Chapman Copy and Design - another review..

[Danny@BFC]

I thought I'd give a quick mention of a UKBF members service's I have recently used, Scott-CopyandDesign.

I approached Scott asking him to quote for writing some sales copy for my homepage, something I had wanted to do for a while but kept putting it off :rolleyes:.

Scott came back with a quote which included also rewriting and tweaking 2 other pages of my site (on his recommendation) and some details of what he would do.

The quote for all 3 pages was very reasonable - actually less than I had expected to pay for the 1 page (based on a previous experience with a copywriter - which is what I think was putting me off!)

Within a few days Scott had the first draft to me and just needed some very minor changes (it was pretty much perfect)...certain wording I couldn't use due to being a charities corporate sponsor - which I hadnt told him.

Scott made the changes and forwarded this to me with a full breakdowm showing me exactly how to format this copy on my site.

All in all Scott was fantastic - not only the copy he provided but the service as a whole, I'd highly recommend him to anyone looking for a copywriter.

The copy is not up as yet as I am doing another:rolleyes: redesign so I can't comment on increase in conversion. However Scott has worded my product in a very readable way that flows really well with good calls to action and describes it perfectly - it took him less than 5 days to do what I hadn't managed with my own product in a year - I know it will have a positive affect.

Good work that man!

Scotts website http://www.chapmancopyanddesign.co.uk/


cheers

danny

,

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Why thank you Danny :). It was a very interesting and unique product to write about and I hope it works wonders for you.

[G. Lasagne]

Well done scott, I think his copy will work wonders for your product, however i have learnt that the salesy copy style only works for certain products, with trades i think it puts people off, in fact i know it does, everything i hear and read suggests so, and thus the drop in conversions since changing my copy, with a local business people want local relaible companies that live around the corner, i think lockie (think it was lockie) mentioned a marketing seminar where the crappy leaflet out performed the all singing all dancing one, by 2 to 1.
Also a friend of mine (aerial installation) said that the response form leaflets that he printed off himslef was mucg better than the professional ones., so this is the way my marketing is going now, more local and friendly orientated, than salesy marketing style.

I want to clarify that i think scott did do an excellent job, but unfortunately my service wasnt the right service for the copy, so im now in the process of re-writing the copy again.

I think Danny's product is absoloutely perfect for scotts copy and will no doubt be successful:)

[MASSEY]

But you have made the same mistake as g.lasagne reviewing before you can measure the rates of conversion, :D

[RBS]

Whats the difference between traditional copy writer and SEO copy writer? Can anybody explain why usual copy writer cannot write for web?

[directmarketingadvice]

Whats the difference between traditional copy writer and SEO copy writer? Can anybody explain why usual copy writer cannot write for web?

Interesting questions. Probably worth a thread of its own.

(I have some points to make about "SEO copywriters", but I don't want to take Danny/Scott's thread off topic.)

Steve

[Signify_1]

Well done scott, I think his copy will work wonders for your product, however i have learnt that the salesy copy style only works for certain products, with trades i think it puts people off, in fact i know it does, everything i hear and read suggests so, and thus the drop in conversions since changing my copy, with a local business people want local relaible companies that live around the corner, i think lockie (think it was lockie) mentioned a marketing seminar where the crappy leaflet out performed the all singing all dancing one, by 2 to 1.
Also a friend of mine (aerial installation) said that the response form leaflets that he printed off himslef was mucg better than the professional ones., so this is the way my marketing is going now, more local and friendly orientated, than salesy marketing style.

I want to clarify that i think scott did do an excellent job, but unfortunately my service wasnt the right service for the copy, so im now in the process of re-writing the copy again.

I think Danny's product is absoloutely perfect for scotts copy and will no doubt be successful:)

Hi G. Lasagne
Are you sure you have given the sales copy enough time? How do you know it's not just a slow time of the year for your business? Obviously I don't know your industry so i won't know the times of year which tend to slow down but I know with my current industry things are a bit slow at the moment and I'd guess no sales copy no matter how good it is would have much of a difference if nobody wants my service at the moment, would be the same with any business.

