Data cabling advice

[Ian Madeley]

My company is moving into a new lab/workshop which needs a structured cabling network of over 1,000 data points (we test and repair electronic equipment). We have an electrical contractor who is wiring up the new premises for power and lighting. We have sought quotations for the data work from them, and also from a specialist data infrastructure company. The electricians' quote is half the price of the specialists' quote.

Has anyone had experience of using electricians to install data infrastructure?

Should I chance using them and save money or should I pay more for specialists?

Anyone's experiences or advice would be welcome.

[Dwebs-Ltd]

My company is moving into a new lab/workshop which needs a structured cabling network of over 1,000 data points (we test and repair electronic equipment). We have an electrical contractor who is wiring up the new premises for power and lighting. We have sought quotations for the data work from them, and also from a specialist data infrastructure company. The electricians' quote is half the price of the specialists' quote.

Has anyone had experience of using electricians to install data infrastructure?

Should I chance using them and save money or should I pay more for specialists?

Anyone's experiences or advice would be welcome.

As long as they test the cables and label them up correctly I doubt you will have any problems. If they have quoted for it I would imagine they have the correct gear to do the job.

[saxondale]

we work on £20 per point - make sure the sparks runs the cables properly.

[KM-Tiger]

Tell the specialist company what the other quote is and see if they can improve theirs.

From what you say, the risk of that cabling not being done right is big.

[Comspec]

Sparks are excellent with trunking, probably the best.

They are not always the best with data cable, as the electrical cable they normally run is robust and they can be as hard on it as they like.

when we were cabling new builds in a past job, I would reckon that a third of the jobs done by sparks were not testing out properly.

On a large job like yours, it would be madness to have the cable runs badly done.... would take an age to fix.

Ensure the sparks have some experience doing large data cabling jobs, and definitely get a data cable specialist in to do the terminations....... definitely the terminations !!!

Let the sparks do the trunking, and ask for extra space in all conduits for addtl cables, plus ensure they put enough access/flanges into any dado-trunking (they are used to less actual cables, and sometimes leave access to main trunking runs a bit tight.

Also.... shop around for data cablers, for a job of this size, they'll start a bidding war :)

Good luck

[Judge_Joolz]

No problem with Sparkies doing data cabling. I know plenty who do it just fine!

If you let us know where you are based - I am sure you will get more offers!

Best regards


JJ

[Mystro]

Its like getting a plumber to do your electrics

Im sure hell do it, but will he do it right, i would ask him for a reference of other jobs he has done on that scale, as from expeience you dont really want to get it wrong .

And as said above as your cabling guys to requote and give them the quote from you electrician im sure youll come to a happy medium

Paul

[wykthorr]

If it's only laying down cables then I guess you're quite safe if you ask them to check all the cables before you accept the work (though it could be time consuming for you to sit with them while they're checking).

What you'd probably want from a data cabling company is a layout of the cables. A data cable can only be so long and well you don't want a single cable serving 100 data points because it'll simply not cope with the bandwidth load. Also make sure it's a data company that connects them together.

[Judge_Joolz]

Whoever gets the work should be able to provide you with the test results for each socket.

Best regards

JJ

[pcservicenetwork]

Before taking on our own staff to install data cable, we used to use an electrician (well 2 actually) and we never had any problems. As long as you only need a test for connectivity (tone generator or similar) then it is fine. If you want a comprehensive performance test then use a specialist, although I have come across very few businesses that do require this!

Dave

[pcservicenetwork]

Before taking on our own staff to install data cable, we used to use an electrician (well 2 actually) and we never had any problems. As long as you only need a test for connectivity (tone generator or similar) then it is fine. If you want a comprehensive performance test then use a specialist, although I have come across very few businesses that do require this!

Dave

[wickedmonkey]

I stumbled across this site and forum thread by accident and I felt so strongly about the topic that I signed up to this forum so I could share my thoughts.

We used to use a dedicated data cabling company at work who always did a fantastic job -- solid wiring, good sockets, excellent labelling. Due to budget constraints, we started using a firm who's main work is electrical cabling. They do a great job with electric work but about 1/3 of their data points don't work after they've installed them for various reasons such as poor quality CAT5 sockets and mis-wires. They say they test each socket and I've seen one of their testers, however, no matter how much they test, they still get it wrong and insist that everything's ok even though my fluke and the non-functioning PC plugged into the socket says otherwise.

Over the last few months, I have spent hours replacing and re-wiring data sockets and whole offices of staff have been unable to work because of this problem. I've also wasted plenty of time testing, re-testing and arguing with them! Not to mention the time I've taken re-labelling the sockets and patch panels because either they hadn't done it in the first place or because they duplicated numbers...

