PPC - how many people havn't got a clue?

[Matt1959]

just wondering what the pro's here think - if you're looking at a relatively uncompetitive service or product ie not something that firms are throwing money at via PPC specialists to get good ad positions - what percentage of PPC advertisers actually know what they're doing? I'm guessing people like SteveG here come across other peoples campaigns when researching obscure products/ services so presumably there must be an indication of PPC skills (or lack of them) in these areas?

[directmarketingadvice]

There tends to be 3 camps:

(1) People who are utterly clueless and wasting a load of money

(2) People who are doing a really good job.

(3) The inbetweeners who are doing ok, but could be getting a far better ROI.

Most of the D-I-Yers that approach me are in group 3.

However, that might just be a case of natural selection. They're doing well enough to stay in the game (not in group 1), but feel there could be a fair amount of improvement (not in group 2).

Steve

[Matt1959]

cheers Steve, theres a reason for me asking. Having a go at PPC myself and being in something quite niche as you know, I'm rightly or wrongly sticking with exact phrase match, and no content ads. Doing it this way tells me exactly who is searching for what and in what numbers on a daily basis (because this is of as much interest to me as the numbers of clicks I get at the moment) . Some of my keywords have a low CPC but high impression rate whereas others are the other way round and have high CPC but hardly any impressions despite being in the same campaign ie very similar phrases etc so I'm wondering whether this indicates that some of those bidding are actually choosing the wrong keywords. Am I making sense?!

[zigojacko]

I'm rightly or wrongly sticking with exact phrase match, and no content ads.

It's a good, cautious approach to take if you are learning the ropes.

[directmarketingadvice]

Some of my keywords have a low CPC but high impression rate whereas others are the other way round and have high CPC but hardly any impressions despite being in the same campaign ie very similar phrases etc so I'm wondering whether this indicates that some of those bidding are actually choosing the wrong keywords. Am I making sense?!

Are you showing ads on the google partner network? (As well as Google search.)

If so, turn it off and then see what happens.

Steve

[WeblinkPlus]

There tends to be 3 camps:

(1) People who are utterly clueless and wasting a load of money

(2) People who are doing a really good job.

(3) The inbetweeners who are doing ok, but could be getting a far better ROI.

Most of the D-I-Yers that approach me are in group 3.

However, that might just be a case of natural selection. They're doing well enough to stay in the game (not in group 1), but feel there could be a fair amount of improvement (not in group 2).

Steve

You forget those who think they are doing a good job, but don't monitor results... Like the house removals firm whos ads appear for 'laser hair removal'... :p

I think many are in group 1, often falling for the 'get to top of google in 24 hours'. I spoke to one such individual yesterday and, after explaining again how the scam works, I asked how many customers had he had as a result of this ad. He replied 'I don't know'... He claims it's cheap advertising...:rolleyes:

[alanc]

Are you showing ads on the google partner network? (As well as Google search.)

If so, turn it off and then see what happens.

Steve
Probably the best piece of advice you will read all day. IMHO Content Network is what eats up most people's budget and puts them off PPC all together. You have to learn to manage it carefully.

[zigojacko]

Probably the best piece of advice you will read all day. IMHO Content Network is what eats up most people's budget and puts them off PPC all together. You have to learn to manage it carefully.

The content network can work very well in some industries, but few, granted. Using placement targeting to control what sites your ads will appear on can be an effective way to manage your placements on the content network, a decent graphic image ad can work wonders on this network too.

[draelectricals]

I don't have a clue, and as a result have wasted a lot of money on companies who claim to be the best! If you want to know who to avoid inbox me. I won't say it publicly for fear of a lawsuit

[Ali-v-8]

I think the biggest mistake people currently make is looking at traffic volume not traffic conversions.
They seem to be happy getting 1000 visitors with 10 conversion at 50p a click rather than 1000 visitors with 100 conversions at 70p .

PPC is one of them fickley things that its is sometimes better to pay more to get better results.