Just a thought

Taz

[Mystro]

Well done scott, I think his copy will work wonders for your product, however i have learnt that the salesy copy style only works for certain products, with trades i think it puts people off, in fact i know it does, everything i hear and read suggests so, and thus the drop in conversions since changing my copy, with a local business people want local relaible companies that live around the corner, i think lockie (think it was lockie) mentioned a marketing seminar where the crappy leaflet out performed the all singing all dancing one, by 2 to 1.
Also a friend of mine (aerial installation) said that the response form leaflets that he printed off himslef was mucg better than the professional ones., so this is the way my marketing is going now, more local and friendly orientated, than salesy marketing style.

I want to clarify that i think scott did do an excellent job, but unfortunately my service wasnt the right service for the copy, so im now in the process of re-writing the copy again.

I think Danny's product is absoloutely perfect for scotts copy and will no doubt be successful:)

I would respond to this as both true and premature in the same breath

Scott wrote my sales copy for both my sites one stayed exactly the same the other dropped massivly in its conversions

Or so i thought initially

The site i thought i lost the rankings on was measured over a period that was seasonaly slow which i did not take into account, also the sales blurb tempory lowered my visability in the search engines for around 3/4 weeks.

I was going to do exacly what G. Lasagne was going to and rewirte the original content, but i left it for a while and have to report now that sales are up slightly and bounce rate is down to 28%

I personally believe you will do more harm than good by keep tinkering with your sites, obviuosly if things are that bad youll need to change but at least give it a few months to test things propoerly,

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Well done scott, I think his copy will work wonders for your product, however i have learnt that the salesy copy style only works for certain products, with trades i think it puts people off, in fact i know it does, everything i hear and read suggests so, and thus the drop in conversions since changing my copy, with a local business people want local relaible companies that live around the corner, i think lockie (think it was lockie) mentioned a marketing seminar where the crappy leaflet out performed the all singing all dancing one, by 2 to 1.
Also a friend of mine (aerial installation) said that the response form leaflets that he printed off himslef was mucg better than the professional ones., so this is the way my marketing is going now, more local and friendly orientated, than salesy marketing style.

I want to clarify that i think scott did do an excellent job, but unfortunately my service wasnt the right service for the copy, so im now in the process of re-writing the copy again.

I think Danny's product is absoloutely perfect for scotts copy and will no doubt be successful:)

Hi Dave.

As any copywriter will know, copy doesn't always work first time. Most of the time it does (I'd say about 90%), but other times it doesn't quite hit the mark. That's why testing is becoming more common.

I've E-mailed you two or three times asking how the copy has went, and I'm sure I even sent an E-mail basically saying that if the results aren't right up there, then I'll take another look. I never received a reply to any of these E-mails though. That offer still stands and would for anyone. If it could be better then I'll never just say 'tough' and leave you with the copy. I'll re-write it and make it work :).

So if you do want me to take another look, drop me an E-mail. I'm not out of tricks just yet!

Whats the difference between traditional copy writer and SEO copy writer? Can anybody explain why usual copy writer cannot write for web?

From what I understand, an 'SEO Copywriter' just writes text for the search engines. Can't say I've heard of this much though, if at all.

A 'traditional' copywriter (i.e. offline media, adverts, newspapers etc if you would call them that) may not be able to do so well on the web because the copy required is different. It's read in a certain way and absorbed in a certain way, so sales letter copy and web copy will have some major differences.

Then you have copywriters which can do a mixture of all three: offline copy and online sales copy which is also SEO optimised with the right keywords. It's worth finding a copywriter who can get the SEO side right, as the textual content is one of the most important parts of on-site optimisation.

[MASSEY]

Whats the difference between traditional copy writer and SEO copy writer? Can anybody explain why usual copy writer cannot write for web?

I didn't know there was such a thing as an seo copy writer.

[RBS]

I didn't know there was such a thing as an seo copy writer.

There is, loads of it:
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=seo+copywriting&meta=&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=seo+copy&gs_rfai=&fp=a14e1efbc109ce83

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

There is, loads of it:
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=seo+copywriting&meta=&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=seo+copy&gs_rfai=&fp=a14e1efbc109ce83

I think this commonly falls under SEO expert in general. An SEO should have the skills to write the optimised copy and configure the technical side. I've never known of an 'SEO copywriter' who writes optimised text only and leaves the rest.

