Self promotion on these forums [Archive]

Ozzy

21st January 2006, 20:24

Hi Guys,
I've had quite a few emails and PMs from a few of you guys on here complaining about the amount of spam and self promotion from other members on these forums.
I've tended to be a bit more tollerant towards longer term members, but the problem is that some are taking a bit more than the inch I gave, and it also sets a bad example for new members (they did it so why cant I).

So I'm afraid the mods and I are going to have a to get a little more strict with self promotion on here.

Please, if you have a specific and unique offer only available to readers of these forums post it in the UKBF Offers section. Otherwise, if you must advertise please keep it to a brief message in your signature. For an example look at mine, Matrixx, handongroup and a few others similar for good clean signatures.

Just letting you know incase any see a post disappear and feel offended by it :)

KM-Tiger

21st January 2006, 20:49

It's also worth knowing that if you use Firefox and get the Adblock extension from here (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&category=Popular&numpg=10&id=10) you can block out all the banner ads in signatures, over-large avatars etc.

I now read this forum text only.

Coding Monkey

21st January 2006, 20:54

So, would you rather we (by that I, of course, include myself) remove banners etc from signatures?

Ozzy

21st January 2006, 21:01

Your banner Tom is actually fine by me as its a nice clean tidy logo.

KM-Tiger

21st January 2006, 21:01

So, would you rather we (by that I, of course, include myself) remove banners etc from signatures?
If that question was to me the answer is yes, or rather it's irrelevant as I've blocked banners anyway.

I come here to read and respond to what people say, maybe offer or ask for help, not look at adverts.

Links, however, are unobtrusive and might come in handy one day.

Coding Monkey

21st January 2006, 21:03

Was aimed at Ozzy, but I'll remove it anyway.

Ozzy

21st January 2006, 21:10

Ofcourse, just using text links is actually better for the SEO if your website anyway ;)

Jayne

21st January 2006, 21:12

I read it to mean, people who join to spam only and those who constantly plug their products. :D

Don't think he ment banners?

Jayne

MarkPearson

21st January 2006, 21:16

Ok, Ozzy

I agree with the full on self promotion.

What't your thoughts on the banners in the signatures.

I think its either a yes, keep them or you disable the option and every one has text links.

Personally, I don't mind seeing peoples banners in their signatures. It helps me put a name to the type of business they run.

I do think its either for or against.

If you agree to allow them, then maybe set a rule on size etc?

Tazuk

21st January 2006, 21:31

so how do you put a banner as a signature?

TAZ

Steve Roberts

21st January 2006, 22:00

Good call Ozzy, you know my thoughts on the matter!

I don't think you can treat established different from the newbies - otherwise you're acting like a referee favouring certain teams.

Robert

21st January 2006, 22:44

I dont mind the banners. What I don't like is the (seemlingly) weekly offers by the same people over and over.

Jayne

21st January 2006, 22:48

I don't mind banners, as long as they are not too big, they make your screen stretch if they are too long. There should be a set size for all. :D

Jayne

caroline

21st January 2006, 23:11

I like the banners, and find them interesting :0)

clairemackaness

21st January 2006, 23:18

I like the banners and I hope that I am not one of those who always self promotes. I do post the odd offer here and there and tell you about good stuff, but mainly when I have gained UKBF memebers help in acheiving something (like my product shop).

I think we all really know whose being talked about here, (weekly posts blah de blah de blah), so if we all take a chill pill and just heed the advice I think things will all be A OK!

Claire
xx

Jayne

21st January 2006, 23:57

There is quiet a few doing it now though and it's spoiling it on here a bit, I sometimes get fed up with spam and personal advertising, so delete away Ozzy :lol:

Jayne

JustOneUK

22nd January 2006, 02:10

feel free to send me a PM if you consider me one of the guilty party. It would be best to know.

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 06:36

This is a great idea, and will help the forums do what they are best at, which is helping others.

A typical example is when someone asks if anyone can recommend a good web designer. Normally there are very few recommendations, and alot of people jumping in with "I can do that" (which are not exactly recommendations....)

There are "tenders" and "offers" forums which should be more than enough for people to promote their own services in.