[directmarketingadvice]

Probably the best piece of advice you will read all day. IMHO Content Network is what eats up most people's budget and puts them off PPC all together

I'm not talking about the content network (Matt had already said that was turned off), I was talking about the search partner network.

A few weeks ago, a forum member asked me why he was getting such different ctrs from exact match singular and exact match plural. The answer was that the one with the low ctr was getting most of it's impressions from the search partner network.

Once he switched it off, the two ctrs were about the same.

I suspect Matt may find the same thing.

Steve

[directmarketingadvice]

You forget those who think they are doing a good job, but don't monitor results... Like the house removals firm whos ads appear for 'laser hair removal'... :p

I find they tend to know whether they're getting a decent ROI. So, even in that case, that person may be in group 3.

(Or they may think they're doing so well, they don't approach me.)

As I said, there's a Darwinian process that happens before I talk to prospects. My prospects tend to be higher up the evolutionary ladder than average.

Steve

[1weekSEO]

Probably the best piece of advice you will read all day. IMHO Content Network is what eats up most people's budget and puts them off PPC all together. You have to learn to manage it carefully.

Yes, the first thing I did for one client was turn off Content Network & Search Partner Network, Google likes to eat your PPC budget in any way it can..

[WeblinkPlus]

I find they tend to know whether they're getting a decent ROI. So, even in that case, that person may be in group 3.

(Or they may think they're doing so well, they don't approach me.)

As I said, there's a Darwinian process that happens before I talk to prospects. My prospects tend to be higher up the evolutionary ladder than average.

Steve

Yes, we approach people direct so we get to see more of the group 1s who perhaps would never approach a specialist... I am surprised at the number who simply pay out without attempting to track... Perhaps because they're used to paying out for traditional advertising where it's far more difficult to track and no ones told them...?

[dots and spots Jeff]

cheers Steve, theres a reason for me asking. Having a go at PPC myself and being in something quite niche as you know, I'm rightly or wrongly sticking with exact phrase match, and no content ads. Doing it this way tells me exactly who is searching for what and in what numbers on a daily basis (because this is of as much interest to me as the numbers of clicks I get at the moment) . Some of my keywords have a low CPC but high impression rate whereas others are the other way round and have high CPC but hardly any impressions despite being in the same campaign ie very similar phrases etc so I'm wondering whether this indicates that some of those bidding are actually choosing the wrong keywords. Am I making sense?!(My bold for emphasis)

First of all - I'm no expert, in fact I'd describe myself as a rank amateur, but I'm enjoying learning, and have run a few campaigns, some more successful than others. What I like about PPC is the 'measurability' of everything.

Anyway, was rambling a little above, what I wanted to say was this:
I recently ran a campaign for a new site (using a free £100 voucher - thanks Google!) but included Broadmatch and what was useful as it gave me some keywords to think about optimising for, and also some to add as negatives to the campaign. So using PPC broadmatch was a useful tool to help my organic SEO.

I'm not promoting the above as best practice - in fact I'm sort of cheekily offering up to the experts to shoot down in flames, or otherwise, - all part of the learning process and, as ever, I am grateful to those on this site who so willingly share their knowledge which has (hopefully!) kept me out of group 1.

Jeff

[Mark Pocock]

I know we helped someone with their PPC campaign.
Stopped the content search and instantly saved them £9K.
May have even been £15K per year.

Frightening isn't it? A little know-how can be
dangerous.

cheers

Mark

[matth]

Thanks for the tips! I've just turned off the Search Partner Network and the Content Network for my (tiny) PPC campaign!

[directmarketingadvice]

I know we helped someone with their PPC campaign.
Stopped the content search and instantly saved them £9K.
May have even been £15K per year.

Frightening isn't it? A little know-how can be
dangerous.

I should probably say that I like the content network. It's far better than its reputation suggests. In fact, I have clients who have a higher ROI with content than with google search.

