Why YOUR 'Opinion' Of My Website And YOUR Website - Is Absolutely Irrelevant

[Colin Parker]

Asking somebody for their 'opinion' on your website is almost totally irrelevant.

Even if you are split testing two different sites -asking for an 'opinion' is still totally irrelevant.

I rarely pass an opinion on which of two split tests I think will 'win'.

Why? Because my 'one' opinion is irrelevant.

If I pick the winner it is irrelevant - and if I pick the loser it is irrelevant.

My opinion in isolation counts for nothing - because you do not judge a split test on one result.

The other major - and nearly always overlooked factor in these type of 'which do you think is better' discussions is this ...

Someone who is in interested now in your product or service - who is actively searching for it - who clicks on your SEO/PPC/Content ad - and arrives on your site - will look at your site in a totally different way to someone who is simply passing an opinion.

The interested person has specific needs and wants - they have already decided what questions they want your site to answer - and they want those answers FAST.

The interested person will therefore make a quick scan of your site - and if it does not almost immediately start answering their questions - they will hit the back button knowing that another site is just a click away.

By comparison the person that you ask to give an 'opinion' on your site has not arrived through a search process - they have not entered keywords relevant to their wants and needs - they have not selected an ad to click on - they do not have questions swirling round in their head that they want your site to answer.

In other words - they are not in buying mode.

So ... they look at your site like they would look at a picture.

They are not looking for answers to their buying questions - they are judging whether they like the 'look and feel' of your site. And in those opinions - largely - are absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of split testing.

Judging the 'look and feel' is one of the reasons why many non buyers - for example - like sites with coloured text on coloured backgrounds - proven to massively lower readability and conversion.

Guess why they like the 'look' of these sites - because they don't read the text! They are not interested in reading it. All they are telling you is that they like the colour combinations! A fat lot of good that is.

This is one of the BIG reasons why 'ugly' sites sell better than 'pretty' ones.

'Pretty' sites have lots of lovely coloured text on coloured backgrounds - you could frame many and they would look delightful hanging as a picture above Aunt Maud's sitting room fireplace. Bringing 'oohs and aahs' from all who see it.

But - that's all many are good for. Because they won't sell your product or service.

Whilst the 'ugly' site ... the site with 'boring' black text on a white background - with a maximum of three colours (other than in photographs) - with sparing use of coloured text and reverse out text - the site that answers questions and can be read ...

Sells product like hot cakes ... long after Aunt Maud's ooh and aah guests have left.

'Opinions' on websites? Largely not worth the paper they are written on.

The only 'paper' worth looking at is actual conversion and analytic statistics that are the result of what real buying customers are saying about your website.

Take notice of them ... and ignore Aunt Maud's guests.

Colin Parker

[fisicx]

Agree with 99% of your post but it is also possible to review as site as a potential customer. I rarely bother about the 'design' of a site. I couldn't care lessa about the colours and imagery. For me it is all about the presentation of the information, it's readability, usability, accessibility, calls to action, information flows, WIIFM and so on.

Good post though.

[saxondale]

Asking somebody for their 'opinion' on your website is almost totally irrelevant.

Even if you are split testing two different sites -asking for an 'opinion' is still totally irrelevant.

I rarely pass an opinion on which of two split tests I think will 'win'.

Why? Because my 'one' opinion is irrelevant.

If I pick the winner it is irrelevant - and if I pick the loser it is irrelevant.

My opinion in isolation counts for nothing - because you do not judge a split test on one result.

The other major - and nearly always overlooked factor in these type of 'which do you think is better' discussions is this ...

Someone who is in interested now in your product or service - who is actively searching for it - who clicks on your SEO/PPC/Content ad - and arrives on your site - will look at your site in a totally different way to someone who is simply passing an opinion.

The interested person has specific needs and wants - they have already decided what questions they want your site to answer - and they want those answers FAST.

The interested person will therefore make a quick scan of your site - and if it does not almost immediately start answering their questions - they will hit the back button knowing that another site is just a click away.

By comparison the person that you ask to give an 'opinion' on your site has not arrived through a search process - they have not entered keywords relevant to their wants and needs - they have not selected an ad to click on - they do not have questions swirling round in their head that they want your site to answer.