[MASSEY]

http://www.copyblogger.com/seo-copywriting/

I think your link was broke,

the link above explains quite well, it strikes me as a bit strange I think as long as your standard copy writer drops in keywords but doesn't spam I struggle to see the difference based on the fact most of Seo is about backlinks

[Mystro]

http://www.copyblogger.com/seo-copywriting/

I think your link was broke,

the link above explains quite well, it strikes me as a bit strange I think as long as your standard copy writer drops in keywords but doesn't spam I struggle to see the difference based on the fact most of Seo is about backlinks


My home page is written in 2 parts

www.economyleasinguk.co.uk

Top half Seo copywriter bottom of text under the deals is written by sales copywriter

They both work for me hand in hand

[Faevilangel]

http://www.copyblogger.com/seo-copywriting/

I think your link was broke,

the link above explains quite well, it strikes me as a bit strange I think as long as your standard copy writer drops in keywords but doesn't spam I struggle to see the difference based on the fact most of Seo is about backlinks

It's not though, it's about relevant content, and giving your visitors a reason to stick to your site. Links can help get the visitors from multiple sources but good relevant content, will be 10x better.

[directmarketingadvice]

I didn't know there was such a thing as an seo copy writer.

I know there are people who call themselves "SEO copywriters", but I question what that actually means.

For starters, how would someone know they were an SEO copywriter?

IMO, someone would know they're an SEO if they do things that consistently achieve good Google rankings.

And, if someone hasn't consistently achieved good rankings with different sites, they've no business calling themselves "an SEO".

And, if I were to define "SEO", it's things that get rankings. It's not theory, or what some "guru" says - or what Matt Cutts says - it's what works.

Each of these last 3 statements is saying that it's all judged on rankings.

So, how would an "SEO copywriter" know they're an "SEO copywriter"? Surely it comes down to rankings?

They've come in, re-written a page (or site) and it's jumped up the rankings (to page 1) for something that's fairly competitive (something that needs more than just the random sprinkling of keywords on a page).

If they haven't done that - and done it with multiple sites - then I'd wonder on what basis they claim their copywriting is "SEO".

Steve

[Jay-UK]

I know there are people who call themselves "SEO copywriters", but I question what that actually means.

For starters, how would someone know they were an SEO copywriter?

IMO, someone would know they're an SEO if they do things that consistently achieve good Google rankings.

And, if someone hasn't consistently achieved good rankings with different sites, they've no business calling themselves "an SEO".

And, if I were to define "SEO", it's things that get rankings. It's not theory, or what some "guru" says - or what Matt Cutts says - it's what works.

Each of these last 3 statements is saying that it's all judged on rankings.

So, how would an "SEO copywriter" know they're an "SEO copywriter"? Surely it comes down to rankings?

They've come in, re-written a page (or site) and it's jumped up the rankings (to page 1) for something that's fairly competitive (something that needs more than just the random sprinkling of keywords on a page).

If they haven't done that - and done it with multiple sites - then I'd wonder on what basis they claim their copywriting is "SEO".

Steve

very good post and points there.

goes back to earlier posts - who do you know its good unless you have tangible results shown.

[Tin]

They've come in, re-written a page (or site) and it's jumped up the rankings (to page 1) for something that's fairly competitive (something that needs more than just the random sprinkling of keywords on a page).

If they haven't done that - and done it with multiple sites - then I'd wonder on what basis they claim their copywriting is "SEO".

Steve

Would wholeheartedly agree with that Steve.

Seo copywriting is being able to come into pre-written copy and doing what's needed to significantly increase rankings whilst retaining the original 'spirit' of the copy as much as possible, in other words, having the expertise to know how much copy to change and also which areas of copy would benefit from the change.

Seo copywriters should also be able to create bespoke copy based upon the specific keywords being targeted with the knowledge that this copy will create new opportunities for new, previously untargeted rankings.

The above is achievable whilst retaining the integrity of the copy from a human visitors perspective as well as the search engines. It's "an everybody happy" solution!

Not having the above skills puts them into the general copywriter fraternity unless they've alternative skills to offer such as sales oriented copy.

Just my tuppence worth

Ray

[G. Lasagne]

Hi Dave.

