Anyone want a ruthless website review?

[JustOneUK]

I love critiquing websites, its a hobby :wink:
I have a dozen sites myself of which 11.5 could do with a makeover. :D
So if anyone wants to hear about 1st impressions or colours/layout etc, drop a note on this thread

James

[Rob Holmes]

James - when someone offers me a critique of my site I instantly check their site.

On yours I found missing images on the homepage in firefox (I have a standard firefox setup in terms of image behaviour etc)

Have a look at how your site looks in my browser..

Somethings not right.

http://www.matrixxhosting.com/downloads/j1uk.jpg

That instantly put me off asking for a critique for obvious reasons and if it put me off it would put others off too (which is why I'l telling you) ;)

Rob

[creospace]

Sorry I'm pro Ruth so a review without just isn't the same :D

Gary

[JustOneUK]

:lol: :lol: that's not missing images at all, that's missing ads,

and it's to do with your firewall settings.

I am only guessing here..but you use norton? possibly norton 2004?



(also i get a thick black line at the top of your reseller page (in firefox)
which is not there in IE)

James

[JustOneUK]

Gary, Ruth just doesn't love you anymore...move on ! :)

[Rob Holmes]

:lol: :lol: that's not missing images at all, that's missing ads,

and it's to do with your firewall settings.

I am only guessing here..but you use norton? possibly norton 2004?



(also i get a thick black line at the top of your reseller page (in firefox)
which is not there in IE)

James

The images have appeared now - No settings adjusted on my system <smile> - I use Zonelabs Security but don't block ads.

Would you be kind enough to email me a screenie of the fault on my reseller page please? rob@matrixxhosting.com

Cheers :)

Rob

[Rob Holmes]

also i get a thick black line at the top of your reseller page (in firefox)
which is not there in IE)

Sorted now thanks - missed out a valign!

Rob

[JustOneUK]

The images have appeared now - No settings adjusted on my system <smile> - I use Zonelabs Security but don't block ads.


glad you sorted it, although you've destroyed my credability now :wink:

teehee 8)

Zonelabs shouldn't have blocked those, and if you are using norton just for antivirus, it shouldn't interfere

however, norton and firefox should both be banned!

anyone for a review? :shock:

[Rob Holmes]

you've destroyed my credability now

Naa :)

What sort of reviews are you thinking of anyway?

Rob

[JustOneUK]

only first impressions, and any basic issues (like the typo I have on my main site)

A web review category on the forum would be cool and definately an asset

yours looks fine now.

i just noticed on that jpeg you posted... your 'text sixe' setting is set one notch higher than default, or did you bump it up just to test?

[SillyJokes]

Ahh, go on then, I've been critical enough about everyone else's site, it's about time I got my come uppance.

http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk

[creospace]

Just one what other sites have you done, I’m just trying to get a gauge as to your experience that can be applied in reviewing sites?

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder so a review should cover technical aspects too not just how it looks.

Gary

[SillyJokes]

Creospace, anyone's opinion is useful because most people who use your site will be even less 'qualified' than JustOneUK.

I'm interested in his opinion, I might just ignore it, but there could be a startling insight.

I look forward to it.

[creospace]

Don't think I used the 'qualified' word!

I guess anyone can offer a critique but seeing as JustOne was extending an invitation and offering one on an official basis I wondered what experice he was basing his critiques on.

A fair question me thinks.

[SillyJokes]

"me thinks"

uuhhhrrrrrrh! [/shudders]

[JustOneUK]

I'm interested in his opinion, I might just ignore it, but there could be a startling insight.
I look forward to it.

looks ok to me :shock:

if i could change anything i would add mouseover styles to your hyperlinks. and probably redo the logo.

[JustOneUK]

creospace you have this line on your page in the footer..

©2005 Creospace | Text only version

you can't actually see it in IE

[creospace]

cheers, a mechanic never fixes his own car a!

FF blinkered sometimes. Although when IE7 is out it wont matter (hopefully(ME THINKS))

Gary

[SillyJokes]

Well, thanks for that in depth critique, I feel thoroughly savaged ;)

Mouse over styles, well this does happen in the menu and we felt the links were clear enough in the body of the pages. On some sites, links are not as clear as ours and require mouseover styles more.


....goes off to sulk about the logo

You cut me, JustOne, you cut me deep ;)

[creospace]

I think the silliy jokes logo is strong. But like I said thats the relativness of opinion.

Site maybe could do with better compliant coding at a glance.

Gary

[SillyJokes]

Did I ask you Creospace?

[creospace]

Silly jokes, please be mature & civilised, as you said you can choose to ignore an opinion.

Gary

[SillyJokes]

Relax, Gary, I am and I did. ;0

[JustOneUK]

Just one what other sites have you done, I’m just trying to get a gauge as to your experience that can be applied in reviewing sites?



These are just for fun. I did these about a month ago, they remain work in progress as i have not spent more than 2 hours on each :)
A Million Quid (http://www.amillionquid.com)
Cooking Recipes (http://www.justcook.co.uk)

and i did this a couple of weeks back for a friend,
he supplied the pics of course.
Washing machines (http://www.reztech.co.uk)

then there's my 2 week old Golf chat forum (http://www.ukgolfchat.com)
made from a phpbb script and tweaked style template which has taken 30minutes in total. :cry:

There's about 8 others but I am busy with JustOneUK (http://www.justoneuk.com) right now, as it needs a makeover before it gets too big.

