How many hours do you work?

[Hayles]

Just wondering how many hours you guys work on average each week?

Those of you who have been going for several years, please tell me it gets easier??!

Hayles

[MinuWeb]

started at 7am this morning, it's now 11.37pm here, starting again tomorrow at 7am.

It's alot easier than it was 3 years ago :D

[Argentice]

Start at 6.30 finish at about 11pm Usually have about 3 hours break throughout the day.

[Hayles]

Oh my god....!! :(

[Ozzy]

It does get easier, but that is only really when you get staff to delegate work to.

I started work this morning at 8am and got home at 4pm, am now just checking these forums whilst the wife watches some tatt on TV :)

I do have long days still, but that is usually down to attending networking breakfasts. However, I now have some great staff who take a lot of strain off of me which gives me more time to do strategic work and less time stressing.
This does come with time though, and I have in the past worked for 3 days and nights solid without sleep. I'll never forget that week from hell, and my previous average day was 7am till 11pm, but the hard work does pay off if you stick at it.

Being self employed isn't all about working less, its about being in charge of your destiny.

[Jayne]

I know that feeling Ozzy, lack of sleep :D

Today I was up at 5am and i'm still here, I do it through choice though, I love to be busy. I don't class the internet like the bakery, I could live on the internet and doesn't tire me out like the bakery.

Don't work Sundays if I don't want to, usually do though :lol: It's hard to give an exact figure in hours, i'd have to calculate how many pots of tea I had a day and knock that off. I don't give myself set hours, I don't like rules much. This is why I love being self employed :D

Jayne

[MarkPearson]

I have always worked 'flexi-time' when running my own businesses.

This does not mean short hours.

I would class myself as a workaholic!

But don't get me wrong, boy do I know how to party when I let my hair down.

I like the flexability of generally being able to do things when I want

Also being a bit of a night owl, tend to get stuck into my projects/task late evening / overnight till the early hours.

Don't know what it is but I always seem to have my best ideas in the evening...?

7 days a week here - but love it

[Rob Holmes]

I first check emails around 5.30am - 6am - sort any issues then breakfast and start properly at 8am - finishing between 4pm and midnight depending. But checking email at least every 30 mins if I'm not in the office.

In summer it's better and I like to throw a spontaneous bar-b-q and take the afternoon off :)

Rob

[Steve Roberts]

When I started out in business, I used to work 60-70 hours a week. As the company grew I put in place a very robust management structure. However, I ensure that over 100 KPI's (both financial and operational) are copiously measured - so I know how the company is performing in every dep't at any time (via a VPN). As such, this has enabled me to become entirely liberated from the business. Nowadays, I probably work 3 or 4 hours a week. The rest of the time I'm with my wife, kids, driving my sports cars, and planning holidays. It probably sounds arrogant I know, but it's because I've noticed one of the biggest barriers to growth are business owners who don't have the confidence to effectively delegate. Equally, one of the biggest barriers to selling a business (not that I plan to) is over-reliance on the owner.

[mumper]

I start at 8.30am and usually finish at 5.30pm. Then maybe do another 2 or 3 hours from 8pm if there is something that needs finishing in a hurry.

[Jayne]

I start at 8.30am and usually finish at 5.30pm. Then maybe do another 2 or 3 hours from 8pm if there is something that needs finishing in a hurry.


Except today, when it's 11.08pm :lol:

Bet you've been out in your sports car...lol (only kidding)

Jayne

[Cornish Steve]

For the last 16 months, I have worked from 8:30am to about 6:30pm on my day job and from 7:30pm until midnight on my own venture. Saturday (8am to midnight), Sunday (1pm to midnight), and holidays are also spent on my own venture. I do take occasional breaks to attend sports and school events with my children, and I help my wife with some errands whenever I can. The tough part is travel. For example, I've been travelling for four weeks straight (two of them internationally), and that really adds to the pressure.

It sounds terrible, but actually it's quite exciting. I have no illusions; I know it will take 2-3 years of hard work before this business is running profitably. In the long term, it will be worth it.

[duenna]

It depends with me. I usually start early and the day then blurs into one big work session. Then the night comes, a bit of family time and back to it.

