Would you pay to have your first webiste created? [Archive]

GetTaylored

21st July 2009, 09:51

If you get a bedroom designer to build your site, could you be sure their still going to be around / be bothered to sort out problems a few months down the line when you discover they haven't built the site properly and things start going wrong?

Totally agree. If i couldn't build my own and was starting a business i would have to get a web developer to build it, many people don't see web development as an investment which is what it is.

Get your site done properly and it will pay for itself. Make a mess of it and it'll cost you in the long run.

iQDesk

21st July 2009, 10:28

It's a no brainer! One of the biggest mistakes newbies make is trying to build their own website using templates and wizards on the net. Unless you are a professional web developer and graphic designer I wouldn't build one myself.
Would you buy or do business with a dodgy looking website? I wouldn't...

As for budgeting,it really depends on how many pages, what sort of website you need. Type of website,Graphic design features etc. It can be anything from $800 including design for a simple website and the sky is the limit.

I suggest you get a few quotes and go for the best not necessarily the cheapest. I happen to own a web development company so feel free to contact me for a quote :)

Place of design

21st July 2009, 11:50

This question may sound a bit strange, I know.

When you started your own internet business:

Did you create your first website?

Did you get someone else to do it for you?

If somebody else would be to create your first website how much would you be prepared to pay?

There is a misconception that "installing the software" is the same as "having a store". The impact a good designer/developer can have on a new build is not to be underestimated. The anology made with a shop fitter is a good one. However some designers also can bring a valuable raft of experience from on and off line retailing to your new business

The real question is: can you afford NOT to have a professional on the job?

I am a very competent at DIY & decorating... However There is no way in a million years, I wouldn't get a good, trusted shop fitting company in for a new build in a bricks and morter shop, and let them just get on with it

The cost of a e-commerce site, with a professional on board will be approx £1000 upwards. Without knowing the scale of your project, it would be very hard to give a "ball park figure" as to your build cost

roythehandyman

21st July 2009, 12:11

Recycling Man

21st July 2009, 12:19

Bad speling not good - webiste

roythehandyman

21st July 2009, 12:25

It shows that I am human:D

GetTaylored

21st July 2009, 12:26

I have to put my two pennys worth in here. Remember that saying "give a man a fish and he will feed his family for a day, Teach him how to fish and he will feed his family for a lifetime" ? something like that anyway. If had to pay someone to build and run my website I would be in real trouble should a time come when I have a cashflow prob. I taught myself how to build and maintain my website, It may well be bog standard but it works and when it doesent, I can fix it. I think website designers are very gifted people but the net would not die without them. Neither does my website. It is very successful. I may have considerd paying someone to teach me how to build a site but I would never allow myself to be fully dependant on a designer.

You might be right up to a point but the original poster was talking about starting an internet business and an internet business with a bad website is already at a disadvantage. Whilst your handy man website probably gets you a fair amount of business you could probably get as much from word of mouth or local advertising so your business isn't totally reliant on its website.

In terms of being able to fix stuff yourself if it goes wrong, personally i'd give a client as much help as i could if i was told they had cash flow issues, by this i mean i'd probably make a few changes/updates to their site free of charge, if it was something more i'd show them how to do it themselves.

Although, i'm not sure this actually applies to the original poster so nevermind. :D

GetTaylored

21st July 2009, 12:27

It shows that I am human:D

It happens to all of us. :D

SFD

21st July 2009, 12:30

I have to put my two pennys worth in here. Remember that saying "give a man a fish and he will feed his family for a day, Teach him how to fish and he will feed his family for a lifetime" ? something like that anyway. If had to pay someone to build and run my website I would be in real trouble should a time come when I have a cashflow prob. I taught myself how to build and maintain my website, It may well be bog standard but it works and when it doesent, I can fix it. I think website designers are very gifted people but the net would not die without them. Neither does my website. It is very successful. I may have considerd paying someone to teach me how to build a site but I would never allow myself to be fully dependant on a designer.

I agree with what you are saying and agree, to an extent.

With a basic HTML site it is fairly easy to pick up the basics. What if you wanted to start an ecommerce store though, would you try and teach yourself how to code and skin one of those?

I'd rather pay someone and have something working within a week rather start doing it bit by bit myself for the next year.

roythehandyman

21st July 2009, 12:32

You might be right up to a point but the original poster was talking about starting an internet business and an internet business with a bad website is already at a disadvantage. Whilst your handy man website probably gets you a fair amount of business you could probably get as much from word of mouth or local advertising so your business isn't totally reliant on its website.

