Whats the Best E-Commerce Package? [Archive]

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Zenicman

5th February 2010, 17:22

3cellhosting

5th February 2010, 17:27

Hi Kevin

I always advise clients to consider what they are selling before recommending any package.

Actinic has always been long winded to set up. OSCommerce is not as flexible for designs. I have never used the other two you mentioned.

I have used EROL and that was good but is now a bit dated as it still cannot handle electronic downloads.

I would make a list of 'must have', 'should have' and 'could have' then see which fits best. The learning curve is then less daunting.

Hope this helps.

David

benjamin_c

5th February 2010, 17:29

i'm currently considering using tiger commerce, it looks pretty good, take a look www.tigercommerce.co.uk

Zenicman

5th February 2010, 17:30

Hi David,

Thanks for this, It will be selling over 8000 products and will need to be updated every day. It needs to be modern and have a very fresh look.

Gratis Guidance

5th February 2010, 17:52

There are two points I make to people who ask this question.

Firstly, how many other websites use this software? The larger the number of operating online stores, the more chance that all the bugs and security bugs have been found or dealt with.

Secondly, the more obvious the site is to use, the more likely you are to get customers through the whole buying process. Abandoned carts - where someone picks something to buy but never actually orders the goods due to user frustration is a major problem which is not really highlighted by application sellers.
Think of it like a supermarket in a strange town. It is very easy to find what you want because everything is kept in the same places - within reason. Your online store needs to be the same.

The more popular the application is, the more it encourages your customers to go through the same process which makes them feel more comfortable.

I hope that makes sense! :)

Basically, it might be worth while looking at what application you competition is using and see if you can get an easier one!!

I am also more likely to suggest that the look isn't THAT important - remember both eBay and Amazon are as ugly as hell, but seem to be making a few quid!! :)

quikshop

5th February 2010, 18:06

I would make a list of 'must have', 'should have' and 'could have' then see which fits best. The learning curve is then less daunting.

Couldn't agree more, lots of Ecommerce solutions have flag-bearers and glossy websites (including ours (http://www.internetretailer.biz) :D)but finding the right solution for your needs is important... and a list of must-have features is a good way of thinning out the choices.

WhiskyFive

5th February 2010, 18:12

Zen Cart is based on osCommerce (which is now a dead project) - so you can forget about osCommerce immediately.

I don't personally like actinic - and of course you have to pay for it.

I don't know OpenCart - but I found a blog which discusses it versus Zen:
http://onlinemarkhk.blogspot.com/2008/12/opencart-vs-magento-vs-zen-cart.html

My experience is that Zen Cart is a really good, fully functional and pretty secure open source cart.

The template system is incredibly good - meaning you can reskin a site very easily - and can do so without needing to know too much PHP.

If you want another option - there's lots of good stuff being said about Prestashop right now - or you can use VirtueMart (also based originally on osCommerce) - which is a Joomla plug-in: I had a play around with it, and its very good.

Zenicman

5th February 2010, 18:16

it must be able to accept all major cards.

Musts -

Easy Navigation
Featured Products
Special Offers
Newsltter Facility

Must have customer accounts etc the main site we will be going up againist is www.realraptors.co.uk

benjamin_c

5th February 2010, 18:17

http://www.tigercommerce.co.uk/ecommerce-website-comparison this shows a comparison between some of the main players in the template shop market. worth a look

Zenicman

5th February 2010, 19:11

Thanks,

I tried Zen cart but It doesnt seem to let you control things like page names and meta i could be wrong

Steve Cool

5th February 2010, 19:26

I have been playing with tiger commerce for a while now, give it a try. I think there is a free 1 month trial and if you like it it is only £20 (ish) a month.
It does everything in your list and simple to use even for an amateur like me.
Have a look on their forum (http://forum.tigercommerce.co.uk/).

Steve

WhiskyFive

5th February 2010, 21:45

You're wrong ;-)

You can set individual page names and meta tags...but its a bit fiddly - there is an override file for meta tags and page titles in meta_tags.php.

Using the EZPages plugin is a lot easier for pages created using a standard template - but you may still need to go back to the meta tags override.

