Sales people Wanted Croydon/London

[louie66]

We are looking for excellent sales people/ well developed communicators for a role based in Croydon with regular work In London. This is a ‘no pressure’ sales role for very professional communicators. Some soft sales skills needed for both telephone and face to face sales. Absolutely no cold calling involved.

Working for the market leader in Leasehold extensions for flat owners this highly attractive role is available for a full or part time role. Monday to Thursday.

Hours are either part time (20 hrs) 4pm to 9pm
or Full time (32 hrs) 1pm to 9pm

Basic is £16,000 pro rata

o.t.e part time £26,000
part time £42,000
facebook 21st Century Sales Architects or leave contact details here

[LicensedToTrade]

From your website... http://www.21ksa.co.uk/


"What do you get if you use us?
You get a team of real life true experts who are passionate about transferring our skills to businesses, sales teams and sales people. "


....looks to me like you are selling your 'services' to companies by claiming to have a team of professional sales people, then recruiting them through forums and facebook, it is hardly a professional way to recruit now is it? I would argue that the picture of a big lemon right next to this text is a more accurate depiction of what your customers can expect.

[louie66]

Wow!

I am a little shocked at your hostility! Not at all, the team of sales people will be directly employed by the Company which is the largest in it's field and totally legitimate. I am employed to help set up the team, we are providing 3 days specific sales training and 3 weeks in house product training I am then further employed for a six month period to provide live sales training and a constant continuous sales learning culture.

I advertised on here because we have already interviewed a lot of people who were not suitable, and I thought many sales professionals may use this site. We are not just taking on anyone we are looking for proven excellent and professional sales people.

Regards

Louie

[youriv]

I don't understand the 'aggression' either. Good way to kill a great forum.

[LicensedToTrade]

If you think that that was me being agressive you wouldn't survive very long in my monthly sales reviews lol.

Louie, I'm surprised you couldn't find many suitable candidates, there are plenty out there. What recruitment menthods have you been employing up until this point? Yes there are some sales professionals around on this forum as you put it, but the vast majority are SME owners covering all manner of business sectors. I'm all up for utilising modern technology as an alternative means to achieving results but I just can't see why you would want to recruit career sales people on a public forum?

[louie66]

Well, I have never used this forum before so thought is was worth a try because we have interviewed so many people from Reeds and some recruitment companies plus many people I have worked in over the years but so far we have really only settled on one person.

It is quiet a unique role as it requires the ability to assimilate and understand a very complicated service coupled with a professional soft sell approach so I thought because this forum was so busy we may be lucky and get the 'perfect' candidate.

Maybe I should have asked someone's opinion first, I imagine you do get some 'dodgy' propositions here all the time coupled with my lack of post numbers I can understand that you thought I was one of them, but I assure you I am not : )

Regards

Louie

[LicensedToTrade]

I'm torn now :) I don't know whether to be concerned that some users of this forum will be drawn into a sales role that won't pay as much OTE as is proposed, or more concerned that you will find a load of wannabe sales people convincing you that they are the real deal.

I'll assume you are the real deal and I won't hold your terrible website against you. I'd advise you be very careful about the kind of person that accepts your invitation. Remind yourself that they are a person who hasn't managed to secure a job through traditional routes and have settled on getting a job through a forum.

As for using this forum to full advantage, there are many very good web designers that frequent the halls here. I'm sure they would be delighted to quote you for a website overhaul. It is worth investing in a solid site, especially if you are in the B2B training industry.

Best of luck!

[louie66]

I read from all your previous post that you seem to be a consistently self appointed nob but hey, I won't hold it against you either

Thanks for all your excellent advice, you seem like a really decent person

[LicensedToTrade]

My boss says I am a nob and I hold him in very high regard so you are probably right. I was actually offering what I thought was relevant advice. I'm not great at sugar-coating but you should know my intentions are kind-hearted and from time to time I am right on the money. Point out the part where my advice was wrong and I'll pack in my job and join the circus :)

[alloageorge]

i would advertise in bella magazine if i thought it would get me staff.
(and it was free) thats the great thing about interviews and trial periods

[louie66]

Well, I would say not sugar coating something is ok, I am a 'no nonsense' northerner my self, and I'm sure that those who know you realize that you are coming from a good place. That approach to a total stranger can just be perceived as rude.

I agree my website is crude, I did it myself a couple of years ago from a template thing and I do have someone designing a professional one for me as we speak. I apologize for my rudeness it has been a very long day.....

Regards

[patientlady]

Why do you think you have not found suitable sales people?

My initial thoughts on this are that if you are requiring 'a soft sell approach' then when would a sales person receive there commission? The basic offered would not pay petrol, parking & expenses...

