working out the value of unique product description content

[movietub]

Hi all,

We sell a range of approx 2500 products, none exclusive to us, all are branded. We hold most in stock and manage the ordering and delivery of these items very efficiently.

Looking to improve things though! Currently virtually all product descriptions and info are copied directly from the manufacturers sites, with their permission. This is the norm in our trade, and all our competitors do the same.

I've worked out that it takes about an hour to re-write a description, short product Q&A and apply good SEO techniques to the entire page. This includes adding better and alternative images etc. Basically everything that needs to be done to elevate the product page from sufficient, to as good as any.

The problem is that means about 3000 hrs work which even at min wage will cost us 20k :redface:


If we get even a 20% increase in visitors it will pay for itself, so it's probably a good idea. Many on here would be quick to tell me that our current practice of no SEO or unique content is the worse thing we can be doing!

Has anyone else tried similar and seen the results though? As our competitors all use the same content could we jump ahead of them by investing in our own?

Thanks for any input in advance!

[dots and spots Jeff]

Just a quick thought - could you try it on a small sample of your products (say 10, that's a couple of extra hours work a day for this week) and see if it has any impact?

If it does you can begin to scale the it up across your whole range.

I'd be interested to hear how things work out if you do make any changes.

Jeff

p.s. I've no idea what you sell, but as a consumer/customer I do find it mildly annoying when shopping for something and finding the same descriptions and copy on lots of different sites. I think I would probably favour a site that has its own unique description - even if its just a few lines in addition to the standard manufacturer's blurb, but this is my own opinion and I have no evidence to back this up.

Thinking out loud, perhaps this is another area you could test:
With a group of your products -
a) Leave one group unchanged
b) Another group: replace the manufacturer's blurb with your own (taking an hour per product as per your OP).
c) Third group: keep the manufacturer's blurb but add a line or two of your own (taking about 5 minutes per product)

[movietub]

Just a quick thought - could you try it on a small sample of your products (say 10, that's a couple of extra hours work a day for this week) and see if it has any impact?

If it does you can begin to scale the it up across your whole range.

I'd be interested to hear how things work out if you do make any changes.

Jeff

p.s. I've no idea what you sell, but as a consumer/customer I do find it mildly annoying when shopping for something and finding the same descriptions and copy on lots of different sites. I think I would probably favour a site that has its own unique description - even if its just a few lines in addition to the standard manufacturer's blurb, but this is my own opinion and I have no evidence to back this up.

Thinking out loud, perhaps this is another area you could test:
With a group of your products -
a) Leave one group unchanged
b) Another group: replace the manufacturer's blurb with your own (taking an hour per product as per your OP).
c) Third group: keep the manufacturer's blurb but add a line or two of your own (taking about 5 minutes per product)

We have tried all 3! Adding a little of our own content works well, our CRM writes meta descriptions based on the first few lines of description, so we do this for all new products we add.

We have also split tested different product groups and seen a mild indication in works. It's very difficult as the products go through sweeps of popularity. We could perfect one range, increase its serp ranking and sell less because someone else has a sale on etc. Likewise, we often sell a lot of something if we are the only ones to have it in stock. People will always find us no matter how crap our SEO is if they look hard enough.

Without doing a very broad cross section of our products it's hard to prove the theory... And I literally don't have time without getting another person in.

[wood1e2]

We have also split tested different product groups and seen a mild indication in works. It's very difficult as the products go through sweeps of popularity. We could perfect one range, increase its serp ranking and sell less because someone else has a sale on etc. Likewise, we often sell a lot of something if we are the only ones to have it in stock. People will always find us no matter how crap our SEO is if they look hard enough.



Isn't that just business?


Looking to improve things though! Currently virtually all product descriptions and info are copied directly from the manufacturers sites, with their permission. This is the norm in our trade, and all our competitors do the same.


Are you writing about META Descriptions, or product descriptions?

As it does not seem clear to me which one you meaning?

For both unique content is always going to work better... As mentioned above no-one wants to read the same marketing rubbish that the product/service producer gets an agent to write.

How about going for the new/better descriptions, and adding customer comments/rating?

