advertisement e-mails with ''unsubscribe'', is it spam?

[nodar1978]

hello guys
cheap and best way to advertise my business (computer graphic) was to send an e-mails to the companies whose probably need my service. and clients i have at this moment i found by this way. but problem is that i received some replies with asking to remove them from a list, it's not a problem, it's normal answer, but some of them was even more, they say that this is against of low, and that they will do something against of me and this kind of stuff.
is it really so danger to send just a small e-mail with my service to people, maybe ones in 3 month? to the end of the mail there stands that they can unsubscribe the mail.
if it's really not good and danger way of advertisement, then could you please advice me better and bit cheap way to get in touch with potential clients?
thank you in advance

[OldWelshGuy]

There are no spam laws for business emails that appear on their websites. However there are laws to protect private email addresses and spam.

You should be using some proper software like constant contact that will offer people to unsubscribe as this is the law

"Corporations can still be approached 'cold' with email pitches but in these instances emails must have an opt-out clause."

[bdw]

send an e-mails to the companies whose probably need my service.

This is in your opinion but if you send unsolicited email to me I would class it as spam because that is what it is.

What you are doing is sending this out and by your own admission you don't know if you are doing this legally or not. Think about it.

[quikshop]

This is in your opinion but if you send unsolicited email to me I would class it as spam because that is what it is.

Agreed, I class anything unsolicited as spam and gets the delete treatment without reading it.

I'm just trying to think of any sort of cold marketing techniques that I wouldn't completely dismiss out of hand.

I actually think I'd react more favourably to a hand written letter than email, phone or even door knocking.

Something that appealed to me as a person rather than a cut and paste generic sh!te we usually get.

What business has the time to hand-write letters :|

[SST]

My email client filters out most of the spam emails I get, very little gets through and anything that does usually gets deleted without me even opening it. It doesnt annoy me per say, but I dont bother reading any of it, not withstanding a few promotional emails from companies I have previously done business with.

I just dont take any interest in anything unsolicited and what I would term spam.

[MartCactus]

This is in your opinion but if you send unsolicited email to me I would class it as spam because that is what it is.

What you are doing is sending this out and by your own admission you don't know if you are doing this legally or not. Think about it.

I'd agree.

I class any unsolicited mail from someone I don't know as spam. My email address isn't on our website so anyone who mails me directly (who I haven't previously dealt with) has bought a list, and that is spamming. Like pretty much anyone else on the web I never signed up to a list and agreed that it can be resold over and over to anyone else. Anyone approaching us with an unsolicted sales pitch would come via our web form.

The funny thing is that you'll find every one who sends mass unsolicited mails pitching their dubious products doesn't consider it spam - their definition of spam seems to be what other people do, or that its only spam if it is promoting pen1s pills and US mortgage deals.

Or course they are wrong - spamming is an act, and activity - whether its spam or not does not depend on what is being promoted. Its quite possible to promote pen1s pills by email without spamming, its just very rare that anyone does.

When you spam me you tell me that you're a slimy freeloader who likes other people to pay for his marketing. In short, you're telling me you're not the kind of person I would want to buy things from.

[nodar1978]

thank you guys for your replies

ok, it is spam. but then what is the difference if anybody call you and ask you if you are interested in some kind of service which you use normally.
I'm receiving lots of brochures and advertisement leaflets by post, also by mail, but i never asked to stop it, but in same time i have never asked them to send it to me.
is it possible to get problems if i will do it one more time?
because clients which i have all of them are coming from this kind of contact.
or if i'll send e-mail, which is starting with name of person or company, and not with ''dear Sir or Madam'', and to the end of letter i'll make ''unsubscribe'' then could it be a normal mail, or it is still spam?
thanks

[nodar1978]

what i mean here, in last thread, is that if mail is personal, and not without name, is it spam as well or it's OK then?

[bdw]

I get emails all the time with my first name on them. The guys who sell the lists to the spammers (some in here by the way) provide these in most cases. Using my name makes it even more offensive to me. It is spam and nothing else. There is no justification for bothering people with cr*p that is of no interest to them.

The stuff you receive by post is not spam it's junk mail, just as bad and more wastefull. The only difference is that it costs them postage to send this.

I have heard proposals for putting a charge of 2p or 5p or whatever on all emails and donating this to charity and do you know what? Provided it was controlled and done properly I'd be happy to agree to this. It would put a stop to just about all of the insidious stuff overnight.