I get more clients through these forums by not aggressively self promoting, so hopefully everyone else will as well :D

bwglaw

22nd January 2006, 07:46

I get more clients through these forums by not aggressively self promoting, so hopefully everyone else will as well :D

I agree, since I have updated my signature I have had a few contacts for legal advice and one was from a member rarely on here, with others being regulars.

I think some signatures are way over the top. The signature is your image, make it unique. Animated GIF/Graphic banners are viewed IMO as merely advertising. Why not just have your logo as an Avatar and the signature as a descriptive text which is SEO friendly.

With being on a slow connection, these banners are slowing down the upload of a page. Not sure if it affects the server bandwidths or anything.

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 08:26

I agree, since I have updated my signature I have had a few contacts for legal advice and one was from a member rarely on here, with others being regulars. Maybe we are getting more used to ignoring sales pitches that are forced upon us, especially with all the viagra spam etc that surrounds us all on a daily basis, and concentrate more on finding what we want ourselves.

confused

22nd January 2006, 09:36

Personally I have no issues with banners at the bottom, I think it gives you an idea of what the person does, most of the ones are a dedent size, the ones on this post for example are the roses one and Claires, I think they do no harm at all but do give a personal touch so to speak, maybe as mentioned, a size limit may be the answer.
I do hope that banners arnt disallowed, especially since Ewen is kindly making me one!
I definately agree that there are too many blantently advertising their business at every possible moment, and indeed, anyone wanting a new website ought to post in the tenders forum since thats what its there for.

CALV

Ian J

22nd January 2006, 09:39

just using text links is actually better for the SEO if your website anyway ;)

I'm not sure what the value of the text links in the signature is here anyway. I know that what Google considers to be a link is a closely guarded secret but analysing what Google shows as a link indicates that they don't treat links from UKBF as highly as they do the other business and finance forums. The PR here seems high enough and I just wonder if it's anything to do with the huge amount of "post count padding" that goes on here resulting in Google downrating the site.

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 09:42

Jauvenescense is on the case to make me a small side bar which I will have as my avatar shortly and I will be removing my big one. I know people like it, but others dont.

I guess what we must also remember is that Jauv got a lot of business out of mine, marks and Nigels banners. Everyone liked them and then went and ordered them.

I think VS is right about getting business without activly promoting. I have now had 7 orders from UKBF members and have never actually posted anything like "I CAN PAINT YOU A PICTURE FOR REALLY LOW PRICES" (woops just did it LOL), but just put up a simple 10% discount in offers.

Proofs in the pud guys.

p.s Banners staying until I get my new one LOL

Ian J

22nd January 2006, 09:49

so how do you put a banner as a signature?

You don't want a banner as they are less effective for SEO than text links but I would suggest that you change your links anyway so that it's the keywords that are linked and not the site url

20,000 sqft sky high aerial advertising (www.helivation-uk.com/towing.htm)
Disaster response and aid relief worldwide (www.helivation-uk.com/responseunit.htm)
Helicopters for all occasions (www.helivation-uk.com/charter.htm)

The above may work better for you

Top Hat

22nd January 2006, 10:07

I think you should use the rel=nofollow tag

14. How do I tell Googlebot not to crawl a single outgoing link on a page?

Meta tags can exclude all outgoing links on a page, but you can also instruct Googlebot not to crawl individual links by adding rel="nofollow" to a hyperlink. When Google sees the attribute rel="nofollow" on hyperlinks, those links won't get any credit when we rank websites in our search results. For example a link,

<a href=http://www.example.com/>This is a great link!</a>

could be replaced with

I can't vouch for this link (http://www.example.com/).

And advertise the fact, it would stop people posting links for SEO purposes

crus

22nd January 2006, 10:15

I can tend to be a bit of an obnoxious git,
so if I step out of line let me know.

D

ps: I see the signature as just that, a way of identifying you to your current focus by banner or link. So I don't mind either way.

bwglaw

22nd January 2006, 10:28

To be honest, I find your banner to be far too big and looks like advertising.

The trouble with forums is that the first person puts up a banner and everyone follows suit and it gets out of control.

This kind of thing does not appear to be allowed on other forums.