It may mean hundreds of hours...But rewards are possibly good...!!!!!??

What if you got a 25% increase in rankings, page 2 through to page 1 would be a singnificant increase in visitors.

What about fully directed SEO so you are top for each product, and not just product/service niche. THere would be a fall in visitors but an increase in conversion, which is better all round.

[zigojacko]

Although I have worked on websites in industries where the 'norm' is to just copy the product descriptions from the manufacturers website and indeed that is what the other competition do also; I would advise taking the time to write your unique product descriptions for your products... There is nothing worse than a whole first page in Google's SERP's of the same product each with the same copied and pasted product descriptions... You want to stand out from your competition - This really does work wonders in the long run in my experience (And apart from anything else, Google will not value your site much if you have duplicate content the same as about ten other sites)

Does your ecommerce platform not support CSV upload/downloads?

[los_design]

Why not attack the niche rather than the product?

As you say, a 20% increase will pay for itself so write some quality articles/posts/pages relating to the niche(S) after you have completed some KW research?

And, as above, always, always, write unique content not just bog standard data feed copy. Thin sites (not saying yours is one BTW) are 10 a penny and very few make a go of it.

Regards

[movietub]

Isn't that just business?

It doesn't matter what/why it is, the bottom line is it makes judging the effectiveness of the improvement across a relatively small selection of products difficult!

More than one variable can only ever lead to incomplete conclusions...

Are you writing about META Descriptions, or product descriptions?

As it does not seem clear to me which one you meaning?

Both. Our CMS generates the meta description using the first few lines of the product description. We can overide this and often do. The point is, that so long as the product description is unique, then so is the meta description.



How about going for the new/better descriptions, and adding customer comments/rating?

It may mean hundreds of hours...But rewards are possibly good...!!!!!??

What if you got a 25% increase in rankings, page 2 through to page 1 would be a singnificant increase in visitors.

What about fully directed SEO so you are top for each product, and not just product/service niche. THere would be a fall in visitors but an increase in conversion, which is better all round.

These are all the things we are already, or are now looking to do! And that is the question I am posing!

What if? How likely...? What about...

Have you experience of the benefits of using unique content in your business? Clearly its better, but as it comes at a price then it must be justified.

[dots and spots Jeff]

Without doing a very broad cross section of our products it's hard to prove the theory... And I literally don't have time without getting another person in.

Just another (bit off the wall!) thought - I see where you are coming from, its a big task to prove, or disprove, a theory one that would take a lot of time & money to pursue.

Its along time since I did my degree, but this looks like a good research problem for a student's final dissertation: starting from a hypothesis there is then designing the test, data collection, data analysis and arriving at and presenting a conclusion. As I see it, it involves three core elements: marketing (is this a better way to market a product), computer science (SEO) and business (do the numbers stack up)

Not sure how you would 'recruit' your student and if you'd be happy to put it in a student's hand, but worth a thought?

[movietub]

Why not attack the niche rather than the product?

As you say, a 20% increase will pay for itself so write some quality articles/posts/pages relating to the niche(S) after you have completed some KW research?

And, as above, always, always, write unique content not just bog standard data feed copy. Thin sites (not saying yours is one BTW) are 10 a penny and very few make a go of it.

Regards

We are building up reviews and general related content slowly. We are slowly building a loyal community who are starting to contribute in fact!

Your final comment is the one that I hear all the time - I even say it myself to other people! Unique content, content is king...

The thing is, we are attracting 1k visitors per day, and converting very well as it is. So where we go now needs serious thought. It's going to cost 20k p/a to generate and maintain top quality content. You have to understand that part of me wonders if that would be better going to the affiliates, or PPC campaigns. Magazine advertising etc.

So I thought it easier to come on here and simply ask if anyone else has done the same - and what the results were!

[wood1e2]

Without knowing fully what you website is, your niche, competitors, it is hard to say what would be good or not.

Apart from the obvious:

Unique Content
Visitor interaction
Keyword matching the actual content
Variation on on content
Clean coding

Will all add to improving your ranking.

As for the likely returns, how can any of us say without knowing more detail.