[nodar1978]

I get emails all the time with my first name on them. The guys who sell the lists to the spammers (some in here by the way) provide these in most cases. Using my name makes it even more offensive to me. It is spam and nothing else. There is no justification for bothering people with cr*p that is of no interest to them.

The stuff you receive by post is not spam it's junk mail, just as bad and more wastefull. The only difference is that it costs them postage to send this.

I have heard proposals for putting a charge of 2p or 5p or whatever on all emails and donating this to charity and do you know what? Provided it was controlled and done properly I'd be happy to agree to this. It would put a stop to just about all of the insidious stuff overnight.

ok thanks
everything is clear, but anyway, I don't think that it is so much bad as you describe here, even when it is against of low. not because of i was going to do that.
But because of I'm receiving mails and posts some time, and i didn't find it so bad.
of course I'm receiving mails about v1agra and cialis and this kind of stupid mails, and they are really stupid for me, and annoying, and i delete them without opening. but when i have an e-mail for similar service which i do or i use, ones in 3 month for example, and not like every day or every week, as mails from v1agra, then i think it is ok, and even more, it is useful for me.
I have found company whose helping me now with my projects, and i found them from their mail, which i have received once long time ago.
I don't know how often you are getting those mails, but i'm getting business advertisement mails maybe once in 3 month, or once in month. and i think it's fine.
I hope you mean mails like v1iagra or something like that.
I undarstand what you all think about it, and thank you for your replies.
but above is my opinion, and all what i think about it. so you can keep discussion this thread if you like.
thanks again

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

I wouldn't take peoples opinions here as the opinion of the general market. There are many people who hate spam E-mails, but there are people who would buy from them if they were written correctly. Mind you, the response rate is inherently low.

Viagra E-mails are still sent out because there are still people who make millions of dollars from them.

[bdw]

I don't think that it is so much bad as you describe here, even when it is against of low.

Probably about half of the many emails we receive are insidious spam. A significant amount of these contain viruses. As a resuilt of this we have to install spam filters, ad blockers and anti virus software. All of these put an overhead on our PCs, slowing them down, making it necessary to monitor them and affecting our productivity.

We have notes and instructions on our website contact details page telling people what we will accept for link exchanges and how to handle this. We have more notes telling them that we do not outsource to companies in the third world and not to contact us about this. We have more notes telling them that we are not intrested in receiving emails about other services and that we are perfectly capable of finding these for ourselves.

These are all ignored by the spammers, who send their cr*p out indiscriminately and pay no attention to what we say on our websites. Believe me - that is bad!

Don't you think spammers would do better in trying to contact companies who may be interested in their services and doing a bit of homework first?

Do you do this?
.
.

[Block One]

Some recent market research on email marketing:

• 100 billion+ e-mail advertising messages sent 2008
• 200 billion+ predicted in 2009 *
• E-mail is the preferred form of communication for 26% of UK
surfers (down from 44% in 2004)
• Face to face up from 39% in 1999 to 55% today
• Spam accounts for 99% of all e-mails sent in USA

You should be aware of the legal position and these regs cover it i think!:

EU Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations (google it... I am not allowed to post links yet!!)
• US CAN-SPAM
• Privacy (including EU Privacy Directive)
• Distance Selling Regulations
• Data Protection Act

Where have you got your list from? is it an Opt in or opt out list? How well targeted is it?

How do you plan to send the emails out? I would advise not using your normal business mail address. You need to keep a track on bounces and spam complaints or you could find that all emails from you to a particular host (yahoo hotmail etc) will get automatically marked as Spam. A simple service like mail Chimp will allow you to do this.

[bdw]

How do you plan to send the emails out? I would advise not using your normal business mail address. You need to keep a track on bounces and spam complaints or you could find that all emails from you to a particular host (yahoo hotmail etc) will get automatically marked as Spam.

Ermmm, would that be because they are spam?

[Block One]

Ermmm, would that be because they are spam?

The original one may have been, but ALL your emails to that particular mail server may get marked as spam... so you may be sending an email to a person known to you who would like to receive it but your email ends up in the spam filter. It is a very common problem.... I must have to fish 3 or 4 emails out of my spam filter every day from people I know

[nodar1978]

How do you plan to send the emails out? I would advise not using your normal business mail address.