James

[DeveloperBloke]

i like your style, very, ummm, eerrr, nineties

now, to be able to crtiticise your opinion must be backed up wth proving your ability, otherwise they are merely words. i dont like the top you are wearing, but what do you care, im not trinny and susanna.

i suggest you become a good designer yourself first, then you can criticise others and be taken seriously

heres my portfolio, critique away :-)

http://www.webgremlins.net/jlj

j

[meredith]

Yes please, I love a good critique....

www.mydesres.com

[JustOneUK]

i like your style, very, ummm, eerrr, nineties


damn, I was targeting the Eighties.

I am fortunate to make a living out of my sites, I do make a living building websites which means I can have some fun criticising them. One day I may learn how to program php or something...but then I would probably just download a script instead. 8)

I have received quite a lot by PM, you can keep them coming...

[DeveloperBloke]

good luck to you.

it would do you well to learn a programming language now that you ahve the basics of html

if you get good, you get lots of money

j

[DuaneJackson]

Go on then, hit me.

http://www.keyone.co.uk

and

http://info-x.co.uk

[JoyDivision]

PHP is a great language, I know ASP.NET and classic ASP as well but for most the sites I do PHP will win.

Classic ASP is nasty and ASP.NET is a bit complex for what most my clients will need.

PHP is very easy to learn yet its very very powerful. PHP is also easy to do badly though :) where as ASP.NET makes you stick to the rules.

[JustOneUK]

I do make a living building websites which means I can have some fun criticising them

:D LOLOLOL that was supposed to read ...I don't make a living building websites which means I can have some fun criticising them

oops.

[bwglaw]

Go on then, hit me.

http://www.keyone.co.uk

Your navigation menu not working very well on my MAC IE

[JustOneUK]

Yes please, I love a good critique....

www.mydesres.com

its nice and clean, i like it a lot. i can't see the need for the little images on the home page...wannadoo and all that, on the inner pages yes, homepage..no.
Also looking at your properties i cannot see when the advert was placed or when it expires so i don't know how relevent the information is, and there was no clue about how much it is to place a property for sale/lease with your site, if there is..i didn't see it.

James

[JustOneUK]

heres my portfolio, critique away :-)

http://www.webgremlins.net/jlj

j

one of the links on your site took me here.. i didn't try the others.
http://www.webgremlins.net/garagemanager/index.cfm :? ?
your cv page is a bit boring, almost as if you are not interested in what you have done.

James

[bwglaw]

JustOneUK

Give us your worse for http://www.handsonaccess.com !

[JustOneUK]

Go on then, hit me.

http://www.keyone.co.uk

and

http://info-x.co.uk

keyone, what can i say, beautiful site.. 8) there is a typo on one page i stopped checking there.
this line should read..

"will take your email address to any other content and convert them to unicode, "
will take your email address or any other content and convert them to unicode,

(but that's just finding a problem for the sake of it) :lol:

info-x another nice site, apparently i was wearing pink frilly underwear when i visited :oops:

happy days
James

[JustOneUK]

JustOneUK

Give us your worse for http://www.handsonaccess.com !

nice...do you really need that many keywords? you know google ignores them.
and considering what the site is about, shouldn't you have a text only version? if you have one, i didn't see an obvious link.

nice looking site though, and obviously works well on a Mac...
PS..what's a Mac? :wink:

[bwglaw]

nice...do you really need that many keywords? you know google ignores them.
and considering what the site is about, shouldn't you have a text only version? if you have one, i didn't see an obvious link.

nice looking site though, and obviously works well on a Mac...
PS..what's a Mac? :wink:

Text-only version, no, not required because of the way the site is written. It can be easily read by software used by visually-impaired to read sites i.e. JAWS

Keywords - need an SEO to work with us. Was quoted about £1000+ a while ago - could have got a new site for that price!

MAC is an overcoat! :P

[meredith]

Yes please, I love a good critique....

www.mydesres.com

its nice and clean, i like it a lot. i can't see the need for the little images on the home page...wannadoo and all that, on the inner pages yes, homepage..no.
Also looking at your properties i cannot see when the advert was placed or when it expires so i don't know how relevent the information is, and there was no clue about how much it is to place a property for sale/lease with your site, if there is..i didn't see it.

James
Thanks couple of good points there. Rather worried about not noticing how much it is to place an ad, I thought I had overkilled the fact that its free. Clearly not!! ** fires up vb.net and gets to work **

[JustOneUK]

:oops:

that would be the line

We will promote your property on some great sites like Propertyfinder, Yahoo, Wanadoo, Channel4/homes, UpMyStreet and Uknetguide at no cost to you! Find out why its free

I kind of read that as it's free for those bits ....after you pay, because i read it as "at no extra cost" implying that there was some initial charge...

If you know what i mean :shock: :oops: somehow my tiny brain inserted the word "extra".... just for the fun of it. Therefore I think you should have the word FREE on the homepage a bit bigger. :)

[Altoros]

Hi what you think about www.kenya.com?

[Admiral Collections]

I asked for a review and didn't get one :( :( sob sob!

[DeveloperBloke]

one of the links on your site took me here.. i didn't try the others.
http://www.webgremlins.net/garagemanager/index.cfm ?
your cv page is a bit boring, almost as if you are not interested in what you have done.

has served me very well in the past

its there to show what skills i have, not look pretty, i was actually asking what you had to say about my portfolio, not my cv site :D

the link which you clicked on is some new software i have written with BT and Autologic group.


hands on group, your site is very very nice

have a read of my seo post, its in it and internet, there are some good seo pointers there, you dotn need to pay someone to do it

nicthechick
you have lovely hair and nice eyes

j

j

[Admiral Collections]

Thanks for the compliment :oops:

But what do you think of my site?

Nic :wink:

[JustOneUK]

i am interested to know the domain value of Kenya.com, :D
the site is nice, i find the font a tad on the small side.

nic... i can't say anything about a site owned by a woman with a kosh, who knows how to use it. :? It's a nice site

[Admiral Collections]

You call that a ruthless review? Site - nice?

