PPC - Fraud does it exist ? Do you blindly pay every month

[GreenLaser]

When talking PPC , i think for most we are basically talking about the google one :-)

Going back a few years after the florida update* my visitors disappeared overnight ..... so only way forward was PPC , at first it was fine for about 9 months to a year , then the costs started doubling , but the sales didnt.

I bought a peice of software that monitored Ips of click and number of them and discovered that even though i was targetting Uk ONLY a huge number 60% + of the clicks were coming in bursts , only a couple of minutes per hour and multiple and Ips were in ASIA .... at the time support from adwords was non existant and when i finally got replies their main points was to question validity of the new software i was using. At the time there was either click farms set up to boost the big Gs profits or a competitor had employed people or a macro to do the clciking !

Just wondering if you blindly pay every month and hope for the best , or do you have software that monitors , or does adwords now have internal software that monitors , how is their support nowdays ? have you ever questioned your clicks , how do they react ?

I have been a PPC exile for years now , it sends a shiver down my spine ! the thought of it but its maybe time to look at it again.




* if your new to ecommerce and dont know what the florida update is I suggest you study intensly ..... it caused suicides as google played with their algorithim .... IMHO to force people into PPC and boost their share values before going to stock market.

[fisicx]

We monitor every single click. So far there hasn't been a problem, costs are reducing and leads are increasing. Loadsamoney all round.

Of course using PPC landing pages alongside the organic pages helps.

[gryyym]

Yes, fraud exists, but its probably less of a problem nowadays because Google have being working hard to resolve the issue. Can't say the same for Yahoo, their traffic from "partnering sites" is terrible. I read somewhere that soon it will be possible to exclude those sites and I do hope that Yahoo and Bing fully integrated, the traffic quality will improve.

Still, the thought of fraud shouldn't stop anyone creating & optimizing a successful Adwords campaign.

[alanc]

Google are supposed to be able to spot click-farms and not charge you (or pay them). I have had credit from Google, so there must be something in it.

There are a couple of things you need to do with PPC:
- turn off Google Content Network (stops every Tom, Dick and Harriet earning money from your advert).
- only advertise in the UK (if that's what your targetting)
- limit the budget
- don't pay for no. 1 position
- monitor the searches that are causing your clicks (Google kindly list them) and set up negative keywords to stop inapproriate traffic.

[alanc]

Going back a few years after the florida update* my visitors disappeared overnight ..... so only way forward was PPC , at first it was fine for about 9 months to a year , then the costs started doubling , but the sales didnt.

You have the No. 1 organic search result for "laser pointers uk". What's the problem?

[mattsaw]

Generally I turn off the content network. Fraudulant or not, most placements are designed to trick people into clicking on the ads, so conversion rates are awful.

[gryyym]

Are you advising people to avoid using the content network simply because it didn't work for you?

The content network is the biggest ad platform in the world. If you are "turning it off" you are simply doing it wrong.

You need a separate campaigns for search and content. The way keywords are selected and grouped is different. Yet, its even better to have 4 campaigns
-search
-content with keyword targeting
-content images
-content placements

And its not about not bidding for high placements on search, but rather learning how to be be there and pay less.

Most PPC campaigns will fail if you just launch them and wait for results.

Its a matter of testing,tracking & optimizing in order to see a good ROI.

[mattsaw]

I would love to hear of success stories with the content network, but in my experience, and many many business that I have worked with it's simply not the case.

I have also seen things from another angle as a publisher myself I have seen sites that encourage people to click on their ads through emails, formal and informal click exchanges, cleverly placed content and images designed to trick users into clicking on ads.

If I'm going to be paying for someone to visit my site, then I want them to know where they're going and what they're clicking on, that isn't the case with a large proportion of the content network due to MFA sites.

Of course there is the option to select individual sites manually, but I find I get a much better deal if I cut out AdSense and go to them direct.

[SteveGibson]

Generally I turn off the content network. Fraudulant or not, most placements are designed to trick people into clicking on the ads, so conversion rates are awful.

I've really been getting into the content network over the last few months. With the placement tools that are now available, I think it's excellent.

(and very profitable)

However, it requires a totally different mindset and setup to search. And, for that reason, the two should always be kept separate.

