Long copy is only for the uneducated?

[mr.steve]

Hello all

In a recent thread a discussion went off topic (viral marketing) and on to that old chestnut about long versus short copy. (sigh)

<< Mods note - link to thread deleted as the other thread was spam >>

One post said that "long copy only really appeals to people who are desperate and/or don't have a highly developed sense of scepticism - ie, the poorly educated, who also tend to be the least well-off.

Long form sales letters, therefore, are only really good for selling people who can't afford much things they don't need."

Another said it was unethical.

Yet another said it was a waste of time.

As a copywriter, I always use long copy, because tests going back over 80 years show that it pulls a better response. It really is true that "the more you tell, the more you sell".

But does it appeal only to the poorly educated?

Well, The average reader of The Wall Street Journal isn't too dumb, but they react well to long copy. A long copy sales letter for the newspaper brought in millions of dollars in new subscriptions.

The average user of American Express isn't too stupid either, and they react well to long copy.

The average reader of National Geographic isn't "poorly educated" but they react well to long copy.

And so it is with the well-educated buyers of thousands of products and services.

So is it unethical?

Not at all. To make your prospect fully appreciate all the benefits of your product or service is the best thing you can do for them.

That doesn't mean long copy can't be used in an unethical way. It can. But so can short copy. It all depends on what you do with it.

Whether you love or hate long copy, it's been proved time and again that it's the form that pulls in the money. All the most successful advertising uses long copy. And it does it in a highly-ethical way.

People will read as much as you give them, if the subject is one that interests them and you talk about solving their problems.

In the end the question is not whether you think long copy works, but just "How much money do you want to make?"

[Coding Monkey]

What about websites? I would say the reverse is true, and have seen the improvement in results many times over when minimalising the content.

Can you give a few examples? I hired a copywriter to produce some letters for me, and they were only a page long, with short paragraphs, so really it could have been put in 1/2 page. And my budget was far beyond what I was charged.

[mr.steve]

What about websites? I would say the reverse is true, and have seen the improvement in results many times over when minimalising the content.

Depends what you mean by results. If you mean cutting out repetition from a purely content-driven website, then no doubt there was an improvement in readability.

But a sales letter of a few paragraphs very rarely has enough copy to make the sale.

Anyhow, here's a couple of examples of extremely successful long-copy sales letters from the internet.

http://www.bigseminar.com/indexLA.html
http://www.beatmyspeedingticket.com/no_ticket.html

I don't know who wrote the big seminar copy, but I think it was Michel Fortin who wrote the speeding ticket letter. I know that both pulled in mega-bucks.

[Coding Monkey]

I mean a hugh increase in queries. Remember, over 80% of people who come to your website are using a search engine, which means they're looking for what you're selling at the exact moment they want it. You don't need to do a long sales pitch, as they're alread your target audience who want something from you (providing the search terms are correct). People react differently to online marketing than offline in many instances, as it's a different way of interacting.

[directmarketingadvice]

THere's a good example of a long sales letter at:

http://www.ohpdirect.com/pro.php?sku=SP-77

I've never played golf in my life, yet I read every word.

Steve

[Coding Monkey]

Is that John Carlton, Steve? I recall him writing a golf sales letter.

[mr.steve]

Good point.

If people come to your website searching for a widget and they find you sell that widget, they buy. In those cases it's mostly a matter of price.

But then your only advantage is price, and that's a very dangerous situation to be in. A competitor can come and take your market at any time.

And what if a prospect isn't looking for a widget? What happens if they're looking for a solution to a problem and they don't know which "widget" or service will solve it.

Then it's the sales copy that makes the difference. The sales copy which targets those buying emotions is the one that will make the sale.

And people don't react differently to online marketing. It's been proved by the big direct mailers that the same long copy sales pitch works online as offline. Multi-million dollar businesses like Rodale and Boardroom have taken their offline expertise and used the same techniques on the web and made a killing, making millions of dollars in sales.