:lol:

Nic :wink:

[JustOneUK]

You call that a ruthless review? Site - nice?

:lol:

Nic :wink:

first impressions are important and it's a nice site... i didn't notice anything wrong or anything that i didnt like.

not 100% sure why you need to put 2 addresses on your homepage that are so far apart? London/Bolton. Surely at least one of those should be on your contact page?

James

[MarkPearson]

Go on do your worst www.rosesbydesign.com

[bwglaw]

first impressions are important and it's a nice site... i didn't notice anything wrong or anything that i didnt like.

not 100% sure why you need to put 2 addresses on your homepage that are so far apart? London/Bolton. Surely at least one of those should be on your contact page?

James

Thats because there is a legal requirement to publish the 'registered office address' on documents that you conduct business - the registered office can be can be anywhere i.e. accountant's, solicitors etc as the case may be with Nic

There is no legal requirement to put the registered office address on a website unless you are providing some kind of online service or operation that is fundamentally part of your business. In this respect websites are considered to be a form of advertising just like business cards.

[DarrenC]

:lol: causing havoc in here too James :D

Since when did you have to be a web designer or developer though to review or critique peoples sites? ':baffled:

Darren

[JustOneUK]

Thats because there is a legal requirement to publish the 'registered office address' on documents that you conduct business
Ok, so why put 2 on there? The other address can go on the contact page? (like i said, i am not 100% sure)

[JustOneUK]

Go on do your worst www.rosesbydesign.com
What, and have Anna harass me?
Some of the images are a bit grainy and don't do your product justice...and seeing as that is what makes them special..... :?


#runs for cover#

P.S Your aff banners are really nice.

[MarkPearson]

Anna does not bite! lol

Let me know which images you think look worst.

I have just had a photographer do a shoot on friday.

So will have some new images to replace with.

[JustOneUK]

on your homepage for example you have some pink roses..

1 Dozen Personalised Roses
(6 Embossed)
£33.00

I cannot even read what the text says on those.
looks like Surge 76 ? I thought the point of your product was the text... i think you should exploit that more in your images...closer & better quality pics. Everything in your showcase is too small and too grainy apart from the Harley Davidson ...the white Congratulations is really bad....ahhhh...Sweet 16 LOLOL

hope this helps.
James

[MarkPearson]

ok, yes

did you actually click to make the images larger in the gallery?

The gallery images are thumbnails that expand when scrolled over and clicked on.

All our product images when clicked on expand

To this level, which I hope you agree is a lot clearer?

http://www.rosesbydesign.com/proddetail.php?prod=91DozenPersonalisedRoses

[JustOneUK]

I did click to enlarge :)

[MarkPearson]

Thanks, have made a few changes, it is funny because I know the product like the back of my hand I kind of take that for granted!

A good lesson to be learnt by all.

Always get other peoples opinion, as to me I know what it says, but to customer its the first impression and maybe the only chance!

Hopefully I have made changes for the better

[bwglaw]

So much for a critique that JustOneUK missed a typo error in his review!

On contact page:

"I was swept off my feet with such a lovely suprise!"
C. Wickers - Suffolk, UK"

Noticed the typp error? Us British don't speak like that do we?!

Additionally, the site does not work very well with my MAC IE so your site could be restricted to those who have Win IE.

Worth having the site checked for accessibility since you are offering a service online, you therefore have a duty as a service provider to make your information accessible under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. Making your site accessible in most cases becomes friendly with search engines etc. so there are many business benefits.

Personally, I hate PHP. Prefer .asp .aspx

[JustOneUK]

So much for a critique that JustOneUK missed a typo error in his review!

On contact page:

"I was swept off my feet with such a lovely suprise!"
C. Wickers - Suffolk, UK"

Noticed the typp error? Us British don't speak like that do we?!

Additionally, the site does not work very well with my MAC IE so your site could be restricted to those who have Win IE.

Worth having the site checked for accessibility since you are offering a service online, you therefore have a duty as a service provider to make your information accessible under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. Making your site accessible in most cases becomes friendly with search engines etc. so there are many business benefits.

Personally, I hate PHP. Prefer .asp .aspx

that was a customer comment, and i can't help it if she can't spell :)

there is actually a typo on the homepage, but i am not doing a full proof read here, ....am I ? :wink: :wink:

the disability act, ..doesn't that just cover sites that HAVE to be accessible, like local councils and utilities?

[bwglaw]

that was a customer comment, and i can't help it if she can't spell :)

there is actually a typo on the homepage, but i am not doing a full proof read here, ....am I ? :wink: :wink:

the disability act, ..doesn't that just cover sites that HAVE to be accessible, like local councils and utilities?

Tried to find this post to reply. No, it does not 'just' apply to local councils and utilities. It applies to all 'service providers' who provide a service to the general public. Includes your website too!

[JustOneUK]

well that opens a whole new can of worms that i am not going anywhere near until every single channel on the TV puts subtitles for every single program, and microsoft/dreamweaver make wysiwyg editors that provide validating code.

off to watch Dragons .... 8)

[bwglaw]

well that opens a whole new can of worms that i am not going anywhere near until every single channel on the TV puts subtitles for every single program, and microsoft/dreamweaver make wysiwyg editors that provide validating code.

off to watch Dragons .... 8)

TV subtitles - comes under an entirely different piece of legislation and broadcasters have a deadline to meet, if I recall correctly, around 2012 - I think.

Microsoft/Dreamweaver etc - are deemed as manufacturers and are therefore exempted under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995.

Enjoy eating out of the can whilst watching Dragons Den. Wish I was in the UK to watch it!