I don't pay for any list of e-mails and addresses.
i do search companies in internet, companies which need my service. in my country, not outside of country.
and then I'm sending very short mail with link of my web, so if they like to see my portfolio they can check it. and that's it, i did it maybe half hear ago, and one year ago, and not every month and every week

[ricardas]

Hi All,

I feel like I need to step into this conversation to clear up the facts.
I have been working in the email marketing industry for over 3 years and I guess some people in this forum would like to call me a spammer. Hope you will change your opinion after reading this post.

First of all what is SPAM email?
Legally - an unsolicited marketing message.
In the real life - an email message that is not relevant to the recipient. It does not matter if the recipient has subscribed to the newsletter or had a business transaction with the sender some time ago. If the message is not relevant to the recipient he will perceive it as SPAM. Fact!

I am not even going to discuss the "body enhancement" emails, as they are genuine SPAM emails (not unless you have actually purchased the product from the sender :) )

UK B2B Email Marketing and Law
Fact: It is legal to send a marketing message to businesses in the UK (or should I say "It is not covered by the law"), unless they have opted-out from receiving your emails.
Please note: Sole traders are not considered as businesses, therefore they have to be treated just like any other consumer (opt-in is a must).
However: Just like any other ethical business you have to follow email marketing best practices.
The very basic guidelines that I can give you (which you have to implement as a minimum):


Offer a valid and easy way to unsubscribe from further communications
State your company name, address, and contact details (that's a legal requirement)
Send targeted marketing messages. What is the point offering Cleaning Services in Bradford to the IT managers in London?

Also it is a good practice to add "Unsubscribe" buttons to the top of your emails. First of all, you will help the recipients that are not interested in the services and secondly you will reduce the complaints. Now some people might argue that this will significantly increase the unsubscribe rate, however what is the point having contacts on your database that are not interested in what you have got to offer anyway?

More information can be found here:
http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/privacy_and_electronic_communications/the_basics.aspx

I hope this helps.

Please feel free to ask me any other questions regarding email marketing best practices.

Kind Regards,

[ricardas]

How do you plan to send the emails out? I would advise not using your normal business mail address.

I don't pay for any list of e-mails and addresses.
i do search companies in internet, companies which need my service. in my country, not outside of country.
and then I'm sending very short mail with link of my web, so if they like to see my portfolio they can check it. and that's it, i did it maybe half hear ago, and one year ago, and not every month and every week

It does not matter how short or long your message is and how often do you send it. It all depends on the law that covers email marketing in your country.

[nodar1978]

It does not matter how short or long your message is and how often do you send it. It all depends on the law that covers email marketing in your country.

Thank you for your reply. I new that what I'm going to do, is not so much bad as some of the guys described here, because of they didn't make a difference between my mails and mails what they have in spams

[quikshop]

Hi All,

I feel like I need to step into this conversation to clear up the facts.
I have been working in the email marketing industry for over 3 years and I guess some people in this forum would like to call me a spammer. Hope you will change your opinion after reading this post.



I think you're getting confused between ethical business marketing and sending unsolicited spam sales emails to businesses that are indistinguishable from the run-of-the-mill gibberish spam.

At best, email marketing to businesses is a lazy, un-targeted percentage game without effort or care to consider the audience. Put simply, you do not need to be a skilled salesman to do it.

You come across as very naive or just utterly thoughtless, where the only unsolicited emails business owners get are from good honest hard working email marketing sorts like yourself working for honest upstanding legitimate businesses.

What makes you think that a business owner wants to sit there and analyse each of the 35 unsolicited emails he has in his in-tray just in case one of them is from you?

You talk about putting an opt out link at the top of emails although I'm not sure why, opt out links are used particularly by US businesses to verify that an email account is still active. That email address is then sold on or used by the same business to spam again.

The bottom line is what you do is irritate business owners and you do this without any skill or sales craft. You see your activity in the narrow vision of a 'legal sales mechanism' when in the real World what you actually do without care or consideration is cost businesses time and money to put systems in place to filter out all spam, including yours.

[bdw]

Hear Hear!

[ricardas]

I think you're getting confused between ethical business marketing and sending unsolicited spam sales emails to businesses that are indistinguishable from the run-of-the-mill gibberish spam.