When we started our care agency I worked 18 hours a day as I had to develop our computer systems. Now I have taken a step back from the care agency and concentrate on the computer business.

Like everyone else here, it's a different thing if its for yourself. Our ethic towards work is better than our employees. We should pride ourselves on that fact or indeed attempt to clone ourselves so we do not have to emply muppets.






N.B Muppet disclaimer. I actually do have some great staff!

[mumper]

Except today, when it's 11.08pm

Bet you've been out in your sports car...lol (only kidding)

Well spotted Jayne but I was working - I just popped in to UKBF to see what was happening - do its members ever sleep?

[Richard Conyard]

I'm actually a lot, lot better now and tend to do just under 50 hours a week. Late last year and earlier this year it was worse at @80 hours a week.

I guess what makes it worse is that all hours are done at the office and I'm TD not MD

[Jayne]

Except today, when it's 11.08pm

Bet you've been out in your sports car...lol (only kidding)

Well spotted Jayne but I was working - I just popped in to UKBF to see what was happening - do its members ever sleep?

My Tip...Have a lay down just for about 30 mins in the afternoon (but only cat nap), then you'll find you don't need as much sleep at night. Try it, it works. Then you can work longer. :D Saw this on TV, they called them power naps :lol:

Jayne

[multilingual]

Many people think that you become self employed to work less hours and have more money.

The reality is quite often the opposite, but like Ozzy said, it's not about the hours it's about being in control and enjoying what you do.

I have more motivation and more energy working 65 hours a week for myself than I used to have 15 years ago working 38 hours a week for someone else.

JB

[creospace]

I work whenever I have to and when I like. If its 6 am in the morning or 12pm at night. If the job needs long hours to get it done then thats what I do if it's worth it.

But I can go for beer when I like if someone rings or I take time out to chill or holiday when I like. I control the time I work and the time I play.

Gary

[DuaneJackson]

My hours are way down from what they were. Probably only about 8-10 hours a day now, sometimes less.

The core business (Web development and related services) is totally dependent on me being there. Fortunatley KashFlow (our product) generates money even if I'm not actively working on it.

It's very nice to check your email on a Sunday evening and find you've made close to £1k since leaving work on Friday.

I'm planning on changing the core business over the next 12-24 months so it's not dependent on me so much. I'd love to be in the position Steve is in.

I've been reading a book called E-Myth (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887307280/theinformat08-21/026-9190418-4481257) that has a lot to say on this process. I'll be posting another thread at some point to see if any of you guys have any expereince of implementing this kind of change.

[Steve Roberts]

I've always said to my managers that I will judge their management competence in how well their department runs when they're not there.

It's corny I know, but a good mananger will do themselves out of a job. As such, my job, as the business owner, is to ensure that my managers are secure enough in their positions to facilitate this.

[Cornish Steve]

Always the contrarian, I'm going to disagree with some of your comments, Steve.

As the company grew I put in place a very robust management structure.

This is essential; however, it's important to ensure that those managers understand and respect the company culture. For a growing company, that culture is instilled by the leadership. Over time, the culture must be codified.

However, I ensure that over 100 KPI's (both financial and operational) are copiously measured - so I know how the company is performing in every dep't at any time (via a VPN).

I agree that goals must be established and performance measured. While often overlooked, data is very important. Managers, however, must have the freedom to lead - and sometimes that means making mistakes. Too many rules can stifle creativity and genuine leadership.

As such, this has enabled me to become entirely liberated from the business. Nowadays, I probably work 3 or 4 hours a week. The rest of the time I'm with my wife, kids, driving my sports cars, and planning holidays.

For most aspiring executives, this is not a recipe for success. Instituting a capable management team can relieve us from the day-to-day web of company activities. We should take advantage of available time, however, to provide leadership:

- To further the company's purpose and mission statement.
- To promote initiatives consistent with the company's ideals.
- To understand market trends and needs and to anticipate the future.
- To understand and accommodate change.
- To inspire.

No one can provide effective leadership by working three or four hours a week (that's called retirement). Good management without effective leadership may last for a while, but it will never survive in the long term.

