I need to rant!!!

[Hayles]

We've just got back all our books and accounts from a book keeper who was recommended to us by our accountant when we started up several years ago....

The invoices, bank statements, etc. have come back to us in several CARRIER BAGS!! (Not even matching ones...).

I noticed on the cash account in Sage that we have a deficit of £5k showing and asked what this meant. Apparently we've spent £5k in cash more than we've received....(since April) WE DON'T BUY ANYTHING IN CASH!! She can't offer any explanation. Also, she's not sure if some of the invoices I pointed out have been included....

There are lots of other queries and strange things showing. What an absolute mess.

Moral of this story to anyone starting out is really, really, really keep an eye on your accounts. I know it's our fault for not doing so in the past but, with two young businesses, we've concentrated on front of house issues and just trusted that our accounts were being sorted correctly. We thought we'd be advised by the accountant if there were any issues showing but this really hasn't happened. (For example, we've been transferring money from our Ltd company to our partnership business for nearly two years - which is a big no no apparently....).

If you are just starting out, find an accountant who'll stay in touch and will provide you with regular info. (Don't just think that because they're a big, well known company you'll get a good service.) With hindsight this sounds like common sense. Damn, we've been so stupid!

Our accountant was really nice, our book keeper was really nice.... not much comfort now though.

With my positive thinking cap on, we've got to look to the future.
The businesses are doing fine (don't know how fine though as we don't trust the accounts), and we've taken steps to ensure things change by having a new accountant come in fortnightly and then provide us with regular reports.

Rant over.

Sorry for shouting.

Hayles

oh - and the Sage package we bought from the accountants (cost : £700) as recommended by them, isn't the one we should have got as it doesn't have the feature ie. quotations, that we need. Argghhh.

[multilingual]

I had a simliar incident about 12 years ago. The book-keeping was putting through self billing invoices as sales invoices and re-claiming VAT that we should have been paying back!

Cash flow was brilliant for 6 months until we realized what was going on. Then we had to pay back 16K to customs. Ouch. :shock:

We live and learn.

JB

[Hayles]

Oh my god!

Now I'm very scared.

Hayles (the stupid, stupid, stupid one)

[Ozzy]

That is not acceptable, and I would seriously question and not pay for work that causes your business such problems.

There are some good book keepers about, I use one, and you should look around yourself. Get references.

[Hayles]

We're considering not paying our last invoice from the accountants but will wait and see what they say regarding the accounting package they sold us which now seems to be the wrong one.

But also, I've written and asked verbally for them to change our registered office with Companies House which we don't think has happened (just received a letter from Companies House at home address, no copy sent to business address). Can we get in trouble for not advising of the change (2 and half years ago)? Should we just do it ourselves?

Thanks

Hayles

[Ozzy]

Its very simple to change the registered office yourself, and its free.
You can either download the form 287 from their website, fill it in and send it in, or if you get your company's Document Authentication Code you can file the form 287 electronically either on the Companies House website or other E-filing websites such as mine...again free of charge in both instants.

You can get your document authentication code from either the company that registered your company for you, or by contacting Companies House on 0870 333 3636.

[Hayles]

Thank you very much, will have a look now. The accountant formed the company for us so won't go that route.

Hayles

[fastfences]

Excellent post! It's alerted me to the fact that I must do something about the 17 Tesco bags of invoices and receipts I've stashed up in the loft!! :lol: :lol:
Cheers, Nigel

[clairemackaness]

Oh Hayles, you poor thing. I cant offer any advice really as I'm sooo tiny I do my own books and dont have any money to spend so theres not much outgoings. Those that there are seem to come out of my own pocket!

I think you should seriously lookk into doing something about this comapny though, it looks as though you have been right royally ripped off and it will no doubt cost you even more to get it all into shape. Cant you sue, or report them to watchdog or something.