Now, you say you need 1000 data points, so I'm guessing that having a good, solid, reliable network infrastructure is pretty important to you. If it is, my advice is not to skrimp on data cabling but to pay extra for a dedicated company to do the work. They may charge more, but this is for a good reason!

DC.

[Bri]

I myself, a time served electrician, wired data points for our old offices we used to inhabit, I had no knowledge at the time of data connections and paid a data engineer to 2nd fix for me, it was well worth it.Electricians are more adept at cabling & trunking or concealing neatly than data boys(no offence, but its true), but electricians are heavy handed at terminating.

[djwellis]

OK.

Looking around, people have had bad experiences.... and people have had good experiences.

It all depends on the electrician you end up with - if they have had lots of experience with cabling for data - then they should be good.

As an IT engineer, I have been asked to re-design and re-cable offices in the past for people - after they have experienced odd problems.

I have found cables run along the same routes as mains leads, cables joined together with terminal blocks and cables tangled around the gas-pipe because they didn't have cable-ties handy. (all true... I'll give you a tour if you like).


I have looked through this thread and quoted three people - I think these points are very valuable.



On a large job like yours, it would be madness to have the cable runs badly done.... would take an age to fix.

Also.... shop around for data cablers, for a job of this size, they'll start a bidding war


data cabling companies would love to quote for your job of 1000 points - I know that moving an office of the scale of 1000 points will be taking up a lot of your time at the moment, so having one company do the lot seems an incredible convenience - but if you shop around, you can always find something better



Its like getting a plumber to do your electrics

Im sure hell do it, but will he do it right, i would ask him for a reference of other jobs he has done on that scale





Now, you say you need 1000 data points, so I'm guessing that having a good, solid, reliable network infrastructure is pretty important to you. If it is, my advice is not to skrimp on data cabling but to pay extra for a dedicated company to do the work. They may charge more, but this is for a good reason!


This one is very important - 1000 data points means at least 250 computers? (assuming 50/50 split on phones and computers with 50% utilisation).
If you have 250 computers then there will be 250 people that will be wasting a huge amount of money if they can't get their PC to work and can't bring in any money.



Good luck with your quoting, all I'd ask is that you make sure they design it properly and work with the IT people on it - if they are doing the job of 1000 points, then they can spare an afternoon to design it with your IT people at no extra cost!

[StructuredCablingWayne]

Hi Ian, i am part of a telecoms company based in manchester who offers structured cabling installations at competetive rates. All our installations are carried out by accredited engineers and are tested using Fluke Testers which give in depth results on each individual data point. We also offer Telephone sytem installation and maintainance services for Avaya, Panasonic and NEC.

Let me know if you need a quote for any.

Wayne

[andy@telecomhelpcouk]

It comes down to 'You pays yer money...' As a Structured cabling Engineer I've installed Telco high end performing jobs, as well as losing loads of business unable to compete with Sparky installs. If the building is in bits I can see the logic in one firm doing all the cable, however if you want 100% performance for years, I'd check how knowledgeable the installer is. Here are some pointers;

1. Cat 5/6 is only a recommendation, there are loads of rubbish brands out there - look at the plates before install. Modules need to be robust, cheap modular ones fall apart, shutters detach, PCBs crack, etc.
2. Proper planning needs to be done with no cable being joined or the length from equipment to equipment being max 90m
3. Cabling must not be kinked or run parallel to power
4. Your own networking needs must be ascertained as 1000 points will need an element of design.
5. Take full bandwidth testing (Scope, etc) with a pinch of salt. Expensive tests can be tweaked to show any result.

Hope this helps Andy

[TelTra]

Hi,
I have used electricians in the past on some of our data jobs but wouldn't entrust 1000 points to them. What you need is a professional skilled workforce who will get in and out with the job done first time and tested to the correct standards with the correct equipment.

As the saying goes 'You get what you pay for'

If you still need an vastly overpriced quote give me a call!

Thanks

[CPLTD]

My company is moving into a new lab/workshop which needs a structured cabling network of over 1,000 data points (we test and repair electronic equipment). We have an electrical contractor who is wiring up the new premises for power and lighting. We have sought quotations for the data work from them, and also from a specialist data infrastructure company. The electricians' quote is half the price of the specialists' quote.

Has anyone had experience of using electricians to install data infrastructure?

Should I chance using them and save money or should I pay more for specialists?

Anyone's experiences or advice would be welcome.


Hi Ian,

As a wired and wireless communications specialist who performs cable installations all over the UK we would love the opportunity to offer you a competitive comparison quotation,
Be sure to pm me your details and I will have one of our infrastructure specialists to contact you straight away to discuss your requirements further.:cool: