Road Tax : A Better Way?

[Naughty Vend]

Being from Scotland I have been aware for some time of this 'nanny state' politics going on in regard to binge drinking and the government's intention to tax at a higher rate per unit of alcohol pro-rata, in an attempt to curb the drinking of cheap booze quickly...

Which got me to thinking about our new emmissions based road taxation system, I thought was based upon a reduction in emmissions but makes no allowance for consumption quantity in the way the new proposal for booze shall i.e. the more you drink the more you pay = the more CO2 you spew out the more you pay. You see I drive not one but two large engined petrol vehicles a 3.2 V6 and a 4.4 one of which is the tree-hugger icon of evil, the 4 x 4 off-roader but that car has done 63,000 miles (6,500 miles p/a average) and is soon to be ten years old because we walk most places and the other car has done less than 4,000 miles p/a average which is usage between two people over two cars. So what's my point...?

Well why should my car have a top-level £430 burden when the guy next door driving his 2200 diesel pay a fraction of the road tax @ 169 kg/m and on 20,000 miles per annum compared to my 317 kg/m on about 6,000 miles per annum which is a third his mileage but not quite double the emissions per mile and if you add it all up less total CO2 output in my favour. Not to mention the carbon footprint of making a new car compared to me keeping mine on the road, goverment scrapage scheme well flawed in that respect so drop the "s" from scrapage..! I do less miles, I put out less CO2 yet I get taxed more.

So, why not combine road tax and MOT's in that at the garage you get told your current CO2 readings not the manufacturer originals, this gets multiplied by your mileage since last MOT and then you get your road tax bill where like income there's an "allowance" so anything under a certain output would be free of charge and anything over would be taxed... the more your drive, the less environmentally friendly you are then fairly the more you pay. It also would help in the fight against road tax and MOT dodgers, we have the technology so why not bloomin' well use it..?

We can't continue with this general approach to the problem but we don't need to overcomplicate it either, this I believe is a workable and fairer idea which the government already has the concept of thanks to this new anti-drinking campaign.

[Zeal]

You have some valid points.

My tax is £240. Not as much as yours!

Tax should be calculated at your MOT... but only calculated by the mileage you've done since your last check.

Miles + CO2 p/mile = Tax

People who drive less - should pay less tax.

[vJoshv]

I also believe that the current system could be better, as it is unfair to some drivers. From what I believe, countries like America for example do not pay Road tax? They pay at Toll Booths? I belive this idea to be better because it works on a kinda pay-as-you-drive scheme where people who travel lots and use the roads more in respect have to pay more, and the casual driver pays less. I also believe that all though the toll booth charges are small/ish they revert people from using certain roads and their cars all together, so from mother natures point of view its all goood :)! Business who rely heavily on the roads and eg. Haulage companies, can purchase unlimited passes at a lower rate, so their trucks can drive through dedicated lanes at the toll booths with out stopping. Doubt this would ever be brought into place in the UK though :(

[James.Dunford]

The problem with that is that there is a major flaw in it, it involves humans. IE, Emmisions can be rigged, as can mileage, and in my opinion we would see a lot more "clocking" going on...!

Another problem is, what happens when the car gets sold and you buy a new one? You could base it on the previous year, however if for example you move and get a smaller car or something similar it may be a long way out, and then a rebate needed at the end of the year.

My tax however (on my little car) was £35 this year so i like the way it works!

[craiga1971]

Simpler method. Scrap VED and increase duty on the fuel. Polluter pays.

Craig

[Big Pete]

Road tax = Another stealth tax ..

A fraction actually goes on the roads , and the fuel has 50% tax on it as well ..

Just another Uk Rip off !! In Spain fuel is 90p a litre and my road tax here some £40

And the roads all superb smooth tarmac and dual carriageways etc..

When are the motorists gonna stand up for themselves ???

[Duke Fame]

Simpler method. Scrap VED and increase duty on the fuel. Polluter pays.

Craig

You got it in one there, it's very simple. The only issue is in haulage where close European countries rely mainly on tolls to finance road building and hence, whilst our jolly truckers are paying tolls over in Johnny foreign land, the evil foreign truck driver (who probably can't even drive) can come over here with a full tank, drive on our beautiful british roads for nowt.

If govt really do believe emissions make a major difference to the perceived problem of climate change, then it's very simple. Take VAT off car parts and repairs, that will encourage good maintainance. They could also charge for the MOT in line with emmissions provided at the time of the test, not the 'official' rating which can easily change due to tuning.