So...you've got full control....but Zen does fall down over admin usability - it is pretty messy and complicated - even without having to edit php files directly.

Zenicman

6th February 2010, 11:08

Thanks Whisky you seem to know your stuff.

3cellhosting

6th February 2010, 11:16

Raw Rob

6th February 2010, 13:12

Thanks,

I tried Zen cart but It doesnt seem to let you control things like page names and meta i could be wrong

As WhiskyFive says, it does, although it is a feature that was added relatively recently so if you were looking at an old version it might not have been there. It's not obvious at first, but once you get your head around it, it's fine.

(Although to edit the title and meta tags of the home page, you still need to edit a php template file.)

Rob

cellweb

6th February 2010, 14:23

What about using Joomla with Virtuemart?

This gives you complete control over all of the aspects you mention. Plus the Joomla side allows you to create an area of the site dedicated to articles/blogs and information. Always a benefit if content is good as there are many Virtuemart modules that will display products anywhere you like in Joomla.

Virtuemart also has the usual featured products; associated products etc.

Also gives you full control over metas and user friendly urls.

If you need more information I can give you temporary access to a sample setup (wouldn't be until tomorrow though).

Hope this helps

David

I went through an exercise recently about what cart to use, the answer as always depends on your requirements.

I did a site recently that specifically need CMS + ecommerce + tweaked for ease of us. This just needed a simple payment option, ie there was only one product being sold.

The opposite of this was another that was created, this didnt need so much CMS content - but did require a fair amount of customisation.

The decision you need to make is :-
What payment gateways does the software offer ?
How much product customising do you need
Can you add multiple photos / video per product
Are there add ons - ie a zoom in facility for some images
What is the support forums like - you want busy ones
Try and establish if there is a new version about to come out.
And in our case check out if 1 product with many many options doesnt knacker your database (prestashop)
Download and use free 30 days versions of code and see if you can do what you want before you part with your hard earned cash. Good luck.

Have you looked at (in no particular order)
zencart, prestashop, click cart pro, Magento - or even just a simple paypal shop?
http://www.h4house.co.uk (http://www.h4house.co.uk/) - selling your own house

FreelanceSoftwareDeveloper

6th February 2010, 18:08

I am currently setting up a site using Zen, I have basic php knowledge and have been able to swap the date to UK format and change the weight to Kgs.

The main feature that caught my attention was the targetted email options such as messages to groups who have purchased in past 3 months, not purchased for over 3 months, registered but never purchased.

I don't like the admin side though, spent about 20 minutes today searching for the option that hides prices unless registered, there are items in the information box on the site which don't live in the define pages area, another annoyance to get rid of.

I also couldn't understand why the text on the main page consists of both a define block in the php and the area on the define pages.

As other have said, the key is choosing something that will meet your requirements. I spent many hours setting up a site with CubeCart 3 but it just didn't have the features and had some Paypal bugs that just meant it wouldn't work for me.

fairestcape

10th February 2010, 13:20

Over the last 6 years I have built and configured webshops using many of the popular opensource platforms, and have found Zen Cart to be the most reliable.

Agreed, the Admin Panel is "cumbersome" and takes some learning, and getting a really professional-looking custom front-end requires more than just a "smattering" of php and css knowledge.

But ZC counts where it matters most... hacker-resistance, robust performance and general functional reliability.

Since its inception in late 2003, over 1.4 million people have downloaded ZC software off SourceForge. This is nearly 6 times greater than its nearest rival (OsC - which is now obsolete). Various (unverified) extimates put the number of webshops based on ZC worldwide at about 750,000.

So ZC is popular - even though it may not have the "visual panache" of Magento (which is extremely difficult to install, customise and configure).

At the end of the day, your choice must be based on what offers the greatest degree of hacker-resistance, security and ease-of-use for your customers. ZC maintains a fairly conventional template structure that is universally understood by webshoppers. This familiarity is important because customers (people) are creatures of habit. They like webshops that "act" in ways they are used to.

Many of my clients try to pressure me into creating customisations that depart from these conventions, saying that they "don't want their site to look like all the others" - but ironically, the standard format and procedure is precisely what customers want!