Steve

[gryyym]

Some product and services are not suited for content the same way some are not suited for Facebook for example.

The mindset is the key, that's why keywords/adcopy/landing pages should be different for search and content.

Conversion % is lower most of the time but its compensated by lower CPC.

One useful strategy is to sell the product on search, but gain a future customer on content.

[mattsaw]

Any chance you can elaborate on that Steve, I'm always open to new revenue streams :)

[SteveGibson]

Any chance you can elaborate on that Steve, I'm always open to new revenue streams :)

Here are a few comments:

(1) I've always thought the content network would work far better for lead gen than for immediate sales. What got me into it was a test for a client who sells consumer electronics. When I saw those were converting well (cost per conversion around half the profit of the sale - i.e. a 2:1 ROI), I tried it with a number of other clients and results have been good.

(2) Ads should be different to search as the mindset of the prospect is different (one is searching, the other is being interrupted).

(3) Keywords should be different as content keywords are designed to tell the google algo that you're relevant to the content on the page.

(4) Google gives a breakdown of the domains your ads have been shown on. You need to keep on top of this. Some sites will be good for you, some bad.

I've found that, by dumping the really low ctr sites, google starts rewarding me with more placement on good sites. I've yet to work out the ins-and-outs of this - i.e. what's being triggered in the algo to cause this - but it seems to happen consisntently.

I've yet to find many good resources on the content network - and a lot of the stuff is contradictory - so I'm learning slowly by trial and error. But results so far have been good and conversions are often cheaper than on search.

Steve

[mattsaw]

I've yet to find many good resources on the content network - and a lot of the stuff is contradictory - so I'm learning slowly by trial and error. But results so far have been good and conversions are often cheaper than on search.

That's generally what I've seen, and I probably don't have the patience to experiment too much.

One question - when you do find good sites on the content network, aren't you tempted to go do a deal with them direct? As you say, these tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

[GreenLaser]

"You have the No. 1 organic search result for "laser pointers uk". What's the problem? "

You been stalking me alan LOL ... well i got 600 products .. about 60 are lasers ...i got products ....at moment i dont have customers :-(

PAUL

[leom]

i was going to use ppc, you are scaring me now!

[GreenLaser]

Leom ... dont be scared you CANT go over what you allocate to spend , just be careful your tracking results , clicks and pull out quickly if it aint working ( no dirty jokes please )

Wish i could rememebr the name of that tracking software mm

[gryyym]

Here are a few comments:

(1) I've always thought the content network would work far better for lead gen than for immediate sales. What got me into it was a test for a client who sells consumer electronics. When I saw those were converting well (cost per conversion around half the profit of the sale - i.e. a 2:1 ROI), I tried it with a number of other clients and results have been good.

(2) Ads should be different to search as the mindset of the prospect is different (one is searching, the other is being interrupted).

(3) Keywords should be different as content keywords are designed to tell the google algo that you're relevant to the content on the page.

(4) Google gives a breakdown of the domains your ads have been shown on. You need to keep on top of this. Some sites will be good for you, some bad.

I've found that, by dumping the really low ctr sites, google starts rewarding me with more placement on good sites. I've yet to work out the ins-and-outs of this - i.e. what's being triggered in the algo to cause this - but it seems to happen consisntently.

I've yet to find many good resources on the content network - and a lot of the stuff is contradictory - so I'm learning slowly by trial and error. But results so far have been good and conversions are often cheaper than on search.

Steve

I think we are pretty much on the same page.

As for CTR, I have seen time and again that its very important to Google. I usually even delete adgroups with low CTR because they are hurting the overall performance of a campaign.

High CTR means lower CPC and better placements. At the end of the day, as far as Google is concerned, its all about CPM not CPC.

An ad with high bid but low CTR will usually make them less money per 1000 impressions than an ad with lower bid but high CTR.

[SteveGibson]

One question - when you do find good sites on the content network, aren't you tempted to go do a deal with them direct? As you say, these tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

I'm aware of this technique, but the sites tend to be sites that are very high volume and the hassle of dealing with us probably outweighs the money they'd gain if we cut out the middleman.

It may be something I'll try in the future.

Steve