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 10:30

other forums I use have a signature limit, for example, of 4 lines and no more than 2 clickable links and no images.

MarkPearson

22nd January 2006, 10:32

Hi Crus,

Just a little request from me about your signature

The webaddress www.linksponsor.co.uk is to the right of your banner and is making the page wider....

Can you put it above or below your banner?

Anyone else notice this?

Also, If my posting or banner is offending anyone, please drop me a quick PM.

I would sooner know! :-)

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 10:35

there is also an arguement that if members can have banners in their sigs, they would have no need to pay for advertising space on the forums, which in relation to Ozzy's recent post in the feedback forum might be something to consider.

crus

22nd January 2006, 10:46

ditched the banner!

Mac Yeti

22nd January 2006, 11:06

I really like looking at well designed banners, and think they offer a nice contrast to help break up the posts.

Jayne

22nd January 2006, 11:16

Don't think Ozzy said anything about banners, I thought he ment, those dropping their products and services into threads, like I sell that or do that, i'll PM you, instead of just Pming quietly, they have to announce it, that sort of thing. And there are the ones who make jokes of things, like buy my xxxxx..lol, it's all still advertising and this it what I thought this thread was about, he's asking for people to stop self promoting. That's all.

Jayne :D

Tin

22nd January 2006, 11:34

Hi

Interesting thread this and I'd like to throw my bit in on a number of points. Firstly, it does seem to me that there's a portion of forum members who appear to be blatingly advertising their product whenever they get a chance by posting or replying with just one liners. Personally it doesn't bother me and you can't really blame them if they look at this forum or forums in general as a means of self promotion but it does seem to be on the increase in here.

Secondly, concurring with Top Hats post yes, if board moderators want to nullify any potential seo benefit members could get through using text or banner links then using the 'rel=nofollow' will do just that but as Top Hat mentioned that point it led me to run some checks to see if there's actually any benefit by using text links on this forum and I can't see any evidence that there is. There's clear evidence that some members here who post on other forums get a slight but distinct seo benefit if they include links in sigs but not from this forum which possibly brings the worth of such links into question anyway. For time reasons I only used 3 forum examples in my test (could have picked the wrong examples) :-) but if that's the case then the only reason I see for promoting a business on here is to generate new customers via the forum members themselves as any seo benefit seems to be non existant.

Thirdly... off to find another forum :wink:

Ray

DuaneJackson

22nd January 2006, 12:00

Interesting. I'm not sure if I'm taking this thread off topic or just moving with it's evolution, but....

Tin, why do you think there might be less (or no) benefit from sigs on here whilst there is from other forums? (I assume the others are phpBB too with out any mod-rewrites)

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 12:03

Signature changed (thanks Tom) and avatar replaced with a nice little logo (thanks Ewan).

I hope you guys dont miss my mug shot too much! LOL

Please feel free to PM me at any point if you think I'm self promoting too much.

ewan

22nd January 2006, 12:24

arhhh... the avatar seems to have gone wrong on my pc, did you resave it by any chance... quality seems to be much reduced :(

ewan

22nd January 2006, 12:32

http://www.micro-maul.co.uk/free/images/avatar.jpg

Theres the image, try simply right click save image as and then upload it via your UKBF profile.

Coding Monkey

22nd January 2006, 12:37

Well, I was bored for 20 minutes, so produced a script that limits the size, width, height and type of images that can be used in signatures. You're welcome to have it, but I won't put it here, as I might be seen to be promoting myself ;)

Tin

22nd January 2006, 12:44

Duane wrote
Tin, why do you think there might be less (or no) benefit from sigs on here whilst there is from other forums? (I assume the others are phpBB too with out any mod-rewrites)

I picked 3 random members from this forum for my test. These members have both a website and have been using links in whatever form to link to their sites via forum posts from here for sufficient a time that the forum pages carrying the links would by now have been cached if they were to be cached. These pages are cached in Google & Yahoo.
I then used the link operator on Google & Yahoo on all 3 sites and didn't find a single link from this site to their respective websites. Yahoo showed different link values & numbers as expected but failed to show any from this forum.
In conducting the test I did notice an indexing value of links from a variety of other forums where those same members are posting and these are clearly being 'factored in' on Google & Yahoo but the lack of same from here leads me to conclude there's currently no benefit in such practice.
I didn't hang around long enough to check if they were PHPBB forums at the time sorry.
I do make the point that I randomly picked 3 so it's possible without running other tests that I picked an a non-typical bunch. :)

Ray

ps; I don't want to take this thread off topic either so won't post further on it :-)

cjd

22nd January 2006, 14:50

As an observation to provide a contrast, the FSB forum does not allow advertising in any form; even mentioning your company name in a thread is frowned on.