As any copywriter will know, copy doesn't always work first time. Most of the time it does (I'd say about 90%), but other times it doesn't quite hit the mark. That's why testing is becoming more common.

I've E-mailed you two or three times asking how the copy has went, and I'm sure I even sent an E-mail basically saying that if the results aren't right up there, then I'll take another look. I never received a reply to any of these E-mails though. That offer still stands and would for anyone. If it could be better then I'll never just say 'tough' and leave you with the copy. I'll re-write it and make it work :).

So if you do want me to take another look, drop me an E-mail. I'm not out of tricks just yet!



I can confirm that you did email me offering to take another look, and apologies for not replying, i totally forgot TBH:redface:, but if you dont mind taking another look then brilliant, its only really the home page that i thinks too salesy.

I honestly believe that my market is not the markety for this type of copy, i want copy to portray a local friendly and most importantly trustworthy buisiness, not a big franchise type company, i hope that makes sense.

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

I can confirm that you did email me offering to take another look, and apologies for not replying, i totally forgot TBH:redface:, but if you dont mind taking another look then brilliant, its only really the home page that i thinks too salesy.

I honestly believe that my market is not the markety for this type of copy, i want copy to portray a local friendly and most importantly trustworthy buisiness, not a big franchise type company, i hope that makes sense.

Trades like this aren't the easiest things to write about unless you have some really unique benefits or service features. A lot of it just involves getting across the features/benefits in a clear manner and making the visitor feel more comfortable with you instead of the competition. Some bits work like a charm and some bits don't quite hit the mark. You never know 100% until it's tested in a real situation.

I'll drop you an E-mail as soon as I can and we'll have another look. I have some ideas now we know what isn't working too well.

[directmarketingadvice]

Seo copywriting is being able to come into pre-written copy and doing what's needed to significantly increase rankings whilst retaining the original 'spirit' of the copy as much as possible, in other words, having the expertise to know how much copy to change and also which areas of copy would benefit from the change.

Seo copywriters should also be able to create bespoke copy based upon the specific keywords being targeted with the knowledge that this copy will create new opportunities for new, previously untargeted rankings.

The above is achievable whilst retaining the integrity of the copy from a human visitors perspective as well as the search engines. It's "an everybody happy" solution!

Not having the above skills puts them into the general copywriter fraternity unless they've alternative skills to offer such as sales oriented copy.

Here's a follow-up question to you, as someone who is known as an on-page SEO: would that be enough? Or would they also have to understand site structure , urls, header area, navigation, internal linking etc?

Or do you see an "SEO copywriter" as someone an SEO could outsource some of the SEO work to (but the SEO would keep control), rather than someone who could be hired on their own and expected to get rankings?

Steve

[Signify_1]

I think these are two different services. Someone who writes copy on an SEO perspective will offer an SEO service in it's full entirety, like link building, meta keyword placement, Title keyword placement, SEO friendly design structure and SEO keyword placement copy, This won't mean that the SEO copy will be good sales copy that sells, it's just optimized copy. The job of a sales copy writer whos main focus is to write copy that sells your product or service, but if the sales copy writer can learn skills to cleverly place the keywords in the right place of your content for benefit of search engine ranking then this adds to their service as Search engine optimized sales copy.

[directmarketingadvice]

if the sales copy writer can learn skills to cleverly place the keywords in the right place of your content for benefit of search engine ranking then this adds to their service as Search engine optimized sales copy.

Ok. Here's the question: how do they learn?

My suggestion would be that the only way you learn what does and doesn't work for the benefit of search engine ranking is through making changes and seeing whether those changes get you improved rankings.

(And I don't mean going up from position 723 to position 648, it has to be meaningful - "the difference that makes the difference".)

And, if they can get the rankings just by re-writing the sales message, does that not just mean they're "SEOs who write good copy".

i.e. that they can do the things an SEO can do, but they have this extra benefit added on.

I dunno. It's an interesting discussion.