I'm sure all of us have visited webshops that are like some cryptic maze, where it's difficult (or impossible) to fathom out the processes. We like routine (think of how angry you get when the local Supermarket changes the store layout... bread was in aisle 3 on Saturday, now it's in aisle 6!).

Zencart is easy to install, and if you go with a standard template, it can be up-and running (and trading) inside of 2 hours. our "record" for a fully configured and customised ZC installation - is just 4 hours. Orders were coming in within 18 hours and at the end of week one, the profits on revenues earned had paid for the site's development. (The client was one of the most aggressive marketers i have ever met and knew their stuff, which helps).

Another great thing about ZC is that it has one of the strongest support forums in this industry, it has a great "user manual" (printed book or e-book versions are available) and its general reliability allows you to focus on your business, rather than spending long hours pondering over computer code and other technical mishaps.

It helps if you have access to someone with back-end expertise - but that will be true regardless of whatever OpenSource platform you choose...

WhiskyFive

10th February 2010, 18:41

Great post from Fairestcape.

I think the Zen admin area could and should be tidied up and we're looking at replacing the checkout on several sites - possibly with something new, or an amended version of the Ajax commercial checkout contribution.

While people are v. familiar with Zen's eccentricities and it is a very sound and secure (if you put in every one of the security updates and have a secure server set-up) shopping platofrm...it has fallen behind best practice.

I know I'd use the abandoned shopping cart feature a lot less if US customers could find their state dropdown more easily or I'd installed the checkout as guest feature...to name just a couple of issues that came up today alone.

While you can install Zen and customise its look and feel as an amateur with a "smattering" of basic skills, to get its full worth, you need a professional to help out.

I do think the managed services - such as Shopify - are better than open source for people who don't want to get into the technology and want to get up and running quickly with an attractive site - which can be through an easily applied template, custom purchased template or your own one built with a smattering of CSS and HTML.

Rain-bow

11th February 2010, 00:32

Thanks,

I tried Zen cart but It doesnt seem to let you control things like page names and meta i could be wrong

Yes it does you just need to know how ;)

Zencart is hugely flexible if you have the right team customising it if you would like to PM me more info on your requirements I'll put you some recommendations together

Regards

Rain
xxxx

awebapart.com

11th February 2010, 08:50

Whats the Best E-Commerce Package?
There is no "best e-commerce package (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_ecommerce_solution)", it all depends upon your particular requirements. What are essential 'must have' features in an ecommerce system for one business, might be unnecessary and confusing bloat in an ecommerce system for another business.

Requirements (and budget) could also point towards either a fully bespoke ecommerce system being developed from scratch, a semi-bespoke ecommerce system (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=278560), or an off-the-shelf system.

or you can use VirtueMart (also based originally on osCommerce) - which is a Joomla plug-in
Virtuemart is a good recommendation, as one of the major open source ecommerce systems to consider (along with Magento, Zencart, osCommerce etc), but Virtuemart is not originally based on osCommerce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtueMart) (which in some ways is a good thing as it can bring different things to the table when evaluating different systems).

Zen Cart is based on osCommerce (which is now a dead project) - so you can forget about osCommerce immediately.
(OsC - which is now obsolete)
I always find it strange to hear ZenCart evangelists saying bad things about osCommerce, a system which ZenCart is based upon. It's a bit like Ubuntu or Centos users saying Ubuntu or Centos is great but Linux is crap. A ZenCart storeowner who puts down osCommerce is actually putting down a major proportion (60%?) of their own system ZenCart too!

I wouldn't say osCommerce is dead. If anything I'd describe osCommerce as a patient who has had major reconstructive surgery, major transplants etc, and who is currently in a long drawn out major rehabilitation period slipping in and out of coma due to this, with some surgery still outstanding, and with the rest of us not quite knowing what the outcome will be.

The osCommerce architect decided a few years ago to rebuild osCommerce from scratch to create a brand new v3 of osCommerce. A rebuild of this nature is not easy. This v3 is still in alpha, however the latest alpha (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=102835) is a supported (as in going forwards compatible) release.