I am hardly one to talk when it comes to spending time with my wife and children. They are short-changed while I strive to get my business going, and I can rightfully be criticised for this. Over time, however, I am resolved that they will see more, not less, of me. Whether or not that's a good thing is admittedly an open question. :?

It probably sounds arrogant I know

Since you mention it, yes it does. :)

... it's because I've noticed one of the biggest barriers to growth are business owners who don't have the confidence to effectively delegate. Equally, one of the biggest barriers to selling a business (not that I plan to) is over-reliance on the owner.

Also overlooked is the importance of every single person in the company. It's the job of a leader to make everyone feel as if they belong, that they are valuable, and that their work is appreciated. That requires more than "3 or 4 hours a week". It requires a commitment to the company, to what it stands for, and to its people.

Spending three or four hours a week at work and spending excessive time driving sports cars and planning holidays sounds to me like braggadocio and is not something to which I personally aspire. Come thick or thin, I'm sticking to the stated purpose and ideals we established for our fledgling enterprise. But then again, I always was something of an oddball. :roll:

[Asteeleleith]

for me its getting worse.
I think i have become a workaholic.
I try to keep weekends free of course but it never works out.
to make matters worse my dear old mum wanted me to spend a week with her helping her out. Of course i nearly turned green at the suggestion, she has no computer or internet connection for me to run my business from.
Now i know i am being out of order.

So went down the road today, bought a Laptop, now i can work while still being around the wife, watcing TV and having a beer.
Not to mention the laptop comes with me.

But i think it is the same for most entrprenaurs. Come on admit it. Even if you could retire now, you would not want to. We all work extremely hard, and for many of us, including me. We would not have it any other way :-)

Al

[JoyDivision]

My hours are way down from what they were. Probably only about 8-10 hours a day now, sometimes less.

The core business (Web development and related services) is totally dependent on me being there. Fortunatley KashFlow (our product) generates money even if I'm not actively working on it.

It's very nice to check your email on a Sunday evening and find you've made close to £1k since leaving work on Friday.

I'm planning on changing the core business over the next 12-24 months so it's not dependent on me so much. I'd love to be in the position Steve is in.

I've been reading a book called E-Myth (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887307280/theinformat08-21/026-9190418-4481257) that has a lot to say on this process. I'll be posting another thread at some point to see if any of you guys have any expereince of implementing this kind of change.

Ha that is one of the reasons I am developing a CMS although I don't expect to sell anything like like that amount I hope to sell enough to break even if I have no web development work coming in.

With regard to working hours I am doing my business plan at the moment as I need to have it completed for tomorow in order to get this grant. I plan to work till about 6:30 today then watch a bit of TV and start work again at 10:00pm till about 12:30. Then after that I will read some modules on marketing.

I enjoy it though so it dosn't really feel like working. The idea of doing 9-5 scares me, I would be lost of I had no work to do out of office hours. At the same time I would love to be able to take a morning off if I needed, and to me that is why I want to be self employed. I thing in my first year my pay will be £10k but I don't care its enough for me to live off.

[Richard Conyard]

Ha that is one of the reasons I am developing a CMS although I don't expect to sell anything like like that amount I hope to sell enough to break even if I have no web development work coming in.

Best of luck, but the CMS market is tough. The trouble is on the small scale (i.e. one developer, 6 months of development), there are a number of open source solutions that are free and probably will have more features since there are multiple people working on them.

On the larger scale (5 man years of development+ ), these companies have the marketing and sales infrastructures to back them up so smaller operators don't really get a look in.

I unfortunately find myself in a middle bracket were I have a large scale system, the development resources to keep it current, but not the marketing and sales infrastructure to push it on to the level it should be.

Fortunately since we grew out of a web design company the majority of our sales come through that company where it goes head to head with the other CMS solutions and invariably wins hands down to we get our foot in the door that way.

[Toon]

I'm currently working around 60 hours over 7 days. Usually start around 9.15am and finish around 6pm. Have a half day on a Sunday.

[Richard Conyard]

The one thing I wonder is not about the hours, but how you split your time?

