Is it worth trying to sell Linux to home users?

[JoyDivision]

I am spending all my time removing viruses from Windows PC which made me think surely these people would be better of with Ubuntu since all they do is basic word processing and web surfing anyway?

I use Ubuntu more than Windows now and its just better.

[webhostuk]

Hello,

I will surely support you..I also love Linux OS.Much better to prevent virus.

[FreelanceSoftwareDeveloper]

I haven't used Ubuntu recently so not sure how it's getting on for compatibility?

New printer, mobile phone, digital camera, iPod etc. Will all these plug and play with no user knowledge.

Whilst an experienced user might be able to find suitable applications when you put the CD and it doesn't work it's not the best user experience.

I like linux but to sell it to Joe Public is difficult as often they won't understand what it is and why it won't run x, y & z. It would work with some users who want to do 3 things, go online, check email, type letters and have no other interst in computers or prior knowledge so as long as you show them how to do those 3 things they are happy.

[Comspec]

My own preference is Linux Mint tbh, its excellent.

We offer it here, but its slow take-up as only word-of-mouth promotion at present.

Its pitched as an option to put onto an older PC, which maybe they are replacing, to keep as a 2nd internet PC, or for younger children, etc.

There is definitely a market for it, but I don't think you can push it to people who are expecting to get using M$ applications, or playing certain games, etc.

[FireFleur]

People do give this a whirl, and to be honest there is not much lost in trying it out.

Home users who just want the basics of a modern computer system, would benefit from going with a Linux or BSD style system, but the proviso is very much on the peripherals; gadgets and extra software both are still quite complex to ensure they work.

And whilst there is more equipment that works with Linux kernels than perhaps any other OS, it tends to make that number in the more esoteric gear that consumers often don't have access to or are even aware of. Most consumer gadget makers will tend to provide a driver for Windows and Apple's offerings but still sort of lag behind in the Linux world, sometimes they will just do it arse about face as well when they do, do it.

The benefits of secure remote admin are large though, as well as all the extra security tools and concepts so it makes logical sense, but that is not always an overriding factor.

[BrecklandGroup]

Weve found that it simply does'nt work with home users due to driver support. I love some of the brands of Linux, but spending 30 minutes modifying source files to get a basic USB N dongle working is not going to work with most home users.

They just want to bung the CD in the drive and have the drivers installed.

We typically install it for clients who no longer have any of the Windows disks (or more importantly, licences) as a cheaper way to get a running pc again.

[That Guy]

I have played with OpenSuse and think its great. No sure how it would go down with other home users though. I would of kept it apart from the fact I use Adobe Fireworks. I tried GIMP but just couldn't get on with it.

[JDX_John]

I am spending all my time removing viruses from Windows PC which made me think surely these people would be better of with Ubuntu since all they do is basic word processing and web surfing anyway?

I use Ubuntu more than Windows now and its just better.No it's not. Anyone who works in IT needs to be objective and unbiased. Linux has advantages, Windows has advantages, Mac has advantages, and all have disadvantages.

Using Linux is not an alternative to installing a Virus checker, and using a firewall. Windows is secure with very little work, unless you go to dodgy sites.

If people can live without Word because they don't share documents with anyone, Mac is the obvious choice for non-techies in my opinion. But I'd rather suggest Windows set up properly than push my personal opinion on helpless users who will believe whatever they're told.

[FireFleur]

Linux has a firewall built into the kernel, netfilter (http://www.netfilter.org/). Though it should be remembered that a firewall offers another point of attack. In fact the author of the excellent Firewalls and Internet Security (http://library.poisedsolutions.com/cyber-security/hardening/firewalls-and-internet-security.xhtml) often 'skinny dips'.

Viruses need to be able to execute in some fashion, and with most unix filesystems not only can partitions be marked as non executable the file has to be marked as executable as well. Whereas in windows a .exe file extension is enough to make something executable. Windows programs also have a lot of macro features which is something most Open Source developers eskew, or take security very seriously about if introduced, it is a well known entry point for viruses.

Dodgy sites, that's quite amusing, there was a spate of compromises on windows based anti virus makers sites, just a short while back, and along with ad programs and more websites, malware can be launched from anywhere really.

[JDX_John]

I can't remember having a virus for years of using my XP PC 12+ hours a day.

Anyone who thinks Windows is 'wide open' to viruses is highly biased, that's provably not the case. Even turning on Windows Update and Windows Firewall can make for a pretty secure system. I'm pretty certain as Linux & Mac get more popular, we'll see a spate of attacks on them.

