Flash and SEO

[voiceswf]

Hi,

I just want to test the existing SEO Companies knowledge on the subject of "Flash & SEO"; so I will start by asking the following question:

Flash is widely accused of harming search engine visibility – this is the main reason as to why so many SEO companies/individuals are concerned about using Flash on their websites – this is undeserved in my opinion. What is your opinion?

Everyone’s participation would be really appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[TheSlackers]

My opinion is that is flash is used along with the more traditional HTML then there's no problems. If you use flash for anything and everything you're asking for trouble. Sure, search engines are getting better all the time but there's little reason to build in 100% flash.

[atlascs]

Flash as far as I'm aware cannot yet be indexed by Google and therefore if a website that is made up of nothing but one HTML page and embedded Flash your site content will not be properly indexed. If Flash is a necessity then either

a) Implement a separate HTML version of your site or
b) Use Flash sparingly around your site while maintaining as much HTML content as possible

[An Oasis]

Flash can be and is indexed by certain engines but it depends on how the text within the flash file is utilised…now you have to take a stab at which method to use.;)

And yes I have tested and can prove it.:rolleyes:

[OldWelshGuy]

Not sure that saying you want to 'test the SEO's' is a very apt way to get any help.

To answer your question, the question itself is flawed as you have not stated example of use. Are we talking about some flash elements in a page? Are we talking about a complete 200 page website built exclusively in flash? Completely different things.

can google read flash content? Depends how it is written.
Can google parse url's from flash? depends how it is written.
Can flash pass on link juice through links within movies? nope not at all, but google can get links out for link discovery.
Can google tell the structure of a flash file? Nope it will see all 200 pages of a flash site as one page, one file.
Is it good to put important textual content and links into flash? nope, for the reasons above.

So here is a test back :) which of the above statements are right, and which are wrong ;)

[Ali-v-8]

Not sure that saying you want to 'test the SEO's' is a very apt way to get any help.

To answer your question, the question itself is flawed as you have not stated example of use. Are we talking about some flash elements in a page? Are we talking about a complete 200 page website built exclusively in flash? Completely different things.

can google read flash content? Depends how it is written.
Can google parse url's from flash? depends how it is written.
Can flash pass on link juice through links within movies? nope not at all, but google can get links out for link discovery.
Can google tell the structure of a flash file? Nope it will see all 200 pages of a flash site as one page, one file.
Is it good to put important textual content and links into flash? nope, for the reasons above.

So here is a test back :) which of the above statements are right, and which are wrong ;)

google read flash pages as one page but cannot distinguish the content. The content is an image so an alternate method must be implemented for google to associate the content with your url. (like tagging images on your website)
an analogy is simple creating brail for a blind man to read a book. blind man is google the book is your website.

[edmondscommerce]

using flash for banners etc is absolutley fine.

For textual content (which is what SEO is all about) there is no reason to use flash and if you really must there are neat tricks you can do with javascript to replace text with flash onload, so search engines still get the text (as do users who have flash disabled)

[voiceswf]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your replies - interesting. Sorry for my absence, I was waiting for more replies.

Yes Google can now index flash content on sites, here is an updated url:

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/06/flash-indexing-with-external-resource.html (http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/06/flash-indexing-with-external-resource.html)

And for those who want to investigate this further, check this out:

http://www.flashnseo.com (http://www.flashnseo.com/)

And witness some really cool experiments.


Kind Regards,


Voiceswf

[fisicx]

Yes Google can index flash if the site has been constructed correctly but where is the advantage? Just because you can use flash doesn't mean it's any better than HTML/CSS.

I agree that you can create some clever visuals with flash but this is just eye candy. And eye candy doesn't convert as well and good quality content. And for that there's nothing better then good old HTML.

[Ali-v-8]

I agree with Graham. Flash is just a tool. It looks good when used correctly (some time not good at all) and can add a gimmick to your website.
Flash banners yes.
Flash website no.

[voiceswf]

Hi,

Yes Google can index flash if the site has been constructed correctly but where is the advantage? Just because you can use flash doesn't mean it's any better than HTML/CSS.

I agree that you can create some clever visuals with flash but this is just eye candy. And eye candy doesn't convert as well and good quality content. And for that there's nothing better then good old HTML.