As a consequence it's totally dead.

Personally I like to know what other people's businesses are and over time you form an opinion.

I think the balance is about right - otright spam is nuked pretty quickly and just doing what our mod has just done - asking us to reign back a little every so often to curb our natural desire to punt our services to anyone who looks our way - is probably enough.

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 14:52

Hi Ewan, I had to resize it to 90x90 as the avatar size has now been reduced by the mods and your original one wasn't allowed.

ewan

22nd January 2006, 15:33

oh, righty, i'll quickly make it 90x90 now ;)

ewan

22nd January 2006, 15:39

done (http://www.micro-maul.co.uk/free/images/avatar.jpg)

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 15:41

Thanks Ewan, I'll change it

fastfences

22nd January 2006, 15:58

Have I missed the good stuff again?

Agree about monitoring 'self promotion.'

Re the banners, I think it's something that sets apart UKBF from 'the others'. It adds to the visual appeal, and in my mind, professional perception of the poster's business. There is definate need for 'guidelines' on size, though I was once guilty of overdoing it; I had two banners running but felt it was a little 'over the top' so removed one.

Claire is correct in saying they have rewarded a UKBF member with some work.
Cheers, Nigel

creacom

22nd January 2006, 16:05

Its true that there have been a recent rise in banner popularity. I put a banner on my signature but have now removed it. Not a problem and Im happy to keep in line if we are told not to have banners.

To go back to Ozzy's original point self promotion on these forums has also been a hot topic recently. In my opinion there are very few who do it. Some do it because they dont realise that its not allowed and others do it over and over again.

Its strange for me really because although I know our services are great I would never say on these forums something like "Look no further than us for excellent design" because there are some other excellent designers here and for me it doesnt show a very positive attitude towards the other members of these forums. But there are some members who insist on saying things like this about whatever they do and that is just pure self promotion.

Ok, rant over, back to Sunday evening reality !! lol..

Jacqui

creospace

22nd January 2006, 16:13

I wouldn't ban self promotion, sometimes it's amusing and a learning curve to see how people promote themselves.

Also if somone has somethign to offer i want to hear about it, maybe i'll get a deal i'm looking for.

Gary

Jayne

22nd January 2006, 16:16

I just think it needs toning down a little that's all, don't think they'd mind a little now and then, just not every day :D

And why has everyone taken their banners off, he never said he's banned them?

Jayne :D

creospace

22nd January 2006, 16:19

I want to be tantalised with new banners every day not the same old thing, now there's a challange :)

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 16:20

More than one person said they didn't like banners so I felt it better to take it off. I do agree with Nigel though they can make you look more professional and as most of us were using a UKBF member to create them for us it showed we networked well on here.

I think I'll start a poll up.

creacom

22nd January 2006, 16:21

Go for it Claire because I miss mine already......:cry:

Jacqui :D

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 16:22

me too!

ewan

22nd January 2006, 16:52

Personally I don't think i'd get any more customers by advertising on these forums, i'm targeting too niche a market with my store whereas theres an awful lot of printing and design companies on here which will obviously get more custom from us crazy bunch of people.

crus

22nd January 2006, 16:55

Hi,

If anyone wants a 30 second sciupt to rotate a banner shown here in php then I have seen one on the web. Works by simply dropping banners in folder where the scipt is hosted.

Should keep creacom happy to see the images changing!

