Sales copy advice good or bad?

[da8iwr]

I have a client, who is wanting a website producing, and her marketing "specialist" said that this is the type of format the website copy should be...
http://tinyurl.com/m892vv

I have used a tinyurl, as i don't want any SEO advantage to this, no other reason.

I have told my client i will post this so she can see the responses, as i want to show what other peoples opinions are about this.

Please leave your feedback on it

Many thanks
Ian

[directmarketingadvice]

I have a client, who is wanting a website producing, and her marketing "specialist" said that this is the type of format the website copy should be...
http://tinyurl.com/m892vv

Depends on what you're selling, who you're selling to and how you're driving them to the site.

Steve

[OldWelshGuy]

That is a classic single squeeze page that is aimed at converting traffic on one page .

As stated above, depends on what they are selling and to whom.

[Cartoon Logos]

I have a client, who is wanting a website producing, and her marketing "specialist" said that this is the type of format the website copy should be...
http://tinyurl.com/m892vv

I have used a tinyurl, as i don't want any SEO advantage to this, no other reason.

I have told my client i will post this so she can see the responses, as i want to show what other peoples opinions are about this.

Please leave your feedback on it

Many thanks
Ian

This is generally how direct response marketers (mainly in the USA as far as I can tell) sell digital products, ie eBooks and online courses etc.

They generally sell ONE product as oppose to lots.

Some copywriters charge thousands for writing sales letters like this, which is essentially what this is, a VERY long sales letter.

It's not a format I favour but if it works and it sells who am I to argue.

What is your client selling?

Leah

ps. Here is a site that promotes lots of digital products and you will note they ALL (pretty much) have ads like this.

http://www.clickbank.com/marketplace.htm

[The Pines]

The format is proven successful. It seems to follow the format adopted by Agora, the financial publisher in the USA.

Usual suspects...

The disillusioned trader/banker
The promise of inside secrets
Easy payment plan
Promise of easy riches


As has been mentioned, the success of these sites come not primarily from the copy or the layout, but from the list, and how you're driving said list to the site. That's the most crucial element.

Agora have got this down to a fine art. They could probably sell Bernie Madoff's Investment Secrets for 3 payments of $999. Their prospects are always looking for new ways to beat the market. And they are totally irrational...

[Cartoon Logos]

That is a classic single squeeze page that is aimed at converting traffic on one page .

As stated above, depends on what they are selling and to whom.

Nope, not a squeeze page

Squeeze pages are generally shorter and designed to collect email addresses, though they do LOOK like this.

See here for more details

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeeze_page


"Squeeze Page(s)" are a single web page with the sole purpose of capturing information for follow-up marketing; that means NO exit hyperlinks. Quality squeeze pages use success stories that the prospect would relate to when making a buying decision. They also use things like color psychology, catchy sales copy and keyword rich text placed with SEO (search engine optimization) in mind.


Some advanced marketers even use audio and video on their squeeze page.
Internet marketers borrow copywriting techniques from offline direct response marketing. This includes the use of a headline, bullets, teaser copy, deadlines, testimonials, scarcity, and the like. Aggressive marketers will present visitors with multiple incentives in exchange for their contact information.

As a general rule, Internet Marketers try to keep the content on their Squeeze Pages to a minimum. The goal of the page is to obtain the visitor's email address; additional information could distract the user or cause them to "Click-Away" to a different website."

[da8iwr]

Thanks guys
I'm looking for opinions on that page of copy itself in that link, whether that huge amount of text would be better to sell the same item than well formatted concise copy through a few pages on a website.

The products we are trying to sell are info/training DVDs for £69.99, i personally feel that format of copy in the link is for Get Rick Quick schemes to people desperately looking for an avenue.

The DVDs are aimed at professionals, people that know what they are doing but don't understand or know this specific area.

Many thanks
Ian

[Cartoon Logos]

Thanks guys
I'm looking for opinions on that page of copy itself in that link, whether that huge amount of text would be better to sell the same item than well formatted concise copy through a few pages on a website.

The products we are trying to sell are info/training DVDs for £69.99, i personally feel that format of copy in the link is for Get Rick Quick schemes to people desperately looking for an avenue.

The DVDs are aimed at professionals, people that know what they are doing but don't understand or know this specific area.

Many thanks
Ian

As my click bank link shows you (if you care to look) that's not the case, I myself have bought antique books (eBooks) and other items via ads like that.

You can get everything from a cure for bad breath to fitness advice, to dating tips to recipes. You name it. If it's an eBook or a course, that is the format used to sell it.

You may need to take the marketers advice on this one but you'll need a good cw to write the copy. YOU do need good copy.

Leah

ps. I'd compare like for like. Look on click back for a related product (to your clients) then look for website that sells similar and see which copy/presentation sells it better.

pps. You can opt for a more professional presentation than the sample you posted.

[The Pines]

Thanks guys
I'm looking for opinions on that page of copy itself in that link, whether that huge amount of text would be better to sell the same item than well formatted concise copy through a few pages on a website.

The products we are trying to sell are info/training DVDs for £69.99, i personally feel that format of copy in the link is for Get Rick Quick schemes to people desperately looking for an avenue.


That copy is geared to a specific market. It is long, which is fine, but what's not fine is that it's long-winded. It also has to overcome price objections. The price of that trading course is many times the price of the £70 DVD's you're selling.


The DVDs are aimed at professionals, people that know what they are doing but don't understand or know this specific area.


You'd be better off looking for a different type of 'template' site to work from. You're selling into a different market, probably using different methods of driving traffic to the site. You're not really comparing like with like.

Why does the marketing specialist think this would be a good template?

[da8iwr]

Hi Lea
I replied to a much older message, but i was on the phone and by the time i clicked reply, you had already replied, so i have now had a look.

The problem i have, is i feel there is a huge difference between the mentality of the British person and an American person.

The American person has a much more brash, in your face approach to everything.

British people are much more conservative in everything they do, they don't like to make a scene, emotional contact is very difficult for many people, and people being in your face is actually a real turn off for the general public.

I personally believe the copy in the link i posted, is very VERY American and the link you have sent me is form an American company in Colorado.

People in Europe like the IPhone type of style, smooth simple, stylish and doesn't expect the person who is reading it to be cooking a squirrel pie in a trailer home. :D

Or am i the only one who thinks like this, as it is starting to frustrate me that British copywriters are seeing copy from the states and thinking that the British/European people would also have the same response?

[da8iwr]

Why does the marketing specialist think this would be a good template?

God knows, this is why i set this thread up :|

[directmarketingadvice]

The products we are trying to sell are info/training DVDs for £69.99

So, does that mean you'll have a number of DVDs for sale on one site?

If so, you're probably better sticking to one page per product.

Steve

[directmarketingadvice]

I personally believe the copy in the link i posted, is very VERY American and the link you have sent me is form an American company in Colorado.

But you're not copying their copy, you're copying the format.

Steve

[Cartoon Logos]

Hi Lea
I replied to a much older message, but i was on the phone and by the time i clicked reply, you had already replied, so i have now had a look.

The problem i have, is i feel there is a huge difference between the mentality of the British person and an American person.

The American person has a much more brash, in your face approach to everything.

British people are much more conservative in everything they do, they don't like to make a scene, emotional contact is very difficult for many people, and people being in your face is actually a real turn off for the general public.

I personally believe the copy in the link i posted, is very VERY American and the link you have sent me is form an American company in Colorado.

People in Europe like the IPhone type of style, smooth simple, stylish and doesn't expect the person who is reading it to be cooking a squirrel pie in a trailer home. :D

Or am i the only one who thinks like this, as it is starting to frustrate me that British copywriters are seeing copy from the states and thinking that the British/European people would also have the same response?

I agree re this, but as I said, I've bought click bank products that use ads like this (without the brash style speak)

When I say like this, I mean in terms of layout

There is a clear format in terms of little ticked benefits, testimonials, offers, ps's and so on.

The copy can remain nice and professional and calm for UK buyer.

Is it a UK buyer only related product though?

So hard to know without knowing what the product is specifically. As I said earlier, these ads are generally only selling one product. They provide more in terms of freebies and incentives but essentially it's only one product they're selling from this 'landing page'.

Leah

ps. here is a shorter less brash sample landing page (http://www.instanthomewritingkit.com/?hop=leahg) - writing products

and a longer more brash one, but still professional - health business from home
(http://leahg.healthebiz.hop.clickbank.net)

[da8iwr]

But you're not copying their copy, you're copying the format.

Yes but the format is the American format, the way it is laid out and worded. I didn't mean the words itself , i meant the huge catch lines, and images with graphs and big psychological tick images and keywords that are so obvious it makes your toes curl.

You see I'm looking at this as a buyer, not a copywriter, as I'm a designer, and I'm sure you can tell from my posts here, I struggle to wrote my name at times. :D

[Cartoon Logos]

Yes but the format is the American format, the way it is laid out and worded. I didn't mean the words itself , i meant the huge catch lines, and images with graphs and big psychological tick images and keywords that are so obvious it makes your toes curl.

You see I'm looking at this as a buyer, not a copywriter, as I'm a designer, and I'm sure you can tell from my posts here, I struggle to wrote my name at times. :D

I agree, they make me cringe too, but they do work in terms of sales.

The forumla's have been tested, there is nothing about the formula that is left to chance

Can't you give us a clue what this product actually is or a similar website that isn't in this format?

[maxoula]

I'm British and I absolutely hate sites like that. Whenever I get to a page like that I leave immediately. It's too busy for my liking and too much "in your face". I hate hard-core sales and this feels to me like exactly that. It all just sounds too desperate to me.

The type of sites I like is same as recruitmentjuice.com. I liked it so much that I bought a set of DVDs from them that I didn't REALLY need:D

That's just my opinion:D

[directmarketingadvice]

Yes but the format is the American format, the way it is laid out and worded. I didn't mean the words itself , i meant the huge catch lines, and images with graphs and big psychological tick images

I think you need to be specific about what the copywriter has suggested.

Is it just a single page long copy sales letter?

Or, is it particular graphic elements?

A font size for the headline?

I've written single page salesletter web pages for the UK market. Done right,
they can work very well.

Steve

[da8iwr]

As I said earlier, these ads are generally only selling one product. They provide more in terms of freebies and incentives but essentially it's only one product they're selling from this 'landing page'.

Hi Lea
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/
This is one example of a single product which has been broken down into sub sections

Intro
Features
Why
Applications (additions)
Gallery
How to
Specs
This could easily be a one page advert in a long line.

What i fail to understand is almost every product with millions of pounds being pumped into it with full marketing teams, support from marketing and advertising companies such as Saatchi and Saatchi, will break it down into bite size chunks with Aethetic appeal... but small self employed CopyWriters like huge amount of text format?

Thats not a dig, its an obervation. When i look at your website Leah (http://www.painfreemarketing.co.uk) and yours Steve (http://www.stevegibsonconsulting.co.uk/), i see the same format as above. But when i goto huge agencies, or thier work i dont see any of that.

I'm British and I absolutely hate sites like that. Whenever I get to a page like that I leave immediately. It's too busy for my liking and too much "in your face". I hate hard-core sales and this feels to me like exactly that. It all just sounds too desperate to me.

Im the same, its so obvious when you get there, that i leave. In the same way we all get the crap sales calls

"Hi there, how is your afternoon going?"

Thats a questions form somebody i dont know, that only a friend of fmaily would ask, far too friendly, and you know is a very poor attempt to make you thier friend so they can get you t o buy shares from them as they work in wall street!!.

I agree, they make me cringe too, but they do work in terms of sales.

The forumla's have been tested, there is nothing about the formula that is left to chance

I would like to see the results that has been tested on a british audience, and not from american research.

PS
I also know that the IPhone is a slightly bad example as it has a lot of public knowledge already but i can give you a list of not well known products with very similar format.

And its a training DVD.. i cant say much more as i have an NDA signed.

[da8iwr]

I think you need to be specific about what the copywriter has suggested.

The copywriter sent this to my client

Sorry i have removed this quote, but naybody who is subscribed to this thread will have been emailed it

[Cartoon Logos]

When i look at your website Leah (http://www.painfreemarketing.co.uk) and yours Steve (http://www.stevegibsonconsulting.co.uk/), i see the same format as above. But when i goto huge agencies, or thier work i dont see any of that.



If I was selling to large companies, I wouldn't market myself with a £7.49pcm website and the format I've chosen ;)

But I'm not

My audience is small business folk who might be intimidated by a corporate website with prices to match the glitz of the site and it's not necessary for me to promote myself that way. I'm a one man band not a 'company'. My site reflects my personal service not a faceless corporation.

Every sales strategy has to match the intended market audience, we don't know what that is, as you won't tell us 'specifically' :)

Your clients product isn't expensive at £69

she may sell more volumne with the direct approach, hard to know without knowing the product

The iphone site matches the product, it's not the same product so really can't be compared. Like comapring how to sell chips with selling caviar ;)

You can't use the same ad for both products, one won't work!

ps. My site works for me :) if it didn't I'd change it.

I do myself prefer the pro look of some other cw sites, but they are often representing a 'team' and aiming at higher fees and corps. I'm happy doing bits and bobs here and there for now. But if I decide to aim higher I'll change the site accordingly.

[da8iwr]

Hi Leah
That truly wasn't a dig at either you or Steve, its just both your sites look visually extremely similar to a lot of get rich quick scheme american websites.

I just see British marketers pushing marketing from another country, which is a completely different audience and mind set, using American research studies to back up that it works in the UK. I'm not sure i trust this format to be honest.

I would love to see or find genuine marketing studies from UK academic research, to back this up. I'm sure the amount of PhDs and research universities there are, there must be tons of it!!!

But everything i have ever read or seen, has been american... i just finished reading a book about Ogilvy and 50% of it is great, but i don't think would work in Europe.

I think it would make a very good PhD (for anybody reading this), if it hasn't been done already.

Regards
Ian

[directmarketingadvice]

That truly wasn't a dig at either you or Steve, its just both your sites look visually extremely similar to a lot of get rich quick scheme american websites.

I use long copy because I know long copy beats short copy.

But everything i have ever read or seen, has been american... i just finished reading a book about Ogilvy and 50% of it is great, but i don't think would work in Europe.

Well, you're wrong.

As Drayton Bird wrote the other day (and he should know as he's been working in Direct Response in the UK for approx 40 years):

As a rule good long copy will always beat good short copy – because it:

a. Gives more reasons to act

b. Overcomes more objections

c. Repeats the proposition

Simple as that.

Steve

[Cartoon Logos]

Hi Leah
That truly wasn't a dig at either you or Steve, its just both your sites look visually extremely similar to a lot of get rich quick scheme american websites.

I just see British marketers pushing marketing from another country, which is a completely different audience and mind set, using American research studies to back up that it works in the UK. I'm not sure i trust this format to be honest.

I would love to see or find genuine marketing studies from UK academic research, to back this up. I'm sure the amount of PhDs and research universities there are, there must be tons of it!!!

But everything i have ever read or seen, has been american... i just finished reading a book about Ogilvy and 50% of it is great, but i don't think would work in Europe.

I think it would make a very good PhD (for anybody reading this), if it hasn't been done already.

Regards
Ian

Steve and I are both in business Ian :)

Without saying too much on the public board, the product you mentioned (if it's like the one I mentioned in email) is generally marketed using the reccomended method. It's your clients call. I understand your reservations but also you are naive thinking only get rich quick schemes are promoted this way.

The world's richest (6 figure) copywriters promote themselves thus

See Clayton makepeaces site for example. (http://www.makepeacetotalpackage.com/)

Meanwhile one big time cw thinks the end of the long sales letter is nigh and reiterates your views see

Michael Fortin's opinion here (http://www.michelfortin.com/shorter-salesletters-copy/)

Only problem with his opinion is that he expresses it with massively long copy!

I personally wouldn;t write those sales letters and my copy is no where 40 pages long as some of them are.
It resembles them but isn't them, I don't like them and will in time when neccessary (as said) change my site accordingly.

[Scott-CopyandDesign]

The style in the UK and America is generally different (in my opinion) and the length of the copy depends on what you're selling.

A £2000 program could take up to 8,000+ words to sell as direct response. A £50 piece of software could only need much less than a quarter of that amount.

Long copy though isn't a 'style' per se and that format can work in both the UK and the US. It has to because as Steve says, selling certain things will take much more convincing than others.

However, writing styles can differ in the long copy format. US copy can be a lot more brash and 'in your face', whilst UK copy can be more down to earth and logical. Styles differ further when you take into account what you're selling and who you're selling it to. Certain US audiences will be just as susceptible to UK-type copy as many UK audiences.

[Colin Parker]

You see I'm looking at this as a buyer, not a copywriter, as I'm a designer, and I'm sure you can tell from my posts here, I struggle to wrote my name at times. :D

No - you are not looking at this as a buyer.

A 'buyer' is someone who is motivated to search for your product or service and has landed on your website. They will view, react and involve themselves in the site in a totally different way to someone who is viewing the site to pass opinion or review it.

This is one of the reasons why long copy works for the motivated buyer and is found long winded and boring by the unmotivated.

I'll give you a classic example - I recently bought a new car and before buying I read every word of every review no matter how long it was. Now that I have bought ... would I read another long review on any other car ... exceedingly unlikely.

I learnt long ago in my direct response career never to compose or judge what I was copywriting on my opinions ... the only opinion that counts is that of the buyer.

Colin Parker

[directmarketingadvice]

A 'buyer' is someone who is motivated to search for your product or service and has landed on your website. They will view, react and involve themselves in the site in a totally different way to someone who is viewing the site to pass opinion or review it.

This is why focus groups can be so misleading.

They prefer short copy ads because they have no interest in reading about the subject. That doesn't mean short copy is better, it just means it takes less effort to read.

Steve

[Cartoon Logos]

I have found even when people don't agree with what I've written, regardless of length, they make it to the end.

I know, because of the feedback, good or bad!

Myself, I don't read long copy for low priced items (under £50) as my mind is usually made up within a couple fo seconds as I already want the product hence I was looking for it.

I just need to see a price and a little bit of supporting info, be assured of a money back guarantee and I'm off to paypal to buy it.

But, if I am buying a more expensive, serious product, I read every word twice. I know that product inside out.

I am the sort of person who reads those contracts you have to sign when you join BlockBusters and every other thing I am required to put a signature to.

You'd be amazed what you agree to in those! I tend to do a lot of crossing out before I sign them.

I digress..

Long copy is to ensure no stone is left unturned and every 'rule' is covered.

I say rule as when I invented a board game a 100 years ago, I had to write the rules. It was the hardest part as I had to anticipate every move every person playing it might attempt to make. I then had to decide if it was allowed or not.

Sales copy (long) is the same. You have to anticipate everything the client is going to want to know about that product, why they need and how their life will be better / miserable without it ;)

Leah

[BronwynDurand]

I have a client, who is wanting a website producing, and her marketing "specialist" said that this is the type of format the website copy should be...
http://tinyurl.com/m892vv

I have used a tinyurl, as i don't want any SEO advantage to this, no other reason.

I have told my client i will post this so she can see the responses, as i want to show what other peoples opinions are about this.

Please leave your feedback on it

Many thanks
Ian

Personally, I really hate this style of 'persuasion'. To me, its still part of a mindset that believes direct mail type copy is transferrable to web. I can't provide specific evidence to dispute the advice of the marketing specialist - if that is the advice, no doubt there must be some proven justification for it (which I'd ask for - no harm in asking for support for advice you are given.) Chances are it will work.
The challenge I'd make is what if there is a better way?
If everyone selling similar product does it in the same way, wouldn't something different be refreshing (and welcome) to an audience sick to death of scrolling through pages to find a reason to buy?
And then I'll recommend something that I can't believe hasn't already been suggested:

TEST

Standard google analytics even allows a/b testing.

Do a short copy version and a long copy version and display randomly to visitors. Monitor your conversion, click throughs and activity. Ditch the version that doesn't pull, or maintain both if they appeal to different buying styles. Some people like to review all the possible fine print, others like to 'see the meat'. I think its a shame to think there is only one way to sell something, and I'd like to see some insight into the buying styles of the audience in question. Just because the target market buys from this style doesn't mean they like it or find it particularly effective.

Testing and experimentation backed up with numbers (and insight) is the only way to prove this kind of argument, and even then, why should the argument ever be won? There is always more to learn about customers, so keep seeking better ways to tap into their needs.

[Colin Parker]

Personally, I really hate this style of 'persuasion'. To me, its still part of a mindset that believes direct mail type copy is transferrable to web. I can't provide specific evidence to dispute the advice of the marketing specialist - if that is the advice, no doubt there must be some proven justification for it (which I'd ask for - no harm in asking for support for advice you are given.) Chances are it will work.
The challenge I'd make is what if there is a better way?
If everyone selling similar product does it in the same way, wouldn't something different be refreshing (and welcome) to an audience sick to death of scrolling through pages to find a reason to buy?
And then I'll recommend something that I can't believe hasn't already been suggested:

TEST

Standard google analytics even allows a/b testing.

Do a short copy version and a long copy version and display randomly to visitors. Monitor your conversion, click throughs and activity. Ditch the version that doesn't pull, or maintain both if they appeal to different buying styles. Some people like to review all the possible fine print, others like to 'see the meat'. I think its a shame to think there is only one way to sell something, and I'd like to see some insight into the buying styles of the audience in question. Just because the target market buys from this style doesn't mean they like it or find it particularly effective.

Testing and experimentation backed up with numbers (and insight) is the only way to prove this kind of argument, and even then, why should the argument ever be won? There is always more to learn about customers, so keep seeking better ways to tap into their needs.

You say "you really hate this type of persuasion" ... I hate being cold called, being put on the decision spot with 'limited offers' and (sometimes but not always) having to submit my contact details on a website to get information.

However ... had I not practised in marketing what I personally hate ... my bank account (and those of many of my clients) would be very much lighter.