[FireFleur]

People have been releasing proof of concept viruses for some Linux distros, the main problem with a virus is between chair and computer, but for a worm it is about the OS, Daemons and Applications running. The first worm was done by exploiting sendmail so UNIX gets the accolade there.

Security and usability will always run contrary to each other, and if someone wants to execute a program then they're not going to be stopped on their own system. But, securing Unix based systems is a lot simpler and securing users is not that hard to achieve, so it works well in a business environment.

A lot of bluechips still run WYSE terminals for this reason (though there was a compromise there not too long back as well).

Compromises are primarily a numbers game, there is a lot of desktop and home users on windows so it will attract more attacks, but that is because usability needs to be high for them so there's no silver bullet, and educating them is way too expensive and on the whole not particularly successful.

A lot of security folk will say the war in cyber security was lost a long time ago when it comes to the majority of users, and there is a lot of truth in that.

But, Linux distros are many, and that makes it annoying to attack, as each compromise may not span the distros so a silver lining of sorts.

[JDX_John]

Agreed about users being the problem. I don't know there IS a solution, which lets users install applications. Sandboxes I guess, but that makes usability a problem.

[FireFleur]

Yeah that is it, every solution people come up with costs in usability, everyone still looks and hopes, but it is either successful education which costs, or more complicated systems that also cost.

Security itself is really about monitoring and having procedures in place to deal with security problems, just bottom line cost always.

At a development level though, some have found security advantages in other procedures Beautiful Security (http://library.poisedsolutions.com/cyber-security/hardening/beautiful-security.xhtml) details some of those, amongst other interesting real world stories.

[cjd]

Linux is good enough now for consumers - particularly Ubuntu - but there's a really familiarity and compatibility problem. Most things work but there are enough things that don't or you can't work out how to make work, to make it a fairly difficult step.

It's much better for business though as they generally do only use basic things whereas consumers tend to want all sorts of audio visual programmes and devices to just work - and to be objective about it, they often don't with Linux and do with Windoze.

[JoyDivision]

I am a windows fan, I use it on my main PC (this one) because it runs Photoshop etc. I have Mint on my business machine (used for transfering and disinfecting clients files) and Ubuntu on my laptop. I have xbuntu on my old PIII netbook.

Everything works on Ubuntu but I haven't tried it with an ipod, I've even got some windows programs working under Wine.

However I agree it might become a problem for some clients, if I did pitch it I would only ever pitch it for older computers which have a simple duty and would never pitch it as a main operating system.

[JDX_John]

I agree that for non-savvy users Linux would be better suited in environments where users aren't the ones maintaining their own PCs. In a business setting, your IT department can take care of the hassle of getting it all set up and then most users will just use email, web browsing and spreadsheet/word-processor (although see my comments on OpenOffice in the other thread, which apply to GoogleDocs too).

Mac is still the better choice for usability if you must have a non-MS environment though - but it's an expensive option.

[SFD]

My sister had a corrupt version of XP on her laptop, no recovery disc (no longer supported) and didn't want to pay for a new operating system.

I decided to put xubuntu on for her as she only wanted it for facebook and word processing.

It has been no end of problems and something I wouldn't do again.

She went and bought an ipod, then tried to install itunes which wouldn't work, changed her internet dongle, then couldn't install the software and also a printer she was using isn't supported and doesn't have the drivers available.

I did use ubuntu myself for a short period of time but found everyday use a pain after awhile and decided on w7 instead. The main problems I had was new printer wasn't supported and my media player connected to my TV wouldn't read the files written by linux, even after installing several fixes.

I think linux is great and the support is great but a lot of little things are just easier with Microsoft.

[Comspec]

Someone mentioned about Wireless dongles giving trouble, but I set up a Linux Mint 8 PC here the other day, plugged in a 'cheapie' USB Wireless Adaptor, and Mint recognised and installed it immediately, no probs. Moving from wired to wireless took all of 1 minute.

The speed of it on these older machines is unreal, and for an inexpensive option for a home-user, it can be a great offering.

Realistically, once the machine is set up properly, with Openoffice, etc, it needs little input from the Home User, who will mainly use it for browsing etc.

[JoyDivision]

Yep and the exact user this is aimed at this the ones that keep getting viruses with Windows no matter how much security they have. I know Linux is not fool proof but the average clueless computer user Windows is too risky there days,

[benjamin_c]

What's peoples opinions on macs? they're my preference although i do run a windows laptop too for the odd program that doesn't run on mac. but the mac operating system is the most stable i have ever used and is just so user freindly and secure. the only reason why more people haven't converted is due to the higher initial cost of purchase, although my argument is that after 3 or so years a used mac will sell for a reasonable price so the actuall cost of ownership is on par with a Windows computer.

i have used linux before and like it in a strange kind of way but i couldn't see it ever being a viable option to a main system.