Mine goes something like this:
Mon - Fri
6:30 - 7:30 Gym
7:30 - 9:00 Planning at work, check e-mail (make sure I don't even have a computer at home anymore to stop myself), plan schedules for my guys, put together a plan of what I am up to the rest of the day
9:00 - 5:30 Managing rather than getting on with my own work to get the most out of my guys
5:30 - ??:?? Do my work (progamming etc), since there are no phones or people to manage
??:?? - 11:00 Gym or pub to wind down ready for the next day

Sat:
8:00 - 10:00 Gym + wake up
10:00 - ??:?? Catch up on my work for the week in peace and quiet

Sun:
9:00 - 11:00 Gym + wake up
11:00 - 3:00 Do filing, tidy desk, just light stuff to get everything ready for the next week.

So although I'm putting in a fair few hours I'm either working lightly, or I'm maximising the additional time I put in to get the most done.

[Steve Roberts]

Always the contrarian, I'm going to disagree with some of your comments, Steve.

As the company grew I put in place a very robust management structure.

This is essential; however, it's important to ensure that those managers understand and respect the company culture. For a growing company, that culture is instilled by the leadership. Over time, the culture must be codified.

However, I ensure that over 100 KPI's (both financial and operational) are copiously measured - so I know how the company is performing in every dep't at any time (via a VPN).

I agree that goals must be established and performance measured. While often overlooked, data is very important. Managers, however, must have the freedom to lead - and sometimes that means making mistakes. Too many rules can stifle creativity and genuine leadership.

As such, this has enabled me to become entirely liberated from the business. Nowadays, I probably work 3 or 4 hours a week. The rest of the time I'm with my wife, kids, driving my sports cars, and planning holidays.

For most aspiring executives, this is not a recipe for success. Instituting a capable management team can relieve us from the day-to-day web of company activities. We should take advantage of available time, however, to provide leadership:

- To further the company's purpose and mission statement.
- To promote initiatives consistent with the company's ideals.
- To understand market trends and needs and to anticipate the future.
- To understand and accommodate change.
- To inspire.

No one can provide effective leadership by working three or four hours a week (that's called retirement). Good management without effective leadership may last for a while, but it will never survive in the long term.

I am hardly one to talk when it comes to spending time with my wife and children. They are short-changed while I strive to get my business going, and I can rightfully be criticised for this. Over time, however, I am resolved that they will see more, not less, of me. Whether or not that's a good thing is admittedly an open question. :?

It probably sounds arrogant I know

Since you mention it, yes it does. :)

... it's because I've noticed one of the biggest barriers to growth are business owners who don't have the confidence to effectively delegate. Equally, one of the biggest barriers to selling a business (not that I plan to) is over-reliance on the owner.

Also overlooked is the importance of every single person in the company. It's the job of a leader to make everyone feel as if they belong, that they are valuable, and that their work is appreciated. That requires more than "3 or 4 hours a week". It requires a commitment to the company, to what it stands for, and to its people.

Spending three or four hours a week at work and spending excessive time driving sports cars and planning holidays sounds to me like braggadocio and is not something to which I personally aspire. Come thick or thin, I'm sticking to the stated purpose and ideals we established for our fledgling enterprise. But then again, I always was something of an oddball. :roll:

Thank you for your critique of my management choices, Steve! :D

Without spending too long answering each point, I would make the following comments:

What makes you think that my managers and staff don’t understand the company culture? This seems rather a large assumption on your part.

Each member of staff is given an in depth personnel review every six months, typically each review lasts up to one day. As such, I have very low staff turnover – circa 6%. What makes you think that people feel overlooked in my company?

What makes you think that rules and measuring KPI’s are the same? Again, it shows a lack of commercial understanding on your part, to be honest. The two are totally unrelated. For example in our sales department my attitude is something like: “guys we need to achieve X amount of enquiries per month, and convert 25% of these need to result in a meeting and 30% of these need to result in an offer”. Use your imagination and creativity to achieve this.” As such, people are given freedom (within budgets) to deliver results. Very often it’s the quiet, non-charismatic, staff who get the best results. By thoroughly measuring KPI’s these staff are constantly recognised for their performance. Those that don’t perform to the same standard are then mentored by those who are.

My staff are well paid and have a share in the profits of the company (12.5% divided evenly according to the hours they work and length of service), and we operate an open book policy. As such the staff are “profit motivated”.

