Using UKBF as a cheap source of advertising??? [Archive]

Steve Roberts

6th January 2006, 08:35

I frequently read posts on this site - I read far more than I contribute, to be honest. I find it most helpful to learn about other people's business experiences, challenges and problems coupled with various opinions as to how to overcome these challenges. In many cases there are several ways of skinning the same cat, so to speak, which makes the responses all the more interesting to read. There are surprisingly few UK forums like this one, having trawled the net on several occasions.

However, I do find it a little irritating that some posters are, in some cases overtly, and in other cases with more subtlety, shamelessly promoting their products / services to other members. If I click on a thread which starts with something like "opinions required on XXX?" and then find I'm being sold, say, printing, art, business consultancy, etc.. I feel a little irritated that my time has been wasted. There's a saying which I often quote to my sales staff: "people love to buy but hate being sold to".

Maybe I'm alone in the above sentiment, and maybe that's what the powers that be at UKBF are happy with. However, I'd be interested in hearing other people's views.

I'm aware that the above comment is a little negative and, as I say to my staff, "never come to me with a complaint unless you've got at least one constructive idea to solve the problem". My suggestion is that there is a forum dedicated to "promoting member to member trading".

I hope the above comments are received in the spirit in which they are intended.

Steve

ebonybailey

6th January 2006, 08:42

I agree, to much "can you give me your opinion on my website" - its just a ploy to get the numbers up.

Michael

Mortime Business Software

6th January 2006, 08:48

Hi Steve. I could do you a good deal on some custom software to minimise this problem for you. My rates are very competetive at the moment.

:)

Dave

confused

6th January 2006, 09:07

It isnt a problem for me, the way I see it is, if someone asks for an opinion, if I can I will, and if someone says "can I have an opinion on this prodct/service and would you buy it" then I cant see a problem whatsoever, and if it was something I knew about, I'd probably offer a comment or suggestion. I wouldnt agree that its necessarily a ploy to get numbers up.
If your line of business never requires others opinions and you can do it all yourself then thats fine, but most people welcome comments, good ro bad from other people, and adding a few lines trying to sell a product or service IMO doesnt do any harm at all. There have been a lot of posts recently from members asking opinions and different ideas to market their product, I think I know who your are refering to but I wont post any names, either way, I dont see a problem whatsoever, and if this person or persons gets some sales or gets an idea for a new product then isnt that a good thing? I thought thats what these forums were all about.

SillyJokes

6th January 2006, 09:08

as I say to my staff, "never come to me with a complaint unless you've got at least one constructive idea to solve the problem". My suggestion is that there is a forum dedicated to "promoting member to member trading".

How many times has Top Hat said to me,"Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions!" ? (about twice, before I slugged him)

There is already an UKBF Offers forum - in what way is your idea different to this?

I think people do promote themselves on this forum. A lot have read some book about networking and are doing chapter three "Interacting on internet forums" here.

But I fear that without this the forum would potentially be a poorer place because less people would stick around. It is the price you have to pay.

And to be honest I think that we are all pretty on the ball when it comes to sniffing out self promoters. Some of them have been fairly clever but they all get outted in the end.

Hence my new forum idea "www.IwasbornYesterday.com" where fools and their money look to be parted.

Juvanescence

6th January 2006, 09:08

Yes, there have been a few too many of these sales threads lately.

There is an offers forum here, all offers should be in there.

Maybe only one offer per month should be allowed?

:)

thekitchendesigner

6th January 2006, 09:36

i agree with confused.

i have asked for opinions on things but for no other reason than to gain feedback, after all i am going to be biased for my own stuff, so others opinions are very important to me. There are many members on the forum who can see things differently and having their opinions makes better buisness.

My business services are directed at those in a particular industry, and i know there is little chance of 'selling' anything on the forum becasue they are specialised. I'm certainly not here to sell. All the advice i have had from members has been fantastic and has helped me greatly. And for those who really do stand out as sellers and only that, just ignore them!

ebonybailey

6th January 2006, 09:39

I dont think anyone has a problem with genuine people asking for feedback, but there are some who just use it as an advertising space. Those who rarely use the forum unless its plugging something, who make no contribution to any other posts unless they have something to push on you.
That said most of the members here are worthy of that title "Members"

gapgb

6th January 2006, 09:42

I would say some of the signatures are getting a bit out of hand, if they get any bigger I will need a new monitor

bwglaw

6th January 2006, 10:01

Interesting points indeed. Yes, there is an 'Offers' forum and needs to be more appropriately titled.