In terms of being able to fix stuff yourself if it goes wrong, personally i'd give a client as much help as i could if i was told they had cash flow issues, by this i mean i'd probably make a few changes/updates to their site free of charge, if it was something more i'd show them how to do it themselves.

Although, i'm not sure this actually applies to the original poster so nevermind. :D

Ah but, you sound like one of the good guys. But there are not many of those out there, especialy when you really need one.

Recycling Man

21st July 2009, 12:34

:) - this an auto response - we hope you have day good.

fisicx

21st July 2009, 12:35

I taught myself how to build and maintain my website, It may well be bog standard but it works and when it doesent, I can fix it. I think website designers are very gifted people but the net would not die without them. Neither does my website. It is very successful.
I agree Roy, but setting up a static site is a little different to setting up an ecommenrce store. And have you researched the effects of whitespace, typography, information chunking, CSS, usability and acessibility, passive and active copy, funnel and converting pages and a whole lot more. Building a website is easy. Making it effective can take a lot of work. In just a couple of minutes I've spotted a whole bunch of things you could do to your site that would increase the amount of work it brings you.

And if everyone took your attitude you would be out of work. Nobody would need a handyman because they have learnt to fish for themselves.

GetTaylored

21st July 2009, 12:38

And if everyone took your attitude you would be out of work. Nobody would need a handyman because they have learnt to fish for themselves.

Spot on. :D

Place of design

21st July 2009, 12:45

I have to put my two pennys worth in here. Remember that saying "give a man a fish and he will feed his family for a day, Teach him how to fish and he will feed his family for a lifetime" ? something like that anyway. If had to pay someone to build and run my website I would be in real trouble should a time come when I have a cashflow prob. I taught myself how to build and maintain my website, It may well be bog standard but it works and when it doesent, I can fix it. I think website designers are very gifted people but the net would not die without them. Neither does my website. It is very successful. I may have considerd paying someone to teach me how to build a site but I would never allow myself to be fully dependant on a designer.
There is a lot of logic in what you are saying, which is why a good designer will provide training and offer ongoing support. Different people have differing levels of capabilities. The bottom line is some people need the lot doing, some people just need a nudge in the right direction. Some things we do are so complex that your average person wanting to learn will just never grasp it. Other things are so simple, that even my mum could do it!

Some people can do really advanced obscure maths, others algebra, some people are happy to just add up

roythehandyman

21st July 2009, 12:54

I agree Roy, but setting up a static site is a little different to setting up an ecommenrce store. And have you researched the effects of whitespace, typography, information chunking, CSS, usability and acessibility, passive and active copy, funnel and converting pages and a whole lot more. Building a website is easy. Making it effective can take a lot of work. In just a couple of minutes I've spotted a whole bunch of things you could do to your site that would increase the amount of work it brings you.

And if everyone took your attitude you would be out of work. Nobody would need a handyman because they have learnt to fish for themselves.

If you goto the bottom of my index page you will see that I am too busy to take on any more work than I have already! and that has been there for months! But you make a fair point. I would like to say though, most of the work that I do for customers is because they are either to lazy, or busy to learn, to do it themselves. But the main question was: would I pay someone to build me a site:No But if I were too busy or couldnt be bothered to learn, thhen I would ask one of you guys for a price because without the internet I would have gone bust ages ago:D

khanjee

21st July 2009, 13:16

website is a way to connect people all of world

Jozo

21st July 2009, 16:36

very interesting responses

meadsy

22nd July 2009, 08:21

Hi, I've only picked up an idea of everyones responses, but I would say pay someone to build it for you. It is not so much about the build but the design. A badly designed and laid out website can be so much a turn off it is untrue.

It needs structure and to lead people in to what you want to tell them. It also shows quality and gives them confidence on your site.

As for cash flow issues, everyone get them. And if you find a designer and developer worth their salt, they will try to be as flexible as possible, either spreading payment, fixing issues for free or setting up a CMS system for you to edit your own site. And its all not as expensive as you might think.

Personally the amount of work I have done recently for clients which I haven't charged for is probably slightly on the mad side, but at the end of the day it boils down to customer service, and that is what I try to excel at as well.

Cheers
Rich

bdw

22nd July 2009, 08:48

In defence of Professional Standards...

I taught myself how to build and maintain my website, It may well be bog standard but it works and when it doesent, I can fix it.