Hi Dave, thank you very much for your criticism. It is always appreciated.

I am not rejecting the fact that spam existsts. In fact, I have provided a definition of spam and as a reply to the initial question given minimal guidelines on how to send email marketing messages ethically.

At best, email marketing to businesses is a lazy, un-targeted percentage game without effort or care to consider the audience. Put simply, you do not need to be a skilled salesman to do it.


I guess the problem is that some novice email marketers have the same perception as you and think that by sending more emails out they are likely to get a higher ROI.

The reality is, that blasting out loads of random emails to the people that are not interested in what you have to say is not only not cost effective, but can also be damaging to the business.

This is where the true science of email marketing comes in. Many books and whitepapers have been written that educate marketers on how to send emails properly, therefore I am not even going to start explaining it. However I can assure you that not a single email marketer on my network would refer to random email blasts, as a profitable marketing model.


You come across as very naive or just utterly thoughtless, where the only unsolicited emails business owners get are from good honest hard working email marketing sorts like yourself working for honest upstanding legitimate businesses.


I have stated the law and the facts for people to understand why are they receiving those emails. I have never said that they are only receiving emails from legitimate businesses.


You talk about putting an opt out link at the top of emails although I'm not sure why, opt out links are used particularly by US businesses to verify that an email account is still active. That email address is then sold on or used by the same business to spam again.


It is a legal requirement to offer the recipients a valid option to unsubscribe. Yes I agree that spammers use opt-out links to verify the accounts. However such practice goes against everything I have written in this post. Why would any business want to keep email addresses of those people that don't want to receive their emails? Even if we choose to ignore business ethical values there is no sence to do this from a commercial point of view.


The bottom line is what you do is irritate business owners and you do this without any skill or sales craft. You see your activity in the narrow vision of a 'legal sales mechanism' when in the real World what you actually do without care or consideration is cost businesses time and money to put systems in place to filter out all spam, including yours.


I am more than happy to share some links with you, where you can find out more about email marketing guidelines and how to do it ethically. I think it is very shallow of you to refer to me as working without "any skill or sales craft", only because I have chosen to step forward and provide members of this forum with guidelines for ethical email marketing.

However if you have received an email message from me that proves me wrong, please let me know and I will be more than happy to discuss it. Otherwise I don't see a reason why you would want to have a personal 'dig' at me.

Kind Regards,

[quikshop]

I am more than happy to share some links with you, where you can find out more about email marketing guidelines and how to do it ethically. I think it is very shallow of you to refer to me as working without "any skill or sales craft", only because I have chosen to step forward and provide members of this forum with guidelines for ethical email marketing.

For the sake of repeating myself:

"You see your activity in the narrow vision of a 'legal sales mechanism' when in the real World what you actually do without care or consideration is cost businesses time and money to put systems in place to filter out all spam, including yours."

You are missing the point, you can call it ethical blue cheese dancing if you want, to the vast majority of recipients it is unwanted spam - irritating, costly and time consuming to deal with.

[polyspiral]

As far as I know by law you have to put an unsubscribe button or it is spam.

[Pete Crane]

Hi All,

First of all what is SPAM email?
Legally - an unsolicited marketing message.
In the real life - an email message that is not relevant to the recipient. It does not matter if the recipient has subscribed to the newsletter or had a business transaction with the sender some time ago. If the message is not relevant to the recipient he will perceive it as SPAM. Fact!

Nope. Spam is email that the recipient did not ask to receive. Relevance is, erm, irrelevant.

[bdw]

If anyone sends me an email advertising their services it goes straight into the bin. I am perfectly capable of finding suppliers for the services I need. I don't need any help thank you.

Also, if all of these people who send out spam offer such great deals why do they have to spam people to advertise them? If their offers and services are that much better than anyone else's then they should be able to sell themselves without spamming people.

[Pete Crane]

As far as I know by law you have to put an unsubscribe button or it is spam.

See above. An email doesn't become spam due to an organisation not inserting mandatory links or details. It becomes spam when the recipient has not asked for the message to be sent to them.

Ricardas has paddled along the water's edge of ethical email marketing in previous posts. The sea bed of ethical email marketing is permission. If you don't have consent from an individual, don't send messages to them. Ignore this and you have failed at the first hurdle of best practice email marketing.