I would start by sending them a letter, explaining why you are unhappy and asking for a full refund of all costs. cc the letter to the office of fairtrading and watchdog. You dont have to send the cc's but they wont know that!

[Hayles]

They're a well known (well, locally), large accountancy firm and I think they'll turn round and say the book keeper has produced the books based on the info we've given. That may or may not be true and we'll have to spend money checking the accounts to find out. However, if we have somehow given the wrong info (or the info we've given has been misunderstood by the book keeper), I can't help feeling that we're very small fry to them and they're more interested in their big clients so tough luck to us.

Strange thing is, the accountant is so nice and I'll feel terrible telling him how cheesed off we are!! How daft is that!

Hayles

[multilingual]

Very daft to be honest.

Tell him straight and get it sorted.

You have to look after yourself, because no-one else seems to be doing it!

:?

JB

[Hayles]

Perhaps I'll get my mum/son/daughter/husband or nan to do it...!! :D

[Rachel1980]

Hi Hayles,

It's terrible what has happened to you. I can't offer any advice just a little sympathy and I hope you get it all sorted out.

Regards,

Rachel

[Steve Roberts]

It's interesting. In my experience, book-keepers either seem to be really good or really bad! I think I know what you've got. I wouldn't bother getting him to correct the problem - because he's a bad book-keeper! Even if he does more work for you, deep down you'll be suspicious of the figures. As such, I'd sack him and employ another one immediately.

Very often, many aspects of running a business is "urgent". However, don't let the urgent take priority over the important. How a company is performing financially is by far the most important thing - bar none. Accordingly, you need to have complete confidence in the person doing the numbers.

[BMS]

It's a shame that one bad book-keeper seems to ruin it for 10 good book-keepers.

In small business your book-keeper should be treated as your friend and should be available to you 24/7 (well almost) and if you have any questions be happy to help.

All of my clients have my mobile number and are told that if they have a query to call me, even at weekends, in fact I have even processed wages for one client on a Sunday morning as they were going on holiday and wanted to sort it out before they went.

Please,please do not write off all book-keepers, there are good ones out there who are willing to help you run your business.

I'd be happy to talk to anyone who has a problem and wants to sort out their accounts.

[Asteeleleith]

This is worrying,

I have left it all to my accountant to do, made relvant enquires as to what is expected of me as a director and asked what should be done.
Then confirmed that the accnountant intends to do it.

Can i advise all here that the revenue and excise offers free courses to business people on tax etc.

In fact i might even go on a refesher myself. Even have books on book keeping to read.
I have made sod all cash as yes, hence i have not kept many accounts. Mainly what i have been spending. Claim back the VAT on that

Al

[Joyous]

Hi Hayles

Sorry to hear that you've had such bad luck with your bookkeeping. When you signed up with your accountant he should have provided you with an engagement letter that lays out exactly what he is to do for you and also what your responsibilities are. It's worth checking it to see who is responsible for the bookkeeping.

Even if he's not responsible for it I'd still expect him to do spot checks to ensure there are no glaring errors. If you're not happy you should definately complain to the firm about it. Again your engagement letter should provide the name of someone for you to speak to about this. Forget about your accountant being so nice - that's not what your paying him for.

If you still can't get any satisfaction then threaten to go to their association. The ACCA and the ICAEW websites both have details of how to complain.

[Hayles]

Thank you for the advice - have never seen a Terms of Engagement letter, which I think would have been a big help.

No doubt we need to take some blame for the situation - we were far too trusting and when we thought things weren't right last year we should have acted. (We asked our book keeper what our drink sales and drink purchases were for the previous three months but she said she couldn't give us those figures because of how the accounts were set up. Something to do with the date of the invoice being different to the date we actually paid the invoice.) As the accountant had recommended the book kepper, we simply got on with other things!

So, at the moment we're putting it all down to experience. We have asked for an explanation as to why we've spent £700 on a Sage accounts package that's not right for us and will hopefully speak to them next week.

H