Steve

[RBS]

Usually you would hire two persons - SEO guy and copy writer which both would work together on your webpage. SEO copywriter is 2 in 1, so you dont need two guys. Thats what I understand at the moment. So, Scott, please start learning SEO stuff :D

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Usually you would hire two persons - SEO guy and copy writer which both would work together on your webpage. SEO copywriter is 2 in 1, so you dont need two guys. Thats what I understand at the moment. So, Scott, please start learning SEO stuff :D

Oh I already know about SEO. My service includes search engine optimisation of the text with the right keywords. I wouldn't call myself an SEO copywriter though, as I don't write copy for purely SEO purposes. My primary goal is to write sales copy which converts prospects into customers.

I'd say SEO copywriting is a service, not a profession. An SEO expert should write optimised text as part of the package, so they're essentially offering an SEO copywriting service amongst other things. I've never personally known anyone to offer SEO copywriting services only.

[steve the fitter]

I honestly believe that my market is not the markety for this type of copy, i want copy to portray a local friendly and most importantly trustworthy buisiness, not a big franchise type company, i hope that makes sense.


Scott wrote the copy on my site (www.stevemorrowkitchens.co.uk (http://www.stevemorrowkitchens.co.uk)) and I think he got across the personal feel I wanted. I asked Scott to write it in the same style as his site as I really liked the way his website read when I was looking for a copywriter.

The site is getting me some good business now Scott so cheers :)

[Tin]

would that be enough? Or would they also have to understand site structure , urls, header area, navigation, internal linking etc?

Hi Steve,

No, if I was paying for an seo copywriting service then I'd expect seo'd copy. My expectations wouldn't extend to the writer having an understanding of other seo related areas as I think that falls firmly with the duties of the seo concerned. However, what I would expect from seo copy is a full understanding of the subtleties involved in writing copy around keywords and I don't mean simply adding a single keyword into the copy here and there and calling that seo copy but a much bigger understanding of the priority of keywords (for example, a single page that targets 1 keyword needs very different copy to a page that targets 30 keywords). A full understanding of how to use related words plus, an understanding of how best to use header tags within the copy relating to the keywords each page is targeting including a route for contextual links and how best to use text surrounding those links, is also important.

Seo copywriters seem to be no different to all the other professions web related ie; there's good and bad everywhere, many don't have a clue about seo copy and simply slap keywords in without any education whatsoever whilst others recognise it's a different skillset from their more usual stuff and take the time to get up to scratch on it. Full credit to them.

Or do you see an "SEO copywriter" as someone an SEO could outsource some of the SEO work to (but the SEO would keep control), rather than someone who could be hired on their own and expected to get rankings?

Yes, in my opinion. The best results always come from people working together, this not only means the seo and the copywriter but also involves the site owner, designer, programmer etc. When everyone pulls in the same direction that's when things bubble along nicely.

An SEO expert should write optimised text as part of the package, so they're essentially offering an SEO copywriting service amongst other things.

Not necessarily, sometimes clients offer no copy whatsoever for their pages so I have to create fully seo'd copy where required. Others will be very specific about their copy and request that I touch the absolute minimum to get the job done, I have no doubts other content seo's find the same thing happening to them.

I've never personally known anyone to offer SEO copywriting services only.

They do and they're everywhere. Whether they actually fully understand the intricacies is a topic for a different thread.

Ray

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Not necessarily, sometimes clients offer no copy whatsoever for their pages so I have to create fully seo'd copy where required. Others will be very specific about their copy and request that I touch the absolute minimum to get the job done, I have no doubts other content seo's find the same thing happening to them.

Well what I mean is that it should be offered as part of the package. A part of an SEO's repertoire of skills should be SEO copywriting, otherwise it would be mighty difficult to fully optimise the sites of many clients.

Never spotted anyone who offers SEO content writing only though, so that's a new one for me. Then again, I never venture outside of UKBF much.

Scott wrote the copy on my site (www.stevemorrowkitchens.co.uk (http://www.stevemorrowkitchens.co.uk/)) and I think he got across the personal feel I wanted. I asked Scott to write it in the same style as his site as I really liked the way his website read when I was looking for a copywriter.

The site is getting me some good business now Scott so cheers :)

Good stuff Steve. I'm glad it's going well. :)

[sirearl]

Bit confused here I thought copywriting was about increasing the conversion of a site.

And SEO was mainly about increasing the traffic.

I find it hard to understand how one can have an SEO copywriter ,as having that ability would make me think they had the full kit to do ,certainly onpage SEO.?

Earl