[ricardas]

For the sake of repeating myself:


I agree, it can be frustrating, however it is not going away anytime soon. In fact, statistics show that it will only increase. Therefore I can only suggest that companies that do consider email marketing - seek advice and follow best practices.

[ricardas]

As far as I know by law you have to put an unsubscribe button or it is spam.

Very true :)

[ricardas]

Nope. Spam is email that the recipient did not ask to receive. Relevance is, erm, irrelevant.

I have given two examples from a legal point of view and from a view of the recipient. It is a fact that sometimes recipients click on "report as spam" buttons when they are no longer interested in receiving a newsletter (that they subscribed to a year ago) purely because the "report" button is easier to use than the scrolling down to the bottom of the email to unsubscribe.

[ricardas]

If anyone sends me an email advertising their services it goes straight into the bin. I am perfectly capable of finding suppliers for the services I need. I don't need any help thank you.

Also, if all of these people who send out spam offer such great deals why do they have to spam people to advertise them? If their offers and services are that much better than anyone else's then they should be able to sell themselves without spamming people.

Believe me if there would be an Email Prefference Service (just like TPS) most legitimate email marketers would be glad to use it. Unfortunately the chances are that this list would be abused by spammers.

[ricardas]

See above. An email doesn't become spam due to an organisation not inserting mandatory links or details. It becomes spam when the recipient has not asked for the message to be sent to them.

Ricardas has paddled along the water's edge of ethical email marketing in previous posts. The sea bed of ethical email marketing is permission. If you don't have consent from an individual, don't send messages to them. Ignore this and you have failed at the first hurdle of best practice email marketing.

Very true, Pete.

The point that I am trying to get across is that it is legal to send B2B email marketing messages in UK to people that haven't given the consent (I am not trying to encourage this)

All I am saying is that companies will still send emails regardless of what the recipients think, therefore I rather see emails coming in that were created by using the guidelines (not hiding their real company name; contact details and providing an option to unsubscribe that works). Thats all.

[Pete Crane]

Very true :)

Ah, so a company that has obtained double opt-in from an individual and sends them an email that doesn't have an unsubscribe link it automatically classifies them as a spammer?

No it doesn't. It means they have failed to follow applicable legislative requirements - if they exist, which is not the case in many countries. They do however have documented proof of consent.

Ricardas, write out 100 times "If I do not have consent I am spamming".

[Pete Crane]

Very true, Pete.

The point that I am trying to get across is that it is legal to send B2B email marketing messages in UK to people that haven't given the consent (I am not trying to encourage this)

And this is where you are coming a cropper. It may be legal in the UK but that doesn't mean you can avoid being classed as a spammer. Spam is about consent, not content.

ESPs - including my company - have a very simple policy around permission and email; if you don't have it then you can't send it. Last year I had someone attempt this and had them bounced immediately off one of our send engines.

Spamhaus have for years had the simplest definition of spam, it remains the best and is here (http://www.spamhaus.org/definition.html) for anyone who cares to take a look.

You do also quite rightly say that you are not trying to encourage the practice.

[ricardas]

Ah, so a company that has obtained double opt-in from an individual and sends them an email that doesn't have an unsubscribe link it automatically classifies them as a spammer?

No it doesn't. It means they have failed to follow applicable legislative requirements - if they exist, which is not the case in many countries. They do however have documented proof of consent.

I have never said that this would be classified as spamming. If you read my posts carefully you will see that I have defined what is SPAM in legal terms and how the recipients perceive it.

With regards to the unsubscribe link, I have mentioned it as a guideline for email marketing and I also mentioned that it is a legal requirement in the UK.

[ricardas]

And this is where you are coming a cropper. It may be legal in the UK but that doesn't mean you can avoid being classed as a spammer. Spam is about consent, not content.

ESPs - including my company - have a very simple policy around permission and email; if you don't have it then you can't send it. Last year I had someone attempt this and had them bounced immediately off one of our send engines.

Spamhaus have for years had the simplest definition of spam, it remains the best and is here (http://www.spamhaus.org/definition.html) for anyone who cares to take a look.

You do also quite rightly say that you are not trying to encourage the practice.

I agree that B2B email marketing in the UK is a grey area. As you work for an ESP you should appreciate more than anyone else in this forum the fact that I am promoting email marketing best practices instead of agreing that companies should hide their true identity.