I find windows ok to run but it needs to be managed, regular updates and virus checks and defrag and such like, most users just use it and neglect this and thats when problems appear. macs are usable by anyone and dont require this level of attention.

[cjd]

Someone mentioned about Wireless dongles giving trouble, but I set up a Linux Mint 8 PC here the other day, plugged in a 'cheapie' USB Wireless Adaptor, and Mint recognised and installed it immediately, no probs. Moving from wired to wireless took all of 1 minute.

Yup, and I bought one 4 weeks ago that just will not work and I find from the forums that it can't be made to work. The truth is that a lot of (most?) hardware comes with windows and mac compatible on the box - you have to hope for Linux. Much as I love it.

[KM-Tiger]

Yup, and I bought one 4 weeks ago that just will not work ...

Yes, got quite a few here in the same state. Luckily they all came free with other things so no loss.

To answer the original question: it can only do you good to offer something extra, which maybe your competitors cannot, but do beware the support issues with some hardware.

[FireFleur]

WiFi is more problematic in the UK from what I have seen. And it is something anyone building WiFi devices with Linux as the kernel needs to be aware of.

The Open Pandora (http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2&lang=en) project has just run into the WiFi problems and it was problematic on EEEs as well.

You have to match the chipset to a known working WiFi driver. With that said, once you get the compatible gear, it works a treat.

As far printers goes, there was recent update to CUPs that probably blew quite a lot of setups, but that is Linux isn't it, you have to enjoy fixing it, and admining it in business.

These problems happen with other Operating Systems, but there it is much harder to fix yourself, and you are often waiting on just a small selection of people, whereas with Linux the community is large, and people enjoy making the fixes and publicising them.

[Subbynet]

I think some people just need to check what their doing before running out and purchasing IT equipment.

Lets be honest, for things like Wifi adaptors and printers many of you would have looked at just the price, not the compatibility with your OS, despite knowing it says "compatible for windows" on the box.

Not trying to be smart, but there's an obvious problem here.. If you googled beforehand, you wouldn't have so many issues.

[cjd]

Not trying to be smart,

Try harder :-)

[Subbynet]

Try harder :-)

No need too, all my stuff works just fine thanks :D

[JoyDivision]

I may actually offer ready built machines with built in WIFI I've worked out I could offer this for £220 for a complete system and with support but I need my workshop setup first.

[FireFleur]

Bluetooth can be another problem, as can DVB.

Which is actually not too bad from a business sense, as if you can get the items that work well then they can buy off you for the extra peripherals.

Each peripheral type is covered by at least one device, though mobile phone syncing can be a pain, but there often work arounds, and of course you can make people aware early of potential problems as well.

It is more effort to sell Linux based systems than it is other systems.

[JoyDivision]

The type of client I am pitching this to won't be using bluetooh or even own an ipod ;) It is just for the casual user who also seems to get viruses all the time :).

PS as a reply to some earlier comment, I've used windows for years and never had a virus but I know how to avoid them, joe bloggs in the street does not.

[Comspec]

If you are supplying the machines WiFi ready, and you give the user a list (and maybe supply them too) of the 'recommended' peripherals that are best for their setup, then you can avoid a load of the basic support issues.

There is a market out there for them, because they can be cheap and yet good enough performers.

[JoyDivision]

Thats pretty much the idea to sell tried and tested boxes even with a printer which I know works as an option. It too me less than two minutes to get my HP wireless printer to work with Ubuntu.

[BrecklandGroup]

Thats pretty much the idea to sell tried and tested boxes even with a printer which I know works as an option. It too me less than two minutes to get my HP wireless printer to work with Ubuntu.

I personally would stay away from offering ready built pcs as you will be expected to support it for free - after all, if they break a setting etc, they will be constantly calling you.

When you can buy a PC from PC world for less than £250 with windows already installed, why try and be a provider. Let them buy and get no support from somewhere else and make £65 a quid a call when they get infected with Antivirus 2010 or Salit etc?

Its hard enough trying to make a living as an IT Company now - dont make it any harder for yourself.

[KidsBeeHappy]

Is Unbunto still the "laptop killer"?

[Subbynet]

Is Unbunto still the "laptop killer"?

You on about the harddrive bug? That was fixed a long time ago...

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695

I heard recently MS provided a patch to protect users using IE, but the patch itself made the security issue bigger.

Go figure, from "professionals" being paid, to people working at home for free - everyone cocks up sometime.

[KidsBeeHappy]

OK. that may be my solution to the "kids laptop"
(See I am at least savvy enough to keep them on their own (completely choked up virus infected) PC!!)