[Admiral Collections]

Silly Jokes, your pic scares me!


Nic :wink:

[ngpe]

Give mine ago
new business so advice is welcome

www.neilgarner.co.uk

[JustOneUK]

RE: Enjoy eating out of the can whilst watching Dragons Den. Wish I was in the UK to watch it!

too bad it was great, oh my, there was a guy sweating so much i felt uneasy just looking. :?

i can't wait until the internet starts closing down, webdesigners will be 10 to the dozen by then, and cost 5% of current fees. If google can't be bothered to even add a doctype to their their site..{shrug}

[FE]

RE: Enjoy eating out of the can whilst watching Dragons Den. Wish I was in the UK to watch it!

too bad it was great, oh my, there was a guy sweating so much i felt uneasy just looking. :?

i can't wait until the internet starts closing down, webdesigners will be 10 to the dozen by then, and cost 5% of current fees. If google can't be bothered to even add a doctype to their their site..{shrug}

LOL yes saw him and he did not look well did he

Please can you have a look at mine and let me know

www.fleetefficiency.com

Thanks

FE

[JustOneUK]

Give mine ago
new business so advice is welcome

www.neilgarner.co.uk

In general I like the look of your site, it could do with having the navigation made a bit larger/clearer (1024x768 rez) and soften the look with some rounded corners.. Having the pictures at the sides looks great.

James

[FE]

Also should have said i did feel sorry for the guy who was sweating as he had some never if thats how he reacts in front of an audience to even turn up!

Anyway back onto the subject please let me know your comments with regards my site as a fresh pair of eyes is always useful

www.fleetefficiency.com

&

www.3-ways.co.uk

FE

[JustOneUK]

i would like to take a moment to add..

personally i do believe in access for all, and that websites should be designed with access for the physically challenged, however that is something that will have to be addressed in the future in a different thread.

I would not like to be taken as not caring about it, as my remarks may seem to imply, I certainly do care about it, and also care about getting more people onto the internet through making computers more accessible in general... however i would also prefer to make clean water and food accessible to the whole of mankind first if i could.

[FE]

Any news on my ruthless review?

FE

[JustOneUK]

Any news on my ruthless review?

FE

seeing as i listed it in Bromley (http://www.justoneuk.com/London/Bromley/Bromley.htm) under Business directory (http://www.justoneuk.com/London/Bromley/Bromley-business-Classifieds-listings-businesses.htm)
I think it's great ! :)

your fleet site needs to utilise the >title< tag on each of it's pages.

on your 3ways site a lot of the things that look like links...aren't links.
i think it needs better layout and organising, but it does look nice an clean.

[FE]

Any news on my ruthless review?

FE

seeing as i listed it in Bromley (http://www.justoneuk.com/London/Bromley/Bromley.htm) under Business directory (http://www.justoneuk.com/London/Bromley/Bromley-business-Classifieds-listings-businesses.htm)
I think it's great ! :)

on your 3ways site a lot of the things that look like links...aren't links.
i think it needs better layout and organising, but it does look nice an clean.

Yes the Fleet Efficiency is my main site the 3-ways is something that needs some work i agree. After purchasing some property in South Africa its a project that i started but never really needed (i know not many things turn to gold without much work) but thanks for having a look its appreciated

FE

[mr.steve]

You're all missing something crucial...

Anybody know what it is?

[FE]

You're all missing something crucial...

Anybody know what it is?

No please enlighten us

FE

[www.t6c.co.uk]

OK, please feel free to to try and find something wrong with mine

www.t6c.co.uk

I know it doesnt pass validation but I dont care, the error is pedantick at best.

And the font size is a "feature" not a fault... he he

[mr.steve]

You're all missing something crucial...

Anybody know what it is?

No please enlighten us

FE


None of you are looking at the websites from the
point of view of the customer.

To quote a famous ad man: "You have to make
the offer so compelling that the customer would
have to be a lunatic to turn it down."

It isn't that most of these websites don't have
a compelling offer. They don't even have
an offer at all.

And that's just for starters.

[DarrenC]

To be fair I think James who is doing most of the reviewing IS taking it from the point of view of the customer - this was mentioned earlier on in the post, as James isn't a web designer for a living he was giving reviews based on the visitor (and potential customer) aspect of the site.

[JustOneUK]

To be fair I think James who is doing most of the reviewing IS taking it from the point of view of the customer - this was mentioned earlier on in the post, as James isn't a web designer for a living he was giving reviews based on the visitor (and potential customer) aspect of the site.

absolutely Darren... i don't care if a site validates or not, it's what it looks like from a users point of view.

and if you want further proof that i am not a web designer... you can come and get a fuller review at my new website review forum (http://forum.softwaretakeaway.com) which i built last night :) Boost your website rankings with an extra free link, or two :)

[mr.steve]

You're getting colder...

The reviews are all about the way a site looks.

There's no mention of whether the offer makes
the customer want to buy now.

What is important to a web designer or someone
interested in web design is usually of no interest
whatsoever to the customer.

Customers buy because a product or service solves
a problem... makes their life better, easier, less
stressful...

You have to know what the customers needs are,
and then make a pitch to meet those needs.

You truly have to look at it from the customer's
point of view.

[FE]

You're all missing something crucial...

Anybody know what it is?

No please enlighten us

FE


None of you are looking at the websites from the
point of view of the customer.

To quote a famous ad man: "You have to make
the offer so compelling that the customer would
have to be a lunatic to turn it down."

It isn't that most of these websites don't have
a compelling offer. They don't even have
an offer at all.

And that's just for starters.

Mr Steve but then you assume that every website is for the primary purpose of selling a product.

I can only speak for myself but in my opinion that is what JustoneUK was doing which was view the site as a customer (i.e. independant). Is it pleaseing? does he understand it? what are the asthetics like? etc etc)

Now in terms of a compelling offer in my case that will never really be the case as the web site is more of a online brochure and information than it is selling a particular product.

You seem to have some strong views with regards websites so why not assist and critique some that have been presented and offer some actual value.

By all means start with mine www.fleetefficiency.com

FE

[mr.steve]

Mr Steve but then you assume that every website is for the primary purpose of selling a product.

I can only speak for myself but in my opinion that is what JustoneUK was doing which was view the site as a customer (i.e. independant). Is it pleaseing? does he understand it? what are the asthetics like? etc etc)

Now in terms of a compelling offer in my case that will never really be the case as the web site is more of a online brochure and information than it is selling a particular product.

You seem to have some strong views with regards websites so why not assist and critique some that have been presented and offer some actual value.

By all means start with mine www.fleetefficiency.com

FE


OK, I’ll do a quick (10-minute) review. I don’t know much about your industry, so I’m coming in blind. But this review could probably go for most of the sites that have been up for review so far…

First off, the point of any website is to either sell something or get the prospect so interested in the product or service that they contact the company and make an appointment to see a sales rep. If it doesn’t, the website is pointless. Imagine keeping a salesman who didn’t bring in any revenue. A website is no different. It should earn its keep.

The main thing is that there’s no strong sales pitch. Why give the prospect an online brochure when you could have a sales pitch there instead?

Next… the big problem is that there are a lot of buttons to get to the various bits of information. On the internet, it’s seven seconds to death. It’s been proved that if the prospect doesn’t find what he’s looking for in that time, he’s gone. The more buttons you have for people to click on, the more likely they’re going to click to another site…

So put everything that the prospect needs on one page. The only click he should make is to send a form to make a sales appointment or press a “Buy Now” button.

The home page is just an introduction to the company. There’s no mention of the customers’ problems at all. The most popular radio station in the world is WIIFM: What’s In It For Me. The customer doesn’t care about your company or your product. He just wants to know: can this company solve my problem?

There is no mention of how the customers’ problems can be solved, and no mention of how many other firms you’ve solved problems for.

There’s nothing to make the prospect understand how much better his life will be when his problems are gone.

I couldn’t find any guarantee. Without one, all the risk is on the customer and is a big block to someone buying.

There was nothing to really compel the customer to get in touch. And I couldn’t find any reason why a prospect should come to you rather than someone else.

Of course, web promotion may not be the most effective for your company. Print advertising or direct mail might do a better job. But all the points I made above about making a full sales pitch still apply.

[Coding Monkey]

Nicely said, but, in all respect to JustOneUk, by offering the advice of navigation etc, he is giving a marketing view. Most of your points come down to a copywriter, not a web designer and having an intricate knowledge of marketing is different than producing some graphics.

I agree with what you say, as it's how we have to view all projects, but many of his points lean toward what you're saying, just don't hammer it in.

[mr.steve]

I agree with what you say, as it's how we have to view all projects, but many of his points lean toward what you're saying, just don't hammer it in.

Well it is supposed to be a ruthless website review :twisted:

Actually FE's site has a lot of the elements needed to make a decent pitch, but they're just not brought together properly.

BTW, funny what you said about the marketing view... I would put my view as the marketing view: how to get more people to give you money. Because that's what it's all about... Marketing and copywriting are just two sides of the same coin 8)

[Coding Monkey]

Well, exactly. I speak to many copywriters on issues. And you're right: it is the pitch. Want to make more money? Choose us and you'll achieve that. But, what I was really trying to say was that it's not exactly the job of the designer to do this.

I leave my designers to it with all the information, let them come back to me with the mock-ups, then savage it until it does what it should. I can't really blame them for not producing the exact formula all the time. They design it to look great, load fast, navigate easily etc etc, but it's then my job to ensure it achieves the primary aims.

Anyway, yeah, if you want to destroy my website, feel free.

Coding Monkeys (http://codingmonkeys.biz). I was thinking of getting it redesigned in January.

[JustOneUK]

all valid points. :)

Actually the term should read 'non ruthless' (I think we all guessed that)

I didn't really want to come here and start pulling site designs apart, and i am not trying to canvas for webdesign work as i do not do that for a living.
A basic review of first impression look and feel is generally enough, along with navigation typos/wording and glaring mistakes. Add a little SEO eg titles and keywords... voila, enough to be getting on with.
If anyone really want their site pulled apart..feel free to ask, although i have moved my interest to my forum (http://forum.softwaretakeaway.com) now.

James

[Magsite]

Hi

Can you have a look at my new landing site

www.betterchances.co.uk I have built this to try and help search engine results.

The main site can be found by clicking on http://www.national-lottery-affiliate.co.uk which is the main lottery syndicate site which I'm an affiliate.

thanks

Lisa

[FE]

Mr Steve

Thank you for your comments and its funny but what you say is exactly what i wanted to create.

My site is more of a trade site and not there for selling but for information and a presence. To find my site you already know of the company as unfortunately the trade i work in do not simply search the net and offer you to tender you are already known.

Therefore as per many of my competitors the site is purley to have a presence. The scope of what i do is very segmented and why i wanted to create a seperate section for each as it is specialist.

If i was a broker then yes i would agree 100% with your comments with regards sell but when a customer actually gets to my site then we are in the tender process anyway where gurantees and scopes vary so much dependant on undewriters etc.

The site is also a gateway for customers to reach their own section dedicated to them for pricing and telematics (again why it is just a information site).

Thanks for your review as actually you have concluded exactly what i wanted to achive which is not a selling site (as hard as you may believe it)

Thanks again

FE

[tommy]

if anyone wants to be ruthless with my site then please do. www.carclick.co.uk

Thanks

Tom

[mr.steve]

Mr Steve

Thank you for your comments and its funny but what you say is exactly what i wanted to create.

My site is more of a trade site and not there for selling but for information and a presence. To find my site you already know of the company as unfortunately the trade i work in do not simply search the net and offer you to tender you are already known.

Therefore as per many of my competitors the site is purley to have a presence. The scope of what i do is very segmented and why i wanted to create a seperate section for each as it is specialist.

If i was a broker then yes i would agree 100% with your comments with regards sell but when a customer actually gets to my site then we are in the tender process anyway where gurantees and scopes vary so much dependant on undewriters etc.

The site is also a gateway for customers to reach their own section dedicated to them for pricing and telematics (again why it is just a information site).

Thanks for your review as actually you have concluded exactly what i wanted to achive which is not a selling site (as hard as you may believe it)

Thanks again

FE

Glad you found the comments interesting.

As I mentioned DM or print advertising is probably
a better bet for you. But these should still have a
full sales pitch and give the customer every reason to
chose you rather than someone else. I couldn't find that
on your website, so wondered if you were actually
using your marketing to full advantage.

As a marketer I'm only interested in doing things
which make money (except for posting on forums,
of course). So for me, having a presence on the web
which doesn't bring any return is a waste of money.

Have a profitable day!

[mr.steve]

Well, exactly. I speak to many copywriters on issues. And you're right: it is the pitch. Want to make more money? Choose us and you'll achieve that. But, what I was really trying to say was that it's not exactly the job of the designer to do this.

I leave my designers to it with all the information, let them come back to me with the mock-ups, then savage it until it does what it should. I can't really blame them for not producing the exact formula all the time. They design it to look great, load fast, navigate easily etc etc, but it's then my job to ensure it achieves the primary aims.

Anyway, yeah, if you want to destroy my website, feel free.

Coding Monkeys (http://codingmonkeys.biz). I was thinking of getting it redesigned in January.

Much the same as the FE site, though you do have a go
at giving a guarantee and telling the customers you care
about them.

As with all businesses, you have to think of the most
important thing from the prospect's point of view. What is
the main problem for my prospects? Then really go all out
to tell them you can solve that problem. Most websites really
don't sell the company very well because they don't have a
full sales message on there.

It might be worth it, just as a test, to have a home page
with a full sales message and see what happens to your
customer enquiry rate.

I know most of what I'm saying goes against received wisdom
for 99% of people, who think a site should just "look nice".

But then again, 99% of websites don't make any money or
bring in any business.

I'm rewriting my site at the moment. I'll put
it up here and then everybody can have a go at it. 8)

[JustOneUK]

I'm rewriting my site at the moment. I'll put
it up here and then everybody can have a go at it.

8) (http://forum.softwaretakeaway.com)
i think you are wrong, you are trying to apply something too broadly and forgetting that each site has its's own merits, you are also forgetting something MAJOR, but you also will have to guess what it is, good luck with your site when you get it up and running

James.

[mr.steve]

I'm rewriting my site at the moment. I'll put
it up here and then everybody can have a go at it.

8) (http://forum.softwaretakeaway.com)
i think you are wrong, you are trying to apply something too broadly and forgetting that each site has its's own merits, you are also forgetting something MAJOR, but you also will have to guess what it is, good luck with your site when you get it up and running

James.

I only see two types of websites.

Those that make money... :D

And those that don't. :cry:

Maybe this is the major thing...

But I won't be trying to guess too much.

[FE]

I'm rewriting my site at the moment. I'll put
it up here and then everybody can have a go at it.

8) (http://forum.softwaretakeaway.com)
i think you are wrong, you are trying to apply something too broadly and forgetting that each site has its's own merits, you are also forgetting something MAJOR, but you also will have to guess what it is, good luck with your site when you get it up and running

James.

I only see two types of websites.

Those that make money... :D

And those that don't. :cry:

Maybe this is the major thing...

But I won't be trying to guess too much.

I think you are 100% wrong and in fact but it is something i have come to expect from a marketing agency to be honest.

Some companys like my own have a prescence with regards a website but it is not an integral marketing tool. In fact it could never be as the projects / business we operate do not accomodate the web as the major marketing tool.

Now with regards your statement them my company is profitable so does that mean that my website makes money? becuase i have got no direct business that i can calculate from my web site (although i get a lot of hits) dioes that mean i am not earning money (as the bank say i am).

In my opinion you have some useful comments but are tunnel visioned with rgards retail websites and thats it as your comments are not accurate for some scenarios

FE

[Coding Monkey]

Much the same as the FE site, though you do have a go at giving a guarantee and telling the customers you care about them.

As with all businesses, you have to think of the most important thing from the prospect's point of view. What is the main problem for my prospects? Then really go all out to tell them you can solve that problem. Most websites really don't sell the company very well because they don't have a full sales message on there.

It might be worth it, just as a test, to have a home page with a full sales message and see what happens to your customer enquiry rate.

I know most of what I'm saying goes against received wisdom for 99% of people, who think a site should just "look nice".

But then again, 99% of websites don't make any money or bring in any business.

I'm rewriting my site at the moment. I'll put it up here and then everybody can have a go at it. 8)

Well, that content was added about 2 weeks ago. My contact rate has over doubled and I've had more several people contact me purely becaues they like the content and the style, so I guess it's achieved something and I'm in the 1%.

[Coding Monkey]

Also, FE, as I agree, wouldn't that mean Coca-Cola's website makes them no money? You can't buy anything from it, and there's certainly no awareness of its brand - you wouldn't go on it unless you were specifically looking for Coca Cola. The website is there for information, so I guess Coca Cola just wasted all that money. Silly fools.