On the other hand, something similar was promised with Zencart in 2006 (http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4), a major rewrite for v2 (originally v1.4), and this hasn't happened yet either since Zencart is sill on v1.3.x with v2 beta release delays (http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?p=733556). The Zencart guys probably came to the same realisation as the osCommerce guys, that both of their systems had some major legacy osCommerce architecture within them that needed to be redeveloped from scratch in order to move forward. The question is, who is closer to achieving this? (and sorry, but I do not know the answer to this question).

It is because of these unknowns with the major rewrite of osCommerce that I have advised for quite some time (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=369157) not to start new DIY osCommerce v2.x projects.

It is also because of these unknowns that other systems like Magento are worth considering, because Magento has already got its major rewrite (well write rather than rewrite, since it is a recent system) out of the way.

WhiskyFive

11th February 2010, 12:59

I always find it strange to hear ZenCart evangelists saying bad things about osCommerceDon't think we said anything bad about it...except it was dead. You described it as in a coma....I'm happy to go with your assessment instead!

Describing me as an "evangelical" is a bit off - it suggests I'm not objective in recommending one bit of software over another.

If you're looking for an osCommerce based site, I think Zen is superior to vanilla osC, CRE Loaded and OSC Max.

If you were to start with osC, you'd need to spend a week or so installing contributions that are already integrated and tested with Zen...not to mention missing out on Zen's excellent template system.

I stand corrected on Virtue Mart....it isn't a fork but is still quite similar to osC.

(Actually..I got misinformed here (and this is a useful resource for cart info): http://www.ecommerce-guide.com/essentials/shopping_carts/article.php/3855641)

It is also because of these unknowns that other systems like Magento are worth consideringDefinitely worth considering....if only to rule it out.

As someone who actually runs e-commerce stores....I can say that I was enormously enthusiastic about Magento until I tried to use it to process orders.

It is also incredibly cumbersome to set-up, configure, template and so on.

If you're looking for Open Source, then PrestaShop and VirtueMart are worth considering...along with Zen....and if you want to avoid the hassle of setting up and maintaining a site, then a managed solution such as Shopify is also v. worth checking out.

awebapart.com

11th February 2010, 15:15

Don't think we said anything bad about it...except it was dead. You described it as in a coma....I'm happy to go with your assessment instead!
I would describe "dead" as a "bad" thing rather than a "good" thing.

My assessment of osCommerce "slipping in and out of a coma during rehabilitation after major corrective surgery" still leaves hope, whereas "dead" does not. In some ways there is more hope with osCommerce than with ZenCart, because ZenCart hasn't had its major corrective surgery yet.

Describing me as an "evangelical" is a bit off - it suggests I'm not objective in recommending one bit of software over another.
My comment about "ZenCart envangelists" wasn't aimed at you in particular. I think there are plenty of occasions on this forum when different people who favour ZenCart will put down osCommerce, some people probably not even knowing the history of ZenCart being a derivative of osCommerce.

I do not think that it is objective to say things like "osCommerce is dead", without backing this up with reasons or evidence. The reasons one might come up with, like it has some seriously old legacy architecture underneath that needs redeveloping, or that its major rewrite is taking too long, could equally be applied to ZenCart, but in both of these cases osCommerce is ahead of ZenCart because the osCommerce v3 rewrite is out there, in a supported (forward compatible) alpha version at least.

If you're looking for an osCommerce based site, I think Zen is superior to vanilla osC, CRE Loaded and OSC Max.

If you were to start with osC, you'd need to spend a week or so installing contributions that are already integrated and tested with Zen...not to mention missing out on Zen's excellent template system.
I agree that ZenCart v1.3.x is better than osCommerce v2.2. In fact some of the things osCommerce is addressing in osCommerce v3 alpha are merely playing catchup with ZenCart v1.3.x (e.g. XHTML, template). The question is what will happen once osCommerce v3 moves out of alpha, and whether it is a good rewritten system on which to build upon. Will it be ZenCart who is then in the playing catch up position because it has not got passed its major hurdle of the much needed major rewrite yet?

WhiskyFive

11th February 2010, 23:22

My comment about "ZenCart envangelists" wasn't aimed at you in particular.