Are you coming to the TFM&A next month? I would be glad to catch up with you and have this debate with a cup of coffee :)

[Pete Crane]

I agree that B2B email marketing in the UK is a grey area. As you work for an ESP you should appreciate more than anyone else in this forum the fact that I am promoting email marketing best practices instead of agreing that companies should hide their true identity.

Are you coming to the TFM&A next month? I would be glad to catch up with you and have this debate with a cup of coffee :)

Just to correct you, I own the ESP not work for it. But you weren't to know that. ;)

The long, short, wide and deep of all this is that best practices start with permission. ESPs demand it* and ISPs will quickly ruin your sender reputation without it. Permission is also the bedrock of accurately identifying spam. So you'll see that, far from not appreciating your desire to promote best practices I have focused on this too. :)

As for the show next month I'm not as yet sure as I have pencilled in to be in New Zealand and Australia visiting clients down there. On that subject, I'd recommend you do some reading on email legislation in those two countries. New Zealand is similar, if more detailed than the UK, but Australia takes a particularly hard line with very clear, excellent law. If the dates don't clash then I will be more than glad to relieve you of several pounds for cup of full fat, 4-star coffee. :)

*only decent ones anyway

[ricardas]

Just to correct you, I own the ESP not work for it. But you weren't to know that. ;)


No I did not. Aplogise if that sounded patronising :)

Now that you mentioned it.. In two weeks time I will be launching a service targeted at the ESP's. Do you mind if I send you an email about this? Regardless of how ironic this may sound, I am actually being serious about it. :)

Sure, let me know if you are around. It would be a pleasure to spend a few pounds for a good debate about email marketing.

[Pete Crane]

No I did not. Aplogise if that sounded patronising :)

Now that you mentioned it.. In two weeks time I will be launching a service targeted at the ESP's. Do you mind if I send you an email about this? Regardless of how ironic this may sound, I am actually being serious about it. :)

Sure, let me know if you are around. It would be a pleasure to spend a few pounds for a good debate about email marketing.

Did you just ask for permission to send me an email? ;)

More than happy to receive a message, not a problem at all.

[ricardas]

Did you just ask for permission to send me an email? ;)

More than happy to receive a message, not a problem at all.

Good point.. I should have just scraped it of your website. Thanks ;)

[nodar1978]

Hello Guys
I'm bit surprised that my thread went so far in discussion :)
and i've got lots of useful info from here, and thank a lot for this.
I see here some guys are very angry from spammars ;) but what can you do, just install anti spammer, because it's very annoying i know, I'm receiving lot's of spams on my private mail box, and I'm just delete them, i can't do anything, because there is no their official address and any information about them. so i can't unsubscribe them, i just delete about 20 mail, without opening.
some guys here advice me to call to the companies by phone, instead of send them nice short mail with unsubscribe.
NOW MY QUESTION: what is the difference between call them and send them e-mail? Some time i've got a phone call from companies, about electricity, or mobile phone companies, and etc and i think it's much more annoying then send mail to me. especially when they call me and I'm not expecting this call, and they are non stop talking, this make my really creasy :mad: BUT, this is now days life and i have to accept it. I'm not argue to the telephone call people, i'm telling them nicely that I'm not interesting, and that's it.
buy the way, i had e-mails (UNSOLICITED E-MAILS) which gave me good profit:
1. i didn't spend time to search guies i needed.
2. they helped me to get quit good profit in my business
3. till now i have a contact with them and they are very kind and professional people.

I don't want to say this kind of nice works about me ;) but few time i sent mails like these years ago, some replied with NO, and some are still my clients, and we have very good business relationship.

So I think that here some guys are makeing very big problem from small things, which could be useful for some guys.
I'm writing again here : that i have just deleted about 20 spams from my own mail box

[nodar1978]

and one more thing:
guys who's saying here that unsolicited mails are terrible, and arguing about those people, I'm sure that those guys now have very good business, and they don't need to find new clients because they are quit old in business, and they have a lot's of clients for now. and successful business, well done. you worked hard i now.
but please tell me, what you did in a beginning? did all clients had a dream one night about your company? or you spent lots of money for advertisement in a beginning when you had no money to effort it? (I don't have so much), and i can't take a loan in bank, and i'm not from reach family, who can help me.
AND BUY THE WAY, i'm not going to send mails all my life, maybe few more time and it will be enough for me, because in this way i found about 10 potential client already, and they are coming back to me time by time. and if i'll do it again few more time, maybe quantity of my clients will be 20, and then it's enough, then i will have a client from my clients and etc
good luck everybody and thank you for all your replies, for critics and for helpful words, i'm new in this forum and i like it so much

[bdw]

but please tell me, what you did in a beginning?

