Bookkeeping

[tdurant]

Hi there,

I was on here yesterday and got some great advice....but need some more please.

I have my first client, which is great but I don't have any experiance as a bookkeeper. I have worked in Accountancy for over 15 years in various roles....Bought & Sales Ledger,Credit Control,Payroll,Bank Rec Clerk and also as a Assistant to the Accountant in my last role where I did alot of everything but nothing to justify me as a bookkeeper. I have recently qualified with the ICB though.
The thing is, is that I have taken this client on through someone I met through a networking company and accepted it as I felt it would be good for the experiance that I need in order to get more clients later. I actually did not want to start until about July this year, and so as a result, I have not registered with the money laudering, have no Insurance in place yet, have not contacted the Inland Revenue, no Sage software installed (or equivilant) and am currently awaiting business cards to be delivered and my website to be finished. I feel totally unprepared....

I started out on my own doing this so that I could be around for my children, but am wondering whether I should work as a bookkeeper for a company first in order to get the experiance.

Do you think I should turn this client down and work for a company?

Any advice would be greatly received.

Thankyou

[MyAccountantOnline]

Without meaning to be rude I think you probably already know the answer to your question.

I personally dont think you should be taking on any work you arent qualified and experienced to be doing. Its not fair on your (potential) client.

Get the experience first so that you really know what you are doing.

:)

[Philip Hoyle]

We all had to start somewhere, but most people train and gain experience under supervision, usually working for someone else. It's very dangerous to start up self employment without knowing your "trade" inside out. From what you say about your working experience and your qualifications, you probably do know enough about the basics and will probably prepare the "books" for this first client to a better level than the client would achieve if they tried to do it themselves (most do, so that's not a problem).

There are so many different levels of "book-keeping" so I'm trying not to generalise too much. What do they want you to do? If they're not VAT registered and have no employees, and otherwise have a very simple operation, I can't see you'll have many problems. However, are they expecting you to do their VAT returns and Payroll - if so, are you competent to keep the "books" to the required level? Are they engaged in any non-standard or specialised trade or industry? Do they import or export? etc. You could so easily find yourself out of your depth and not even realise it - it's quite possible for someone to plod on thinking they're doing right and not being aware of fundamentals that aren't being properly addressed.

I despair when I see incredibly simple and basic questions posted on fora like these by "book-keepers" (and sometimes even accountants come to that!!). It's not hard to find a book-keeper asking questions like "do I use VAT code T0 for insurance" which not only give the impression of someone who hasn't a clue, but also someone who doesn't know how to research the basics themselves through the software's help files.

At the very least, you need your PI insurance and to register with HMRC both for self employment and money laundering regs (unless you are already covered via ICB). You need to properly engage the client, i.e. letter of engagement, proof of identity, etc. All these are fundamentals and can't be delayed nor ignored.

So, back to basics, do you know exactly what the clients' requirements are and are they simple enough for your first time? If you are happy that they are well within your capabilities go for it. If not, then pass it by. You'll learn far more by actually doing the work yourself and learning to take responsibility for what you're doing. Unless you were planning to take on an employed book-keeping role, you'll never be more "ready" to do the work yourself - you'll be learning as you go and that's why it's important to choose your clients carefully and only take on more complex ones once you're 100% happy with the simple ones - you'll learn from every client and you'll have to build up your knowledge and skills.

With this case in question, I'd suggest you were brutally honest with the client, tell them this is your first self employed book-keeping job and that you'll be learning as you go, but also tell them how experienced you are and what your ICB qualification means. Perhaps you could suggest a discounted rate for the first, say, six months. This lessens their expectations until you can prove yourself to them (and their accountant). I can't see why the formalities should pose a problem - a couple of hours doing your T&Cs and letter of engagement, a couple of hours arranging PI insurance and likewise for registering with HMRC. Sometimes a bit of pressure works wonders - if you're always going to delay doing things until "the time is right" you'll probably never do anything ever.

