How much would you pay for a generic email/newsletter template?

[consultant]

I am setting up a business to sell html templates that can be used in emails and newsletter engines like Acajoom (in Joomla), phplist - well, anything that allows html insertion.

The aim is to offer generic value templates that improve the basic ones that are supplied, where the user just inserts text and images into place holders.

I would like to get an idea on what people might pay for these, so, if you wouldnt mind helping me by indicating in this thread, I would appreciate it.

Remember, these are not going to be the whiz bang templates you get from the corporates (well, not yet, anyway) but they will vastly improve the look of the basic ones supplied in the newsletter systems!

Thanks for your help!

[Hira&Hira]

Can you post a screenprint of an example then it'll be easier to state a price.

[consultant]

Here are a couple 'average' designs:

http://templates4email.com/images/templates4email%200011.pnghttp://templates4email.com/images/templates4email%200009.png

[rusty1001]

80 - 120 , depending on design quality, sometimes more, worth it . first impression..

[Peter Bowen]

I really like the bottom one with the red and blue guys.

I'd guess it's a tough market to make money in though. I just had a logo designed for $50 by a great outfit I found on elance. These guys operate in a lower cost economy and it's hard to compete

Cheers

Pete

[alphanumeric]

to be honest if your selling templates then somthing in the region (depending on how complex they are) £9 - £39. I very much doubt you would get any more than that.

You may also want to offer a load of free options that you can add advertising to the bottom of.

[Pete Crane]

Generic 1/2/3 column templates are available free in a lot of spots round the web - we give them away in our site - so I doubt you'll see much gain from the time invested.

[consultant]

Peter C,

do your templates work in the applications I mention?

The issue is that if you type in 'free email templates' nothing pops up that works 'out off the box'. Indeed, they need a lot of work - beyond the scope of a majority of users!

Also, doing a search for email templates doesnt yield anything new - what is your website.

Rusty, David & Peter B - thanks for your comments.

[Pete Crane]

You did mention templates that will work in specific mail apps and I missed that bit. So the fact that you're going for some specific users could be more productive for you. Like the motto of the London Surgical Truss Company, I stand corrected. ;)

Small point to make though; I'd question whether you're looking at this in quite the right way - a template has to be readable in the popular email reader apps, not geared to the send engine. And this is where a lot of the freebies fall down, in some cases quite badly. For example I was pointed to some so-called free email templates by a customer that turned out to be web pages - completely unusable yet hawked as suitable for email marketing.

I would imagine the templates we published would be usable as they are very vanilla html 1 or 2 column pieces with a bit of inline css for content and nothing more. Being free they have very little in them, the idea being to be something for people to play with as they see fit. You're quite right about a lot of people not being able to use most free templates, but that can be down to either the person not being competent to code what they want and don't have the time or inclination to learn properly, or the template itself is not suitable - in which case they're better off starting from scratch or getting help. I'd just hope they don't opt to go down the image based template road instead, like the one I had earlier today from a certain firm in Cheshire offering email marketing and SEO services.:mad:

[consultant]

I have noticed the amount of structured HTML emails I receive rocket over the past 6 months. Looking at there design, the templates we will have will be similar, just more focussed towards certain engines, but usable in many clients/systems.

As for the full page picture mail, spam systems are getting less tolerant, so more of these will start missing the targets - they are a lazy way of getting a message over!

[cmcp]

Check these out http://www.activecampaign.com/email-templates/free-templates.php

[yorkie]

We build html templates that work on all platforms for 45 pound a time. These are of course custom designed as well. Its a very competitive market.

[consultant]

the activecampaign ones fit the bill - thanks for the pointer - they are the first I have seen that work 'out of the box'!

[Rhys0980]

Cardiff company, concept marketing group.........£30.00 pr month for up to 2000 e-mails, free template

[consultant]

Wow, if you run your own server (bolt one of the systems on to you own site) it is free (the hosting is already a sunk cost), allowing you to send thousands, if not millions of emails!

I would recomend the millions, though, as it might be perceived that your are spamming!.

So, use a company for £360 a year or do it your self with some free software and a template!

[Pete Crane]

Wow, if you run your own server (bolt one of the systems on to you own site) it is free (the hosting is already a sunk cost), allowing you to send thousands, if not millions of emails!

I would recomend the millions, though, as it might be perceived that your are spamming!.

So, use a company for £360 a year or do it your self with some free software and a template!

I'm not really sure how to read this post, the second sentence in particular.

[consultant]

Sorry, meant to say 'wouldn't'!

[matt.chatterley]

Generic 1/2/3 column templates are available free in a lot of spots round the web - we give them away in our site - so I doubt you'll see much gain from the time invested.