:-)

D

Tazuk

22nd January 2006, 16:58

so how are banners put in the signature?

fastfences

22nd January 2006, 17:10

Personally I don't think i'd get any more customers by advertising on these forums, i'm targeting too niche a market

Likewise, but that's not why I'm here. There is a great canerarderie and willingness to help by most on here. I truly feel you receive from the forum what you put into it.

cheers, Nigel

UK2004

22nd January 2006, 17:16

I use this forum for advice and most importantly referrals to peopel for stuff like printing, design, legal advice, I have to be honest and say big self promotion puts me off someone, I don't like being told what to do so someone saying I should use them because they are the best triggers the wrong buttons in me.

As a slihgtly off topic, does anyone feel that because they 'represent' their business here they have to be careful with their conduct, I for example would not engage in any argument now my business is in my signature, anyone else feel like this when posting?

Coding Monkey

22nd January 2006, 17:24

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 19:27

I don't think there is anything wrong with banners in sigs, except that they don't generate revenue for the upkeep of the forums and maybe stop people paying for having a placed banner when they can have it in their sig for free. Of course, the bottom line is that it is Ozzy's call.

This is the kinda thing that maybe Ozzy could charge for that would not affect PM's etc and keep most people happy.

Some of the banners are very nicely made and look good !

clairemackaness

22nd January 2006, 19:30

I'd be happy to pay a minimul fee for mine.

MinuWeb

22nd January 2006, 19:34

I'd be happy to pay a minimul fee for mine. I think most would, and maybe it would be less controversial than members areas, pm's etc. Something for Ozzy to consider.

A banner in a sig here has to be worth £20 per year per member

Rob Holmes

22nd January 2006, 19:36

For me they break up the flow of the threads.

Bit like watching channel 5 - you're a few minutes into a good film and theres another ad-break!

If I want to use someones services from the forum I wouldn't do it because they have a big shiny banner - I'd use them if I thought that they could do the job for me.

Maybe they advertise to new people more but if a new visitor keeps seeing ads everywhere theres a possibility they could view the forums as a bit spammy and members just out to get business by continually pumping their banners in their faces.

Heres a possibility...

It could even be a contributing factor to new visitors thinking they could get away with spamming and signing up and spamming the forums.

Rob

bwglaw

23rd January 2006, 07:28

As a slihgtly off topic, does anyone feel that because they 'represent' their business here they have to be careful with their conduct, I for example would not engage in any argument now my business is in my signature, anyone else feel like this when posting?

I agree entirely when relating to 'conduct'. If you are presenting your business image in public, whether on a forum, email or at a networking event there will always be an appropriate level of conduct.

Nope. I disagree with Nic on a variety of subjects, and she's a client, but I still disagree. If you don't want an opinion, don't ask and that's the only way something turns into an argument, when one side is unreasonable or gives feedback when it wasn't required. I'll come across as harsh, but if you want a website review and I think it's crap, I won't side step it and be nice just for the sake of it. If, however, it's a crap website and you don't ask for feedback, I'm not gonna say anything.

I have not decided whether to agree entirely on this point but I agree partially. However, I am of the opinion that inviting/receiving opinions is quite different from 'conduct', in fact there is a fine line between the two. It is quite possible to give an opinion in an appropriate manner without having to resort to insulting remarks that some members had to resort to in order to express themselves - this is in my opinion unprofessional conduct and reflects on the person's business.

Tom, you said you may be harsh in giving a website review (presumably if invited) one may view that you would be biased (I know you are not) because you provide web design services and one might again view it as a tout for new business, especially if they do not know you.

What is 'harsh' depends on the business and position you are in and of course how you present yourself in public. Whether one is harsh depends how the recipient perceives it. I may say that someone's site is operating illegally, would this be harsh, or the truth, or a mere tout for business?

easyasit

23rd January 2006, 11:45

i don't think Ozzy was referring to banners at all, although i realise i was taking the micheal the other week on this.

I think it is the fact that other people use the forum in a veiled way to promote their products, and at self promotion.
Perhaps not intended to be this way, but it is certainly what they are doing.
Not as obvious as MK Prinring was, these people are cleverer than this. :-)

Al

Jayne

23rd January 2006, 11:53

easyasit

23rd January 2006, 12:00

Do you want to look at my stuff Al or buy a mug or something...sorry couldn't resist, just tormenting you, i'll bugger off now to time out:lol:

Jayne

oh yes janye, post up a piccie so i can see lol

lol, a bad influence you are on me jayne, look what you just made me do ;-)

Jayne

23rd January 2006, 12:05

I'm in Time Out nothing to do with me :lol:

Sorry Ozzy :D

UK2004

23rd January 2006, 12:09

What happened to MKPrinting?