In other words - they are not in buying mode.

So ... they look at your site like they would look at a picture.

They are not looking for answers to their buying questions - they are judging whether they like the 'look and feel' of your site. And in those opinions - largely - are absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of split testing.

Judging the 'look and feel' is one of the reasons why many non buyers - for example - like sites with coloured text on coloured backgrounds - proven to massively lower readability and conversion.

Guess why they like the 'look' of these sites - because they don't read the text! They are not interested in reading it. All they are telling you is that they like the colour combinations! A fat lot of good that is.

This is one of the BIG reasons why 'ugly' sites sell better than 'pretty' ones.

'Pretty' sites have lots of lovely coloured text on coloured backgrounds - you could frame many and they would look delightful hanging as a picture above Aunt Maud's sitting room fireplace. Bringing 'oohs and aahs' from all who see it.

But - that's all many are good for. Because they won't sell your product or service.

Whilst the 'ugly' site ... the site with 'boring' black text on a white background - with a maximum of three colours (other than in photographs) - with sparing use of coloured text and reverse out text - the site that answers questions and can be read ...

Sells product like hot cakes ... long after Aunt Maud's ooh and aah guests have left.

'Opinions' on websites? Largely not worth the paper they are written on.

The only 'paper' worth looking at is actual conversion and analytic statistics that are the result of what real buying customers are saying about your website.

Take notice of them ... and ignore Aunt Maud's guests.

Colin Parker

patronising ................. moi?

[Matt1959]

patronising ................. moi?

disagree - its a good post making a point of something thats often missed...

[saxondale]

disagree - its a good post making a point of something thats often missed...



I`m quite capable of pretending I`m buying ..............

[Colin Parker]

I`m quite capable of pretending I`m buying ..............

How can you 'pretend' you a buying?

Could you 'pretend' you were buying something you did not want or like?

You can't possibly have the same emotions when you don't REALLY WANT something as when you do. Even if you like it.

To pretend otherwise - is exactly that.

Colin Parker

Of course you can't.

[Clodbuster]

Oh I'm not so sure about that, when I started out I sought as many opinions as possible from people who I assumed had years more experience of on-line retailing than I had (Seeing as I had none, that was not hard). I found it valuable but I was pulled from pillar to post by conflicting opinions - because that is what they were - opinions.
Out of the various opinions did come generalisations, keep it simple stupid, clear navigation and above all quality content.

So - an opinion does have value, it is what you do with it that counts.

[G. Lasagne]

How can you 'pretend' you a buying?

Could you 'pretend' you were buying something you did not want or like?

You can't possibly have the same emotions when you don't REALLY WANT something as when you do. Even if you like it.

To pretend otherwise - is exactly that.

Colin Parker

Of course you can't.

Ignore him Colin, hes like this with everyone, hes about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

You make some good points colin, if its not too much hassle would you be so kind to cast your expert eye over my site www.gasangelheating.co.uk, its been given me a complete headache lately:)

[sirearl]

Good Post Colin been telling the mottley crew this for yonks.

The worst opinion on a website is very often given by IT pro's.

Its all about the product and the information being relevant to the enquiry.

Our car lease site is consitently voted the ugliest on the web by design pro's.at the same time being the most successful in the UK.:|:)

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/worst-business-web-sites-of-2009.html#axzz0djtQoMiW

Earl

[G. Lasagne]

I love that site earl, its great, i am surprised its so successful though, as i would have thought its not serious enough:)

[Dawg]

But what if an opinion given here says things like:

"Don't have lots of pretty colours, it has been proven by testing that this reduces conversion",
and,
"You should have black type on white or cream, with a font size of at least 12 to 14 to help maximise the readability and thus conversion"?

Surely there is room for advice which will contain treasure amongst all the dross? Are you arguing that there is no use for expert advice, for experience? (Which is what you are offering after all).

[sirearl]

But what if an opinion given here says things like:

"Don't have lots of pretty colours, it has been proven by testing that this reduces conversion",
and,
"You should have black type on white or cream, with a font size of at least 12 to 14 to help maximise the readability and thus conversion"?