[GreenLaser]

"Simpler method. Scrap VED and increase duty on the fuel. Polluter pays"

Hwo come just about everyone I knows thinks this is a great idea ...road tax is a crazy Bureaucracy with whole systems and in place especially for it , when they could simply whip two pence on a litre and its gets collected through the existing systems ..hence saving likely millions in an extra collection system and saving making people criminals and throwing points on their licence because they were on holiday or unwell or simply forgot

ROAD TAX is crazy BAN IT

[Rhyl Lightworks]

The reason we still have road tax is so that the licencing authorities, police, etc. can see which vehicles are legally on the road. If there was none it would mean nobody would know how many vehicles there were. It also (in theory) means every vehicle is checked it has an MOT and valid insurance once a year.
I feel there should be more of a swing towards the cost of fuel comsumption and away from road taxation, but it should not be abolished altogether.

Barrie

[sirearl]

The reason we still have road tax is so that the licencing authorities, police, etc. can see which vehicles are legally on the road. If there was none it would mean nobody would know how many vehicles there were. It also (in theory) means every vehicle is checked it has an MOT and valid insurance once a year.
I feel there should be more of a swing towards the cost of fuel comsumption and away from road taxation, but it should not be abolished altogether.

Barrie


I think it more likely that road tax means the government can be sure the till is full each year.

Easy enough to issue a disc with the M.O,T.

Earl

[benjamin_c]

All this emissions stuff is rubbish, i appreciate the need to charge a degree of tax for road maintenance ect and that’s fair but why charge someone between £35 to almost £500 based on emissions when the person with the larger car will use more fuel and therefore pay more fuel duty, if they insist on having road tax then it should be a fixed price for all road users whether a Toyota Prius or a Range Rover.
The higher charge isn't the government caring for the environment, its just blatant profiteering and its been over complicated. It should either be incorporated within fuel duty, which would cut out DVLA admin and save money or just be a fixed price for everyone say £200 a year fixed, and tax disks are stupid as ANPR is everywhere and can check if a car is taxed automatically.
And before any of the environmentalists start ranting, I do care for the environment but believe that people should not be penalised due to the car they choose to drive.
The government are always finding ways of getting our hard earned money into their coffers! Anyone remember the pay-per-mile idea that was on the news a year or so ago? What ever next…..

[GreenLaser]

I think th counting cars , valid insurance, valid MOT argument is a historical argument ........with the computerisation of insurance checks and MOTs its a dying argument

Heres an idea ! Speed cameras should be converted to not only check for speed but check for up to date insurance ! the technology is all there just needs implemented

Road tax like TV licence to me is prehistoric outdated unfair expensive to implement and very expensive to collect taxes ... any progressive goverment should dump them

Collection of TV licences costs ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY MILLION pounds per year

Ok i will get off my soapbox now

[Zeal]

Heres an idea ! Speed cameras should be converted to not only check for speed but check for up to date insurance ! the technology is all there just needs implemented


I never even though about that!

I mean, some police cars have the cameras on the front checking plates anyway... Surely speed cameras can be linked to the same system then send a message to the local camera office (what ever it's called).

[Naughty Vend]

The reason we still have road tax is so that the licencing authorities, police, etc. can see which vehicles are legally on the road. If there was none it would mean nobody would know how many vehicles there were. It also (in theory) means every vehicle is checked it has an MOT and valid insurance once a year.
I feel there should be more of a swing towards the cost of fuel comsumption and away from road taxation, but it should not be abolished altogether.

Barrie

No idea how this works, if someone could enlighten me and others...

In America you have a marking on your number plate from the DMV (the state) and a square certificate on the windscreen, is that the MOT as such on display for all to see? If so that's a good idea but it should have a machine readable holograph, so you'll still get scams but...

As for tax, I think tax should be on the commodity it is for period without exception. Road tax is for anything "road" and school tax "school" and so on, my kid is 21 this year but I still pay for schools. Thing is where are the lines drawn?

[Naughty Vend]

Collection of TV licences costs ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY MILLION pounds per year

Really, that's shocking...

As analogue is phased out there's no need, your licence fee should be subscription based which is a seperate argument to how the BBC is funded as it could always be that the beeb is mandatory (as it is now). One smart card = problem solved = no BBC if you do not pay.

I would pay for the BBC and dump the other channels, only they seem not to repeat one episode twelve times a week at different times on basis others can only watch at certain times and the beed accomodate all licence payers. Tosh, we have VCRs in the 80's and digital media storage today.

For all government taxation there needs to be some relative alignment, hey Gordon if you're reading my salary is negotiable... LOL :D

[craiga1971]

Heres an idea ! Speed cameras should be converted to not only check for speed but check for up to date insurance ! the technology is all there just needs implemented



If a speed camera is designed to detect speed limit offences which MIGHT be safety related whereas lack of insurance is, effectively, a document offence.

Scrap speed cameras completely!

Craig

[Duke Fame]

The reason we still have road tax is so that the licencing authorities, police, etc. can see which vehicles are legally on the road. If there was none it would mean nobody would know how many vehicles there were. It also (in theory) means every vehicle is checked it has an MOT and valid insurance once a year.
I feel there should be more of a swing towards the cost of fuel comsumption and away from road taxation, but it should not be abolished altogether.

