Contacting bad debtors' clients/suppliers

[DuaneJackson]

I have a client that owes me £3k. They look unlikely to pay and I've now found out they have atleast 3 unsettled CCJs. So taking them to court would probably be pointless.

They list a lot of their clients on their site. Where would I stand legally if I wrote to all of these clients to tell them about the situation? Obviously I'd stick to the facts so there woudn't be any slander.

It wont get me paid, but I'd feel better for doing it and I think these people should know the kind of company they are dealing with.

[Rob Holmes]

I'd say this would probably backfire - you may end up getting sued for slander or loss of earnings etc etc..

I would say it wouldn't be the most professional thing to do.

However.. I theres nothing wrong with thinking about it - I'm sure it's really frustrating.

Sometimes I write the worst letter I can with no intention of sending it - just feels good getting stuff off my chest ;)

Rob

[YEM]

When we have monies owed to us, we pass the debt onto a debt recovery agent - have you tried this route yet?

[DuaneJackson]

Yep, tried that. Nic is on the case. She is very persistent - if anyone is going to be able to elicit payment it's her. But if they just don't care about CCJ's (as their record shows) then all the debt recovery tactics in th world wont get anywhere

[bwglaw]

Duane

It may be an option to bring a claim against them (so you are not statute-barred) and be entitled to statutory interest. If they fail to honour the judgment then we can threaten with enforcement proceedings, including winding up petition (if Ltd Co) or bankruptcy (if individual)

The fact that they have 3 CCJ's means nothing because the creditors may not have actually enforced the CCJ.

If you inform the debtor's clients of their debt to you, you can rest assured that their debt to you is eradicated entirely. Debtors are entitled to be protected from most forms of harassment. A debtor is not likely to succeed on a defamation claim when it is entirely true.

By contacting the clients may well discredit your reputation by showing your unwillingness to deal with the matter amicably and through the legal channels.

If you would like further advice I can be contacted at the email address in my signature.

[Ian J]

I have a client that owes me £3k. They look unlikely to pay and I've now found out they have atleast 3 unsettled CCJs. So taking them to court would probably be pointless.

Do you know whether the debtor has made any arrangements to repay the County Court Judgements over a period or have they just ignored them completely.

I'm sure that if Nic is in contact with the debtor she will advise you on whether it's worthwhile investing a further £120 in a County Court Summons depending on the feedback that she receives.

[bwglaw]

Do you know whether the debtor has made any arrangements to repay the County Court Judgements over a period or have they just ignored them completely.

I'm sure that if Nic is in contact with the debtor she will advise you on whether it's worthwhile investing a further £120 in a County Court Summons depending on the feedback that she receives.

A debtor is highly unlikely to divulge the fact that they have 3 outstanding CCJ's and they are not likely to say whether they are making periodic payments or just ignoring them.

Which is the best recovery route very much depends on the status of the debtor and legal advice should be sought.

I just thought I would add that point since you seem to question my responses frequently in previous threads where I expressed an opinion or gave advice that was not incorrect.

[DuaneJackson]

Thanks Jonathon, are you sure you and Nic aren't the same person? She phoned me at 4:30 and basically said the same thing regarding bringing a claim to make sure we are not statute barred and to discuss the costs of enforcing it.

They're a partnership and not a limited company and to make things a little more complicated they're also based in Scotland.

Ian, I suspect they've ignored them completely - one is a good few years old.

[Admiral Collections]

Thanks Jonathon, are you sure you and Nic aren't the same person? She phoned me at 4:30 and basically said the same thing regarding bringing a claim to make sure we are not statute barred and to discuss the costs of enforcing it.

.


Nah, Jonathan is prettier than me

Nic :wink:

[bwglaw]

They're a partnership and not a limited company and to make things a little more complicated they're also based in Scotland.


Are they a Limited Liability Partnership i.e. LLP? Or are they just an ordinary partnership i.e. 2 or more sole traders?

The fact that they are in Scotland should not be an issue. Since you have retained Nic she can advise you of the procedures for serving the Claim Form in Scotland. However, you will have to issue the Claim Form, not the Debt Collections Agent. The Debt Collections Agent can only serve it.

[Ian J]

I just thought I would add that point since you seem to question my responses frequently in previous threads where I expressed an opinion or gave advice that was not incorrect.

I have re-read my post several times and can't find any point where I have questioned or contradicted anything that you have said.

As a lapsed Member of the Institute of Credit Management this is an area in which I have some expertise and assumed that opinions would be welcomed from everyone with a valid viewpoint.

[DuaneJackson]

Wow. After close to 2 months of the client totally ignoring my calls. Nic has been on the case exactly one week.

They phoned me yesterday begging me to call her off. So I gave them 24 hours and today they have paid by credit card.

Nic should change her name to NicTheMiracleWorkerChick!

One concern though - as it's a Cardholder Not Present transaction, they could shout 'Fraud' at any time and get their money back.

Before I return the software to them I am thinking of getting the cardholders signature on a fax.

Any idea what it should say?

"I hereby authorise Key One Ltd to debit my card ending in xxxx the sum of xxx in respect of Invoice number xxx"
?

Would that give me any protection?

[Antonia @limeone.com]

She has done well and I agree that a fax would help. I suspect also though, as you have used a debt collection professional that her notes and telephone logs in the event of a dispute will be good evidence.

I would suggest you talk it through with Nic, and hope it all works out for you.

[Ian J]

One concern though - as it's a Cardholder Not Present transaction, they could shout 'Fraud' at any time and get their money back.

Before I return the software to them I am thinking of getting the cardholders signature on a fax.

I would be careful that you don't put ideas into their heads.