At the end of the day, it boils down to the question of whether your business is making as much money as you'd like. Your way of doing things for your business is working brilliantly and the money is flooding in, so great. For other people, maybe their business isn't as profitable as they'd like, and so they they need to try a different approach.

That's all their is to it.

Cheers

Steve

[Coding Monkey]

The price factor is very true, but you don't need a long sales pitch to describe why a £10 item is more expensive than another £10 item. You need testimonies, guarantees, delivery times and other snippets of information. Do I trust these people? If you start giving me a sales pitch to convince me, I don't think I would.

When it comes to selling a service, that's another matter entirely, and there could be where your sales letter comes in. Price isn't the point you want to get across when you're performing a service.

I'll do agree with all you said, apart from people not acting differently. It's a completely different platform where so much information is made available that you have to make an astonishing impact fast, as you can go elsewhere within seconds with no effort involved at all. You can click on 10 adverts at once, and if they don't have the exact words in the first paragraph that you can see within split seconds, you're going elsewhere, because there are thousands upon thousands of more options available.

I certainly don't read those sales pitches online, because more studies have displayed how to split up text online, as opposed to offline, to make it more enticing and likely to be read. I never read the 1 page websites, as the scroll bar is too offputting and I'm too used to them being spam/scams. When I see that scrollbar, that standard web page, I know they're trying to sell to me something that sounds too good to be true, so I don't even begin to read them. I recall a study saying that we receive more information in a day, than someone would have in an entire year 200 years ago. People will receive so much electronic information, that the impact is becoming less significant, so you have to be even more creative to grab attention, with banners, pop-ups, flash banners and flying pigs all moving around.

[mr.steve]

The price factor is very true, but you don't need a long sales pitch to describe why a £10 item is more expensive than another £10 item. You need testimonies, guarantees, delivery times and other snippets of information. Do I trust these people? If you start giving me a sales pitch to convince me, I don't think I would.

You're contradicting yourself. You say you don't need a sales pitch... and then you say you need testimonials, guarantees, delivery times etc.

That is a classic long copy sales pitch!

Giving the prospect all the benefits of the product.

As for the one page website, it sells big style. That's why all the big direct mailers use the format. They're making millions.

When you say you don't read sales pitches online, that's because you're not the prospect. And you may be looking at it from a web design viewpoint. But the real prospects don't care, and they're buying like there's no tomorrow.

As for Flash and animation and all that flying pig stuff... it's a sure-fire sales killer. That's why the big online marketers don't use it. They're sticking to tried and trusted methods (the simple long form sales letter) and raking in the money.

In the end, it's just a matter of whether people want to make real money online or not.

Steve

PS
Yeah, John Carlton... Spoke to him a few weeks ago at a seminar where we launched a product... and selling it using a long copy sales letter.

No graphics, no Flash... just a single web page pitching a product at a hungry market. It's already selling like hot cakes... :D

(It isn't a golf product...)

[mumper]

You’re looking for a way to make more money from your business and you want to find the key the makes the money flow.

that?

[Coding Monkey]

I guess we have a different perception of what a sales pitch it.

Agreed with the flash banners etc. Reading over it, it sounds like I was endorsing them, rather, I was saying that they're distractions.

I look at those 1 page websites from a "I've got time to be doing something else that I don't associate with a scam". I have to say, I'm very impressed they work so well, as I wouldn't assume them to, but with the number of scams appearing following suit, they might not in a short period of time as people become weary.

I guess it will depend on the sector. All these 1 page websites have a common product for sale, which involves no real human interaction to turn into a sale.

[mr.steve]

You’re looking for a way to make more money from your business and you want to find the key the makes the money flow.

that?

Is that from me syte. Wot a sheme.

But me clients are interested in meking muney. Not spoting typoz 8)

Terrible. I hang me 'ed in shame. :D

[directmarketingadvice]

Yeah, John Carlton... Spoke to him a few weeks ago at a seminar where we launched a product... and selling it using a long copy sales letter.

