you but I have to disagree. This is only important if your business depends on website traffic. Many businesses only require a website presence. Their websites are normally just online brochures that are convenient for showing information to existing customers and clients. On my enquiry form I explain what SEO means and ask people if they need this. Probably about thirty percent say no.

Locally focussed businesses like hairdressers, lawyers, pubs and restaurants seldom rely much on website traffic. They get their customers by reputation and word of mouth.

[bdw]

How many people who come to your company expecting a website to cost £250 and walking away with a quote of £2,500 will you retain.

Ok, but it's not that difficult to explain your pricing structure in a way that makes this unlikely. You need to say more than "Websites from £250". ;)

When looking at prices, most people are astute enough to see the word "from" as a warning sign. :eek:

[sirearl]

Perhaps to you but I have to disagree. This is only important if your business depends on website traffic. Many businesses only require a website presence. Their websites are normally just online brochures that are convenient for showing information to existing customers and clients. On my enquiry form I explain what SEO means and ask people if they need this. Probably about thirty percent say no.

Locally focussed businesses like hairdressers, lawyers, pubs and restaurants seldom rely much on website traffic. They get their customers by reputation and word of mouth.


Are you insane.:p

So no one visits your website.?:|

Having a website that has no visitors ,seems a waste of time and money to me.:)

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Totally agree. The problem is that the blind don't understand the term "from" as being a start point.

Ok, but it's not that difficult to explain your pricing structure in a way that makes this unlikely. You need to say more than "Websites from £250". ;)

When looking at prices, most people are astute enough to see the word "from" as a warning sign. :eek:

[bdw]

Are you insane.
Perhaps a bit flaky at times and getting on in years but according to popular opinion I don't think I am insane. :p

So no one visits your website.?
Did I say that? Actually I have had about 9000 uniques in the last month. That provides me with more than enough business.

Having a website that has no visitors ,seems a waste of time and money to me.
I did say "perhaps to you" and I did not say anything about these websites having "no visitors". What I am talking about are websites designed for purpose and serving this purpose.

[KM-Tiger]

What I am talking about are websites designed for purpose and serving this purpose.

Which is a fair point.

Not everyone engaged in business sells widgets via a website with shouty "CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!" page titles.

As said above, the brochure type site which is aimed at only a few visitors, might nevertheless be of great value to the business that commissions it. Not because it attracts a million page views via Google, but because it lends credibility to a business selling high value services, for instance.

[directmarketingadvice]

most important thing by a long way is that you have a website that people visit .:D

And there are many ways for people to find websites that have nothing to do with the way a website is designed.

If someone is driving their business primarily by PR, what they need is a site that has a design that pleases their visitors, a strong sales message and layout/usability that maximises sales.

And this "let's pander to the google algorithm" stuff wouldn't matter.

Steve

[estwig]

My first website, which was designed by the wonderful Jilly of 10yetis fame, was almost designed not to be found. It was purely to back up far more lucrative forms of marketing besides people finding me via the interweb. At the time the last thing I wanted was random nutters finding me on the interweb and pestering me for a quote.

Horses for courses, innit!!

:)

[sirearl]

Roll up special cheap SEO for people who do not want to be found on the internet.

Guaranteed success for every client or ten times your money back.:p

I hear what people are saying and for a small business that has a high value product a few clicks a week might do it.

But the majority of internet sites want loads and loads of traffic.;)

Earl

[bdw]

You need to pay attention. No one ever claimed anything else. :p

[sirearl]

You need to pay attention. No one ever claimed anything else. :p

Probably.:|:)

It must be those cheap pills I take.;)

I suspect its not a good idea to take Tesco's specials for senile dementia

Earl

[papverpoppies]

Probably.:|:)

It must be those cheap pills I take.;)

I suspect its not a good idea to take Tesco's specials for senile dementia

Earl

Depends on how many bottles of pills you drink a day!;)

Its getting the balance between falling down in the gutter - and singing merrily to yourself - right!

Poppy xx