Run a cable or wi-fi

[lesliedocherty]

Hey,

We have turned our back stockroom into a packing area and trying to get the computer on the wireless network, using a USB wireless dongle and the reception cuts out, we get 2 bars, its only about 25-30ft from router but a few chunky walls in between.

Should i run a cable into here or buy a wireless card and instal onto computer, ideas.

[stugster]

Run a cable :)


You know the answer already, you're just hoping there's an easier way :p

[KM-Tiger]

Run a cable = best.

One other possibility is powerline networking. A pair of these (http://solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-pl-85pe-mk2.htm) would work, but not as good as a Cat5/6 cable. Recommended only where running the cable is going to be really difficult.

[cmcp]

I'd run a cable, first for performance second for security.

[lesliedocherty]

I have a set of those plug in things, got them with my BT router, but can i find them, bloody right i cant, i seen them before xmas and remember thinking id never need them.

Any ideas on good places to get 30m cable with the ends on.

[cmcp]

you'll get one for about 20 notes over the bridge at priceless.

[lesliedocherty]

good shout, will do, many thanks

[FireFleur]

Cable :) Always the better option if you can, though there are these ethernet over power cables devices if you have enough power points it might be worth a test.

[Leomas]

Got to be cable, once you have invested in the bits (crimp tool/cable/connectors/tester) you can turn out exactly the cables you want for pennies. I never understand people who use desktop machines wanting to go wireless as even ignoring the security aspect (which most of them do) you get much better connection speed and everything produced in the last 5 years or so has had an ethernet connection as standard so nothing more to buy.

[Pentangle]

Got to be cable, once you have invested in the bits (crimp tool/cable/connectors/tester) you can turn out exactly the cables you want for pennies. I never understand people who use desktop machines wanting to go wireless as even ignoring the security aspect (which most of them do) you get much better connection speed and everything produced in the last 5 years or so has had an ethernet connection as standard so nothing more to buy.

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

[cmcp]

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

Yes .

[otrcomputing]

I brought a pair of powerline adapters recently to test them out and see if it'd be worth recommending them to people who
a. Don't want to run cables all over their house/offices
b. Can't get a stable wireless signal.

Have to say pretty impressed, for £20 per adapter they work flawlessly, albeit at about 50% speed to our Cat5 network and about 75% speed to Wireless over the same distance.

That being said we had them plugged into multi plug adapters at both ends which isn't recommended - speeds achieved were still around 400-500kbps downloads, compared to 900-1200kbps on Cat5. They are literally plug in and that's it... very simple, fairly cheap and robust.

[KM-Tiger]

That being said we had them plugged into multi plug adapters at both ends which isn't recommended

No it's not.

What I've seen is that they might work OK one day, albeit rather slowly, then not work at all the next day. Never had a problem when they are plugged into a wall socket.

[LeasingEval]

If it's only for one computer - run the cable.
But if folk will have laptops, iPhones, PDA's etc in there then consider putting another wireless access point in the packing area.

[estwig]

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

Bl**dy mice gnawing at the cable, stealing your data!!

;)

[LeasingEval]

Damn mice!
I once lost the token from a token ring network the same way!

[lesliedocherty]

Got my cable from priceless, few holes in walls, bit of trunking and we now have a good packing area for our web orders, job done.

[MartCactus]

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

Yes .

I guess the issue here is it depends.

Wire is secure as you need physical access to it, whereas wifi can be picked up by neighbours etc.

Wifi however uses very strong encryption (if set up properly), whereas the data travelling down a cable probably isn't encrypted.

So which is more secure it going to depend on your circumstances.

[Emma_B]

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

this can be the case, but with the software that some people seem to be using these days, wireless can be cracked easily and most of all from outside the building. If no wireless is switched on it's more secure as a direct cabled setup.

[termsandconditions]

Would you be surprised if I told you that Ethernet is actually LESS secure than a properly configured wireless setup?

Hmmmm...yes a little surprised. Surely if the signal conducting wire pairs within the network cable were shielded as in Cat 6a upwards then I think cable would be more secure...wouldn't it? :|

Best Regards

[Emma_B]

Hmmmm...yes a little surprised. Surely if the signal conducting wire pairs within the network cable were shielded as in Cat 6a upwards then I think cable would be more secure...wouldn't it? :|

Best Regards

He must sell wireless routers :p

[MartCactus]

this can be the case, but with the software that some people seem to be using these days, wireless can be cracked easily and most of all from outside the building. If no wireless is switched on it's more secure as a direct cabled setup.

Only if you are using outdated encryption like WEP. Use WPa2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Access

Its very secure - so long as you use long random generated passwords (as with any system that uses passwords)

[Pentangle]

Hmmmm...yes a little surprised. Surely if the signal conducting wire pairs within the network cable were shielded as in Cat 6a upwards then I think cable would be more secure...wouldn't it? :|

Best Regards

My comments were aimed at those people who intrinsically think wifi is insecure purely from scare-tactic journalists and lazy admins. Wifi, as noted by a few other people on this thread, is more secure than most ethernet because whilst it might travel outside of the physical environs of the building (unless set up properly), it also travels in an ecrypted form from end to end, unlike most ethernet setups where IPSec or other forms of encryption are rare on the LAN, and security is restricted to a half-asleep security guard or an IT admin who's left ports patched or can't police the employees. FYI, stats say that one person in eleven are stealing your data in your company. Pretty hard to do with wifi and proper server security, but a lot easier to do with pre-patched network ports and a hidden sniffer or AP.