I didn't spam anyone.

[nodar1978]

I didn't spam anyone.

thanks, me either.
but what you advice to starters now days, with small budget? it's very difficult now to reach new clients, when there are lots of internet advertising.
for example: i lost few of my very good clients, because of they found some guys in china, they are very cheap and so i'm out of business with them. if i work for same price, it means that i cant pay even bills i have to pay.
and it's not only me, they reach lots of companies in Europe, and so they are making low prices, and we, small companies are loosing clients, here in our country.
it's pity but it's reality.
so what you advice me, i start my company one and half year ago. and crisis starts last year, and i'm growing, but very slowly. are there any criteria which yo can advice me? in sales
buy the way i'm working in 3D architectural modeling, visualisation and animation. my clients are architects, interior designers, product and furniture designers. and companies who need animated advertisements.

thank you in advance

[sands1967]

if all of these people who send out spam offer such great deals why do they have to spam people to advertise them? If their offers and services are that much better than anyone else's then they should be able to sell themselves without spamming people.

Wow that belief pretty much blows out the basis for all forms of Marketing:eek:

It is a route to market. Like it or loathe it just the same as junk mail. People do it because it works. Dabs, easy jet and virgin wines are in my email this morning. I am sure if you shared your logic with them they would see the error of their ways..........

[bdw]

Dabs, easy jet and virgin wines

Yes, but I don't think they do spam. Don't you have to subscribe to them?

[TOMShop]

Yes, but I don't think they do spam. Don't you have to subscribe to them?

EasyJet you have to subscribe to, as far as I am aware.

Virgin send me emails via a 3rd party that I have subscribed to, these come to my personal email address, so they must have my permission, somehow, somewhere.

Dabs comes to business email address, have never subscribed, they seem to think I am the correct decision maker within the company.

[David White]

The laws in the UK are quite slack and you will get many different people saying different things but if you are openly blasting to hundreds of people with an unprofessional looking email which is not something they require then it is only a matter of time before your email is classed as spam which will be a major problem for you.

The main question would be where are you obtaining the email addresses from?

hello guys
cheap and best way to advertise my business (computer graphic) was to send an e-mails to the companies whose probably need my service. and clients i have at this moment i found by this way. but problem is that i received some replies with asking to remove them from a list, it's not a problem, it's normal answer, but some of them was even more, they say that this is against of low, and that they will do something against of me and this kind of stuff.
is it really so danger to send just a small e-mail with my service to people, maybe ones in 3 month? to the end of the mail there stands that they can unsubscribe the mail.
if it's really not good and danger way of advertisement, then could you please advice me better and bit cheap way to get in touch with potential clients?
thank you in advance

[sands1967]

Yes, but I don't think they do spam. Don't you have to subscribe to them?

Not necessarily. when you sign from a service from company A and you don't object to "our trusted third parties would love to send you info etc, etc" then your details are likely to be sold on and you will receive email from Company B.

Just like it has been for years, only now email marketing is an accepted route to market, just as letters, junk mail etc have been in the past

The bottom line is email marketing works.just as junk mail works, whether you like it or not. If if didn't companies wouldn't spend millions doing it.

The OP can buy in legitimate databases from specialist companies, often they will be able to show when the listed party 'opted in' or perhaps didn't 'opt out' That is why many people use separate email address for signing up for things, i only give out my yahoo account when a form insists i give email. I NEVER give out my business email, consequently i get very little spam. Just like I never give out my home phone number on forms. I get NO cold calls at home.

The big difference here is what you are describing as SPAM, just because you don't want it doesn't make it spam. (IMO) Spam to me is more the , "do you want a larger p3nis", "buy viagra" type of mail.

[scrivs]

If someone spams me. Then they have given me their email. So then I just email them back with my services and then just delete their email.

[bdw]

So then I just email them back with my services and then just delete their email.
And by doing this you have confirmed that your email address is a real one and possibly increased the chances of receiving more spam.