I'm inclined to agree with Pete - plus if you look at a lot of the email marketing tools out there (MailChimp, etc) - they include a shedload of templates, some of which are pretty decent!

[consultant]

matt,

you are right, but most of the free ones (all of Mailchimps) do not work 'out of the box' with the applications I mentioned!

Although my initial question was general, it was based on a few specific applications e.g. Acajoom and phplist.

Also rememeber, as web designers you could do this with you eyes closed - some people can't and, unfortunately, will not employ a designer, just plod on as they are!

[matt.chatterley]

matt,

you are right, but most of the free ones (all of Mailchimps) do not work 'out of the box' with the applications I mentioned!

Although my initial question was general, it was based on a few specific applications e.g. Acajoom and phplist.

Also rememeber, as web designers you could do this with you eyes closed - some people can't and, unfortunately, will not employ a designer, just plod on as they are!

Ah, fair point. Teach me to reply too early in the morning - I didn't read half of your first sentence properly!

I do wonder how many people use these sorts of systems and would want to buy templates, though, but I don't know for sure either way.

You're definitely right about cant/wont - often people don't even ask how much something might cost, because they have preconceptions about how "expensive" it is going to be.. :)

Best of luck with it, in any case!

[Pete Crane]

Wow, if you run your own server (bolt one of the systems on to you own site) it is free (the hosting is already a sunk cost),

Right, so let's take a look at this piece of advice in a bit more detail.

Firstly, if you have a dedicated or VPS from a hosting company then to disregard this cost is disingenuous. You also don't mention that hosting companies will have terms and conditions surrounding their use for email marketing purposes. Some will forbid it outright while others will restrict it to permission-based only. Break this and you are at risk of being summarily taken offline - losing access to what you have on your server. If that includes your web presence then it's not exactly the brightest idea in the world.

Of course, you could then purchase a second package for your email marketing application - which will be an additional cost, probably appreciably higher than the charge from an Email Service Provider.

allowing you to send thousands, if not millions of emails!

I wouldn't recomend the millions, though, as it might be perceived that your are spamming!.

Nope. You should only send to people who have given you permission. Irrespective of the law in this country, if you send an email to someone who has not asked for it then you can be labelled a spammer. And it does not take millions for this to happen. It can be just one. In fact, if you care to take a look at Australia's Spam Act 2003 this makes exactly this point. And if someone complains, be it to their ISP or the likes of Spamhaus, then your IP address may be blocked. Which your server hosting company will not like in the slightest. I'll be quite blunt here; your comments about sending emails are really very irresponsible and highly unprofessional.

So, use a company for £360 a year or do it your self with some free software and a template!

Now that's not really true is it? Using a third party email marketing application entails installation, configuration and testing. All of which will take an appreciable amount of knowledge, time, and - therefore - cost. Maintaining the app requires time and knowledge. Which are costs. The headline price of some apps may claim to be free but it becomes a cost.

Using an ESP is an upfront cost, but it includes a whole back end of work that you as the user do not have to undertake. Create an account and go. Which to most people is exactly what they want. It's convenient, fast, and cheaper than attempting to have an in-house system instead.

Email marketing vendors have been peddling this idea about their products being cheaper than using an ESP for some time now, but it doesn't hold water when you take a moment and realise the rather important details they prefer to gloss over. Free is no more than a headline, actual use means anything but.

[consultant]

Peter,

"Firstly, if you have a dedicated or VPS from a hosting company then to disregard this cost is disingenuous. You also don't mention that hosting companies will have terms and conditions surrounding their use for email marketing purposes. Some will forbid it outright while others will restrict it to permission-based only. Break this and you are at risk of being summarily taken offline - losing access to what you have on your server. If that includes your web presence then it's not exactly the brightest idea in the world. "

You dont need a dedicated VPS, just a normal hosting account with php/mysql. If you are running Joomla, you will already have this. Also, it is a sunk cost - you are already paying for it. Maybe I should have put 'no additional cost'.

As for hosting companies restrictions, it is true that most, if not all, have some condition, which is a must. However, I have/do use 3 different companies and all of them allow email marketing, as long as it isnt spam (by allow, I mean dont restrict!).

I have been sending mailings from 50 - 5000, all permission based, and never had a comment from the hosts! But that doesnt mean other people will not!



"You should only send to people who have given you permission. Irrespective of the law in this country, if you send an email to someone who has not asked for it then you can be labelled a spammer. "

Agreed. I do not endorse spamming, as I like most of us, am a victim! This was more of a flipant statment on my behalf.



"Using an ESP is an upfront cost, but it includes a whole back end of work that you as the user do not have to undertake. Create an account and go. Which to most people is exactly what they want. It's convenient, fast, and cheaper than attempting to have an in-house system instead."