You did quote me twice immediately before the evangelist comment, and saying we had unfairly overlooked osCommerce.....I had complained that this sort of language suggests I'm not objective....and then you go on to say I'm not objective....grrrrr!

I read your post again hammering home that you think osCommerce is overlooked. You're obviously an osCommerce evangelical purist blind to the charms of the fork distributions - Zen Cart is heresy!

See what I did there....used emotive language to suggest you aren't objective....annoying isn't it!

I don't necessarily agree with your points - but I've answered them previously.

awebapart.com

12th February 2010, 09:22

Just to clarify:

1. My 'Zencart evangelists' description wasn't aimed at you in particular, but it did include you and fairestcape. Microsoft, and to some extent other large companies like Google, Apple, Sun, use the term 'evangelist' to describe their best knowledgeable industry specialists. In this sense of the word, evangelist doesn't mean not being objective. Evangelist means being keen, enthusiastic, knowledgeable, a recommender, a promoter, perhaps even a champion of a particular technology, but it doesn't mean not being objective.

2. My 'saying bad things about osCommerce, a system which ZenCart is based upon' statement wasn't aimed at you in particular, but it did include you and fairestcape. This is where not being objective can creep in, for the reasons I have given, especially since some osCommerce put downs will apply to Zencart too.

3. My 'I do not think that it is objective to say things like "osCommerce is dead", without backing this up with reasons or evidence' was aimed at you and fairestcape, who similarly stated that "osCommerce is obsolete".

I don't necessarily agree with your points
That's fair enough. This is a discussion forum after all, with different points of view.

but I've answered them previously.
You don't need to answer any of my points, although if you did I would be genuinely interested to read some of your views. A good proportion of what you and fairestcape have written on this thread I have found interesting, and I even agree with quite a bit of what you're saying.

However I do think it would be more useful to the OP and to others reading this thread if you and fairestcape did back up your 'osCommerce is dead' and "osCommerce is obsolete" statements with some reasons or evidence.

fairestcape

12th February 2010, 09:23

There is no "best e-commerce package (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_ecommerce_solution)", it all depends upon your particular requirements. What are essential 'must have' features in an ecommerce system for one business, might be unnecessary and confusing bloat in an ecommerce system for another business.

Requirements (and budget) could also point towards either a fully bespoke ecommerce system being developed from scratch, a semi-bespoke ecommerce system (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=278560), or an off-the-shelf system.

Virtuemart is a good recommendation, as one of the major open source ecommerce systems to consider (along with Magento, Zencart, osCommerce etc), but Virtuemart is not originally based on osCommerce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtueMart) (which in some ways is a good thing as it can bring different things to the table when evaluating different systems).

I always find it strange to hear ZenCart evangelists saying bad things about osCommerce, a system which ZenCart is based upon. It's a bit like Ubuntu or Centos users saying Ubuntu or Centos is great but Linux is crap. A ZenCart storeowner who puts down osCommerce is actually putting down a major proportion (60%?) of their own system ZenCart too!

I wouldn't say osCommerce is dead. If anything I'd describe osCommerce as a patient who has had major reconstructive surgery, major transplants etc, and who is currently in a long drawn out major rehabilitation period slipping in and out of coma due to this, with some surgery still outstanding, and with the rest of us not quite knowing what the outcome will be.

The osCommerce architect decided a few years ago to rebuild osCommerce from scratch to create a brand new v3 of osCommerce. A rebuild of this nature is not easy. This v3 is still in alpha, however the latest alpha (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=102835) is a supported (as in going forwards compatible) release.

On the other hand, something similar was promised with Zencart in 2006 (http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4), a major rewrite for v2 (originally v1.4), and this hasn't happened yet either since Zencart is sill on v1.3.x with v2 beta release delays (http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?p=733556). The Zencart guys probably came to the same realisation as the osCommerce guys, that both of their systems had some major legacy osCommerce architecture within them that needed to be redeveloped from scratch in order to move forward. The question is, who is closer to achieving this? (and sorry, but I do not know the answer to this question).

It is because of these unknowns with the major rewrite of osCommerce that I have advised for quite some time (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=369157) not to start new DIY osCommerce v2.x projects.

