idea protection

[Astaroth]

Afternoon all

The missus has come home after a boring day at work and appears to have come up with a fairly potential idea for a B2B service.

A quick look on the internet hasnt brought anyone up who appears to be doing a similar thing.

Unfortunately the service would require some IT work which is beyond my level of expertise and so would require more financial outlay than the few small website based businesses I have previously done.

Whilst the concept comes from an area of industry we are fully versed in it would target a market which we arent therefore knowing what the appitite for the service is difficult.

The easy way of solving this issue in my mind would be to do a straw poll of a significant number of potential target companies and get their feedback. The obvious issue of doing this is that it gets the idea out into the market place and an opportunity for a company which will have more readily available capital to launch and market the service.

Is there any (low cost) way of protecting the idea from copying without requiring getting all the companies I contact to sign off a NDA prior to informing them of the service?

Cheers

[Cornish Steve]

Do you know anyone you trust who does work in the target industry? Maybe you could sound out the idea with them.

[Astaroth]

Unfortunately I dont know anyone who I would trust in the market sector. Secondly I would also (ideally) want to test the idea with a variety of sizes of companies as (1) the success of the service would be reliant on at least a couple of mid sized businesses subscribing and (2) the actual practicalities (IT/ pricing etc) of the service would vary between different size businesses.

[Enigma121]

Speaking from experience, it's likely that the idea you have won't be as original as you first think.

It's pretty much just a matter of time before someone else does it. Either before or after you have.

Software is notoriously difficult to "patent" which is what you are talking about. Even so you should seek to "keep it under raps", and NDA's are a good precaution.

You need to package the idea correctly, protect any appropriate domain names / trademarks, then seek funding to get a very rapid roll out before the competition can catch up.

If the idea is big enough, chances are it won't matter if you are ripped off. After all there is more than one brand of Cola or automobile in the world isn't there?

If you need advice on a more "substantial" web based software implementation, we would be prepared to provide a quote and if required sign up to an NDA.

This would be subject to work that we are undertaking at the moment, so we would need a "flavour" for what the work would entail, in advance of signing anything (you'll find most people would).

[Astaroth]

I am aware that someone else may well have tried to do a similar thing before but I cannot see anyone who is currently doing it and therefore any previous ventures have failed (obviously this can be due to any number of reasons and does not mean the idea is not viable)

In my current possition my speed to market is not going to be very fast (an obvious concern) due to a lack of knowledge in the market sector and, given this is an out of the blue idea, a lack of current capital.

I had hoped that there would be some form of protection which would be "below" a full patent due to the cost, the fact this is still a seed of an idea and wouldnt give me a long term protection but sufficient protection to enable me to raise capital, develop systems etc if my market research showed that it could be a viable product/ service.

[bwglaw]

A NDA would be the best way forward, but then again, can you actually afford to enforce it if the need arises? A more complex route would be to find the IT person or the key person you need to develop the idea and from a business together - you would then need to ensure the idea/IP and any other rights are protected.

[Astaroth]

My experience of NDAs is that they are more of a deterant than something you actively enforce - especially when you are talking about this early level of engagement/ development.

Luckily I do have some trusted IT people at work in terms of discussing development, system architecture and with experience of adding off the shelf bolt on components to our bespoke system and so for more detailed discussions I know who to go to (though not for the more practical costings and actual development)

My issue is knowing if there would actually be interest in the product prior to spending significant capital. Almost all of my experience has been in the B2C markets and hence my queries. I also dont know anyone in my target industry and especially not the range in size of businesses that I would like to conduct discussions with.

[bwglaw]

It is difficult to evaluate whether someone is actually building a system now and keeping it under wraps and launch when the time is right. There will always be a risk.

Yes, NDA's do/can act as deterrants

[IMEX Sourcing Services]

Hi Astorath,

Totally agree with you that NDA's do act as a deterrant. Even if you do not want to consult a Laywyer and pay to get a professionally prepared NDA, its good idea to download a basic version from the net, and modify it to suit your needs. If you want one, please PM me, and I will email it to you.