Roy, you may have more work than you can handle but I would guess that this is more down to word of mouth than your website. In your line of work local referrals are much more important than websites but I think you will already be aware of this. Please do not take this personal but you stuck your head above the parapet and I feel entitled to comment. Your website has many errors and omissions. :( You say that you are busy so thankfully your kitchen fitting skills must be better.

I ran your home page through the W3C validator and it reports 102 errors. This is because you do not fully understand what you are doing.

With respect, it may look OK to you but to most other people it will look like what it is - a DIY website. If I was looking for a professional tradesman and I found a website like yours I would see it as someone who does not worry too much about the fine detail and who breaks many of the most basic design principles (for example three or four different fonts on your home page). Many people like me would see your website reflecting your professional standards and I am afraid that they would looking elsewhere.

I am quite handy myself and I would compare your website to the kitchen I once fitted for myself. It used the worktop joining methods you scoff at on your website but it was a good "bog standard" job. The worktops were not properly levelled and when water from the sink landed on the worktop it ran away towards the wall. I could go on about the mistakes I made but it looked OK and many well-meaning friends congratulated me on my "skills". If I had asked you for your opinion you would have had a field day but then I had the sense to keep my head down when the pros were around. ;)

Fortunately when I next replaced my kitchen I had the sense to employ a professional and I now have a proper kitchen. I am afraid that no matter how you look at it you do not have a proper website.

So this cuts both ways and getting back to your biblical quote, this is not entirely appropriate because it is evident that no one has "taught you to fish". You have tried to do it yourself.

"Have enough sense to know, ahead of time, when your skills will not extend to wallpapering."
Marilyn vos Savant

biomed86

22nd July 2009, 11:51

I built my website using Joomla and a template...so really I just figured out how to use joomla and added content. I didn't have the money at the time to hire a professional with experience. If I did have the money, I would have done so, because it would have saved me much more time and energy, and they would have done a better job :)

roythehandyman

22nd July 2009, 12:32

In defence of Professional Standards...

Roy, you may have more work than you can handle but I would guess that this is more down to word of mouth than your website. In your line of work local referrals are much more important than websites but I think you will already be aware of this. Please do not take this personal but you stuck your head above the parapet and I feel entitled to comment. Your website has many errors and omissions. :( You say that you are busy so thankfully your kitchen fitting skills must be better.

I ran your home page through the W3C validator and it reports 102 errors. This is because you do not fully understand what you are doing.

With respect, it may look OK to you but to most other people it will look like what it is - a DIY website. If I was looking for a professional tradesman and I found a website like yours I would see it as someone who does not worry too much about the fine detail and who breaks many of the most basic design principles (for example three or four different fonts on your home page). Many people like me would see your website reflecting your professional standards and I am afraid that they would looking elsewhere.

I am quite handy myself and I would compare your website to the kitchen I once fitted for myself. It used the worktop joining methods you scoff at on your website but it was a good "bog standard" job. The worktops were not properly levelled and when water from the sink landed on the worktop it ran away towards the wall. I could go on about the mistakes I made but it looked OK and many well-meaning friends congratulated me on my "skills". If I had asked you for your opinion you would have had a field day but then I had the sense to keep my head down when the pros were around. ;)

Fortunately when I next replaced my kitchen I had the sense to employ a professional and I now have a proper kitchen. I am afraid that no matter how you look at it you do not have a proper website.

So this cuts both ways and getting back to your biblical quote, this is not entirely appropriate because it is evident that no one has "taught you to fish". You have tried to do it yourself.

"Have enough sense to know, ahead of time, when your skills will not extend to wallpapering."
Marilyn vos Savant
Fantastic post:redface: Fair points made, I will reply when I have fully digested the contents. I love constructive Critisisem.

AnnaPop

22nd July 2009, 15:53

What are the business objectives of your website?

A simple static text website can be knocked up relatively easily using tools such as Sitebuilder, that a trained monkey could use. This will give you a basic internet presence, but any more complex functionality or professional looking should really be undertaken by a web developer/designer.

Define your objectives, do some cost vs benefit analysis, work out your budget then make your decision.

evil_grrrl666

22nd July 2009, 16:33

With respect, it may look OK to you but to most other people it will look like what it is - a DIY website. If I was looking for a professional tradesman and I found a website like yours I would see it as someone who does not worry too much about the fine detail and who breaks many of the most basic design principles (for example three or four different fonts on your home page). Many people like me would see your website reflecting your professional standards and I am afraid that they would looking elsewhere.