Most people want an easy life and great results, which may or may not be an ESP!

As for cheaper, please explain how free software, quick to install and set up is expensive! Acajoom for Joomla takes about 10 seconds to install and a 5-10 minutes to set up (a better guide would improve this). phpmail does take more, however, it still can be done in 15-30 minutes!

Peter, I am not here saying that own systems are better than ESP's or vice versa, however, you seem to have missed the point of my offer and the post in general. Many people start off with a zero budget so can't afford £360 a year. Some begrudge paying £360 (or, indeed, anything). Some think they can do it themselves. That is who I am aiming at. BTW, I fell into one of those people types (if not all 3!), and I do not think I approached starting my first business in a different way to many!!

[Cartoon Logos]

I am setting up a business to sell html templates that can be used in emails and newsletter engines like Acajoom (in Joomla), phplist - well, anything that allows html insertion.

The aim is to offer generic value templates that improve the basic ones that are supplied, where the user just inserts text and images into place holders.

I would like to get an idea on what people might pay for these, so, if you wouldnt mind helping me by indicating in this thread, I would appreciate it.

Remember, these are not going to be the whiz bang templates you get from the corporates (well, not yet, anyway) but they will vastly improve the look of the basic ones supplied in the newsletter systems!

Thanks for your help!



Vista print do template emails

They charge £3.99 a month

Is this the sort of thing you're offering?

They advertise it thus:

"Email Marketing - Made Easy

Try it FREE for one month!

Make a great first impression

http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/sf/_langid-2/_/vp/images/b09/common/bullet/bullet1.gif Reach out to customers with targeted emails
http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/sf/_langid-2/_/vp/images/b09/common/bullet/bullet1.gif Select from hundreds of design templates for each campaign
http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/sf/_langid-2/_/vp/images/b09/common/bullet/bullet1.gif Powerful tracking and reporting tools
http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/sf/_langid-2/_/vp/images/b09/common/bullet/bullet1.gif Starting as low as £3.99 per month"

This is their gallery
http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/gallery.aspx?pg=51

Are you able to compete with this price?

Leah

[Pete Crane]

You dont need a dedicated VPS, just a normal hosting account with php/mysql.

Hang on, you're the one commenting about running your own server - I merely replied to that. If you're now talking about just having a webhosting account then you'll need to make sure you're not going to run into bandwidth and traffic ceilings. And chacking the terms and conditions of your service becomes more important, along with the risk of having your presence removed summarily by the ISP if they don't like what you're up to.

As for cheaper, please explain how free software, quick to install and set up is expensive! Acajoom for Joomla takes about 10 seconds to install and a 5-10 minutes to set up (a better guide would improve this). phpmail does take more, however, it still can be done in 15-30 minutes!

I already set out why 'free' is anything but. But for your benefit, here's a summary:
The software has to be installed, configured and tested. Which is a time & cost
The software has to be maintained. Which is a time & cost
You may have additional expenses from implementing the software, ranging from additional hosting charges, leased line/bandwidth/traffic limits. Which is a time & cost.
You will require time to monitor IP address and liaise with parties to avoid being blacklisted and maintain high delivery rates. Which is a time & cost.
And of course should it go down then it's up to you to find out why and fix it. One or two apps do have good knowledge bases, but again you have to determine the fault and then discover the fix. Time & cost.

For most people installing and configuring such software is NOT going to take 10 seconds. They will take a lot longer, possibly making errors along the way, even trying to implement an application that they can't use as they have the wrong hosting package or their server does not have the required base. It's not correct to just assume that your experience applies to everyone else. It simple doesn't.

Peter, I am not here saying that own systems are better than ESP's or vice versa, however, you seem to have missed the point of my offer and the post in general. Many people start off with a zero budget so can't afford £360 a year. Some begrudge paying £360 (or, indeed, anything).

I didn't either. However, you are saying they are cheaper, and not looking properly at the details. As to the cost of using an ESP, your use of £360 is spin. If you have a small permission list then in some cases you can have a free ESP account to get you going, and then require a template. Which in many cases is also available - free.

[consultant]

Leah,

not really. My concept is supplying templates that are compatible with:

phplist (http://www.phplist.com/)
Acajoom for Joomla (http://www.ijoobi.com/index.php?jaffid=c01d1zsca)

and a few other system.

The Vistaprint service at £3.99 is for upto 50 contacts, the £0.08 per email. As the users go up, the monthly also increases, however, the email rate goes down.

[Cartoon Logos]

Leah,

not really. My concept is supplying templates that are compatible with:

phplist (http://www.phplist.com/)
Acajoom for Joomla (http://www.ijoobi.com/index.php?jaffid=c01d1zsca)

and a few other system.