Surely there is room for advice which will contain treasure amongst all the dross? Are you arguing that there is no use for expert advice, for experience? (Which is what you are offering after all).

Of course there are basic pointers re navigation e.t.c

But the general public are the judge of a site.I would say you need thousands of unbiased opinions from them,not easy to obtain.

Problem being you are likely to hear from those who like the site rather than those that don't.:|

Earl

[Webtistic]

The only 'paper' worth looking at is actual conversion and analytic statistics that are the result of what real buying customers are saying about your website.


Obviously, after the smoke has cleared, everything comes down to conversion ratios. It can be difficult to predict what on-page factors work, as experienced as we all are, and I touched upon a similar issue with 'guessing' which PPC ad copy will work in my blog, here: http://www.webtistic.co.uk/2009/11/people-strange-test-ppc-ads/

This is one of the BIG reasons why 'ugly' sites sell better than 'pretty' ones.

I do, however, disagree with this statement. Websites like Amazon are leaders in the field when it comes down to conversion optimisation and they have achieved this through the obsessive, constant, split-testing of new design aspects, features, layouts, etc.

I think it is way too simplistic to say that 'pretty' sites don't convert as well as 'ugly ones'. It comes down to the individual site.

We run an affiliate network and have had over 600 merchants on our books since launch. It follows that I have access to all of those merchants conversions stats, from every different traffic source, and I can assure you that good design principles are imperative. They help build credibility and trust and help to portray professionalism. There are clear patterns with those that convert against those that don't. This isn't saying that some 'ugly' sites aren't effective, but they have to get EVERYTHING else dead right.

I don't think anybody would say that the Amazon website, and many other leading websites in the e-commerce space, are 'ugly'?

[fisicx]

I don't think anybody would say that the Amazon website, and many other leading websites in the e-commerce space, are 'ugly'?
OK so maybe not ugly but there is the minimum of frippery, no fancy imagery, javascript effects and other distractions. Amazon has essentally two structural images. The logo (which is tiny and tucked away) and 'buy this thing'. Tesco and Play are very similar. All the other imagery promotes products and offers. The actual layout is very simple when compared to next whose site is all glitzy and misses many of the marketing checkpoints.

[SteveGibson]

I`m quite capable of pretending I`m buying ..............

Yes, you can pretend you're buying... but unless you're going to buy all the stuff you're selling, your opinion is just a reflection of your own preferences, not the preferences of the masses.

As Claude Hopkins wrote in 1923:

There are many surprises in advertising. A project you will laugh at may make a great success. A project you are sure of may fall down. All because tastes differ so. None of us know enough peoples desires to get an average viewpoint.

In the old days, advertisers ventured on their own opinions. The few guess right, the many wrong. Those were the times of advertising disaster.

Steve

[SteveGibson]

But what if an opinion given here says things like:

"Don't have lots of pretty colours, it has been proven by testing that this reduces conversion",
and,
"You should have black type on white or cream, with a font size of at least 12 to 14 to help maximise the readability and thus conversion"?

Surely there is room for advice which will contain treasure amongst all the dross? Are you arguing that there is no use for expert advice, for experience? (Which is what you are offering after all).

I think there are things that constitute "best practice", particularly in the areas of usability and copy.

There has to be. Otherwise, as you say, what would be the value of a conversion "expert"?

(or copywriter)

Steve

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Asking opinions (i.e. research) from your target audience is useful for the big stuff. It can alert you to any major elements which could be crushing sales. For the many minor, subtle changes, split-testing will win every time.

[sirearl]

Asking opinions (i.e. research) from your target audience is useful for the big stuff. It can alert you to any major elements which could be crushing sales. For the many minor, subtle changes, split-testing will win every time.

Afraid simply asking is not good enough as the bias is in the act.;)

You really have to wait for unsolicited comments.

Earl

[awebapart.com]

Asking somebody for their 'opinion' on your website is almost totally irrelevant...

'Opinions' on websites? Largely not worth the paper they are written on.
I disagree.

It depends on what aspect of your site you are asking an opinion on, the experience and knowledge level of the person you are asking, and what they focus on in their reply.