One of the biggest weaknesses of those practising marketing is that personal preferences dominate thinking. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You quite rightly say 'TEST' but you must not ignore what is proven to work in that particular market even if you personally 'hate' the method or format.

That is not to say another way might not work ... but many marketers have wasted time, money and opportunities by being pig headed and devout in their personal opinions.

Colin Parker

[BronwynDurand]

You say "you really hate this type of persuasion" ... I hate being cold called, being put on the decision spot with 'limited offers' and (sometimes but not always) having to submit my contact details on a website to get information.

However ... had I not practised in marketing what I personally hate ... my bank account (and those of many of my clients) would be very much lighter.

One of the biggest weaknesses of those practising marketing is that personal preferences dominate thinking. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You quite rightly say 'TEST' but you must not ignore what is proven to work in that particular market even if you personally 'hate' the method or format.

That is not to say another way might not work ... but many marketers have wasted time, money and opportunities by being pig headed and devout in their personal opinions.

Colin Parker

Hi Colin

I'm going to assume that you did in fact read my whole post, in which case, thank you for backing up my point.

Regardless of personal opinion, your marketing needs to do the best possible job for you, and testing commonly effective styles against new or different approaches, especially when those are proven to work in the medium in question (web) will enable you to experiment and work with the ways the deliver returns for your product in your chosen market.

[Cartoon Logos]

In June I bought a template sales letter package from a site which makes me wince when I visit it.

However, the product is (in my opinion) exceedingly good and so two days ago I decided to help promote it. It's a cheaper, effective option than my own service so may help those on a limited budget.

I've also used a template myself to good effect.

Anyway, the point is:

Even though the sales letter website looks ghastly, the content sold me sufficiently to buy the product..which was worth every penny (under £50)

But, I was half sold already as I was specifically looking for a product like this, though I was looking for free samples.

(I am collecting free sales letter templates to point blog readers to).

So the site content did persuade me to make a small investment. Risk free with a 100% money back guarantee.

If the site hadn't had so much info on it, I may have continued on my 'free samples' search. Costing me more in time than this entire package of samples cost me!

If a reader lands on a page accidentally, chances of them making a purchase are limited. But if they are looking for a specific product, the more questions you can answer instantly the better.

I have swapped my own site content around a lot recently, shorter v longer and I am back to longer as that works for me.

Leah

ps. Ian

My site hopefully now looks less like a get rich quick scmeme, please pass by and let me know if the changes are an improvement

http://www.painfreemarketing.co.uk

thanks

[da8iwr]

Hi Sorry i dropped out there for a few days been in the lakes, and it has been amazing weather which I'm sure most of you know is very rare for that area :)

I have a website with over 3000 paying clients www.joomlagooglebase.com (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com), it is pretty much my bread and butter site.

The site sells a few bits of software that i have invented to work directly with the CMS called Joomla and Google Base (Googles price comparison site).

It consists of a plugin which creates a special feed/document and sends it to google each night. It also has a component that allows you to add more information to each product in the CMS, than has been possible. The site has detailed pages of info, screens shots, and a video of it.

But i still get emails such as this one 2 days ago

I just downloaded the new component. I know what the plugin does, but what in the world does the component do?

I have received about 20 emails like this in the past 7 days or so, this is not because the info is not there, its because when i have replied to them, they said they couldn't be bothered to read the info as it was too long.

So even with detailed info pages like this (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com/version-5/why-joomla-google-base/why-joomla-google-base.html), that only has 168 words in 3 paragraphs, it is too long winded.
(I'm actually rebuilding a few pages as i type here, so some are empty right now).

I have never had anybody write to me and say, i would like to see more info on your site. But i have had people call me and just ask me directly what does it do blah blah blah, as they just cant be bothered to read the text.

So my views are not from my personal opinions, its from the thousands of clients i have who contact me every day through feedback forms to let me know how the site was for them.

And
Leah
Your site looks much better, you should make your profile pic a bit larger, as you scrub up pretty well :cool:.

All the best
Ian

[Cartoon Logos]

I have received about 20 emails like this in the past 7 days or so, this is not because the info is not there, its because when i have replied to them, they said they couldn't be bothered to read the info as it was too long.

So even with detailed info pages like this (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com/version-5/why-joomla-google-base/why-joomla-google-base.html), that only has 168 words in 3 paragraphs, it is too long winded.
(I'm actually rebuilding a few pages as i type here, so some are empty right now).

I have never had anybody write to me and say, i would like to see more info on your site. But i have had people call me and just ask me directly what does it do blah blah blah, as they just cant be bothered to read the text.