Well done Nic that sounds like a result but you will no doubt just laugh it off claiming it to be "All in a day's work" :lol:

[DuaneJackson]

It certainly is a result. The guy I deal with is pretty amiable, it's the boss that was being a d**khead.

They've actually said to me that they wanted to get it paid ASAP as the partners can't turn on their mobile phones without her ringing and it's driving them mad.

It was a feat in itself getting their mobile numbers, but she seems to have her methods and they certainly work.

I'm a very happy chappy today!

[John Robins]

Yes, I've had experience with bad debtors myself. We managed to norrow our options down to three:

1. Send in the boys.

2. Take legal action.

3. Hire debt collectors, which depending on who you go to or who owes you the money, can seem like a hybrid cross of the other two.

option 1. Not recommended (certainly it was not our style).

option 2. If there is a path here you can take and your paperwork is in order it is probably the most legitimate approach but doesn't always pan out and you can waste good money after bad.

option 3. Subject to the amount you have owed again it can be more costly to try and get it than the amount outstanding.

If they have the money and just not paying up it can be quite irritating.

If they haven't, no matter what you do, you may not get satisfaction.

And I certainly agree with Rob/matrix, any attempt at public humiliation, even if you fall into it accidentally it almost certainly is going to backfire.

As a wise man on this forum once told me. If your legal optins are limited or you think that they just don't have it, just chalk it up to experience and move on.

Even so, good luck, JR

P.S. re option 3 well done Nic, seems like option 3 is the one to go with if you have the right person on the case...

[bwglaw]

As a wise man on this forum once told me. If your legal optins are limited or you think that they just don't have it, just chalk it up to experience and move on.

Glad to read you feeling positive. I know my posting to you earlier may appear harsh but sometimes this is a 'waking call' and inspires you to move on.

When my business was very small and new I took on a volunteer to give him experience with his web portfolio. To cut the story short, he took the company to Employment Tribunal to claim Unfair Dismissal and National Minimum Wage. We succeeded because he withdrew the claim 2 days before the Hearing. However, this did cost us alot of money and I had to instruct Counsel, not as much as £20k, but it was a lot and almost enough to wind up the company. I was angry, bitter but I got my wake up call and moved on.

For as long as I am CEO it will be a long time before anything could bring us down again.

I must add that the above experience made me sharper and smarter. Because of this very person I specialised into employment law, so here I am!


Jonathan

[John Robins]

Jonathan, hi,

Actually your note wasn't harsh, what I didn't mention was that the incident took place in 2002. It caused some pain and irritation at the time, but never threatened our business fortunately. We had actually moved on but the mention of a certain name just kicked in a nervous twitch.

We significantly tightened our T's&C's after that and haven't been stung since and confident that we won't again.

Your case is especially interesting to have given you the inspiration to focus the way you did. Always good to find the silver lining...

All the best, JR

[bwglaw]

what I didn't mention was that the incident took place in 2002.

The same year when it happened to us!

We had actually moved on but the mention of a certain name just kicked in a nervous twitch.

I know the feeling. The person who took us to Tribunal belongs to a small community that I used to belong so the whole of the community knew of the case. I managed to somehow reverse it to be a positive experience. The very same community now approach me for legal advice, even though I have been in law for about 8 years.

The person was a Jewish young man and I had a problem with Jewish people around the time and each time I met a Jewish person I cringed. I was annoyed because this chap was unemployed but his rich father was paying for a Regent Street lawyer to challenge us. I could not even persuade the Tribunal to award costs because he withdrew. The same person's lawyers threatened to sue for defamation which failed and then at the last minute a claim in the ET - nightmare!

I have now accepted it that you cannot tar them with the same brush.

Jonathan

[DSP1]

I have obtained a court order, against a local builder, for £5435. The judge ordered payment by the 10 May 2011 but the builder hasn't paid. It is a ltd company (rather a one man show with his wife as the Director and himself an employee) that the order is against. His wife, the director, e:mailed me the week before the deadline saying that they had cashflow problems and wouldn't be able to pay. She also asked me to suggest a payment plan! What can I do? Any advice much appreciated.

[daniel.benson]

I have obtained a court order, against a local builder, for £5435. The judge ordered payment by the 10 May 2011 but the builder hasn't paid. It is a ltd company (rather a one man show with his wife as the Director and himself an employee) that the order is against. His wife, the director, e:mailed me the week before the deadline saying that they had cashflow problems and wouldn't be able to pay. She also asked me to suggest a payment plan! What can I do? Any advice much appreciated.

We can enforce this Judgement for you,

Give me a pm or call on the number below to discuss your options.

Daniel

[bode]

Yep, tried that. Nic is on the case. She is very persistent - if anyone is going to be able to elicit payment it's her. But if they just don't care about CCJ's (as their record shows) then all the debt recovery tactics in th world wont get anywhere

Who is Nic?

[damatt]

I have been trying to collect overdue money from two customers for over 12 months, we have engaged a debt collection company who have spoken to the one who has replied and we have offered a discount but they still are not paying, they will not even oay for the materials we used and they are using it, so what else can we do.

[daniel.benson]

I have been trying to collect overdue money from two customers for over 12 months, we have engaged a debt collection company who have spoken to the one who has replied and we have offered a discount but they still are not paying, they will not even oay for the materials we used and they are using it, so what else can we do.

Have you thought about taking the matter to court?

Is your debtor in financial trouble?

[damatt]

I have thought about it, I have engaged debt collectors to go to the house to collect the money but he just makes excuses and then fails to reply to them after an offer is made to settle by reducing the amount claimed.

The job was not a large one, just supply and fit a radiator in one room, he did not like the way the pipe ran so we went back and changed it,his wife said it was fine after the change, so we sent the bill and they have not paid, they now say they don't like the pipes, so I have knoocked off the labour cost but they still refuse to pay.