[tdurant]

Just to say thanks. I am qualified, as I do have the relevant qualifications but I accept that I have no experiance.

Thanks

[Ray_Stewart]

This is scary.

I am a member of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers myself and if you are qualified as you say you should be well aware that you should not be setting up in public practice until you have your practising certificate. In order to be issued with that you will have PII cover and will know your requirements under the money laundering regulations.

I expect the membership secretary to be very interested in you flouting these rules and publicly stating you have no experience but are touting for work. anyway.

[MyAccountantOnline]

This is scary.

I am a member of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers myself and if you are qualified as you say you should be well aware that you should not be setting up in public practice until you have your practising certificate. In order to be issued with that you will have PII cover and will know your requirements under the money laundering regulations.

I expect the membership secretary to be very interested in you flouting these rules and publicly stating you have no experience but are touting for work. anyway.

Its SCARY when people dont ask!

I see nothing wrong in someone asking a genuine question and wanting other peoples points of view.

It would be a shame if people got shot down all the time for asking genuine questions on this forum.

We all know anyone, qualified or not, can call themselves an accountant - the same applies to a bookkeeper.

[Ray_Stewart]

The thing is, all these points are covered on the ICB members website in clear and simple english. It is also drummed into students as they go through the courses. I can't see how someone could come through those courses and exams and claim not to understand their responsibilities.

I am sure members of other institutes would feel the same if one of their new members used this approach to ask questions and claim not to be aware of the rules relating to public practice and moneylaundering obligations.

[kjmcculloch]

This is scary.

I am a member of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers myself and if you are qualified as you say you should be well aware that you should not be setting up in public practice until you have your practising certificate. In order to be issued with that you will have PII cover and will know your requirements under the money laundering regulations.

I expect the membership secretary to be very interested in you flouting these rules and publicly stating you have no experience but are touting for work. anyway.

Remember, that anyone can call themselves a bookkeeper, they dont NEED qualifications or to be a member of a body like the ICB. I myself, in fact, undertook the ICB qualifications and then decided for a number of reasons this was not an organisation I wished to be a part of. I registered with HMRC for ML myself and arranged insurance. I would suggest that not becoming a practicing member, or any type of member of ICB makes my qualification any less relevant.

My point, yes ICB says to use their services and crest, you need to comply with their rules, but the OP can go it alone without ICB. Yes, they do need to register with HMRC for MLR and it is advisable to have PI insurance.

Kris

[MyAccountantOnline]

I am sure members of other institutes would feel the same if one of their new members used this approach to ask questions and claim not to be aware of the rules relating to public practice and moneylaundering obligations.

You'd be surprised and I say that one who is FCCA, MAAT and ATT qualified you will see people regularly ask such questions.

My point - lets just try and help others and not put people down for asking questions. It would be a shame if this forum went the way of others out there:)

[sgrahams]

tdurant.. get some good insurance cover.. errors could be expensive.

[Alison Jones]

I might be seeing this differently to others but this part of your post:-

"I have worked in Accountancy for over 15 years in various roles....Bought & Sales Ledger,Credit Control,Payroll,Bank Rec Clerk and also as a Assistant to the Accountant in my last role where I did alot of everything"

seems a lot of varied experience in my opinion and enough to be able to set up on your own.

I had only 12 years similar experience to you when I set up my bookkeeping firm and gained clients easily enough (I did not have any really bookkeeping qualifications apart from RSA bookkeeping) only did ICB after trading for 1 year.

If you get yourself registered for Money Laundering either by HMRC or ICB I see no reason why you cannot take this client on. What I have found with my clients if they have accountants normally the accountants are happy to help you with some out of the ordinary things in the clients bookkeeping (not day to day things) and don't mind answering an email.

Alison

[GillespieBS]

An entrepreneur would take this on, an accountant would turn it away. Decide which one you are...