(Even for ecommerce stores selling physical products.)

The problem is that Google search and Google content are very different forms of advertising - with different purposes - but most people don't separate the two.

Steve

[Matt1959]

well I did turn off search partner network this morning when I saw Steves post before going to work and the impressions have dropped through the floor. Me being me, I knew the partner network option was turned on and assumed it was something to do with other sites that partner with Google in order to provide search facillities so thought if that was the case, it would be good to have it. Like I said, I assumed, and will now go see what partner network actually means:redface:

[zigojacko]

well I did turn off search partner network this morning when I saw Steves post before going to work and the impressions have dropped through the floor. Me being me, I knew the partner network option was turned on and assumed it was something to do with other sites that partner with Google in order to provide search facillities so thought if that was the case, it would be good to have it. Like I said, I assumed, and will now go see what partner network actually means:redface:

Google's search partners include:-



AOL
Ask.com
Netscape Netcenter
Earthlink
Compuserve
Shopping.com
AT&T Worldnet

[Ibebito Media]

Most of the time I switch off the search partner network, because when I check the stats most of the time they have a lower conversion rate and lower CTR. But it also depends of course of the industry you are in.

Back to the start of this thread, I did take over some campaigns from so called "professional PPC agencies" and then almost you get tears in your eyes how they setup the campaigns. One campaign with 2 or 3 adgroups and dumped all the broad match keywords in there and no negative keywords and then they are surprised that they don’t have conversions or a very low CTR.

Nobody is perfect but I try to get the best result for my clients and I learn everyday something.

[alanc]

I should probably say that I like the content network. It's far better than its reputation suggests. In fact, I have clients who have a higher ROI with content than with google search.
Steve
What Steve isn't telling you is that he is most likely limiting what sites the adverts are shown on. By default, Google will scatter your click dollars all over the place.

[alanc]

Google's search partners include:-



AOL
Ask.com
Netscape Netcenter
Earthlink
Compuserve
Shopping.com
AT&T Worldnet

I have Search Partners enabled and Content Network limited to one site only, yet my adverts show up on Amazon.

[directmarketingadvice]

I have Search Partners enabled and Content Network limited to one site only, yet my adverts show up on Amazon.

They're on it, too.

There are other shopping sites. For example, Ebay might still be on it.

Steve

[directmarketingadvice]

What Steve isn't telling you is that he is most likely limiting what sites the adverts are shown on.

A lot less than you imagine. I tend to start by letting google decide and then I use the stats to eliminate those with low ctr or low conversion.

Steve

[alanc]

They're on it, too.

There are other shopping sites. For example, Ebay might still be on it.

Steve
Yep. I get some eBay traffic through ads, and recently, Play

[alanc]

I tend to start by letting google decide and then I use the stats to eliminate those with low ctr or low conversion.

Hmm... Now there's a good idea.

[directmarketingadvice]

Hmm... Now there's a good idea.

Thanks,

Steve

[Mystro]

I think the biggest mistake people currently make is looking at traffic volume not traffic conversions.
They seem to be happy getting 1000 visitors with 10 conversion at 50p a click rather than 1000 visitors with 100 conversions at 70p .

PPC is one of them fickley things that its is sometimes better to pay more to get better results.


But is that not the job of the landing page to do the conversion,

id be happy to pay for the 50p per click compared to the 70p if it got people to my site, then if those did not convert then i would be looking at my landing page rather than my PPc ad

[directmarketingadvice]

But is that not the job of the landing page to do the conversion,

id be happy to pay for the 50p per click compared to the 70p if it got people to my site, then if those did not convert then i would be looking at my landing page rather than my PPc ad

If you split-test ads based on conversion, you'll find that, oftentimes, the ad with the lower conversion rate produces more sales.

Not just when measured as

conversion rate = sales/clicks

but also when measured by

sales/impressions

which is a more important metric.

This is because each ad attracts a particular group of people and those groups convert at a different rate.

Steve