I think we need a 'site critique' forum. I was a bit irritated to find yet another posting from MKPrinting about marketing in the 'business forum' and yet whilst the 'tips' are useful, it is only promoting his own business and is not unbiased in response to a genuine question or topic on the forum. It becoming on the borderline of spam. No disrespect to MKPrinting, but careful judgment is needed here.

As I have said in posts before, 'there is a time and place'. I have rarely created a thread that promotes my own business, but have made posts in response to others queries or made a thread where I need a question answered.

Steve Roberts

6th January 2006, 10:17

I've got absolutely no problem with someone asking for feedback on their site - that's a good and healthy thing to ask. In fact, I've watched members develop their web-sites using feedback and it's great to see sites develop from "rough & ready", "petty good" and then to "excellent" based on constructive feedback. Such constructive feedback is an excellent use of UKBF. Equally, if someone talks about the products / services that their business offers and asks for opinions - again, a good use of the UKBF site.

But, let's be honest, and I think we can all read between the lines here (and if you can't you probably don't deserve to be in business in the first place), there is blatant (free) self promotion. Clearly the "offers" forum is not being extensively used (I just had a quick look). As such, one option might be for the moderators to move these posts to the correct forum.

Rob Holmes

6th January 2006, 10:36

I'm reading with interest but will move to feedback and help in the meantime :)

Rob

elite123

6th January 2006, 10:37

Steve Roberts

6th January 2006, 10:42

Clearly the "offers" forum is not being extensively used (I just had a quick look). As such, one option might be for the moderators to move these posts to the correct forum.

Having had this thread moved, the irony is not lost on me! :wink:

ebonybailey

6th January 2006, 10:42

To me the issue is being sneaky about it though.

I think that is what makes people feel uncomfortable, I think if you are a healthy member of this community people will take an interest in what you do anyway, surely giving to get something back is a healthy way to network, there are some who ask for opinions on their websites simply because it gets people to have a look and see what they do, the have no intention of making any changes or taking peoples views seriously.
But alas I am gateful that its only a few.

Rob Holmes

6th January 2006, 10:47

Generally anything blatently plugging from a new member is treated accordingly - we tend to be a little more relaxed with members with more posts under their belt but..

IMHO - I would love most of the threads to start with a business person having a problem and then members contributing to solving it online, professionally, quickly and usually free as part of the forum.

If a thread follows the above process then thats great.

Often they disintegrate into cross thread chit chat and start heading totally off topic. We try to moderate without dictating, sometimes thats hard - we also don't want to destroy the great atmosphere that generally is around on the forums.

Occasionally we get hammered for not moderating enough, othertimes for moderating too much - but compared to other forums I think it is by far the best :)

Rob

Rob Holmes

6th January 2006, 10:49

So to simplify the above....

if most threads could start with a problem and end with a solution instead of starting with a solution because they generally end with a problem :)

Simple eh ? :)

Rob

Steve Roberts

6th January 2006, 11:07

I disagree !

There is nothing wrong with selling, plugging etc

If your not interested there is no problem.

i do use it more for advice but i could tell you what i do which could end up being an advantage to others !

did i mention www.elitecollections.net by the way (joke-ish)

I guess it comes down to what the management at UKBF want. The site is promoted as a business forum to discuss and debate business issues, etc. There are hundreds (well thousands) of web-sites out there which can be used to plug products. What differentiates this particular site is that it is business owners, and would-be bsiness owners (in the main), discussing successes, failures, issues, ideas and generally using it as a sounding board to assist in the running of theirs and other members' business. One poster on this thread said that if self promotion were stopped then the membership would fall. Firstly, I'm not sure that's the case; and secondly, I wonder if the site needs such members anyway.

SillyJokes

6th January 2006, 11:24

I take your point about not encouraging these people, Steve, but if this place is known to contain business owners then it's like a honey pot for anyone who needs to put their prodict in front of the decision maker.

The only way to disuade the casual self promoter is to make the forum a little harder to get into. Make it like a little like ecademy and ask people to pay.

But if you have been to Ecademy then you will know that even paying £120 a year does not put them off.

bwglaw

6th January 2006, 11:26

One needs to look at the English definition of 'forum' and I am sure selling, plugging and long those lines are not in the definition.