If you ask a business/accounting specialist about your site's financial viability, whether you can turn a profit, then that opinion is relevant and very important.

If you ask a business/market specialist, or even someone in the same market area as you, about your site's market, its competitors, its realistic chances of success, its financial viability, then that opinion is relevant and very important.

If you ask a good legal specialist whether what you are doing on your site is legal, then that opinion is relevant and very important.

If you ask a good usability expert about your site's usability, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask your target users about general feedback on the site, then some of that feedback (feedback more so than opinion) is relevant too.

If you ask a good security specialist about your site's security, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask a good web developer whether your site will work in different browsers on different machines for different users, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask a good web developer whether your site will scale with more users, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask a good developer how you can increase automation and the reduce manual costs involved in the back-end aspects of your website, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask a good accessibility specialist whether your site is accessible, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask a good SEO specialist about your site's SEO, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask about your site's conversion rates to someone who has experience and knowledge in this area, someone who knows what does and doesn't work from previous experience and knowledge of similar circumstances and what others have tried and tested before, then that opinion is relevant.

If you ask just for opinions in general, then relevant and important opinions will still come from some people who take into account the purpose of your website, prioritise the importance of these and other factors for your particular purpose, and give you feedback (and for some areas how you can get more detailed feedback elsewhere) on those important factors as to whether your website is fit for purpose.
The only 'paper' worth looking at is actual conversion and analytic statistics that are the result of what real buying customers are saying about your website.
Again, I disagree. Conversion is just one aspect of a website. It is not the only aspect, and from a bottom line money point of view, it is not even the top aspect. If anything I would say financial viability (profit) and legal viability would be top.

There's no point in increasing sales if you are not making any profit, as was the case with Watford Electronics (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=41385#post295090), who went bust in 2007 with debts of £3.5m, whose last year of trading saw a turnover of £50m but a profit of only £51800. What's that famous saying... "turnover is vanity, profit is sanity".

This point was nicely illustrated in simple, amusing, and over-emphatic terms a few years ago by Gordon Ramsay in one of his Kitchen Nightmares programmes. He visited a failing restaurant, calculated the cost of a particular meal, and said to the owner something like: "Do you realise that every time you sell a steak meal, you lose at least £5. With your current situation, when someone asks for a steak meal, you'd be better off just handing them a £5 note and telling them to f*** off out the door". Increasing sales isn't everything.

There's also little point focusing on increasing sales if what you are doing is illegal, and ends up costing you more money than you made, as in the case of CD Wow, who despite a yearly turnover (turnover not profit) of around £21m (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/22/bpi_seeks_damages_from_cd-wow/) ended up getting fined £35m (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/31/cd-wow_to_appeal_parallel_importing_damages/) and went into administration (and taken over by another company) in 2007.

There's no point increasing conversions/sales, if you are attracting the wrong type of customers, who end up costing the company more and make a loss, in terms of support, complaints, returns, chargebacks, etc.

If the conversions are just leads rather than sales, then again there is no point increasing conversions/leads if the quality of those leads is not good and doesn't result in sales and more importantly profits in the long run.

[sirearl]

This point was nicely illustrated in simple, amusing, and over-emphatic terms a few years ago by Gordon Ramsay in one of his Kitchen Nightmares programmes. He visited a failing restaurant, calculated the cost of a particular meal, and said to the owner something like: "Do you realise that every time you sell a steak meal, you lose at least £5. With your current situation, when someone asks for a steak meal, you'd be better off just handing them a £5 note and telling them to f*** off out the door". Increasing sales isn't everything.




Maybe he should have taken his own advice.?:)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1197021/Gordon-Ramsays-profits-fell-massive-87-year-expanded-restaurant-empire.html

Earl

[Kev Jaques]

Excellent essay Paul ;) going through the logic bitwise there with just about most points covered.

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Afraid simply asking is not good enough as the bias is in the act.;)

You really have to wait for unsolicited comments.