So my views are not from my personal opinions, its from the thousands of clients i have who contact me every day through feedback forms to let me know how the site was for them.



Hi Ian

Long copy isn't the problem here

I know EXACTLY what the problem is ;)

I am a technophobe, it took me 4 months to get around to using my new (very simple to use) mobile phone as I did not want to read the boring technobabble. I can't understand it and don't want to even try! I don't write technobabble for the same reason.

Thus, them not wanting to read your content is why you need an entertaining writer who uses laymans terms (not technobabble) to write your content which users MUST read. That or offer to talk them through it perhaps via a phone service where you charge per minute so you still make money while on the phone.

Laymen don't like technobabble but still need the service.

I also want to change my wordpress template and so many people have written me lovely LONG emails explaining in detail how to install my new template. I just can't get my head around the babble.

If you can master the art of talking to the layman you will sell more guaranteed.

This is a mistake almost 100% of all technical related product/service sites make.

The first site to translate this into laymans will clean up!

Glad you enjoyed your lake time! I myself got lost in the woods with bf and two small tired, hungry, thirsty children. Not fun. Piggy backs and shoulder carries all the way back to civilisation. But we survived :)

Meanwhile my site has changed again (and again and again) but think I figured out my usp in all this.

Thanks for critiquing my site, it helped a lot.

Leah

[Ali-v-8]

am i wrong in saying google is a trademark name and you are not allowed a url with it in the name.

[da8iwr]

Hi Ali
No that's not true, i have loads of domain names with Google in the name

www.joomlagooglebase.com (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com)
www.googlebaseproducts.com (http://www.googlebaseproducts.com)
www.googlebaseproperty.com (http://www.googlebaseproperty.com)
www.googlebasevehicles.com (http://www.googlebasevehicles.com)

and about 40 others similar.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google+base+property
Im number 1, 2 and 7 on the first page :D

The Trademark is regarding the colours and style of the logo, the actual word cannot be trademarked.

Companies keep threatening that it can be, but in real life it cant be.

As an example click on this link
http://www.nissan.com/
It has a link at the top to the story of the law suits that Nissan Motor company which has tried to swamp and scare this one man band that owns Nissan.com since before Nissan even existed and was called Datsun.

From what i understand is a problem is if a company tries to trade with a name that will mislead the customers to think they are trading as another company, like the latest McCurry case in Malaysia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8243270.stm), where MacDonald's lost :).

[Ali-v-8]

Hi Ali
No that's not true, i have loads of domain names with Google in the name

www.joomlagooglebase.com (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com)
www.googlebaseproducts.com (http://www.googlebaseproducts.com)
www.googlebaseproperty.com (http://www.googlebaseproperty.com)
www.googlebasevehicles.com (http://www.googlebasevehicles.com)

and about 40 others similar.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google+base+property
Im number 1, 2 and 7 on the first page :D

The Trademark is regarding the colours and style of the logo, the actual word cannot be trademarked.

Companies keep threatening that it can be, but in real life it cant be.

As an example click on this link
http://www.nissan.com/
It has a link at the top to the story of the law suits that Nissan Motor company which has tried to swamp and scare this one man band that owns Nissan.com since before Nissan even existed and was called Datsun.

From what i understand is a problem is if a company tries to trade with a name that will mislead the customers to think they are trading as another company, like the latest McCurry case in Malaysia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8243270.stm), where MacDonald's lost :).

Sorry to say this but "google" is a trade mark name.
I also remember a company called googleresell currently being sue for using google in the url

[Dymo King]

You see I'm looking at this as a buyer, not a copywriter, as I'm a designer,Seems more like you are looking at it as a designer rather than a buyer. I buy from sites like this all the time - the design means you can either read it in depth, or just skim it for the useful bits. Of course everyone is different, and some like you will just click away imediately. But it depends on the product, and the type of people that are going to buy it.

For your client the only way to know for sure is to split test it. And if you can't do that then find out the most successful competitors selling very similar products and see what approach they're using.

So even with detailed info pages like this (http://www.joomlagooglebase.com/version-5/why-joomla-google-base/why-joomla-google-base.html), that only has 168 words in 3 paragraphs, it is too long winded.That's probably because it's incredibly dull. My eyes kept glazing over as I attempted to read it.

I'm a techie and I use googlebase, but it was still really hard going trying to figure out what exactly it is/does...