Once again the higher the ranking the greater the visitors, the more relevant the content the more conversions you will get. And lower bounce rate.

Get good ranking with general keywords, with good long tail keywords you will increase your visitor numbers and conversion.

On that basis alone I would be looking at changing the descriptions, bit product and META.

The META Descriptions I would possibly make more attractive than the product descriptions, as people do notice the META descriptions in the search results.

In the product descritpions, visitors want the description, not additional sales patter.

Doing no SEO is going to lead to your site not achieveing as much as you think it should.

And if you have been dead set about doing no SEO, why should you be concerned about doing some? As doing it will improve your ranking!!! Or at least should as long as you do everything white hat!! :)

[los_design]

We are building up reviews and general related content slowly. We are slowly building a loyal community who are starting to contribute in fact!

Good stuff, but I was thinking more general than specific.

Your final comment is the one that I hear all the time - I even say it myself to other people! Unique content, content is king...
I did not say I invented the thought LOL. But there is a reason it is commented on so regularly ;)


The thing is, we are attracting 1k visitors per day, and converting very well as it is. So where we go now needs serious thought. It's going to cost 20k p/a to generate and maintain top quality content. You have to understand that part of me wonders if that would be better going to the affiliates, or PPC campaigns. Magazine advertising etc.

As stated, more niche details would be needed to comment accurately on this.

So I thought it easier to come on here and simply ask if anyone else has done the same - and what the results were!

I have done the same, if by this you mean advertise products. But once again, it is a bit too vague to give a specific reply.

Best wishes
Daren

[movietub]

Without knowing fully what you website is, your niche, competitors, it is hard to say what would be good or not.

Apart from the obvious:

Unique Content
Visitor interaction
Keyword matching the actual content
Variation on on content
Clean coding

Will all add to improving your ranking.

As for the likely returns, how can any of us say without knowing more detail.

Once again the higher the ranking the greater the visitors, the more relevant the content the more conversions you will get. And lower bounce rate.

Get good ranking with general keywords, with good long tail keywords you will increase your visitor numbers and conversion.

On that basis alone I would be looking at changing the descriptions, bit product and META.

The META Descriptions I would possibly make more attractive than the product descriptions, as people do notice the META descriptions in the search results.

In the product descritpions, visitors want the description, not additional sales patter.

Doing no SEO is going to lead to your site not achieveing as much as you think it should.

And if you have been dead set about doing no SEO, why should you be concerned about doing some? As doing it will improve your ranking!!! Or at least should as long as you do everything white hat!! :)

All comes down to the same thing as I said a little while ago though, we know it will improve the site - but so will many things we could do with the same budget.

There seem to be an army of people saying do it, but as yet not one that has done so and has seen real results!

[los_design]

All comes down to the same thing as I said a little while ago though, we know it will improve the site - but so will many things we could do with the same budget.

There seem to be an army of people saying do it, but as yet not one that has done so and has seen real results!

Not quite true.

I have done it sometime ago on a little site of mine.

I used to pump auto data feeds into an affy site and got nowhere, then I switched to CUSTOM meta's AND added niche articles and it went from £0 per month to £600 per month in just over 8 weeks. (not in one jump I might add...)

And this was in a highly competitive marketplace and was only a testing model.

It took me less than 1 week to manipulate the core data via MA db work and republish.

Oh, and I spent £0 on advertising.

HTH

[wood1e2]

Search Google for any term from any niche for anything....and the chances are that more people than not would have done something for On Site SEO or Off Site SEO.

There is all the proof you need!!!

The chances of website owners not having done anything and getting a top5 ranking are slim. Although their chances would be greater if it is a highly uncompetitive niche...so just changing the page titles possibly worked for them!!

Obviously organic SEO is not as quick as PPC, but it will create benefits eventually.

Maybe do a mixture? If you are unconvinced with SEO.

[movietub]

Search Google for any term from any niche for anything....and the chances are that more people than not would have done something for On Site SEO or Off Site SEO.

There is all the proof you need!!!

The chances of website owners not having done anything and getting a top5 ranking are slim. Although their chances would be greater if it is a highly uncompetitive niche...so just changing the page titles possibly worked for them!!