Earl

Not really. Bias is irrelevant if there's a critical element of your site which is damaging sales (unless the person doesn't want to offend you). If you're inexperienced in websites and internet marketing, it's quite easy to skim over something like that which a prospective customer might pick up - asked or not.

Plus it does work in general. You just have to decipher the useful information which takes a degree of knowledge. I've asked the opinions of prospective customers, and some of their feedback has correlated quite nicely with information from my tests.

You just need to use research wisely, that's all.

[sirearl]

I disagree.

It depends on what aspect of your site you are asking an opinion on, the experience and knowledge level of the person you are asking, and what they focus on in their reply.

If you ask a business/accounting specialist about your site's financial viability, whether you can turn a profit, then that opinion is relevant and very important.If you don't know that maybe you should not be in business.

If you ask a business/market specialist, or even someone in the same market area as you, about your site's market, its competitors, its realistic chances of success, its financial viability, then that opinion is relevant and very important.As above

If you ask a good legal specialist whether what you are doing on your site is legal, then that opinion is relevant and very important.As above

If you ask a good usability expert about your site's usability, then that opinion is relevant.Maybe

If you ask your target users about general feedback on the site, then some of that feedback (feedback more so than opinion) is relevant too.To biased

If you ask a good security specialist about your site's security, then that opinion is relevant.true

If you ask a good web developer whether your site will work in different browsers on different machines for different users, then that opinion is relevant.one hopes the site was built by a professional

If you ask a good web developer whether your site will scale with more users, then that opinion is relevant.as above

If you ask a good developer how you can increase automation and the reduce manual costs involved in the back-end aspects of your website, then that opinion is relevant.as above

If you ask a good accessibility specialist whether your site is accessible, then that opinion is relevant.as above

If you ask a good SEO specialist about your site's SEO, then that opinion is relevant.now your talking:)

If you ask about your site's conversion rates to someone who has experience and knowledge in this area, someone who knows what does and doesn't work from previous experience and knowledge of similar circumstances and what others have tried and tested before, then that opinion is relevant.maybe depents on product

If you ask just for opinions in general, then relevant and important opinions will still come from some people who take into account the purpose of your website, prioritise the importance of these and other factors for your particular purpose, and give you feedback (and for some areas how you can get more detailed feedback elsewhere) on those important factors as to whether your website is fit for purpose.the general public are the experts here

Again, I disagree. Conversion is just one aspect of a website. It is not the only aspect, and from a bottom line money point of view, it is not even the top aspect. If anything I would say financial viability (profit) and legal viability would be top.absolutely



A few comments in red.

Earl

[I, Brian]

It depends on what aspect of your site you are asking an opinion on, the experience and knowledge level of the person you are asking, and what they focus on in their reply.

This is quite true - there are various pointers that can kill a landing page if not addressed - simple one: poor visibility on Call To Action.

These are probably issues Colin considers are already addressed and set up for testing in the first place - in which case, experience and the opinion formed from that are already dictating value judgements about the page/website.

Steve Gibson has posted a few things in the past about common mistakes and features to consider addressing in order to increase conversions.

After all, analytics and conversion metrics are simply a tool - and such tools are only as good as the person using them. An experienced marketer can add value judgements that make use of such tools all the more valuable.

This post might be best filed under "things specialists take for granted about their own knowledge and experience". :)

[Colin Parker]

A few postershave said that some opinions DO count ie., those of IM 'experts' in their particular field.

Whilst I accept that up to a point (I am sparking a debate not writing an A to Z thesis) condider this ...

If Earl put Lings car leasing site up - and nobody had heard of Ling before ie., it was a new site - how many IM 'experts' on usability, conversion, security, copywriting etc., etc., etc., etc., how many do you think would have siad it was anything other than a DISASTER?

I bet not many ...

And yet it converts like crazy - does it not Earl?

Here is the site - www.lingscars.com (http://www.lingscars.com)

Now who would have said that would work? Not me for one.

And that is the point of my thread really.

Colin Parker

[saxondale]

And yet it converts like crazy - does it not Earl?

Here is the site - www.lingscars.com (http://www.lingscars.com)





but does it?





genuine question

[sirearl]

but does it?





genuine question

This may help bit long.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/supermondays/videos/41/

Earl

[saxondale]

This may help bit long.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/supermondays/videos/41/

Earl


was that filmed by TGFV?



