How Important is Good English?

[RedArc]

A recent thread in the introductions sparked off a bit of a debate about the use of English and spelling mistakes on websites. As a writer, I thought it would be interesting to expand on this.

So ... how important is the `written word' in your business? Are you conscious of English usage on the web? Is good writing important to you as a seller or a buyer?

I believe that good writing can be powerful so it would be great to hear your views.

Carol

[Coding Monkey]

I believe that good writing can be powerful so it would be great to hear your views.

Carol

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

I have very little doubt that a talented copywriter will increase your sales, apart from in maybe some absolutely bizarre situation.

It's a hard one to say, as it will depend on the user. If I noticed a spelling mistake on Amazon, I'd think little of it. If I noticed hundreds of spelling mistakes on Amazon, I'd suddenly wonder who they were employing. Yet, the first time I visit a website, I'm susceptible to all factors and poor spelling will influence me. Bad content will certainly influence me. I won't go into the characteristics of design, as this thread should focus purely on the tex, but in basic terms, great content with an awful design isn't very effective.

I'd pay a copywriter every single time, as I know they'll make me more money

[easyasit]

i know i am a huge offender when it comes to typos esp weh i type online, as no doubt many of you have already noticed.
Some of the typos you see are dliberate and down to lazyness i guess.

Yes i agree i think the importance of good clear, oral and written English cannot be over stated in business. From the Clarity and flow of ur web page to any brochures you give out to clients.

I have fallen time and time again into this trap, and do try. I now have an English Dictionary on my Desk, looking to get a portable electronic one as well.

i think personally it gets quite embarrassing to be caught out on spelling mistakes. I try to learn the spelling of words i often get wrong.

Al

[easyasit]

ps, my written English has been a pain for years, one person even compared my writing to that of the leg prints of a drunken spider.

i laugh it off, though secretly i do find it embarrassing.
I have attempted to change pens see if this works, i think though it was another reason i went into IT. No need to write anything down then.

Oddly enough many of you know my wife is a doctor, but it is she who has the neatest writing of the two!

If i was to identify a reason for this, it goes back to my uni days wen i used to frantically write everything down or miss out. No one understood the "code" except me, which did have its uses. Mean;t no one asked to borrow my notes. lol

There you go

Al

[Cornish Steve]

If I noticed a spelling mistake on Amazon, I'd think little of it.
I go nuts when I find a spelling or grammatical error at a site. Such an error is rather like a coffee stain: it's obvious to everyone and it's unprofessional. Loose grammar, to me at least, implies slack standards. Having said that, I appreciate Al's points; what counts is the effort that is made to communicate clearly and accurately.

In our business prototype, we've been running a suite of interactive online courses in business communication (in fact, if anyone is interested in joining us free of charge, we begin a couple of 4-week courses on presentations next weekend). You wouldn't believe how much difference it makes when someone follows simple principles and guidelines.

It has been said by a well-known business leader that "good communication is the art of leadership". I agree completely.

[Cornish Steve]

As an example, take a look at the following announcement that I copied verbatim from the baggage claim area of the world's busiest airport. What impression does it create? Depending on how you interpret it, there are at least six grammatical errors.

"Many baggage looks alike, verify your claim check. Claim oversize baggage articles such as skis, golf clubs and pet containers at the Oversize Baggage Claim area near carousel no. 3 or no. 9 respectively."

[Jayne]

I find English hard sometimes, the spelling is the worse. I use the grammar and spell check, but it doesn't always correct everything. I don't worry though now, I've found the lovely Steve to correct my cock ups, he like an Hawk when it comes to English, he's brilliant :D

Jayne

[mumper]

MacMyDay wrote:
in basic terms, great content with an awful design isn't very effective.


I agree with Mac on this point, but I generally feel that some web designers think that it's enough to have a brilliant looking site and don't worry about the text because they think it's not important.

I am not a web designer and don't think I could ever master it - and I salute the ones that have, but graphics and copy are there to compliment each other, not compete for prominence.