I am quite handy myself and I would compare your website to the kitchen I once fitted for myself. It used the worktop joining methods you scoff at on your website but it was a good "bog standard" job. The worktops were not properly levelled and when water from the sink landed on the worktop it ran away towards the wall. I could go on about the mistakes I made but it looked OK and many well-meaning friends congratulated me on my "skills". If I had asked you for your opinion you would have had a field day but then I had the sense to keep my head down when the pros were around. ;)

No offense, I would disagree with the above. I understand that being into web design, one will look differently at websites and criticise them more harshly (been there, done that). And having a totally professional looking website is extremely important when you are trying to sell web development services or at least related services to web designers and other web savvy people. But it is not really that vital when marketing yourself as a tradesman.

Plenty of tradesmen or other offline businesses have "DIY websites"; or worse, no website at all! This usually does not put many average prospects off (by average I mean people not into web development / design themselves). I think that for a small business / sole trader, as long as the website gives enough information and examples of previous work undertaken, it will do the job. However I would be a bit worried if a large company didn't get a professional web site done for themselves.

Also, the comparison with fitting your own kitchen does not fit in my opinion - one may be able to tell that it was a DIY job, but who would judge for instance your cooking skills, based on how well you installed your kitchen?

bdw

23rd July 2009, 10:45

No offense, I would disagree with the above. I understand that being into web design, one will look differently at websites and criticise them more harshly (been there, done that).No offense taken but this is not about being "into web design". It's about aesthetics. People do not have to be web designers to differentiate between good and bad design.

Many people use word processors nowadays and the same principles apply. When they start they almost all make the mistake of using lots of different coloured text and fonts just because they can and what the hell - they're having fun! Bad design is bad design whether it is on the web or on a piece of paper or in a choice of kitchen and I believe that most people are more discerning than you give them credit for.

You may be right in that tradesmen's websites may get away with this. Tradesmen may be perceived (rightly or wrongly) by some to have manual skills as opposed to design or written English skills. (I am a time served electrician by the way.)

Also, the comparison with fitting your own kitchen does not fit in my opinion - one may be able to tell that it was a DIY job, but who would judge for instance your cooking skills, based on how well you installed your kitchen?

I think you have missed the point. It has nothing at all to do with cooking. I was using my ability to build a kitchen as an analogy with Roy's ability to build a website.

evil_grrrl666

23rd July 2009, 12:29

No offense taken but this is not about being "into web design". It's about aesthetics. People do not have to be web designers to differentiate between good and bad design.

Many people use word processors nowadays and the same principles apply. When they start they almost all make the mistake of using lots of different coloured text and fonts just because they can and what the hell - they're having fun! Bad design is bad design whether it is on the web or on a piece of paper or in a choice of kitchen and I believe that most people are more discerning than you give them credit for.

You may be right in that tradesmen's websites may get away with this. Tradesmen may be perceived (rightly or wrongly) by some to have manual skills as opposed to design or written English skills. (I am a time served electrician by the way.)

How boring would it be if everybody had the same opinion. :) I don't think most people would really care about the design as it's not related to the services being sold, but that's just my personal opinion. Of course as mentioned previously, this would change if we're talking about a larger company.

I think you have missed the point. It has nothing at all to do with cooking. I was using my ability to build a kitchen as an analogy with Roy's ability to build a website.

Yes I realise that. My point was that simply because you cannot install a kitchen to the same standard, does not imply anything about your ability to do something completely unrelated. You could substitute cooking for any other skill if you like. :)

So if he cannot build a website to the same standard as a professional web designer does not mean he cannot install a kitchen properly.

mylee

23rd July 2009, 12:43

This is a strange question, if you get someone to build a website, don't you need to pay?

bdw

23rd July 2009, 14:29

I give up.

Jozo

23rd July 2009, 14:45

Don't give up just yet!

LandingNet

23rd July 2009, 16:10

Can't help but think this thread is going away from the original post (below). The way I read it was about paying for a website for an online business and not a brochure site for an offline business....

This question may sound a bit strange, I know.

When you started your own internet business:

Did you create your first website?

Did you get someone else to do it for you?

If somebody else would be to create your first website how much would you be prepared to pay?

If I was looking for a tradesman I would have no problem what their site was like provided it had their contact details on. However being biased I would prefer if they were all professionally built ;)

However, if you're looking to have your whole business concept online then I would throw as much cash as possible to make it look the best, work flawlessly and stand out from the rest. You wouldn't want to be sat there in the knowledge that you site is bringing in all the cash it could when it's your only source of income...