[saxondale]

FYI, stats say that one person in eleven are stealing your data in your company. .


is that one person out of every random eleven? ...................... I dont think I know eleven people.

[Pentangle]

is that one person out of every random eleven? ...................... I dont think I know eleven people.

Yep a random 11....i'm sure it's not a random 11 every time you ask though :D

[stugster]

10 minutes is all it took me to "crack" ethernet cat5 cable.

What I needed:

Physical access to the cable
A small Shuttle PC with Windows and 2 x Network Cards
My trusty splicers
Two RJ45 connectors
Wireshark

I grabbed a ethernet cable running round the desk and cut it into two. Internet dropped off. Took about 10 minutes to splice the cable and crimp the connectors on. Plug both into Satellite computer, set up ICS, open Wireshark, watch the unencrypted data flying.


Pics:

http://www.considerit.co.uk/forum-images/IMG00006-20100305-0840.jpg
Pulling the ethernet cable up from the back of the desk.


http://www.considerit.co.uk/forum-images/IMG00007-20100305-0841.jpg
Crimped cable ready for insertion

[Leomas]

My comments were aimed at those people who intrinsically think wifi is insecure purely from scare-tactic journalists and lazy admins. Wifi, as noted by a few other people on this thread, is more secure than most ethernet because whilst it might travel outside of the physical environs of the building (unless set up properly), it also travels in an ecrypted form from end to end, unlike most ethernet setups where IPSec or other forms of encryption are rare on the LAN, and security is restricted to a half-asleep security guard or an IT admin who's left ports patched or can't police the employees. FYI, stats say that one person in eleven are stealing your data in your company. Pretty hard to do with wifi and proper server security, but a lot easier to do with pre-patched network ports and a hidden sniffer or AP.


I think the issue is not so much the data being sent across the wifi but the data on the networked machines. As you say lazy admins are a part of it but also people who just don't have the depth of knowledge to secure the OS and such on all their systems. Most people use the wizards to do the setup and do not appreciate how wide open that leaves things until it is too late. How many people out their have fully disabled the standard remote desktop route into the box for example.
No wifi can be 100% secure simply because there is a broadcast exchange of security keys etc to enable permitted machines in and if someone really wants to they can crack their way through even with WEP/WPA/MAC address filter etc etc etc
I would always prefer to build wifi access into a separate domain and treat it as public facing with the relevant firewall style protection, this may seem like overkill but with business IT you can't afford to make the same mistake once.

[KM-Tiger]

10 minutes is all it took me to "crack" ethernet cat5 cable.

And you'll give cjd a heart attack when he sees that Grandstream phone!

[stugster]

The Snom I bought off him ages ago is at home ;)

[Pentangle]

I think the issue is not so much the data being sent across the wifi but the data on the networked machines. As you say lazy admins are a part of it but also people who just don't have the depth of knowledge to secure the OS and such on all their systems. Most people use the wizards to do the setup and do not appreciate how wide open that leaves things until it is too late. How many people out their have fully disabled the standard remote desktop route into the box for example.
No wifi can be 100% secure simply because there is a broadcast exchange of security keys etc to enable permitted machines in and if someone really wants to they can crack their way through even with WEP/WPA/MAC address filter etc etc etc
I would always prefer to build wifi access into a separate domain and treat it as public facing with the relevant firewall style protection, this may seem like overkill but with business IT you can't afford to make the same mistake once.

2 things:

1) You're right, but the original comment I made was about the mode of transport. However, on a network with equally locked-down servers and no data on the clients, you're likely to get more info surreptitiously through wired than wireless.

2) Have a look at certificate-based WPA2 with RADIUS authentication. Much easier to add the certificate by group policy to the relevant user's laptop when they're hardwired either on initial build or occasional site visits, and everything locked down well enough and centrally controlled - match that with a regular wifi password change that's pushed also by GPO, and the fact that WPA2 hasn't yet been cracked by anyone without a swarm of Crays, and I think you're safe to assume you'd notice the swarm of Crays turn up in the building (and you can get wifi-shielding wallpaper if you're *that* paranoid).

:)

[samklein]

Cable is always preferable to wireless. Wireless is just for convenience, cable is what you need to get real work done

[leemason]

Wired. And if you don't fancy running a cable from one room to another have a look at a couple of Homeplug adapters. If they are plugged into your ring main they can transport ethernet signals across the mains cable. Quite a neat and tidy solution. The latest series uses AES-128 bit for encryption.

[vardecreative]

I've just moved my office out into my workshop and I went for the Powerline option. They work a treat so far. Plugged straight in, no messing. I got 3 plugs for just under £100 from Maplin. I went for the Devolo pack but there may be a cheaper option that works as well.