As Rob says it is hard to moderate but where a thread is started as a mere plug, like the thread by MKPrinting to self-promote this should not be accepted.

It is a fact that many people are put off with forums being used as a free source for spamming, hard selling etc. I do however think it is harmless to 'offer to help' by asking the person to contact you. If we do allow selling explicitly then the number of members will dwindle if they see too many posts deemed as sales/selling etc.

Those who have to 'sell' on a forum are not doing well in business!

Rob Holmes

6th January 2006, 12:16

But if you have been to Ecademy then you will know that even paying £120 a year does not put them off.

Actually some on ecademy BECAUSE they pay act like they have a right to spam other members.

Rob

Coding Monkey

6th January 2006, 12:31

I truly don't notice those plugging themselves. I do notice so many people asking for free things so that THEN people feel they should offer things.

JustOneUK

6th January 2006, 22:17

it would be nice to have a summary post available as a sticky.
Just a long list of members (with over 30 posts?)
and what they do, unless it exists already?

eg:

JustOneUK...UK Advertising/Free Classifieds
Silly Jokes...Jokes & Supplies
Matrixxxxxxxx...Web Hosting.
Claire Mackaness...Art for Sale
Fast Fences... Commercial Fencing
Blah blah blah...copy editor.... etc etc

Jayne

6th January 2006, 22:31

bwglaw

7th January 2006, 04:26

Jayne - chatline or Agony Aunt ;)

fastfences

7th January 2006, 08:07

Jayne

7th January 2006, 09:24

Jayne - chatline or Agony Aunt ;)

Cheeky...I don't charge for that :lol:

I'd have to be an artistic business seller, unless I got two lines :lol:

Jayne

clairemackaness

7th January 2006, 10:20

Ok, my two penneth worth:

I agree that occassionally posts are blatant advertising, however you'll find these come from those who are what I would call true members (you know who you are) who are on here every day and help out in all aspects of the forum. I think we can let these slide as they are normally just proud of their new idea and want to share it with the group.

What annoys me is the people who come on, post a long salesey hello and a few other posts and then never come back. To solve this we could monitor the first say 20 posts and not allow selling. If they do try to sell then the posts get deleted.

On occasion I have posted up feedback required posts, but I hope nobody has ever seen these as a sales opportunity for me.

When I first came here I asked for feedback on my website and although I did get two sales from it I also completley re-desigend using all the feedback I got from everyone and now love my site.

I also recently posted my frog painting with a poll asking what people would like to buy. This may have been seen as a sales thread, but it wasn't. I simply wanted to know what products people thought would sell, so that I could get a product range running (watch this space, by the way).

I would still like to see a services directory on here, but I think Ozzy is working on this as we type.

I like the mix of salesy/help wanted threads here. Theres always something interesting to read hence why I come back day after day!

Anyway, rant over.

Claire

Hayles

7th January 2006, 10:55

I agree with just about everything Claire said!

I think the balance is ok at the moment, and like most others, I just ignore newies who come in with a blatant sales blurb and then go again.

There are some regulars who post a number of 'salesy' items, but there is usually a generally helpful part to the post too. For example, MK Printing has been a prolific poster recently. But I think that as his posts have been interesting (with some good ideas I've already started using) as well as a way of selling his products, they're fine. And, he's always willing to offer advice (without selling) whenever he can.

Surely one of the mods would PM someone if they thought it was too much? And we as members don't have to read the threads if we don't want to.

We are a business forum and all want to succeed in our businesses. Therefore it can be difficult to offer advice on a subject without saying how good we are! And if someone has a good idea, surely it's good for all of us if it's shared on here?

Hayles

Pebble Communications

10th January 2006, 10:35

I think that a certain amount of self promotion is acceptable as long as you are also giving something to the forum by joining in discussions and making comments. You can also give advice that doesn't involve your type of business so is not promotional.

I use a few business forums for two reasons;

1) It is a chance for me to get people to look at my site and services and I hope to acquire some new business that way. In 2005 though, I probably spent around 30 minutes a day on forums and achieved one direct 'sale' (worth £200) So not a good roi really if that were my only concern - but of course I'm pleased to have got it.
2) I find a lot of the topics useful, I've picked up some good advice and ideas and it also makes me feel less isolated as I usually work alone.
3) I like to help people out with advice and drone on about my experiences. Where in real life do you get to do this so much? I think I'm a frustrated agony aunt.