The Vistaprint service at £3.99 is for upto 50 contacts, the £0.08 per email. As the users go up, the monthly also increases, however, the email rate goes down.

ahh interesting

In this case, I have no idea, sorry!

Leah

[consultant]

Peter,

you are right - I am mixing my servers!!! These systems can be run on a hosted, VPS or dedicated server, as long as the core software is installed!

As for the installation and maintenance, many people do not count the cost of their own time (or value it much) like we do! Using both pieces of software, they have been maintenance free, outside of the occaisional upgrades, that many people may not undertake.

Have you ever used a Joomla installation?
Download component
Goto contril panel and select add component
select software file
press upload install
voila! OK, maybe 20 seconds. Initial setup for a newbie may be 5 minutes, could be 20-30, but is is quick!

As for 'free', I am basing this on personal experience (OK, I didnt value the cost of my time, but was/is part of my working day, so, already covered). I have sent tens of thousands of messages in the past year without any complaint. looking at bouncebacks, nothing seems to relate to a blacklist, so I must be doing something right!

Didn't you quote £30 per month? Leah points to a service that is £3.99 per month + £0.08 per email for upto 50 emails (assuming you use all, thats £7.99!!!). Here are some other options:

Constant Contact (http://search.constantcontact.com/pricing/pricing-plans.jsp)
NewZapp (http://www.newzapp.co.uk/pricing.asp)
Mailchimp (http://www.mailchimp.com/pricing/) Free for upto 100 subscribers!!!

DO they offer better value than running your own system - only the user can make that call!

[Pete Crane]

you are right - I am mixing my servers!!! These systems can be run on a hosted, VPS or dedicated server, as long as the core software is installed!

Thanks for clearing this bit up. Now for this you will have to review your platform to make sure the prerequisites are already there. If they're not, you have to get them. If your server is hosted you will should really shcek you can use them first - there may be reasons why they are not installed.
Ultimately you're looking spending some time evaluating what you have.

Let's not forget, if you already have a dedicated server for this - and I'm going to be generous in that you use what you already have and not purchase a new one which would bounce the costs way in favour of using an ESP - you'll need to look at your line out and consider the bandwidth you'll be taking up. And you will have to check the terms of usage with your supplier; many place specific restrictions around the use of their lines for email marketing systems. I forgot to mention security too. Which could be fun.

As for the installation and maintenance, many people do not count the cost of their own time (or value it much) like we do!

Now that's not really correct; Business owners do count and value the cost of their time. Even back when I was a dogsbody in a car repair place, the boss there was focused hard on time and cost. You can't disregard this.

Using both pieces of software, they have been maintenance free, outside of the occaisional upgrades, that many people may not undertake.

I'm pretty aware of Joomla - enough to know it can be fairly robust and it's not difficult to install and configure. But then I speak as someone with a pretty good level of technical expertise. However, take a look at the newbies forum in their community area - 36106 threads - or the Installation section - 8396 threads. That's a lot of questions from people on some quite specific along with pretty basic points. It isn't the snap you present to get going and maintain for an awful lot of people.

As for 'free', I am basing this on personal experience (OK, I didnt value the cost of my time, but was/is part of my working day, so, already covered). I have sent tens of thousands of messages in the past year without any complaint. looking at bouncebacks, nothing seems to relate to a blacklist, so I must be doing something right!

That's good, but there are plenty others who dived in and got way over their heads due to them being seduced by the idea of doing email marketing for free without realising the tasks involved, resulting in them wasting a lot of their time and spending far more overall. I am frankly amazed you don't cost in your own time. You would if it were for a client.

Didn't you quote £30 per month?

No, someone else did and I won't use this thread to promote my company either. I'm a bit old-fashioned like that - or stupid, depending on your view ;).

I meant to say before actually - thanks for reminding me - the company offering the service really could do with a website deeper than 1 page.

DO they offer better value than running your own system - only the user can make that call!

I think the user, once they are presented with the full facts about the cost of email marketing when undertaken in-house versus outsourcing, will see the route most suited to themselves. And for the vast majority it's to use an ESP.

There is a simple basic point to all this. Outsourcing the service to an ESP is simpler, more convenient and cheaper than trying to do it all yourself, which is why it's so popular - businesses realise they are saving time and money with this option. Going the in-house can be preferable in some cases BUT it presents a lot more work than tends to be disclosed.

Having said all that, I think your idea to have templates for a specific set of users could get some mileage. With 339pages of questions in the Templates section of Joomla it would appear you may have some eager takers! So best of luck with it and I hope it goes well for you.