PPC - getting results

[Cloughie]

I have tried to use google adwords before to virtually no success. I just found it hard to get clicks and got zero sales.

I run a sports supplement store so it is very competitive which was part of the problem.

I have been considering trying out facebook ads to see if I can get better results with that.

Part of the problem is that this stuff seems to take a lot of time and patience and as soon I realize this, I tend to find someone who is good at it and delegate/outsource.

Is there anyone out there that is good at this and doesn't charge the earth?

Or do you hav any tips for me if I give it another go on google adwords or facebook?

[Cloughie]

Oh and I appreciate that the landing page has a lot to do with conversions.

Do a search for AtLarge Nutrition and my site will come up.

I have also toyed with the idea of running PPC campaigns for my content/community site (search for wannabebig) and then indirectly they should become atlarge customers. Do you think this is a better strategy?

[paretowasright]

Steve Gibson is your man on pay per click on here and a few others.
Best to read some pay per click threads and you will soon sort the wheat from the chaff....and there is a lot of the latter unfortunately ;)

[TheSlackers]

I run a sports supplement store so it is very competitive which was part of the problem.


Why does everybody think their market is so much more competitive than others? I never understand this :|

[Cloughie]

Why does everybody think their market is so much more competitive than others? I never understand this :|

You know, this forum is great and I am glad I have found it (only registered today) but the one thing I have noticed is that there are a few people who seem to jump in with one liners, not being particularly helpful.

I'm not one to throw around a statement just for the hell of it. I have been running my business for 5+ years and have worked in several other industries and that experience along with my own research tells me that the dietary supplement market is pretty saturated/competitive.

I think this is partly because of a huge amount of people running drop ship operations and also private label manufacurers make it very easy for people to create and sell their own brand of supplements for a fairly low investment and there is actually very little regulation.

Rergardless, I am not moaning or trying to exagerate, I was just trying to include the fact because I think it is relevant to the question I asked.

[Cloughie]

Steve Gibson is your man on pay per click on here and a few others.
Best to read some pay per click threads and you will soon sort the wheat from the chaff....and there is a lot of the latter unfortunately ;)

Thanks! I will check into him!

The main reason I have been sceptical to outsource so far is because of exactly what you say - most of the people I have spoken to about this who claim to be experts have not filled me with confidence that they are particularly an expert in the area.

I'm a fan of recommendations, so if anyone has used a company or individual and got on well with them, I would love to hear.

[KM-Tiger]

Well here's a one liner:

Steve Gibson.

[JamieM]

Hi Cloughie,

I think conversion could be an issue on your site. Do you know what your conversion rate is at the moment?

For me, I find your site very unusual to navigate and I think you should think about making it simpler.

However, that said I think US sites and shopping habits differ from the UK so you need to do some testing.

Why do you have your community separate from your shop?

[Cloughie]

Hi Cloughie,

I think conversion could be an issue on your site. Do you know what your conversion rate is at the moment?

For me, I find your site very unusual to navigate and I think you should think about making it simpler.

However, that said I think US sites and shopping habits differ from the UK so you need to do some testing.

Why do you have your community separate from your shop?

It's actually interesting that you say that because I am just about to start a complete redesign project and also moving the site to a different ecommerce platform so it' a good opportunity for me to make things simpler and easier.

It would be awesome if you could let me know what you find unusual or too complicated because I will bear it mind as I redesign for sure!

I started the content/community site first and then wanted to set up a stand along business to run along side it and I didn't want to do it under the Wannabebig brand as I thought that the name would be too limiting and by that time it had become too popular to change the name. Excellent point though.

[JamieM]

The first thing I look at when I visit your site is the graphics to shop by goal. I think shop by goal is a good feature but probably shouldn't be so prominent. I expect many customers already know what products they want to buy.

I spent a while looking for departments which are usually on the left in my experience but there aren't any department links. I found the drop down menu leading to individual products quite unusual.

I think you should create completely separate departments for Protein Powders, Creatine etc, it will make finding specific products much easier.

This probably doesn't sound like that big a deal but if you can split test it you could see some significant results.

With regards to the community do the members know you run the At Large nutrition site? I know it has banner links but if they are viewed as normal advertising I think this is completely different to an integrated shop. Community members can be very loyal. Maybe you should consider keeping running At Large separately and also add an integrated shop at wannabebig under the wannabebig brand.

