Bookkeeping Spreadsheet - Release to Clients [Archive]

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onyourside

12th February 2010, 09:57

MyAccountantOnline

12th February 2010, 10:04

Please forgive me if this has been covered before.
I have a client who I prepare Tax and VAT Returns for demanding that I send him the spreadsheet (Excel) that I have used to calculate his Tax - I am offering a PDF to protect the formulas tha I use.
Can you confirm if he can demand to see the formulas I use?
Any assistance much appreciated.
Regards
Dave
On Your Side PA Services

Hi Dave

I cant really see why you wouldnt want to let the client see the details to be honest, but legally I am uncertain as to whether he can insist he see's this.

Nicola

elainec100@cheapaccounting

12th February 2010, 10:18

David Griffiths

12th February 2010, 10:28

I certainly wouldn't give away a spreadsheet, whether it be a simple one for working out taxes or a complicated one that I've developed for cash flow forecasts. The client certainly isn't entitled to demand it.

If I've developed a tool to help me with my business the client isn't entitled to have the tool - it's the results that have been charged for

NextPoint

12th February 2010, 10:52

I'm with David on this one - what the client is asking for would be the same as them asking Elaine to hand over the code of the web accountancy system she developed.

If they want the spreadsheet, why not provide them with a static version and provide them with information about how you have created the calculations - that way you get the best of both worlds in which they get a spreadsheet that they can use to make alterations and you get to protect the tools you have developed. You could sell them additional features in the spreadsheet at an extra cost.

PhillyDee

14th February 2010, 03:45

And dont be tempted to just lock the cells so the calculations cannot be seen. It takes a few minutes to find a tool that strips the protection off. I know, I have one!

SajjadAhmad

14th February 2010, 15:24

Dear onyourside

Please forgive me if this has been covered before.
I have a client who I prepare Tax and VAT Returns for demanding that I send him the spreadsheet (Excel) that I have used to calculate his Tax - I am offering a PDF to protect the formulas tha I use.
Can you confirm if he can demand to see the formulas I use?
Any assistance much appreciated.
Regards
Dave
On Your Side PA Services

The client data is client's right to see. But formulas in excel files or the source code of the programs you used to do annual accounts, VAT, Payroll etc are neither client's asset nor he legally qualifies to see them.

I hope this shall satisfy your question. But, as far as I know, the same set of rules and laws applies to you as they applies to the applications such as Sage one.

SajjadAhmad

14th February 2010, 15:28

I with Nicola - why not let him see the detail. How to work out tax is not some massive secret. :)

In the interests of maintaining a good client relationship me thinks you might be cutting off your nose here :p

Dear, the formulas are really a GREAT asset. To be quite hones, the client should not insist to see them. If he want to figure out how the tax has been calculated, we can explain it to him in details.

limessl

14th February 2010, 16:35

You're making accountancy seem like an arcane art that is only practised in ivory towers. Just because the client can see HOW you've calculated the tax does in no way mean they will

a) understand it
b) be able to use the formula to save themselves money in the future
c) even be able to figure out whether you're right or wrong.

More pertinent is WHY they want to see it - don't they trust your figures? (Not meant as a personal slur)

RBS

14th February 2010, 17:53

If I suspected something wrong, I would ask for that information. If my accountant would refuse, I would change him stright away. Tax isn`t right thing to play games about. If you believe you know what you are doing, then you have nothing to hide.

David Griffiths

14th February 2010, 18:10

It's one thing to give a copy of the calculations. Quite different to give a free copy of a spreadsheet that may have taken some time to develop, or which may have been bought in meaning that you don't have the right to pass it on.

It wouldn't arise for me in connection with tax because we do our calculation within the proprietary software that we pay for. However it did occur quite recently when I prepared cashflows for a new business. That uses a complex spreadsheet which I've developed over several years and with a high degree of flexibility in the parameters that drive the cashflow. The client asked for a copy of the sheet, but while I happy to provide printouts of the relevant backup parts of the sheet I explained that I couldn't just give away the whole sheet. (Amongst other things, it wasn't developled with instructions for other people to use it, and they'd probably not be able to) There was no problem with this.

Synergy Accountancy

14th February 2010, 22:20

In my view clients must know what they will sign off.

Regards,
Dev
Synergy Accountancy LLP

(http://www.synergyaccountancy.com/)

Persevere

14th February 2010, 22:28

Atilla

14th February 2010, 22:44

Highlight all of the data that you don't want him to have the formulas for, copy it, then click "edit", followed by "Paste Special" then click "Values". All the formulas should now be taken out and replaced with "hard coded" values.

Ditto. Works a treat.
Recipient gets all the data they asked for, only if they go digging do they notice the lack of formula.

One problem with handing over the working spreadsheet is they can 'play' with it. They make changes, deny it but blaame you for making the errors in the calculations.

NextPoint

14th February 2010, 23:59

Ditto. Works a treat.
One problem with handing over the working spreadsheet is they can 'play' with it. They make changes, deny it but blaame you for making the errors in the calculations.
Have you thought about providing your clients with an online account with your website? You could use this to allow them to access non-editable information about their accounts, allowing them to see the information they require, but without being able to edit it. If they produced another document accusing you of providing incorrect information, then you have your online system to prove what the originals are.

Richard231

15th February 2010, 07:14

We never provide spreadsheets (or word come to mention it), only pdf's - more so the info can't be changed than anything else.
even if asked 'can you send that spreadsheet over' we'll send a pdf - never had any probs.
If they demand to see the actual formulas as opposed to talking it through with you, I would say that it's an indication that they are considering doing it themselves - does this sound a possibility?

David Griffiths

15th February 2010, 08:24

- more so the info can't be changed than anything else.

It can be changed, actually, unless you password protect the pdfs that you send out.

Richard231

15th February 2010, 12:47

Oh, looks like I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday!

yorkshirejames

16th February 2010, 09:28

There are two points of view here, and I think I can see them both.

One is that the accountant may well have developed a tool (whether a simple spreadsheet with formulae, or something much more involved). I agree with past posters that this is as much their own private material as the coca cola recipe is.

The other point of view is that "you're telling me to pay £2,000 tax-how do I know you're right" - and I'm not really sure what the right answer is here. In many ways, I think "I'm the professional you trust me" - others may scream at this, but when I go buy a loaf of bread I don't expect to be able to examine the dough and peer into the oven - I trust the finished product.