[louie66]

As I say the role is a very complex and unique one. The first part of their role will be identifying that the information on the database is accurate, they may need to do some detective work to find the actual flat owner. then they follow a legal letter which is sent out and a) put the very complex issues into non legal speak and explain the many benefits of the service and invite them to attend a local presentation for the flat owners (traditional uptake is 80% from the meeting) finally they may be given a chance to contact any who did not decide to take up the offer and find out why

The commission is paid in four different stages. We have a clear pre defined criteria for the people we want to hire but as i say as yet we have not found the right one.

[oldeagleeye]

Well I must admit I am at a complete loss on this one. The opening post looked like a job offer from a company or recruitment agency selling leasehold extensions and even that sounded too good to be true. What £16K basic for a comfy 32 week and no pressure to convert leads. Not I fear in the real world.

Then I clicked on the web site only to find a lot of what can only be described as twaddle. It was like badly written book on sales techniques with one of the most horrendous mix matches of font's that I have ever seen and it all left me confused.
Is this site offering to train staff for other companies. Then what is it doing recruiting. I am sorry to be so sceptical but when I see a web site that is all about teaching people presentation skills and yet the web site itself is so poorly presented that it wouldn't do credit to an 11 year old given a My Site box for Christmas I have to ask what is behind all this.

In fact I keep coming back to that job offer because it really does seem to good to be true. The OP is quoting a basic of £320 quid a week for a start with OTE earnings of £41,000 for 32 week. That is more than many of the small businesses in this forum earn for working twice as many hours and there is no cold calling. No pressure he states.

Come on now. It costs a lot of money to generate leads.- sales managers don't just give them away to plonker's and therein lies what I believe is the hidden agenda behind all this. I certainly found this phrase interesting,. I quote.

"We are totally honest and will never try to sell you training you or your Company do not really need."

The relevant word there being YOU and not the corporate training programmes.

Would I be right in thinking then that for anyone to apply for this generously paid job for little work the applicant would be advised to attend a training course. Now that makes sense - doesn't it and could be a nice little earner for the OP. Did I really say little when there are almost 3 million unemployed out there.

A job at a supermarket now can get 100 applicants. If just 1 in 10 signed up for a days training course at the OP's rates we are talking nearly £2,000 a day. I reckon if you advertised 2 jobs a week in London & Birmingham you could be on nearly £500K a year.

You would of course have be utterly unscrupulous and I am not for one moment suggesting that the OP is. Just that he really ought to think about making a more professional presentation on his web site and make sure any claims made on that stand up to scrutiny.

BTW. I noted that the OP called LTT a 'nob' . That word has 2 meanings in London. The first dates back to the white wigs worn by noblemen in the 18th century and latter went on to mean anyone with a posh hat referred today as a toff. The 2nd meaning is less complimentary as in ' little white nob'. An unnking reference to a schoolboys willy wonker.

Well I am sure that LTT ain't no 9 year old playing doctors and nurses all day and took the word ' nob' as a compliment. I know I would considering all the little pricxx we get in this forum.

[louie66]

Er ..... firstly, the position is full time employed by the Company as Stated, three people will be employed and trained by me which is paid for by the Company, there is no scam involved, I am not selling training to the people recruited at all. The figures quoted for the salary are totally accurate.

Secondly, i am totally shocked at he hostility shown on this forum caused it seems by the fact I have a badly designed web site and your so knowing business guru's have turned me into a dishonest, scheming rip off artist in a couple of hours! Sweet.

You are right, all of you. This forum is not the right place to post this and I will be sure not to stop by again - keep drinking deeply from your cups of negativity.

Love and light

[oldeagleeye]

Lets get a few things straight Louie. No-one accused you of being a scam artist. Only that your web site looked like one of those American pyramid get rich quick schemes.

Now lets put that into context. If you were a member of my local chamber of trade and we were at the bar having a drink you would appreciate my saying that and for you to then come back at me saying that I was being unfair would have us laughing hysterically when I produced the punch-line. "What only 3 years to put together a reasonably respectable presentation Louie. What business did you say you were in - training in direct selling where presentation is everything. Are you sure your in the right business.":D

Come on now Louie. We have a few lines of text to reply here. We don't know you personally but we do get a whole lot of merchants on here selling snake oil so to speak & while again I am not suggesting anything untoward is behind your post the details are a little thin when it comes to the job subscription.

As a time served mortgage broker of some 25 years for example I can tell you that the Leasehold extension market is tiny. Where leasehold houses are concerned for instance leaseholders now have the right to purchase the freehold. Where leasehold flats are concerned when they drop below 60 - 70 years on a 99 year lease the solicitors step in and arrange an extension usually when arranging a new mortgage. Where then is your market ?.

Being a bit more proactive perhaps but I don't understand this talk of detective work or legal letters either. You can do a search on-line for the owner. They may sublet but a letter addressed to them will be forwarded to the landlord or agent. What may I ask is a 'legal' letter. Even a letter from a solicitors is not classed as a legal letter. It may give notice of legal proceeding etc. but it is not a legal document unless entered into evidence. And finally here. You go on to say that there is an 88% uptake at these presentations.