Barrie

The obvious answer to this Barrie is to display the MOT instead of a tax disc, MOT's can only be issued with an insurance document.

[GreenLaser]

"Speed cameras should be converted to not only check for speed but check for up to date insurance"

insurance comapnies as a group could pay for the install and maintenace easing the taxpayers burdon ....... and they recoup by a large percentage of the estimated 2 million cars in uk that are uninsured becoming insured

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE50J2Q020090120

Not having car tax says says nothing about the driver ...having no insurance show a blatent disregard for society as a whole

[craiga1971]

"Speed cameras should be converted to not only check for speed but check for up to date insurance"

insurance comapnies as a group could pay for the install and maintenace easing the taxpayers burdon ....... and they recoup by a large percentage of the estimated 2 million cars in uk that are uninsured becoming insured

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE50J2Q020090120

Not having car tax says says nothing about the driver ...having no insurance show a blatent disregard for society as a whole

The problem with that approach is twofold:

1. Insurance is usually on a per-vehicle basis. How can a camera determine who is driving the vehicle, and thus

2. Whether they have adequate cover in place.

Unless some agency can stop vehicles and determien who the driver is and what insurance is in force, then I can't see a camera being of much value.

Craig

[easyasit]

I agree with Earl, i feel the road tax thing is right up there with safety cameras for being a stealth tax.
For the extortionate road tax we pay, we still need to pay to park in some residential areas and the M6 t

oll (another con)
But this aside, to be honest the state of many of the roads is appaling, pot holes, badly lit. Under maintained.
Not only this but taking several years to widen motorways like they did with the M1 and are doing with M25, why does it take so long to do.

Taxing 4 wheel drive cars off the road when these might have been the only vehicle able to help get people into work this year with all the snow we have seen.
I can understand the cutting of CO2 emissions, but i feel helping people to buy cleaner more efficient cars is the answer.
Not only this but changing the way we do things.

The governments answer to everything seems to be tax.

[GreenLaser]

"The governments answer to everything seems to be tax."

Hear Hear

What else can they do they have run out of laws to invent now Europes looking after all the decent stuff

[easyasit]

The sooner we realise the government only understands these things
Tax
Ban
Penalty
and more tax, the sooner we will understand this government :-)

Furthermore we need to remember that the governments answer to everything is to profit from a crisis :-)

[Rhyl Lightworks]

The obvious answer to this Barrie is to display the MOT instead of a tax disc, MOT's can only be issued with an insurance document.

I agree this would be fine for vehicles more than 3 years old, both what about those less than 3 years?

Barrie

[sirearl]

The obvious answer to this Barrie is to display the MOT instead of a tax disc, MOT's can only be issued with an insurance document.

Are you sure about that.?

I suspect not.

Earl

[craiga1971]

Are you sure about that.?

I suspect not.

Earl

I think he means VED - as VED discs can only be issued with valid insurance and an MOT (if vehicle is over 3 years old).

Craig.

[Naughty Vend]

Did anyone catch the "Clarkson Meets The ______" program on Dave, well no doubt that will be repeated and bearing in mind the series is so old that this episode on Spain they were talking Pesetas not Euros.

He had a point, well several as you can imagine he does... :rolleyes:

That in that year (?) most EC countries received €30 million in fishing subsidy where Spain got about €110 million, so the UK fisherman pays his tax to the government and they pay their dues to the EEC membership and that ends up in the coffers of the Spanish fisherman whom buys diesel and sails to English seas to nick the fish. Also and I liked this one alot, our roads are a disgrace but again the Spanish receive €millions in subsidy for building and development and I remember and still see all those EC Funded signs on construction projects... Clarkson spoke of toll roads and stated, "Well I paid for this road so why should I pay twice to travel on it?" at a toll booth. Genius reporting and light entertainment...

Now that makes you think doesn't it, how much does the rest of the EEC get from us today from our tax contributions and what exactly are we getting back. Is that where all this road tax is going, to that and quangos about the socioeconomic plight of Haitian migrant one legged lesbians with driving licences whom own zebra farms and keep no more than three donkeys..? :mad:

[easyasit]

You know it dawned on me.

Imagine your driving down a public highway, go through a pot hole, damaging your car in the process.
Who can we sue for the damage?
We pay enough money to the agencies for decent roads. They are quick enough to pounce on car tax evaders, so who do we charge then for damage when these guys are neglient in keeping the roads maintained?

[dagr]

No road tax in France since around 2002.

The road tax system was heavily weighted against big-engined cars and new vehicles, but collection was not a big burden on the State as tax discs were bought directly through news agents, etc.. So, while it was good to see a tax disappear, other tax sources would have saved a lot more on bureaucracy if cut instead.