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Verity
7th December 2009, 08:53
I am hoping someone can help me.

This is the situation. My husband worked as a contractor. We have a company set up of which he and i are the only 2 directors. The company paid him a salary and me a token salary for secretarial work. The majority of company earnings was paid to us as directors.

A few years ago my husband had a long period of unemployment and we continued to pay ourselves although the company had no money coming in as we needed to pay mortgage etc and knew he would get another contract before tax vat etc became due.

This meant that every year we were in fact playing catch up. We always paid all that was due out of the following years earnings.

Then disaster struck, in January my husband had a stroke. At that point we owed 30k in corporation tax and will soon owe personal tax too on the last ended year and further corp tax.

We do not have pensions but instead have about 50k in tessas peps isa etc. Because of our savings we do not qualify for benefits apart from £80 a week esa We have a 110k mortgage .

This year we have struggled to live on as little as possible. My husband now gets mid rate dla and mobility and I get carers allownace for him which means our income is altogether about £200 a week.

We need to move to a bungalow but can't as on moving would have to pay back mortgage and would not have enough capital left.

Our daughter is at college but cant get ema as it is based on earnings in last tax year.

So things are dire. Revenue have been in the loop virtually from day one as I had to default on the agreed schedule of repayments. They have said for us to repay at £100 a month until my husband restarts work. At first I thought he would recover and restart work. Nearly a year has gone by now and this is looking less likely. He is older than me at 62 and in the current job market its looking bleak.

I lie awake worrying about all the money we owe. We will need to sell our house when we run out of money and need somewhere with no stairs anyway. Will we have to pay the revenue from the proceeds of the house.

Although we did pay salaries and dividends to ourselves while owing tax we had always done this and although in hindsight this was incredibly stupid at the time it was a way to keep our heads above water and then it just continued. We never had any intent to defraud.

I just wish this would all go away. Should i close down the company I don't really want to as my husband is hoping he will get back into work. Its the only thing driving him to get better.

HMRC are happy with £100 a month atm but when I asked them at what point they would want repayment they were non commital.

I worry that i will suddenly get a phone call saying they want the whole lot back.

bovine
7th December 2009, 09:20
Expert advice is probably called for, but the company is insolvent so I would expect the best thing to do is let hmrc wind it up and not pay anymore. If the dividends have been illegal, then hmrc could force some of that to be paid back, but im not sure in practice how often this actually happens - my understanding is rarely.

You will still be liable for any personal debt, but I suspect you could minimise your debt.

As i say, expert advice is probably required here.

Adam T
7th December 2009, 11:03
Hi Verity,

I do feel for you, it must be awful but you do need professional advice.

I am not qualified in this scenario but would imagine the HMRC would treat you as individuals and your business as 2 separate enitities.

I a presuming without your husband fully operational their is no residual value to the business ??

In terms of qualified, professional advice I could recommend someone but it would depend what part of the country you are in ??

All the best, I am sure once you know your options things will be marginally easier to deal with as you know where you are..



Adam

JohnGreer
7th December 2009, 11:27
Hi Verity,

I agree that you need to seek the assistance of an insolvency practitioner. I have a very good contact I can put you in touch with if you like?

In respect of the issues raised I think that closing the company down is probably the best option and this won't prevent your husband from starting work again in the future (either via a new company or as a sole trader)

The liquidation of the company should take the corporation tax debt with it, i.e. the company (or you) won't have to pay it. If you personally owe the company money (for example if you have taken dividends that you shouldn't have) in theory the liquidator could insist that you pay that money back into the company, however given your circumstances I would think that a liquidator would accept a compromise agreement (i.e you would only have to pay back part of the sum).

I can sympathise with your situation and can imagine how worrying it must be for you both - it probably feels that the situation is in control of you rather than the other way around.

As I said at the start, I think you do need to talk to an Insolvency Practitioner, and if you would like me to put you in touch with my contact, please let me know.

Best wishes

John

UKSBD
7th December 2009, 11:33
Can you just pay back the dividends you shouldn't have paid yourself?

Verity
7th December 2009, 13:49
Thank you for your replies.

I think as we always paid interim dividends prior to the end of the accounting year we would need to pay back the entire sum.UKSBD we do at the moment have enough savings to pay the dividends back into the company but this would leave us with not enough money to live on. We had considered doing this earlier this year and then trying to claim benefits but hoped my husband would recover.

We live in Wiltshire and I would be grateful for names of possible people to contact. Do you know if they would give broad initial advice for free or do you have to pay from the outset. I will enable my account to receive emails. Thanks once again for your help.

elainec100@cheapaccounting
7th December 2009, 14:07
give these a call:

http://www.taxaid.org.uk/

Dave Shaw
8th December 2009, 12:08
Verity

There seem to be 2 issues to address:

1. Company

It sounds as if the company is insolvent and therefore you should consider winding it up. This would deal with any liabilities it has.

In relation to the dividends taken out of the company if they were taken out without sufficient distributable reserves then you may be required to pay them back. As mentioned in a previous post it may be possible to agree a full and final settlement of this claim with a liquidator.

In relation the company's debts the liquidator would deal with these - if it relates to corporation tax then this suggests that the company was (probably) profitable and therefore the dividends issue may be smaller than you expect. Furthermore it may be possible for the claim from HMRC for corporation tax to be reduced by setting off the 'terminal losses' of the company. If you want to chat through the process, costs etc. of this (without any obligation) please PM me.

As mentioned in a previous post closing this company should not prevent your husband from working again - he will just have to do it as a sole trader or through a new company.

2. Personal position

It is unclear from your post what your personal position is but it sounds like you have enough savings to get you through to a time where your husband can start earning again. If debts are mounting up then consider using your savings as the interest rates on debt will be much higher than you receive. If the personal debt position is becoming unmanageable then there are people who can help budgeting and coming up with payment plans for creditors. Again if required I am happy to chat through your options.

I wish you and your husband all the best - as above please PM me if you want to have a chat.

David Shaw
totalitysolutions.com

elliotgreen
10th January 2010, 03:24
Certainly sounds like the company needs to be liquidated. You are at risk that some dividends need to be repaid. This will depend on the facts of the case.