Frankly I find percentage wise that hard to believe even using the extremely psychological techniques used in time-share. May I ask then how many people actually attend these meetings. Indeed how many sales a salesman is expected to make to achieve that £41K a year and at what cost is this service anyway.

I repeat Louie. You opened the door to all these questions and you will continue to be placed under scrutiny because there is a fundamental flaw in your business plan in that you do not separate training from recruitment. Lets end by being a little more constructive then.

A new company plans a recruitment drive and asks your company to train the sales people. You have a tremendous edge then in being the first to know about these jobs. If you were to devote a column of your web site to say 'Hot New Sales Jobs' you could be on a winner. I personally however would have another 'Recruitment' site altogether with the enviable tag-line - full training given.

Robert

[Tej]

Hey OEE

Good post and well thought... but he ain't coming back as he was pissed off with your last post

:D:D

[oldeagleeye]

Frankly Tej I don't know whether the guy was being conned himself or not. 30 years ago for instance there was a lot of money to be madeftom extending leases in places like Mayfair and Kensington where there are a lot of the old mansion blocks. It didn't take long for the developers and legal profession to get in on the act however and 25 years later I can't see the market.

Most building socities for example will insist on an extension with under 40 -45 years to run and the solicitor will normally negociate that for what - an extra £250 quid perhaps. If this company charged double that they would still need the salesman to sell at least 5 a week to cover his expenses and operating costs.

I may of course be wrong on those prices but there is still the price x volume balance and I can't see volume. As for Croydon. Say no more.

[G. Lasagne]

I was going to watch the new sherlock homes tonight, are you the lead role OEE ;)

Seriously good post and i totally agree with OEE, i wonder how many similair businesses set-up in the middle of a recession, a friend of mine went for a job interview for a job as a personal trainer, it was great OTE 25k blah blah, at the end of the interview he said, "im pleased to say you have the job", just send us a cheque for 8k and we will get you enroled on the training program:)

[louie66]

Hey fellas,

I really do not mind constructive criticism but it didn't seem to be that way, that said reading back on my own web site did make me blush as I didn't realize it was that bad so it has certainly given me added urgency to get it sorted out.

Just to say I have been in direct sales for 24 years and have been taken in a few times with bull but not for a few years. This Company has been going for eight years and really is the market leader. They launch two new projects (a block of flats) a week and currently have an uptake of 25% by just posting letters to the flat holders. Hence they want to increase the up take by having a human face explaining what to many is a hugely complex process.

The Company are 100% honest and professional and currently have no selling at all, the meetings they hold are given by their MD, a solicitor and there is no discernible selling at those meetings at all. The company's selling point is that all the valuers they use and Solicitors are on fixed fees and they tend to mass the flat holders together to have more bargaining with the lease holder when they negotiate the cost of the lease extension from him.

i can understand your suspicion's but I think what annoyed me the most is I pride myself on my honesty and to have it called in question is a little annoying but then i suppose, why should you believe me? : ) thanks for the gee up to sort out my website any whoos

Louie

[David White]

We have a couple of good ways to specifically target some sales professionals if you are interested in recruiting. Check out the listing at http://www.advertiserbay.com/products/BANNER_ADVERTISING_ON_THESALESPRO_CO_UK-60-0.html and also one or two more other partners offering similar packages.

PM me if you are interested and I can get you some discounts on the advertised rates.

[louie66]

Cheers David, I have forwarded the link to the MD, cheers

[oldeagleeye]

Having had a brief look at some of the top players in this market I can now see where the margins come from. What I can't see however as said before is where the volume comes from that would support 3 salesmen.

One of the leading players and in top 3 of Google claims 300 clients a year. That is 2 a week for 3 salesmen. Given the salary package are we to believe they will be getting £410 per deal then. Feasible I suppose when the company are billing the customers @ £800 - £900 a deal but why aren't the salesmen queuing up.

Didn't Louie say this was a firm of solicitors ?. £41,000 a year is double a young graduate in law first years salary and thousands of not only graduates but fully qualified solicitors are out of work. Why are they not queuing up.

Who knows. I do know one thing. However reputable this company may be I would want my training fee up front if I were Louie.

[louie66]

lol : )

The company currently has 80 Live projects (blocks of flats) and have completed well over 4,000 successful lease extensions alone, with many older projects ready to be re worked as they have successfully carried out what they promised etc, the actual market is huge.

they also work in the freehold acquisition field although much more involved i.e a limited management company need to formed from the flat owners and individual flat holders need to come forward to be directors - the limited company formed must buy the lease of any flat's that do not wish to take part etc, it is still a good market to work in. (although not one I would like to make my living from)

regards