[Coding Monkey]

I generally feel that some web designers think that it's enough to have a brilliant looking site and don't worry about the text because they think it's not important.

I am not a web designer and don't think I could ever master it - and I salute the ones that have, but graphics and copy are there to compliment each other, not compete for prominence.

The last point is the most important. Design is what you first see. Your opinions are formed on its reliability (and I said I wouldn't go too far into it, so will stop there), whereas content is what sells you the service. One without the other is quite useless; you can't sell something that people don't believe in, and you can't make something believable if they don't know what it's about.

[Amber]

Such an error is rather like a coffee stain: it's obvious to everyone and it's unprofessional. Loose grammar, to me at least, implies slack standards.

I totally agree! I'm sometimes amazed by the spelling and grammar on so-called professional sites, and it does put me off. I find myself thinking, "Well, if they didn't care enough to even get their spelling right, what else won't they care about?" It creates a very bad impression, and I always cringe when I see people spending a fortune on a professional website and then clearly balking at the cost of copywriting or proofreading.

[RedArc]

Thanks for all your replies. I find words and communication fascinating. Even though I'm a writer, I'm not a proof-reader and I do make mistakes occasionally. If they are brought to my attention, I will correct them where possible. And hell, I even like to break grammatical rules (where appropriate) from time-to-time.

The Internet has certainly brought about a need for good, clear and effective communication. I think it is especially important for professional / business websites to strive for excellence in their English usage yet many don't even budget for writers, proofreaders and copyeditors. Great content can make a real difference and is just as important as the look and design.

A friend sent me the following, which I believe has already been widely circulated. I'm not sure who takes credit for this but it's a wonderful reminder of just how interesting and fun English is, or at least our interpretation of it:-

"Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe."

[Jayne]

That's easier to read than real english Carol :lol:

Jayne

[ewan]

That is so cool :D

[Joyous]

In my line of work a good command of English, both written and oral is vital.

I often have to explain detailed financial information that is complicated enough without being confused further by bad English. I think it's all to do with credibility. People are less likely to take you seriously if you can't put a decent sentence together.

Regards

Joy

[fastfences]

Hi there. To me, basic english grammar is the foundation of communication. We are more often than not judged by the means in which we communicate. I believe it matters not whether we are a trolley boy in Tesco or a company director; the manner of good articulation is essential.

I am one who's offerred 'spelling feedback' to a number of members. Most will readily accept a 'typo' or flaw, yet others will become highly defensive of their 'product' and offer the now well worn cliches' of: 'as long as you understand it' or 'spelling doesn't matter.' Well, it does matter!

The problem though, is not necessarily with the writer, it is way before that. The education system! If there were more emphasis on ensuring students left school armed with good english comprehension, we would not have the 'half-baked' written expression we now observe. I think we must, unforunately, acknowledge that poor english is here to stay :cry: .
Cheers, Nigel

[coxadmin]

I hate to see spelling or grammatical errors, particularly in print or on websites. Recently I decided against ordering something from a website because there were too many spelling errors in the Terms and Conditions.

[easyasit]

to be honest
I think the advent of email, and text messaging, and sending IMs has bought with it a whole new language of talking.
Now seems to also be the culture of gettng thr message across with thr least amount of effort. For example, how many type this in a conversation with someone

ur = You Are
M8 = mate
brb = Br Right Back
2 b = self explanatory.

All these things also contribute to poor english, this kind of cyber shortand that has been developed.
So in the even of ones brain getting used to reading it, you end up even writing formal letters like it as well.
So i would say in summary it is not just down to lazyness, it is also down to the culture that we are in today.
We all say how we despise bad use of grammer. In time the way we are going, how many will remeber what this is?
I am a prime offender when it comes to bad spelling, and perhaps punctuation. I for one would be more than happy to take time out to improve on this. To go on like it would be an embarrassment.