It is also because of these unknowns that other systems like Magento are worth considering, because Magento has already got its major rewrite (well write rather than rewrite, since it is a recent system) out of the way.

I work with many eCommerce programs, and yes, I favour ZC. You are correct to say that there is no "best" shopping cart and that a choice is best made after a careful and detailed analysis of what you need your store to do.

... but sadly... even with the efforts to upgrade it (and the horrid legal spat that was only recently resolved) Osc is obsolete...

The current version of zencart is heading that way too... and we are all hoping that V2 is released soon.

awebapart.com

12th February 2010, 09:44

... but sadly... even with the efforts to upgrade it (and the horrid legal spat that was only recently resolved) Osc is obsolete...

The current version of zencart is heading that way too... and we are all hoping that V2 is released soon.
Thank you. You have confirmed what I have been trying to get across, that if you say Osc is obsolete then you should agree that Zencart could be heading that way too (similar underlying architectures, similar much needed rewrites, similar rewrite issues and delays).

Personally I wouldn't go as far as to say that either are obsolete since there is still evidence that osC v3 alpha rewrite is out there and they are trying to complete the v3 release, and if osC can do it then Zencart could do it too. But who knows?

For anyone interested, here is some information on the osCommerce legal spat (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1102122) I think fairestcape was referring to.

edmondscommerce

12th February 2010, 09:54

LOL :D

is osCommerce in a coma or dead.. is it ethical to withdraw the feeding tube..?

Its not under heavy development, but its stable and still totally functional with a raft of worthwhile extensions and notably recently released Sage Pay modules written by Harald himself

http://blogs.oscommerce.com/2009/08/28/new-certified-sage-pay-payment-modules-for-oscommerce-online-merchant-v2-2/

I still recommend some clients go onto an osC (or derivatives) based store because sometimes it is the best fit.

Do I expect osCommerce 3 to arrive any time soon? No not really, its starting to look a bit pointless but I don't expect the current version to evaporate over night.

A bit like a well made but old car, it probably has a good 50 thousand miles left in it despite showing 80k on the clock

stasilo

12th February 2010, 11:55

quikshop

12th February 2010, 12:05

I do find it a fascinating debate when Ecommerce solutions are fought over with such passion, like it really makes a huge difference :rolleyes:

osCommerce / ZenCart / Managed Solution / Joomla / Actinic etc, these are nothing more than a tool to open up a sales channel for your business.

All of them do the job well but the importance of the complexity, name, popularity of a package becomes even less important when you are first starting out.

Go with any recognised solution that is within your budget. Don't spend weeks agonising over the choice, take the plunge and get on with your business.

4little1s

12th February 2010, 13:40

We have been using Actinic for a couple of years and its been good for us. There are gripes with it, but I think upgrading will address them. Its a sales channel and it works for us, I'm not a techy.

iphone137

16th February 2010, 09:04

Take a look at bigcommerce, it was launched last year and looks interesting.

Josh B

16th February 2010, 16:30

There are so many shopping carts out there, its really a matter of your own preference.

Just make sure you trail the software and test out the services; support, hosting etc.

Josh

Bikerdave

17th February 2010, 21:15

Hi,

I have been looking around for some good ecommerce software I have tried

zen cart
O S Commerce
Actinic
and Open cart

all of them are quite good but you have to learn about all the ins and outs which is fine but which one is the best to learn?

I looked at OSCommerce, Zen and Virtuemart and put OS Commerce to one side mainly as it was 'superseded' by Zen. As I have been building Joomla sites I obviously looked at Virtuemart and these three are the only three I would consider.

Zen is a standalone package, templates/themes/styles are readily available and not too difficult to install.
Virtuemart is part of Joomla so you will need to learn Joomla as well. VM takes the Joomla site template so appears more readily as part of the site.

There is a good degree of help available for both these packages and both will do a job for you.

You asked which is the best to learn and that is hard to say as it depends on what you mean by best. My suggestion would be to consider what you will use the site for. If it's just a shopping site then go for Zen. however if its more a social site where you want to use Blogs articles forum etc them Joomla and VM is the answer.