I'd be much more likely to buy whatever it is from one of those 'brash' US style sales copy page sites. One that told me what the products was, what it could do for me, what the benefits were, something with bullet points and headings so I could skim through to the interesting bits... not a website where all the info is split up all over the place making me search round for it, with all the info written like this "It is the worlds only component specifically designed for Google Base and Joomla 1.5.X. It does nothing else, its not another component that has been modified to work with Google Base, it is built from the ground up to work specifically with Joomla/VirtueMart and Google Base.". OMG YAWN!

The sad thing is that I think it sounds like something that might be useful, but I just can't be bothered to read through it to find out...

I have received about 20 emails like this in the past 7 days or so, this is not because the info is not there, its because when i have replied to them, they said they couldn't be bothered to read the info If that isn't a hint that you need to rewrite the text in a form more readable to your customers I don't know what is!

[da8iwr]

Hey, maybe you should read the rest or my post rather than just slagging off my site, i said that i was rebuilding it as i was typing.

The software hasn't been officially launched yet, and wont be until the site is as i want it. The content that is there, is because Google Base has changed in the past few weeks in Germany, and i had to force an early release of my latest version to allow German members to keep uploading to Google Base, 2 days before going away. So once it is all updated, which should be tonight, the software will be launched with the thousands members being sent a newsletter etc.

I actively ask for comments and constructive criticism about my work as it is the only way i can progress. At the end of the every transaction there is a form for the member to fill in how they feel things could be improved.

I Don't want some person on a public forum slagging off my site saying it is boring and makes you glaze over. There wasn't one word of how my site could be reworked or helped to improve it, all you did is stand on your pedestal and slag it off.

I have produced internationally acclaimed award winning sites, some are in my blogs on this site featured in Vogue and other huge publications, the site i linked to is a bit of software i personally produce and sell in my spare time many time working up to 4am in the morning many nights.

[Dymo King]

Hey, maybe you should read the rest or my post rather than just slagging off my siteI read through the whole 4 pages of this thread before posting and the first half of my post was to answer your original post.

But you brought in that particular page of your site as an example to back up your point, and I was just pointing out that it didn't necessarily back up your point at all - in fact it seemed to prove the opposite.

You also brought up the fact that you get 20 customers a week asking you questsions because, as you say, "they can't be bothered to read throught the info on your site" - I'm just trying to help you understand WHY (because in my opinion (as a potential customer) it is just too unreadable, so no wonder they don't read it either).


I have no interest in, or nothing to gain from slagging off your site. I was just trying to make a point that the US way can be a good method of selling, and provide some constructive critisism of the example you brought up while I was there.

I actively ask for comments and constructive criticism about my work as it is the only way i can progress. At the end of the every transaction there is a form for the member to fill in how they feel things could be improved.So have you listened to the feedback from your 20 customers in the last 7 days and rewritten the information so that people are more likely to read it? And I give you some constructive critisism and you fly off on one. And every time someone in this thread has argued for the US model over your preferred model you have argued against them, rather than taking on board other peoples optinions. Doesn't sound like you are listening at all - it seems more like you started this thread hoping that everyone would validate your opinion rather than opening a debate and seeing what everyone else thought.

[Cartoon Logos]

I Don't want some person on a public forum slagging off my site saying it is boring and makes you glaze over. There wasn't one word of how my site could be reworked or helped to improve it, all you did is stand on your pedestal and slag it off.



Hey didn't you say my site looked like a "get rich quick scheme site" on this very forum? ;)

I didn't like the comment when you said it but I took it on board.
Whipped back to my site and re-worked it to reduce any hint of get rich quick impressions.

Meanwhile

I think all the other chap was saying was that your argument that long copy doesn't work based on your own readers responses wasn't the best argument as there could be other reasons why they were reluctant to read it. It is VERY hard to write entertaining technical copy. I wouldn't know where to begin.

In fact, what about having a video instead and talk people through the product. You could have written version and then have video saying

'technophobes this way!'

It might help get around the problem

Leah

ps. I have friend who created some brilliant (so he claims) website thingy and showed me the site explaining it all. I told him I didn't understand a word of it, so he proceeded to explain. In the end I pretended I 'got it' cos the technobabble was killing me!

Meanwhile, on my very own site, I have to be careful not to use the lingo we use in copywriting so as not to confuse people outside of marketing, advertising and copywriting which are most if not all of my clients!

It might seem like 'dumbing everything down' but really, it's a necessary evil and imperative.

When my own pals say to me..

" I don't understand what it is you do" after visiting my site and they are master degree educated. I know I have to do a re-write.