I was hoping for something a bit more "accountant"

[sirearl]

was that filmed by TGFV?




Sorry only able to read English.:|

I suspect that you may be looking for the 3.5 million pounds worth of cars the site sells per month.?;)

Earl

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

Ling must live in a Gold house these days, with her soviet-era missile launcher in her front drive.

[sirearl]

Ling must live in a Gold house these days, with her soviet-era missile launcher in her front drive.

Afraid not nothing ostentatious about out Ling.I mean she is a northern lass.

Be it North China.:)

Earl

[saxondale]

Sorry only able to read English.:|

I suspect that you may be looking for the 3.5 million pounds worth of cars the site sells per month.?;)

Earl


that would be a start yes, can you back that figure up?










sells? I was looking to lease, maybe thats why I didnt stay long.

[sirearl]

that would be a start yes, can you back that figure up?



yes I said so.;)

be much easier if you just google ling for more information.

when a car is leased it is in fact sold by the dealer or supplier and the finance company becomes the owner.

Earl

[saxondale]

yes I said so.;)


Earl

stop me if you`ve heard this one before ....... I was hoping for something more "accounty".

Your obviously not able to.










.

[sirearl]

stop me if you`ve heard this one before ....... I was hoping for something more "accounty".

Your obviously not able to.










.

You is stopped lazy git.:D

Earl

[awebapart.com]

And yet it converts like crazy - does it not Earl? ... lingscars.com
but does it? ... genuine question
3.5 million pounds worth of cars the site sells per month.?;)
I was hoping for something more "accounty"
Thank you Saxondale for not taking things at face value, and delving deeper, it is refreshing to see this.

It is interesting to see that confusion and misinformation are still rife with lingcars company finances. What is turnover? What is profit? What is the list price purchase value of the cars leased? These 3 very different pieces of information have been swapped around and confused at least since her first appearance on Dragons Dens 3 years ago (some of it is on youtube), and they continue to be swapped around, sometimes for effect, sometimes simply perpetuating misleading information via chinese whispers, even by the press (there have been some recent press articles that have wrongly reported turnover in the millions).

A good 'accounty' description of her business was given by Ling herself on a Feb 2009 forum post (http://www.designerstalk.com/forums/general-discussion/24544-lings-cars-2.html#post454253), where she states:

2008 yearly turnover £355K

So whilst she might be brokering leases for cars with a street list price purchase value of £3.5M per month, her accounting turnover (sales, i.e. commission she gets from these leases) was something like £30K per month. And with "offices, 3 coders, 9 full time staff", and other costs, you can then get an idea of what the profit might be, profit can still be made so that is good, and impressive in a struggling UK motor industry.

Based on Ling's figures in her Feb 2009 post, with 300 lease applications per month and 75,000 unique website visitors per month, that's a conversion rate of 0.4%, so for every 250 web visitors, 1 person applies for a lease. This might sound low, not a crazy conversion rate, but IMO it isn't that bad considering this is a very big financial commitment for someone to make.

That conversion rate would increase if those 75,000 unique visitors per month is reduced down to filter out all the people visiting her site due to her general publicity and discussion in the business, media and web world. A lot of people from web marketeers, pr people to web designers like to talk about her site, some complimentary some not so complimentary. I'm not going to get into one of those discussions about the site, because for that particular site those kind of discussion can go on for ages.

[sirearl]

Thank you Saxondale for not taking things at face value, and delving deeper, it is refreshing to see this.

It is interesting to see that confusion and misinformation are still rife with lingcars company finances. What is turnover? What is profit? What is the list price purchase value of the cars leased? These 3 very different pieces of information have been swapped around and confused at least since her first appearance on Dragons Dens 3 years ago (some of it is on youtube), and they continue to be swapped around, sometimes for effect, sometimes simply perpetuating misleading information via chinese whispers, even by the press (there have been some recent press articles that have wrongly reported turnover in the millions).