Some other "Non-Professional" methods might include.

1. Print out the basic version of your idea, get it stamped, or just write the date on it, and mail it to yourself. (Postal mail and an E-Mail too). Keep the Postal mail with you as a proof that its your idea. This method may not win you court cases, but can make a difference.

2. when you approach, potential companies, to discuss the ideas, keep a record of your meetings, with them, any emails you exchange with them, any letters exchanged, etc.

It might be a good idea to send them E-Mail or Postal letters to take appointments, rather than phone calls to begin with, so that you have some sort of proof, that you approched them. You can make a brief mention of the subject of your meeting in your emails.

Ash

[Astaroth]

on_way_to_fame

Many thanks for the suggestions - I do have a professionally created NDA from previous projects I have worked on so that isnt the issue - it is more a case of getting a decent size sample of companies opinion on a theoretical product will be difficult enough without requesting them to sign an NDA before I will even give them more than total bare bones.

I remember the post it to yourself/ solicitor method now (after you have said it of cause) from an artical on copyrights.

Many thanks for your suggestions

[Cornish Steve]

My next suggestion would be to seek partners (whom you trust) to make the idea happen. A team of people can complement one another's skills and together come up with ideas that you would never have considered alone. The team will also uncover problem areas that you may overlook.

It's important, however, to establish clear groundrules up-front. Your team must be united, not squabbling all the time.

[VeryMark]

Astaroth, there is nothing below a full patent - software can be patentable if it has what is termed a 'technical effect' - see our patent factsheet at http://www.crossguard.info/new/topics/patents-and-inventions/patents-general.html

Copyright and NDA's are your other line of defence - see our copyright factsheet at http://www.crossguard.info/new/topics/copyright-and-designs/copyright.html

[josephlordy]

Hi there,

I graduated from a Product Design course three years ago and now work in engineering. I've always thought about ideas for new products, and I think i have come up with an effective idea for a device/product to reduce fraud at cash machines.

I would like to know where to go from here. I know i can copyright my own work, and will look to get my design registered for £60. But is it advisable to get a patent, which i can't realy afford.

Also, how do I introduce my idea to potential investors without 'being fleeced'. I have thought about contacting cash machine manufactures, or possibly even banks themselves, who must be interested in reducing the cost of fraud and who could influence the manufacturers. Basically, at what point would i be safe to actually show the design to the right people?

Hope anyone can help.

Thanks,

Joseph

[SolsburyHill]

If its a patentable invention, then patent protection is the best option, however its relatively expensive compared to other forms of IP protection. Maybe phone a local patent attorney and they will give you some initial advice for free and detail costings - well most do an initial consultation for free. You can attempt to do itself yourself but is a minefield.

It would also be wise to sort out confidentiality agreements. The attached links may help:-

http://www.out-law.com/page-342

http://www.out-law.com/page-5699

http://www.out-law.com/page-377

Be careful about disclosure prior to any decision on whether you are going for a patent as it will affect whether you can get a patent and generally you should obtain specialist legal advice.

[innovator]

Joseph,

If you haven't done anything with your idea by now you could do a self filed patent application for in the region of 200 pounds.

They would give you a grace year if the application is acceptable to sell the idea to industry before the fees really start adding up.

The problem with this is that a takes anywhere upto a year and often people are told it is not patentable. A better approach is to commission a worldwide patent search by a professional patent researcher and the report will show all intellectual property around the idea. That could be done in as little as 3 or 4 weeks and show you whether to proceed with the idea. They cost around 500 pounds.

Innovate Design carries out patent searches: http://www.innovate-design.co.uk (http://www.innovate-design.co.uk/)

They also do a free info pack on how to patent an idea:
http://www.innovate-design.co.uk/mailcontact.asp

I hope that makes things clearer and hope I'm not too late but at least you'll know for next time!