As far as veral grammar is concerned, i am notorious on this. I find myself forever correcting my nephew, neice and wife. My wife has an excuse though in so far as English is not her first language :-)

Al

[RedArc]

Jayne ... the quote is great fun. Only wish I'd come up with that one. :)

Nigel ... the way communication is evolving, I expect it won't be long before we're seeing novels written in text language. Now that's a scary thought! :shock:

[Coding Monkey]

Nigel ... the way communication is evolving, I expect it won't be long before we're seeing novels written in text language. Now that's a scary thought! :shock:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4445088.stm

Hmmmm

[RedArc]

Tom ... I guess it had to happen. Now I am worried! :(

[Richard Conyard]

bloody awful really :-( Taking great prose and running it through the mincer.

Answering the original question I would consider good english essential. There are a few individuals that have posted on here over the previous few months who I am sure are quite bright, but their spelling and grammar (or lack thereof), make them seem like idiots. I know mine needs improving, but if these people seriously want to get ahead in business they might want to look to going back to school.

[ewan]

Surely you've heard of the txt bible (http://www.biblesociety.com.au/smsbible/index.html)? :D

I try to go over all the grammer in any websites I make, and I'll certainly run through every word of my webstore when it goes online. Browsing a webstore with lots of gramatical errors can obviously make the buyer doubt the professionalism with which the business is run.

The terms and conditions of webstores are an area where the grammer should really be perfect. The writer needs to make a clear and gramatically perfect text which could ultimately be used as a legal defense for the business owner. I've been quite surprised by how badly some terms I've come across have been written.

[Urban Space]

Ha! That's not how people text lol! Silly Americans :lol:!

Liam

[silverpuresilver]

Couldn't agree more. Spelling is extremely important, as is grammar - however, spelling is much more easily rectified, with a dictionary - grammar is a little more difficult.

I went back to college as a mature student to study a French course. The young French teacher was absolutely appalled that we couldn't comprehend how to form a 'past-historical' or 'conditional' phrase in French. We found it difficult as we didn't know what they were in English - she was not amused!!!

I know it's sad, but I have felt the need to mention bad grammar and spelling is some instances. One recent event was the the mis-spelling of 'your' on a poster in our local shop. I pointed out the error, and surprisingly, it was corrected the next day - your'e!!!! :shock:

Karen

[mumper]

the way communication is evolving, I expect it won't be long before we're seeing novels written in text language. Now that's a scary thought!

I can't even bring myself to use abbreviated text language when I send a message on my mobile - It takes a bit longer but I have to use proper English.

[Joyous]

I can't even bring myself to use abbreviated text language when I send a message on my mobile - It takes a bit longer but I have to use proper English.
Same here! Thank goodness for that, I thought I was the only one.

[VeryMark]

Hourses for courses, I use language in the appropriate context - as do most people.

Tho I mst admt tht txtng gos agnst th grain!

But if you want to be understood and appreciated universally, you need to be able to write/speak properly.

[fastfences]

Hourses for courses, I use language in the appropriate context - as do most people.


Huh? Hourses? And what context is that, Philip? :wink:
Cheers, Nigel

[VeryMark]

Alright Nigel, there's no damn spell checker, it's past my bedtime and yours and I'm on my second glass of whisky lol.

Prithee do not thou take offence! For if words lead to an exchange of lead, then spelling would surely lead to a prison spell that would make time hang leaden.

[Hedgehog Toys]

Eye personilly fink dat gud inglish elps yer ta get de sales mate.....

just a bit of scouse english...lol

[Urban Space]

Tho I mst admt tht txtng gos agnst th grain

Where do you lot get this from?! That's not texting! :x!! Sigh!

And it doesn't take any longer to text than to write in standard english, it becomes second nature!!

Liam

[mumper]

And it doesn't take any longer to text than to write in standard english, it becomes second nature!!


It's because texting is becoming second nature that correct English usage is going down the pan. :roll:

[easyasit]

As a scientist, i have become used to using shorthand notation.
I guess as crude as it sounds if i get the message across, this to me is all that matters.
A different case on Websites and other formal material, but for standard informal communication, i use th shorthand
If this makes sense

Al