A good 'accounty' description of her business was given by Ling herself on a Feb 2009 forum post (http://www.designerstalk.com/forums/general-discussion/24544-lings-cars-2.html#post454253), where she states:

2008 yearly turnover £355K

So whilst she might be brokering leases for cars with a street list price purchase value of £3.5M per month, her accounting turnover (sales, i.e. commission she gets from these leases) was something like £30K per month. And with "offices, 3 coders, 9 full time staff", and other costs, you can then get an idea of what the profit might be, profit can still be made so that is good, and impressive in a struggling UK motor industry.

Based on Ling's figures in her Feb 2009 post, with 300 lease applications per month and 75,000 unique website visitors per month, that's a conversion rate of 0.4%, so for every 250 web visitors, 1 person applies for a lease. This might sound low, not a crazy conversion rate, but IMO it isn't that bad considering this is a very big financial commitment for someone to make.

That conversion rate would increase if those 75,000 unique visitors per month is reduced down to filter out all the people visiting her site due to her general publicity and discussion in the business, media and web world. A lot of people from web marketeers, pr people to web designers like to talk about her site, some complimentary some not so complimentary. I'm not going to get into one of those discussions about the site, because for that particular site those kind of discussion can go on for ages.

I did say sold not profit,cause if it was I would be on my private jet.:)

Traffic now is around the 120k a month mark and climbing.

As you say Paul for that kind of capital outlay I think the conversion rate is excellent.

Earl

[youriv]

After reading this post I changed my font from 10pt Verdana #666 to 12pt Helvetica, Helvetica Neue, Arial #333 and the conversion rate is higher!

Personally I dont think it 'looks' nicer BUT I find myself reading the text a lot more. It makes you less 'stare' at the site and actually makes you read. And that is what I want.

Great stuff!

[SteveGibson]

After reading this post I changed my font from 10pt Verdana #666 to 12pt Helvetica, Helvetica Neue, Arial #333 and the conversion rate is higher!

Good on you!

I see lots of sites with #666 on a white background. As someone over 40 (and most of the money is controlled by people over 40), I find it noticeably harder to read.

I'd be far more likely to read the copy on a site if it were either #333 or black.

Steve

[saxondale]

I did say sold not profit,cause if it was I would be on my private jet.:)

Traffic now is around the 120k a month mark and climbing.

As you say Paul for that kind of capital outlay I think the conversion rate is excellent.

Earl

if I converted just one in 250 I would be out of business next week, I think most people on here would, anyone would.

what a load of hype over substance, far too many co`s think they are making money



but hey what do I know - one man, one office

[Mystro]

That conversion rate would increase if those 75,000 unique visitors per month is reduced down to filter out all the people visiting her site due to her general publicity and discussion in the business, media and web world. A lot of people from web marketeers, pr people to web designers like to talk about her site, some complimentary some not so complimentary. I'm not going to get into one of those discussions about the site, because for that particular site those kind of discussion can go on for ages.

But i dont think she would get those visitors if her site was anything but.

Even if you went there with no intent but to riddicule the site then see a car at a very competative price, it may just sway to buy it or tell a friend.

So chicken and egg for me with her site, if it were clean and normal would she get that volume? I doubt it, being wackey and mad helps her,

Even with my site my conversion is a little higher, but no where near , not even close to those volumes which is a great acheivment getting that amount of traffic.

It s numbers game with so many people visiting, people will buy, she has some deals cheaper than others some are not, its the site that makes her fortunes,

[SteveGibson]

But i dont think she would get those visitors if her site was anything but.

Good point.

Could she improve the usability, but keep the madness, and, overall, increase sales?

Will we ever know?

This is the point of testing.

Even if an ad/site is generating a lot of money, you don't know if that conversion is "high" unless you have other things to compare it with.

And, because every business is different, the only thing you can really compare yourself against is a different version of your own business.*

Steve

* Of course, you can compare yourself with averages for the industry, but those are pretty broad and don't tell you what's possible for you.

[sirearl]

But i dont think she would get those visitors if her site was anything but.

Even if you went there with no intent but to riddicule the site then see a car at a very competative price, it may just sway to buy it or tell a friend.