[Cloughie]

The first thing I look at when I visit your site is the graphics to shop by goal. I think shop by goal is a good feature but probably shouldn't be so prominent. I expect many customers already know what products they want to buy.

I spent a while looking for departments which are usually on the left in my experience but there aren't any department links. I found the drop down menu leading to individual products quite unusual.

I think you should create completely separate departments for Protein Powders, Creatine etc, it will make finding specific products much easier.

This probably doesn't sound like that big a deal but if you can split test it you could see some significant results.

With regards to the community do the members know you run the At Large nutrition site? I know it has banner links but if they are viewed as normal advertising I think this is completely different to an integrated shop. Community members can be very loyal. Maybe you should consider keeping running At Large separately and also add an integrated shop at wannabebig under the wannabebig brand.

Wow, really interesting thoughts, thanks you.

It shows that everyone thinks a little differently and I can't assume everyone shops in the way I thought.

Having said that, I have set things up in the way I have because of my experience in how people seem to shop.

I probably don't agree that most people know what product they want. The names of our products don't always give that away and often it can be confusing to work out what does what. I think most people that come to the site do actually just have a fitness goal in mind and want some help to get to that goal more quickly. Before we added the goal section in, we would get emails virtually daily from people letting us know what they wanted to achieve and what products would help them achieve that. Also many of the other supp sites had large goal sections so it mirrored what our customers were asking us.

As for the departments, that's a fair point. In the new redesign I need to think about the best way to group products. We started with four products and there was no need for categories, but with 12 now it's starting to look as if categories might be needed. Having said that I think it still may be overkill because for many products it would only sit in one category and it always comes back to a goal in mind. I will have a think about this though.

I think most members are very aware that WBB and ALN are the same thing and we do severa things to help that (email upon joining, in our language on WBB etc) but i definately agree with you about there needing to be a more obvious link between the two.. I am going to think hard about that and see what I can do. I can efinately create a shop link at the top of the main site/forums and have it link to a WBB page explaining things an each product linking back to the ALN site for a start?

Thanks again for your thoughts, I really appreciate it!

[Cloughie]

I forgot, I do have this but it is hidden away under a section linking to it lower right of the home page.

I could place obvious store/shop links on WBB and link to this page?

[Cloughie]

ok now you got me thinking which is awesome..... :)

I could lose the whole 'stuff we like' section (affiliate programs are not doing very well) and make the whole stuff we like section (search google for 'stuff we like Wannabebig') a Wannabebig store which would contain ALN products?

Each product could have it's own page and link through to the ALN site?

[JamieM]

The best advice I can give you is to pay attention to what you said:

and I can't assume everyone shops in the way I thought.Split test everything, it really can throw up some surprising results. If you're not familiar with split testing, read up on it, it's vital if you want to improve your site.

You can also get software that will track a users movement on your site. It basically records their session so you can see where they click and how they navigate. Having a look in to this might be quite useful too.

Once you have conversion increased you should get better results from Adwords.

That sounds like a good idea for the stuff we like section. However I still think you would convert better having a wannabebig shop. Test it.

[SteveGibson]

I have tried to use google adwords before to virtually no success. I just found it hard to get clicks and got zero sales.

Ok, so the question is; has any form of paid avertising produced a decent return for you?

If the answer is "yes", then maybe the problem is the way you're doing PPC. On the other hand, if you've failed with other forms of marketing, then the constant is the website, so that would probably be the problem.

I agree with Jamie that the navigation is probably not helping.

There are a few other things as well - e.g. poor placement of the product descriptions, text is too small, no 3rd party proof in some of your own-brand product descriptions, lack of choice of products...

However, this is all educated speculation and the real truth will be found in your web analytics.

If you segment your stats to only show PPC visitors, you'll see what they do when they get to your site. That should tell you where the problem lies.

Steve

[Cloughie]

We have done very well with some advertising and not so well with other advertising as yu would probably expect.

I pretty much agree with you on most of what you have said and I plan to take a lot of that into account when I redesign the site for sure.

Steve, I sent you an email. I would be interested to hire you to go through my analytics and work out what is going on and then if you thikn that PPC is doable helping me out there too.

I have emailed you!

[SteveGibson]

I have emailed you!

I don't check my emails on a Sunday. I'll reply this morning.

Cheers,

Steve