[mr.steve]

I think you are 100% wrong and in fact but it is something i have come to expect from a marketing agency to be honest.

Some companys like my own have a prescence with regards a website but it is not an integral marketing tool. In fact it could never be as the projects / business we operate do not accomodate the web as the major marketing tool.

Now with regards your statement them my company is profitable so does that mean that my website makes money? becuase i have got no direct business that i can calculate from my web site (although i get a lot of hits) dioes that mean i am not earning money (as the bank say i am).

In my opinion you have some useful comments but are tunnel visioned with rgards retail websites and thats it as your comments are not accurate for some scenarios

FE

OK, probably time to wrap this up.

First, I'm not a marketing agency. People who
work for marketing agencies couldn't sell Girl
Guide cookies to their own gradmother.

Second, you say you can't calculate the amount of
business you get from your website, but you get a
lot of hits. That's instructive.

People come to your site and are obviously interested
in the service you offer. And yet you have no way of
knowing how many of them just leave your website
and never come back. If people are visiting your site
you have a ready-made list of highly-qualified prospects
for your service. Once they are there, get them so interested
in the service that they get on the phone and book an appointment.

If you don't agree, that's OK. But at least get some kind of
customer detail capture on your site, in a prominent place.
Those details could be an absolute goldmine of new business
and to not capitalize on them is a sheer waste.

I'm sure you are earning money. But wouldn't it be nice
to turn those website visitors into even more lovely cash?

The website reviews are over.

[mr.steve]

Also, FE, as I agree, wouldn't that mean Coca-Cola's website makes them no money? You can't buy anything from it, and there's certainly no awareness of its brand - you wouldn't go on it unless you were specifically looking for Coca Cola. The website is there for information, so I guess Coca Cola just wasted all that money. Silly fools.

Coca-Cola is a multinational company with decades
of branding behind it. Most other businesses are small-
to medium-sized. They don't have the luxury of just giving
information. They need to exploit every avenue to make
more sales.

[creospace]

There is a drink here called quass, it's nicknamed 'Latvian coke' and is a age old drink. When coka cola came here they made an assumption that their brand awareness could trample over everything.

When sales we're pitterful they suddenly realised it wasnt going to work and so released they're own version of quass, it now sells 3 times more then coke!

Not related to websites but shows how relying on brand awareness doesn't always work.

Gary

[mr.steve]

There is a drink here called quass, it's nicknamed 'Latvian coke' and is a age old drink. When coka cola came here they made an assumption that their brand awareness could trample over everything.

When sales we're pitterful they suddenly realised it wasnt going to work and so released they're own version of quass, it now sells 3 times more then coke!

Not related to websites but shows how relying on brand awareness doesn't always work.

Gary

Hee hee

Shows how even the big boys have to fall back
on old fashioned sales techniques... Take the
market from under a competitor's feet :wink:

[FE]

Mr Steve you are totally wrong as again you are in my opinion just looking at the site as if it were a retail site which it is not.

I can answer your question which is i have not and will not get sales from my site. The hits i get are because they have been issued the url by me and so we are already in discussions or they are a client.

My business dicatates that it is not a retail site as each project / client are significant in value (all >£2M) and the site is there for information to their staff ONLY.

Unfortunately Logistics directors who i target (remeber i said i am not a broker and wish to attract one off car or lorry buyers) do not search the net and say they look good as they have a gurantee i think i will offer them the £8M procurement of 45 tractor units with double deck trailers with the back of diagnostics and routing & scheduling. Whilst we are on this website lets make all our fleet staff redundant as we are going to outsource!

Wish it was but it is not and the market dictates that it will nto be for some time if ever.

So time to wrap this up as you say but Mr Steve as you give contructive critisicm out please take this on board bnot every website is a retail outlet some are there as information only or a gateway to further bespoke information. I could spen £1M on a super website but it will not attract the client i work with. it woudl however attract the wrong one as they are looking for a broker which i am not. Fleet Efficiency is not geared for these one off sales. yes i can do them but mainly to the HR department of existing clients as more of a loss leader to me.

With gurantees etc they are all there but are bespoke due to the custoemr requirements as not 2 are the same and so involves a lengthy legal discussion so not really worth putting anything up.

As you say lets wrap this up as i feel we are getting nowhere but please this may come as hard to accept but you are nto always right and on this occasion i was looking for a critique on how easy it was to read etc not how many sales it generates as if it did i would lose money HENCE why it is set out the way it is ia mNOT retail which is where i am guessing your experience is.

If that means i am wrong and do not know my business i will loose money but not yet my friend

FE

[mr.steve]

Hello FE

It's been an interesting discussion.

I'm sure there will be more.

I'm not a retail marketer. I'm a direct response
copywriter/marketer and I write both for retail
and the B2B market. Direct mail, print ads and
web promotions.

Have a profitable day

Mr S

[Rob Holmes]

but when a customer actually gets to my site then we are in the tender process anyway where gurantees and scopes vary so much dependant on undewriters etc.

The site is also a gateway for customers to reach their own section dedicated to them for pricing and telematics (again why it is just a information site).

Hi FE - Hope you don't mind me asking a question - you asked Mr Steve to review the site not me - (and I know the thread said ruthless - not relentless) - but somethings in the back of my mind...

You mentioned that the customer reaches your site somewhere in the tender process? Do you know what stage and why they are looking at your site mid-tender - is it because you've got info displayed there in a private area for them or that they are checking you out? Or another reason?

I'm just wondering because even if you know there would be no point starting your site with a sales pitch to an unknown person and walking them through to filling in a contact form - I was wondering what your potential customers were doing on your site?