Who ever said Flash was any better or less than using Html/Css? You needs to chill dude ;)

Some folks like their static sites and some want dynamic ones - SIMPLES!


Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[davin.master]

yea, i am agree with you and thanks for valuable advice and information on flash website SEO.

Thanks

[fisicx]

Who ever said Flash was any better or less than using Html/Css? You needs to chill dude ;)
Your original post asked about flash and SEO. HTML/CSS is much better from an SEO perspective than flash. SIMPLES!

[voiceswf]

Hi,

Your original post asked about flash and SEO. HTML/CSS is much better from an SEO perspective than flash. SIMPLES!

That's your opinion - your obviously an SEO guru, perhaps?

Kind Regards,


Voiceswf

[fisicx]

That's your opinion - your obviously an SEO guru, perhaps?
Not a guru just someone who reads, tests and analyses. Since google strips everythong oput of the document except the primary tags during indexing, the layout of the document can influence the indexing process. Using HTML/CSS you can create a logical information flow that makes semantic sense. If you use images, maps, layers or even flash this logical structure begins to break down and your ranking can suffer accordingly. It's not rocket science, it's just adherence to the guidelines published by the search engines:
Use a text browser such as Lynx (http://www.google.com/search?q=lynx+browser) to examine your site, because most search engine spiders see your site much as Lynx would. If fancy features such as JavaScript, cookies, session IDs, frames, DHTML, or Flash keep you from seeing all of your site in a text browser, then search engine spiders may have trouble crawling your site.http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769

[voiceswf]

Hi,

Good god you make me laugh, my sides are popping, serious dude ;)

You stated that:
"Not a guru just someone who reads, tests and analyses."

If it were the case, why then was I able to spot 6 errors and 3 warnings on your home page?

Dodgy Document type, No XML Declaration, No XML namespace, Character Encoding Mismatch. And to top it all off, missing Alt tags from within the Img tags?

Your client pages are also containing similiar ERRORS. Why this? :|

Regarding SEO, I will give you a little hint:

Ever heard of meta tags, dude? Just, your home page is missing some vitals...

That link to Google you provided... hmn... clearly states the following:

Make sure that your <title> elements and ALT attributes are descriptive and accurate.


Check for broken links and correct HTML.


Game over, SIMPLES!

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[voiceswf]

Hi All,

Any one here who knows how to get to the moon on the back of a butterfly? Just I am lacking some Rocket Science :rolleyes:

Sorry, I could not resist - my sides, serious.

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[fisicx]

If it were the case, why then was I able to spot 6 errors and 3 warnings on your home page? Dodgy Document type, No XML Declaration, No XML namespace, Character Encoding Mismatch. And to top it all off, missing Alt tags from within the Img tags?
Ever heard of meta tags, dude? Just, your home page is missing some vitals...

Without getting into a slanging match because that will acheive zero, there's no XML because it's HTML (don't bother with a site map). The others don't affect ranking so I'm really not concerned. Alt tags fair enough but their SEO influence is minimal and not things I want to rank for. As to meta tags, they aren't used for ranking. But thank you for pointing out the errors, I will get round to fixing them but it's not really a priority (valid code is not necessarily a ranking signal)

[voiceswf]

Hi,

My sides are bursting.... Your a funny guy dude :D

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[fisicx]

Incidentally, did you know your site fails validation as well: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i-tuts.com%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0

Glad I'm keeping you amused.

[voiceswf]

Hi,

What errors? However, thanks for advertising my site, cheers dude ;)

Your a comedian, right? My sides are just splitting. :D

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[fisicx]

What errors? However, thanks for advertising my site, cheers dude ;)
Err, the ones that were on the validation page. Glad you have fixed them.

[voiceswf]

Hi,

Are you sure that you read, tested and analysed what you saw?

Enough now please, my sides cannot take this much longer ;)

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[TheAlbear]

They are working on a way to index flash, but it won’t happen until the introduction of HTMl 5, until then they are not spider able so if you have content in flash it will be hidden from the search engines.

Video sites like YouTube are an exception to this rule as the tag relating to the video are spidered and the search engine ranks it highly , but again this is the page content not the flash file.

[Frantic Fish]

Until I see big companies that can afford top SEO and top Flash design using Flash heavily in their sites and still ranking for competitive terms, I think I'll stay away from Flash. If they could rank and use it they would. They can't so they don't.