Jayne

23rd January 2006, 12:15

He was on here the other day, maybe someone has upset him?

Jayne

UK2004

23rd January 2006, 12:18

When I originally read the post on this thread I thought it was about people directly soliciting business on this forum, how come it did become a banner debate?!

Jayne

23rd January 2006, 12:21

That's what I pointed out earlier. Ozzy never said anything about banning banners at all. Think it's the actual posts he means, how people are advertising in threads and over use of offers sections etc.

Jayne :D

UK2004

23rd January 2006, 12:25

I agree Jane, when I posted couple of weeks ago certain people were 'instructing' me that I needed to buy this and that from them, it's fine to offer services but there is a line and I think some people cross it.

Jayne

23rd January 2006, 12:29

That's ecxactly what I think too and from Ozzy's post, we are not the only ones who think this :D

Jayne

clairemackaness

23rd January 2006, 12:39

MK printing is about, he just e-mailed me offering yet more cards.

By the way, you mentioned mugs in your laughy post Jayne. Would you class my thread as direct promotion? If so it's not meant to be, it is a way of helping me get stock as well as offering you a product at a real discount.

I hope I am not one of the people who this thread is directed at and if I am, please do let me know.

UK2004

23rd January 2006, 12:42

No Claire I am sure you are not someone it's aimed at, my intuition tell sme it's aimed squarely at the snidy ones who makes out they want to help when they want to line their own pockets.

billhilton

23rd January 2006, 12:50

I guess one of the problems we have here is that so much stuff is on the borderline between legitimate posts and spam. However, I think it's pretty easy to work out what's within the spirit of the rules and what's not - so I'm all for clamping down on spammers and pseudo-spammers.

MinuWeb

23rd January 2006, 13:21

Would you class my thread as direct promotion? If so it's not meant to be, it is a way of helping me get stock as well as offering you a product at a real discount. If you promote your items even for the reasons mentioned above, it has to classed as advertising and should be in the advertising forums. I could post offering web hosting at a discount as a way of getting myself more servers and offering you a service at a discount, would you consider this advertising ?

clairemackaness

23rd January 2006, 13:38

VS - I didn't ever say it wasn't advertising and the thread was posted in Offers so it was in the right place.

My question was....do people see me as a person who self promotes too much?

Ozzy

23rd January 2006, 13:49

THis is one thing I love about this place. I make a post about reducing self promotion and you guys discuss it and come up with the solution ;)

I'm reading through the forums and looking at peoples posts, and I must say the ones who put a bit of effort into a nice clean look to their signature looks so much more professional than the banner ones.

Looking at Claire's post as an example. She has a very attractive and nice looking avatar that reflects her company logo and stands out nicely without being intrusive. She has then designed her signature to fit in nicely with her avatar, and its looks clean and tidy. I would like to see this as the way to go, so I need an avatar designing now please ;)

With regards Tin post about SEO...
I only just a week or so ago made an amendment to the forums so that they could be crawled by Google, which is why the inbound links wont account for much yet. I'll also take a look at mod-rewrite as I already use on that on my main site already.

Rob (Matrixx), Alan (Alpha) and I are going to think about some guidelines for the posting self promotion.

There is also a large call for a Website Critique forum, so looks like that will be coming soon :)

Cheers,

clairemackaness

23rd January 2006, 14:01

Looking at Claire's post as an example. She has a very attractive and nice looking avatar that reflects her company logo and stands out nicely without being intrusive. She has then designed her signature to fit in nicely with her avatar, and its looks clean and tidy. I would like to see this as the way to go, so I need an avatar designing now please ;)

Thanks Ozzy! I'm well chuffed with that little bit of praise.

I have to say, although I miss my banner I do like my fab new signature and logo (thanks tom and ewan) I hope other member promotion is acceptable LOL