Rob

[FE]

Matrix,

Sure the website is only used after the tender has been won really as it has no bearing on the solution agreed on.

Why do i have one? Well most of my clients are sizeable organisations and when announced what is happening with the fleet then it is somewhere for staff (effected and not effected about the proposed solution being embarked on) to read and see who is now working with them.

It also offers some basic guidelines to financing fleet (again so the staff can have an understanding) as well as a summary of what solutions can consist of. Obviously this is detailed and issued when implemented with usual meetings and documentation to all staff but it offers an insight at the beginning to some who may bot understand what their company are doing or who FE are.

lastly yes it is a gateway to log on (currently customers have a direct url logon) but this will be incorporated into a customer login page. when logged on then it is a duel brand (client and FE) which offers the diagnostic, tracking and R&S, pricing etc etc information dependant on solution)

So as you can see the website needs to be informative but segmented (as solutions are bespoked) but it is not a direct selling tool. Yes some staff whose company have purchased a solution require personal lease cars which i accomodate (hence the reason why some advertising is there) but that is something i HAVE to offer and not something i wish to push as not core or profitable business.

Hopefully this explains to Mr Steve as yes i agree 99% of sites are there for making money but mine is for a slightly different reason. YES i wish i could pay to be top of all search engines etc but the product / solutions i offer are not found in that way and do not have the vision they will be. Most are tenders but are done by reputation and in my many years never has anyone been invited due to a good website.

Also why no T&C's / gurantees etc etc

Anyway yes the company is profitable just think Mr Steves knowledge of my segment of the market place i am in is not one Mr Steve is conversant with and so obvioulsy in his opinion it is wrong hence the disagreement in approaches.

FE

[mr.steve]

I see now why I was confused.

The review thread is in the "Marketing and PR" section.

Therefore I assumed that the reviews should be about how
effective the site is at marketing the business: selling something
or generating highly-qualified sales leads to be followed up
by a second-tier sales process.

Now I understand that the FE website has no real marketing
function whatsoever.

[directmarketingadvice]

I only see two types of websites.

Those that make money...

And those that don't.

I would say thre are two types of website:

Those that move the prospect along the buying process ... and those that don't.

For example: a business may send out sales letters where the call to action is for the prospect to call them.

Now, a certain percentage of prospects will do that. However, there will also be a percentage who are interested but want to know more before making the call.

If the business has a website the prospect can check out and get more information/reasons to call, then that'll increase the response.

You might get:

x% letter -> call
y% letter -> check the website -> call
z% letter -> check the website -> nothing
100-x-y-z% letter -> nothing

Compared to:

w% letter -> call
100-w% letter -> nothing

If x+y > w, then the website is helping bring in money.

And, of course, that's just the front end. Once you've got cleints, the website is a point of contact which can assist in client retention and re-selling.

Steve

[Magsite]

Hi

Are we still reviewing websites here?

Would like mine reviewed when you have time (betterchances)

cheers Lisa

[mr.steve]

I think there must be someone on here
ready to have a go.

I think it might be an idea to say which
aspect of the site you want reviewed.

I can review it for copywriting content,
but I think most people just want a critique of how
the site looks.

By the way, what's your conversion rate?

[SillyJokes]

ooh, Mr steve, do my site.

[mr.steve]

OK, I'll have a quick root about...

But first a few questions.

How do you drive traffic to your site?

Do people arrive cold? (knowing nothing
about the service you offer) or do they arrive
hot (knowing everything about your offer) and
really ready to buy there and then?

What do you want people to do when they
get to the site?

What do people search for in order to find
your site?

What's the conversion rate at the moment?

Let me know and I'll take a look.

Mr S

PS
Some cool stuff on there...

[SillyJokes]

Well, I'm not answering all those on a public forum, but briefly, we are very well listed on google and if you need an item we stock, for instance stink bombs you come to us (we are no 2 for these google.com) and we have a 3 for 2 deal - who else would you bother even looking at?

People generally land on the product page or one very close to it for specific searches. For more generalised searches like Joke shop they land on the home page.

[mr.steve]

Didn't expect you to answer exactly.
Just a general idea.

But... here goes for a highly-professional
website review...

You're well-listed on Google for your products.

People generally find the product page for what
they want.

I'm presuming that your conversion rate is fine,
so you're making decent money.

There's only one thing to do.

Spend the godamm money and have a good time.

That's what it's all about.

(Or open another site and take even more of
the market. Or perhaps open seperate domains
for some of your products if you think that
would get you more exposure, as Ken Giddens
used to do.)

Mr S

[SillyJokes]

dagnabbit, I thought you were going to drop me a pearl of wisdom that would mean I could afford an extra gold encrusted swimming pool this year.

We have tried the last idea you gavebut to be honest it takes too much time to maintain a site to the standards we work at to do this. We just don't have enough staff.

[JustOneUK]

We have tried the last idea you gavebut to be honest it takes too much time to maintain a site to the standards we work at to do this. We just don't have enough staff.

i will set one up and you can dropship me your products :shock:

James

[Richard Conyard]

Well if they are still going I'd be interested either ours or our sister company http://www.redantdesign.com

[mr.steve]

OK, people still want website reviews.

This might be getting interesting.

So let's do some more website reviews.

But before we do, let's look at some basics of
the marketing process.

I'll get my fevered brain into gear and come back
with something for everyone in a day or two.

First I have to finish a package I'm writing for
a client.

Then we'll go for it. I'll let you into the secret
that is crucial for your success.

And not just for people with websites.

Let's learn how to feed that starving crowd.

Mr S

[SillyJokes]

Is it loaves and fishes, is it? is it?

[mr.steve]

Much better than that.