Any use for tables with css? (Mac please reply ;))

[YMW]

Actually while on the subject of css (re the post below), can I ask Mac and all the other designers, do you use or think it is acceptable to use tables at all or do you prefer using css for ALL layout instead of tables. I don't just mean for eg a 3 column website using css instead of tables but what about if you wanted to display 3 rows of 3 thumbnails-would you use tables or css?
I have been reading a lot about css and can use a style sheet for 'style' and think I have tweaked a 2 column style sheet the way I want it and now that it comes to adding content it seems a shame to start throwing tables in there, or is that what you do??

[mattk]

Tables are ideal for displaying data is a tabulated format!

I think it's about the right tools for the job. Something like a 3x3 grid would be easy in a table so why not use it.

[Coding Monkey]

Is my opinion that valued?

What Matt said and... I wouldn't design a website in tables, I also wouldn't use a designer who used tables, because of the excess code, difficulty in understanding it (when you have many tables over each other, and inside of each other) and because I prefer fluid content. But, of course I still use them. A calendar, for example, just doesn't make sense to use anything but tables.

[JustOneUK]

This is a phpbb forum, it is collectively made by the BEST script writers on the internet, it is used by some of the best companies, best webmasters, best of everything.....

and if you look at the source code... it uses tables.

can we lay css design to rest now? tables are fine.

<CSS>RIP</CSS>

[Coding Monkey]

And how old is phpBB? How long ago was it created, for which they carried on the development of it? I know it's at least 6 years old. I won't bother looking to see how far it goes back.

I would STRONGLY disagree about them being the BEST in the world. I used to talk to one of the main developers every day. What is his job for a living? Oh, it was a photographer.

Let's use your argument again. Firefox, one of the biggest open-source pieces of software on the planet. Using the supposed BEST programmers, designers and coffee makers. What does their website use? Oh, gosh, CSS!

Also, At Media - a conference for web development, design and standards within the UK. To quote: "@media, Europe's foremost professional web design conference, brings together some of the world's most highly respected web experts to talk about the latest major happenings, best-practice thinking, and cutting-edge techniques in the world of web design." Strange that they don't use tables.

phpBB uses tables because they are TABULAR data. Designing a site in tables and designing tabular data in tables is far from the same thing.

[crus]

Hi,

Design does go in fads, but this time the driver is the platform that the content is being rendered to. No longer is this a one browser world, and hard though my addiction is tables for layout are gone!

CSS is funny, it seems really alien, then seems really natural.

D

[DuaneJackson]

The phpBB argument doesn't hold water.

Assuming the developers are collectively the best in their field - they'be the best at PHP coding (and even that's questionable if you've ever read much of the source). This is a totally different area of experise to code for layout.

CSS/XHTML is the way forward for rendering content to screen in a consistent manner safe in the kowledge that if you comply to standards it will render correctly on all platforms. And if it doesn't, then it's a problem with the parser, not the content.

The standard HTML that has underpinned the web for the last decade or so is just not strictly defined enough to even attempt to offer the same degree of portability.

[Enigma121]

I prefer a little more balanced approach. Tables for layout is simply an old style for site structure. The new style is XHTML and CSS. This itself has some disadantages, as older browsers and some embedded devices don't support the latest standards XHTML and CSS, so it depends on your target market.

Table layout isn't the way forward for the majority of new sites, but there is an an awful lot of code out there that was written before the new standards were introduced.

We can and do use either style where it's appropriate, this is a quality to look for when you consider maintenance of legacy applications.

I also agree that at table is absolutely the right way to display say a series of data rows on a page, so can and should be used every time for the proper application that the tag was intended for.

[YMW]

Thanks for all the replies, Matt you make good sense! I am relieved :)

Is my opinion that valued?

.

:oops: I suppose so, I just get the impression you know what you are talking about, and actually your replies on this thread prove it.
No that isn't right-what I mean is you sound like you know what you are on about and your replies on this thread further support my impression!

[DuaneJackson]

Don't tell him I told you, but he PMs me for the answers and I give them to him to post :)

[Coding Monkey]

:D Naughty boy, Duane.

[webit]

Whats a good open source or freeware editor for creating a CSS styled page (I use TopStyle, Ultradev4, textpad etc but I've always used tables.)

CSS positioning seems like hard work but I'd like to play.

[creospace]

CSS positioning seems like hard work but I'd like to play.

In one respect it is but it's worth the hassel in the long run, it's lot of work upfront and then plain sailing for the rest of the life of the site. And there lies an issue, many aren't prepared to put the hard slog in at the start to make gains later which is a little short sited.

My basic rule is:

Forms and mysql rowed output - tables

Everything else xhtml/css

[webit]

I've just being playing with Amaya (the w3c editor) anyone a user?