Obviously organic SEO is not as quick as PPC, but it will create benefits eventually.

Maybe do a mixture? If you are unconvinced with SEO.

Well we have done some digging, and we can see examples of it having worked for other people in our industry. I accept and understand the value of SEO and unique content too.

The frustration is that we could convert more if we spent the same money on increasing stock. So however the cash is spent there is a good chance we could get a good result but not the best result.

But I guess thats business!!!!

I'm now edging towards the SEO route. It may not be the biggest bang for buck immediatley, but I can see that it will also help to improve the effectivness of any other improvments we make down the line.

I'm thinking that a PPC campaign will convert a lot better if our descriptions are better and unique, for example.

Ahh well, time for a chat with the business partner about the 20k bonus we were eyeing up :rolleyes:

[los_design]

Well we have done some digging, and we can see examples of it having worked for other people in our industry. I accept and understand the value of SEO and unique content too.

The frustration is that we could convert more if we spent the same money on increasing stock. So however the cash is spent there is a good chance we could get a good result but not the best result.

But I guess thats business!!!!

I'm now edging towards the SEO route. It may not be the biggest bang for buck immediatley, but I can see that it will also help to improve the effectivness of any other improvments we make down the line.

I'm thinking that a PPC campaign will convert a lot better if our descriptions are better and unique, for example.

Ahh well, time for a chat with the business partner about the 20k bonus we were eyeing up :rolleyes:

Just as a sub note, many people hate them and loads love them but if you are looking for a great way to increase your conversions look at a tried and tested product page on Amazon...these boys know how to convert!

I bet you have already seen them but they used a formula and have stuck by it for donkeys years! Why, coz it works.

SEO, product pages, upselling and PPC are all part of a finite mix to make a success and I wish you well with your efforts.

Regards
Daren

HTH

[roibot]

In my experience there are 4 way to get on to page 1 of google for branded, commodity items, that have nothing unique about them, when you have many hundreds or thousands, without doing 'traditional' SEO

In order of costs
1. Cheapest. Google Merchant Centre (aka Google Shooping) free service from Google, normally simple to set up for most carts with inexpensive software (project cost £100-£200). If your not doing it - why not?
2. next Cheapest. Sell on e-bay. Costs approx 10%, you have paypal or credit card fees on top, small monthly recurring costs. Includes all marketing costs
3. Sell on Amazon, 15% includes finance costs so isn't as expensive as it seems when you compare like for like. Small monthly recurring cost.
4. Adwords, difficult to be specific about costs / ROI as it does vary from market to market, highly qualified ads can do very well I had one product costing me just half a percent of revenue, yet my average was around 20% of revenue. And of course, the management effort and skill level required, with many products, is very high.

The OP says that an increase of 20% of visitors will pay for a £20k project. My experience is that a 20% increase in visitors, does not necessarily mean a 20% increase in sales. My experience with retail non-unique commodity selling online, is the customers are very price sensitive, down to a few pence, and loyalty and quality of service are very much secondary to an online shop.

I'm not saying don't do traditional SEO, but as another poster suggested, experiment in small chunks and measure the ROI.

I had an online business with 1,200 commodity stock lines, I don't do it any more - you need economies of scale and buying power to get the best margins so you can outdo your competitors. A tough game.

[freshpurple]

If I remember rightly you switched to Magento for your store recently didn't you? You could always try using the Google Optimizer integration to split-test different product descriptions (obviously have to pick something with good traffic and sales to start with though...) - then you would know roughly what kind of conversion rate improvement you could expect.

If it is good enough, independent of any SEO benefit and consequent traffic improvements then you've just proved that it will be profitable. If not, then at least you know what traffic boost you would need on top.

We did this a while back and basically worked out that we need to approximately triple our traffic before it was worthwhile getting a professional copywriter in, so haven't gone ahead, though we are slowly working on improving the descriptions ourselves whenever we have a minute.

Be interested to learn how it works out for you.

[Tin]

Guys, in case you didn't know - the thread is 2 years old. Maybe the original issue the OP needed advice on has been sorted?