The above reflects my personal choices. I’m not saying it’s appropriate for you, or anyone else, but it works for my family and I, particularly after spending many years burning the midnight oil.

[JoyDivision]

Thats pretty much what I was hoping for, the CMS I intend to develop does not exist, which is a huge gamble becuase it either means there is no demand or it means nobody has thought of it. If there is no demand I can use the basis of the CMS for other things so the development and research won't go to waste. I have easier things to bring money in for now though.

I think the majority of the work I will have to do in the first six months will be marketing. I am not going to let the tough market put me off though becuase otherwise nothing would get done.

Ha that is one of the reasons I am developing a CMS although I don't expect to sell anything like like that amount I hope to sell enough to break even if I have no web development work coming in.

Best of luck, but the CMS market is tough. The trouble is on the small scale (i.e. one developer, 6 months of development), there are a number of open source solutions that are free and probably will have more features since there are multiple people working on them.

On the larger scale (5 man years of development+ ), these companies have the marketing and sales infrastructures to back them up so smaller operators don't really get a look in.

I unfortunately find myself in a middle bracket were I have a large scale system, the development resources to keep it current, but not the marketing and sales infrastructure to push it on to the level it should be.

Fortunately since we grew out of a web design company the majority of our sales come through that company where it goes head to head with the other CMS solutions and invariably wins hands down to we get our foot in the door that way.

[Cornish Steve]

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail. In the end, I disagree with your original message on just one point.

No one, and I mean no one, can effectively lead a company by spending three to four hours a week at the task. This forum is populated by many people, including myself, who are looking to pursue their entrepreneurial dreams, whether by starting a new business or by growing an existing one. I think it's unfair to imply that we need to spend just three to four hours a week to lead a successful company. In fact, it's quite the opposite. To really get things going takes almost superhuman effort, and it takes just as much commitment to keep a company successful.

What makes you think that my managers and staff don’t understand the company culture? This seems rather a large assumption on your part.
I am making no assumption at all. If your company is well-established, maybe the corporate culture is sufficiently inculcated into the daily life of all employees. For small or growing companies however (the type overwhelmingly represented in this forum), it is the role of a leader to establish the culture by personal example. An absentee leader cannot do that.

What makes you think that people feel overlooked in my company?
Because, on your own admission, you spend such little time with them.

What makes you think that rules and measuring KPI’s are the same? Again, it shows a lack of commercial understanding on your part, to be honest. The two are totally unrelated.
I agree that they are different; however, they are related. Measuring too many KPIs can result in a work environment that feels constraining. The point I am making is that there must be a balance.

My staff are well paid and have a share in the profits of the company (12.5% divided evenly according to the hours they work and length of service), and we operate an open book policy. As such the staff are “profit motivated”.
That's good. We should not overlook the fact, however, that other factors affect employee attitudes at work. A shared mission and a sense of belonging are just as important as the profit motive. Of the companies for which I have worked, the lowest annual staff turnover (less than 1%) was at a company in which the leader knew everyone personally and was viewed almost as a beneficent patriarch. That requires a significant investment in time.

The above reflects my personal choices. I’m not saying it’s appropriate for you, or anyone else, but it works for my family and I, particularly after spending many years burning the midnight oil.
Most certainly, I do not mean to sound critical of your personal choices. To be a real leader, however, takes more than just a few hours a week.

Congratulations on having achieved such an obvious degree of success. It must certainly feel good to no longer have to burn the midnight oil. Right now, I am purchasing double quantities of that oil. :) Over time, however, I hope to achieve my goals just as you have achieved yours.

[JustOneUK]

LOL. It's 4.30 am on Sunday night/Monday morning.

The end of an 80 hour week.

..the next one begins in 2½ hours ;)

[creospace]

I have to ask how many of your left one rat race only to join another?

Make no mistake being self employed can be hard work but I made a promise that I waved goodbye to the corporate hoares of this world when I left employed work to go it alone.

Gary

[DuaneJackson]

Joy, have you not done any market research to find out if there is demand or not? That would be the sensible thing to do.


Richard, no time in your schedule allocated to catching up on UKBF postings? : )

[Richard Conyard]

That's part of the management time. Couldn't do it whilst in programming time.