So chicken and egg for me with her site, if it were clean and normal would she get that volume? I doubt it, being wackey and mad helps her,

Even with my site my conversion is a little higher, but no where near , not even close to those volumes which is a great acheivment getting that amount of traffic.

It s numbers game with so many people visiting, people will buy, she has some deals cheaper than others some are not, its the site that makes her fortunes,

Exactly Ling has the ability to go on various social media sites and forums and bring thousands of visitors in a day ,visitors vary in how targeted they are and that traffic has a much lower conversion rate.

SEO brings in highly targeted traffic ,but all traffic is good ,as is publicity good or bad.

As you say with leasing conversion is mostly down to being price competative as it is in nearly all aras of internet sales.

Traffic now is around the 120k mark per month and I expect it to be around 200k by christmas if not more.

The more traffic in general the lower ones conversion rate owing to more flotsam and jetsam.

Earl

[saxondale]

Exactly Ling has the ability to go on various social media sites and forums and bring thousands of visitors in a day

any chance you`ll be able to substantiate this one instead then?



The more traffic in general the lower ones conversion rate owing to more flotsam and jetsam.

Earl

at last the mote falls from his eyes.








.

[sirearl]

any chance you`ll be able to substantiate this one instead then?


.

I suspect you may be better off discussing your problems with you're psychiatrist.;)

Earl

[Mystro]

any chance you`ll be able to substantiate this one instead then?




at last the mote falls from his eyes.








.

Why do people always insist on evidence of what one is telling them, regardless if the truth has been somewhat exagerated or not,

It will take you 5 mins to find out that info (well maybe a bit longer with ling as the facts will be mixed with the dribble and theres a lot of stuff to go through)

See even a thread with no mention of that mad chinese woman at the start ends up with her as the topic

Stop Earl , stop now

[saxondale]

I suspect you may be better off discussing your problems with you're psychiatrist.;)

Earl



would that be the "problem" of not taking anything at face value ......

already you`ve gone from 3.5 million to 335K, one assumes your not paying out the difference in real money then.

player, nothing more

[saxondale]

Why do people always insist on evidence of what one is telling them, regardless if the truth has been somewhat exagerated or not,

It will take you 5 mins to find out that info (well maybe a bit longer with ling as the facts will be mixed with the dribble and theres a lot of stuff to go through)

See even a thread with no mention of that mad chinese woman at the start ends up with her as the topic

Stop Earl , stop now

I`ve taken the liberty of highlighting the reason ................

[RBS]

I can agree on this - I find myself very often spending lot of time looking at very nice and stylish websites and then less reading content. I`m really addictive to nice designs and stylish things. But maybe its just me like that?

Ugly website, even with good copy, wouldnt not encourage me to buy. The way my brain thinks - if website is ugly, then company must be poor if they cant afford proper one -->they are not getting business to make money -->then they are no good.

If I have never met company in real life, I have no choice as value them by website.

[MU Shirts]

Amazon is a pretty ugly website in my opinion... yet it's the number 1 ecommerce website.

It might have useful cutting-edge features upselling and cross-selling all sorts of their products but its messy pages puts me off. I only go to Amazon to find information on books, especially rare ones. Did you ever try getting in touch with them? They don't even have a 'contact us' or 'about us' link on their homepage.

I do have to agree that content is more useful than a pretty site. But a pretty site with content is surely a winner?

[Colin Parker]

Amazon is a pretty ugly website in my opinion... yet it's the number 1 ecommerce website.

It might have useful cutting-edge features upselling and cross-selling all sorts of their products but its messy pages puts me off. I only go to Amazon to find information on books, especially rare ones. Did you ever try getting in touch with them? They don't even have a 'contact us' or 'about us' link on their homepage.

I do have to agree that content is more useful than a pretty site. But a pretty site with content is surely a winner?

'Pretty' to one person is 'pretty good' and to another 'pretty bad'.

Don't judge a book by it's cover - and don't judge a website on it's looks.

Colin Parker

[MU Shirts]

'Pretty' to one person is 'pretty good' and to another 'pretty bad'.

Don't judge a book by it's cover - and don't judge a website on it's looks.

Colin Parker


Thus the '...in my opinion'!