Thermal renders

[jfe-rendersystems]

Just a quick introduction and hello to green room users.
we are an insulated render (EWI EIFS) installer based in the north west

[LicensedToTrade]

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum, can I ask which EWI system you are currently using and who you are buying it from?

[jfe-rendersystems]

hi, I use any of the systems on the market - in most cases the system will be specified (usually decided by the architect) or if I am to consult, I would recommend the best system based on the build type/substrate/use/location etc. I use dryvit and marmorit alot as they tend to bring specifications to us. all the systems have equal offerings in their product lists

[LicensedToTrade]

Have you ever used Weber's system?

[jfe-rendersystems]

not the Thermal system but we often use the monocouche. I have spoken to the techi about sending specs to us for the EWI this summer

[LicensedToTrade]

I can arrange for a Weber EWI rep to visit you if you would like?

[jfe-rendersystems]

I have had an informal chat with andy who covers the north west and will be contacting him further soon. I was going to invite him to one of our live jobs to show him our work.
who is the rep you know? and what is your connection with weber if you dont mind me asking

[LicensedToTrade]

I have had an informal chat with andy who covers the north west and will be contacting him further soon. I was going to invite him to one of our live jobs to show him our work.
who is the rep you know? and what is your connection with weber if you dont mind me asking

Weber is one of the company's my employer owns. I work for Saint-Gobain. Are you talking about Andy Cooper?

[jfe-rendersystems]

yeah, I met him before but I want to bring him onto a big live job so he can see exactly what we are capable of. there are alot of chancers in my game you see and no supplier will approve you unless you can deliver. I am approved with dryvit/marmorit/and we are also pricing for parex and sps but we want weber approval as they are a big name in the market place as you will know

[LicensedToTrade]

Sounds good to me. I'll come along to observe if you don't mind? EWI is one of my areas of responsibility.

[jfe-rendersystems]

No problem, are you any good with a trowel?
I was an operating sole trader when I met him last time with my gang that I have gathered over the years, We are a ltd company now - I find this helps on the commercial contracts.

[LicensedToTrade]

I've been on the Weber EWI training course at Flitwick so I know how to apply the system, but it would take me twice as long as a professional to do!

[jfe-rendersystems]

Did you like trying it out? I really enjoy the work thats why I do it.
we travel around the uk also i suppose you have reps that cover different areas?

[LicensedToTrade]

Yes I did enjoy it, I just turned up to have a go. I joined a group of guys in the same position you are in that were really ramping up their efforts in this market.

Weber's external sales team is divided into 3 area in mainland UK: North & Scotland, South East, Midlands & Southwest. Andy is part of the North & Scotland area along with 7 others sales managers. In total there are a little over 20 of them covering the country.

[jfe-rendersystems]

how are the reps finding the market this yr? I find that as work dries up its harder to get approval from a new supplier as they have enough applicators to cover the contracts - supply is outstripping demand and the latest meeting with inca and government about the proposed cost of thermal upgrades on housing stock was worrying

[Impressive Creations]

JFE have you ever tried Flex-c-ment, I am the UK distributor if it is of any interest to you. Several external render companies have been on my training courses.

It's quite new in the UK and not many people have heard of it yet, although I have been really busy with installations and training.

Have a look at my website and if it interests you I can give you any further that you require

[LicensedToTrade]

Can you put an insulant behind this?

[Impressive Creations]

Yes they use it as an IRS in other area's but it has not got a BBA cert to date. When sales increase enough to justify the cost I'll apply for one. We are already halfway there with the CERAM tests.

[LicensedToTrade]

Yes they use it as an IRS in other area's but it has not got a BBA cert to date. When sales increase enough to justify the cost I'll apply for one. We are already halfway there with the CERAM tests.

In what way does it qualify to be called an insulated render? It is a catch 22 situation in that to improve your sales in any major way you will need BBA certification. Do you currently sell to any merchants? Who else do you sell to?

[Impressive Creations]

It qualifies as an IRS because of it's insulating qualities. I don't sell to merchants as we would like to keep as a specialist product and the user has to complete a a two day 'hands on training' course, although we have had several offers from merchants. Our theory is that if somebody buys it off the shelf and does not install it correctly it would not be good for sales.

I agree that a BBA would increase sales and I will apply for one when the sales justify costs, but a guarantee can still be offered. The CERAM report has very good test results and it is superior to many renders currently on the market including the renders being used commercially.

There are a couple of copies that have appeared in the last year and they are trying to flood the market, none have been lab tested or yet withstood any extreme weather conditions. Some installers of a certain product are already coming to me as their walls are losing colour, so theres a lot to be said about a tried and tested quality product.

[Impressive Creations]

I forgot to add that there are certain tests that have to be done before it would qualify under BBA criterior but it is used in about 26 countries world wide and it is only here that the criterior is so strict, and justified in many cases

[jfe-rendersystems]

What sort of demand can we expect from the product

[jfe-rendersystems]

It would be easy enough to add to our site. One of my guys is already familiar with pattern pressing techniques but only on driveways

[LicensedToTrade]

I can't imagine there is much insulation value with this product, what sort of w/mk values are you achieving?

What kind of guarentee is there?

[jfe-rendersystems]

well the product is a render and if like most modern renders (polymers) they will adhere to the thermal backgrounds such as the eps or mineralwool so it really would not be much different besides the pattern. the values dont come from the render they come from the carrier board/background

[jfe-rendersystems]

at least I think thats what impressive creations is saying - that it could be applied to an insulating carrier if need be

[Impressive Creations]

Demand I honestly cannot answer, I have a lot of domestic custom and have gained the interest of several larger companies. I have been involved with building for 25yrs and have seen products come and go, in my opinion it is the best product that I have ever used. It's not just the rendering it has so many other uses, including architectural repairs etc.

If you back a few years when K-rend, weber's, monocouche etc come on the market most people said it wouldn't work but it's everywhere now.

I have been put forward for some large contracts which would probably be to big for myself if they come off. One of them is a large water treatment works in a conservation area, who require a stone finish without the expense of natural stone, so it has many uses.

It is a different method of application and colouring in comparison to pattern imprinted concrete. It is not difficult to learn and you don't have to be a plasterer.

I offer a company guarantee but should the need arise a masterbond warranty or similar will guarantee the work.

I shall try and copy the thermal values into another post

[jfe-rendersystems]

I would be interested in the course but it would have to be when I can free up a few of the lads and we would certainly be interested in commercial contracts if there is a call for this installation

[Impressive Creations]

Thats right jfe and it will bond to any surface with an adhesive strength of 1.2N/mm2, which is .2 greater than required by the BBA.

I have been discussing Flex-c-ment with the NHBC and has already been accepted to BS EN 13914.

The CERAM tests included the hygro/thermal freeze thaw, compression and abrasion and passed with flying colours.

As said when sales justify the expense I'll apply for the BBA.

[Impressive Creations]

I normally hold the courses on a weekend so people don't have to lose work. I am not a lecturer so these courses are not all talk and a cuppa every 10 mins there is an introduction to explain the history of the product and H&S and then it is strictly hands on.

The concrete overlay will also be taught on the course.

[Impressive Creations]

Testing environment temperature 25C
Thermal conductivity coefficient 0.787

The most common texture is 20mm deep:

R Value

2cm thickness of application 0.025m2K/W