Mr Steve, do you know if all the ads on this golf site were written by John Carlton?

I knew that some were by him (e.g. the one-legged golfer ad), but wasn't sure if all the others were.

Steve

[mr.steve]

Yeah, John Carlton... Spoke to him a few weeks ago at a seminar where we launched a product... and selling it using a long copy sales letter.

Mr Steve, do you know if all the ads on this golf site were written by John Carlton?

I knew that some were by him (e.g. the one-legged golfer ad), but wasn't sure if all the others were.

Steve

Hi Steve

Yeah, as far as I know he wrote all the golf letters. I think he's written over a hundred now. He makes a fortune from his golf stuff.

We were having a laugh about how far the golf craziness could be taken... You know:

"How a 122-Year-Old One-Legged Golfer Dead For Nine Years Suddenly Came to Life and Began to Blast 465-Yard T-Shots With Stunning Pinpoint Accuracy!"

Great stuff when aimed at the right market.

All the best

Steve

[mumper]

But me clients are interested in meking muney. Not spoting typoz

Don't you take any pride in your work then?

[mr.steve]

Of course...

But my copy and marketing advice is there to make money for my clients.

That's what they want.

I service the needs of my market.

And the odd typo never stopped the money coming in.

And they can always be corrected later, once the money flows.

So thanks for pointing out the typo on my page.

I'm sure there are more.

All the best.

Or as Gary Bencivenga once said: "Why not the best?"

Steve

[Pebble Communications]

No form of marketing will work on everybody. Different people react well to different messages in different styles. Personally I do not even bother reading once I spot long-copy, I hate it, but I know that it works well overall.

I don't think it is quite as simple as saying it only works on the uneducated.

My gut feeling is that it works well on Americans but less well in the UK. Am I right in that Steve?

[Rob Holmes]

I know long copy works well with the English BUT - it has to be written slightly differently as the English are more suspicious to hyperbole etc..

Rob

[directmarketingadvice]

I happen to be re-reading "Ogilvy on Advertising" by David Ogilvy (once described by time magazine as “the most sought-after wizard in the advertising industry”).

In the chapter on direct response advertising, he makes his views quite clear:

“Long copy sells more than short copy, particularly when you are asking the reader to spend a lot of money. Only amateurs use short copy.”

Steve

[Tin]

Isn't it surely 'horses for courses'? Long copy will work and produce results for some whilst short copy works for others. I'd also guess that it's market sector dependant and for what it's worth, I personally 'switch off' from reading long copy especially if it seems to too sales pitched.
But maybe that's why I'm still struggling to make my first million ... :cry: I really must read more than I do.

[mr.steve]

“Long copy sells more than short copy, particularly when you are asking the reader to spend a lot of money. Only amateurs use short copy.”

Steve

Right on, Steve!

And Fiona..

Personally I do not even bother reading once I spot long-copy, I hate it, but I know that it works well overall.

But you must read books. That's long copy. Magazine articles? That's long copy.

You probably hate badly-written long copy. Or the product isn't aimed at you, and so you're just not interested. In that case, the length of copy is irrelevant.

And what "we" like as individuals is neither here not there. What matters is the market, the people we are trying to sell to.

And if there's any contention as to what works, do what all the best direct mailers do.

Test
Test
And test again.

Try short copy against long and see which pulls the best response. I'll think you'll find it's long copy. Then test different offers, prices, guarantees...

That makes the difference between great direct response advertising, which pulls in the money, and the "creative" slogan-and-picture stuff which is rarely tested and tends to make no money.

And it doesn't matter whether the audience is American or English. As Matrixx pointed out, there's less hype in the UK, but mostly it's a case of writing to the style of your prospect. Some US direct response copy is very low-key.

In the end only the preferences of the customer matter. Because they're the ones who put money in your pocket.

Anyhow, that's enough about long versus short copy.

If in doubt, test.

Let your market tell you what they want.

All the best to you all! 8)

Steve