Danny@BFC

24th July 2009, 08:29

This question may sound a bit strange, I know.

When you started your own internet business:

Did you create your first website?

Did you get someone else to do it for you?

If somebody else would be to create your first website how much would you be prepared to pay?

my 2 pennies....

when I first started a few months ago, I made my own site using a basic mr site package for £20, the result wasnt great, however it did the job I wanted it to do, I wasnt trying to attract traffic to it, was just something for potential clients to get some info from before meeting me.

However...

Im now taking my product down a different route, selling direct to the public via my website (or rather will be shortly) and shows etc.

so this time I contacted all the big media studios in the s/w, average quote was about £8k for what I wanted, out of my reach.
one of them I contacted though was great, spoke to a director there, he put me in touch with one of his senior designers who is now doing everything I need in a freelance capacity, ok it might take a bit longer, but very worth it, as I get a person who has designed some fantastic sites, his wife (who is freelance and designed a lot of the T4 on the beach graphics) and all within budget.....

I just want it to hurry up and be ready!!!!!!

Cant really answer the question on how much would you pay as I think it depends entirely on what it is you need from the site.

Regards

Danny

bdw

24th July 2009, 08:43

That's the problem with going with the big media studios. They have high overheads and have to charge accordingly.

SOME ADVICE
Our standard ecommerce (online catalogue) solution is normally around £1200 but I appreciate the problems facing people who are looking for a designer. It is difficult to decide who to go with and many of them are not very transparent about their prices. You can waste time dealing with companies that are way outside your budget. Personally I can see no reason for concealing prices. We try to be as transparent as possible and when I am talking to prospective clients I always offer a typical price up front. There is no point in wasting each other's time.

For those who are considering using a web design company just make sure that they are a proper business with an address. Beware of the companies whose contact details page contains only an online form and who have no landline. They could be anywhere.

When you have narrowed the field try contacting some of the people from the websites in your candidates' portfolios. Don't ask them for testimonials because obviously they will provide only good ones. Decide yourself who you are going to approach from the companies in their portfolio. The availability of good testimonials should be one of the most important factors in your decision.

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 13:20

Firstly I apologise for taking this thread off the tracks, But after reading the all of the posts, I have come to the following conclusions, My website works well, it looks naff, it is no longer wc3 compliant due to so many quick edits, although even Google’s own search page which is almost empty has 42 errors and 2 warnings! I take on board what BDW says, I have never been taught to build a website and consequently my site contains errors and would not win any beauty prizes. I think that a badly knocked together website could have a detrimental effect on a company no matter how large or small it is. I feel that unless one is very adept at site building then he/she should pay someone to build what is after all the public face of a company. As a direct result of the input on this post I have decided to re-build a more attractive and WC3 compliant site. I have done my css and produced my new index page which I have checked and is 100% compliant. I care not that I don’t need any more work than I already have, I do care though about my image as someone that cares about the detail and design of my site. I could not blame people coming to the conclusion that my “slap dash site” in the virtual world could be indicative of the quality of the work that I produce in the real world. Right, I am off to make a post to get your views on another subject now.

RBS

26th July 2009, 16:04

Did you create your first website?

Did you get someone else to do it for you?

If somebody else would be to create your first website how much would you be prepared to pay?

No I did not. Also I dont repair my car(because I`m not mechanic), I dont fix my own teeth(I am not dentist), I dont cut my hair(I am not hairdresser). I hope you get idea :)

Yes, I got professional to do it.

Prices can be from 50£ per template to no limits, all depends what are your needs.

Website imo is VERY important, it shows your potential customers your "face". It must be good looking, easy to navigate, compatible, fast, up 24/7/365, "light".

RBS

26th July 2009, 16:08

Place of design

26th July 2009, 17:02

One more thing to add - there are quite a lot of talented european(mostly russians) freelance web designers in Europe. They do amazing sites for very good money(compared to UK). Lets say unique website design for 600-800 GBP.
To be absoloutley fair. WE ARE IN EUROPE, and there are a lot of very talented webdesigners here in the UK, who will also produce a unique design site for £600 - £800

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:12

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 17:25

To be absoloutley fair. WE ARE IN EUROPE, and there are a lot of very talented webdesigners here in the UK, who will also produce a unique design site for £600 - £800

Just a quick question, I noticed that your website is of the wordpress type and contains 63 errors. Do you think that would put off potential customers?

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 17:33

Also just noticed that one of your sites lencarta has 96 errors and two warnings!

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:36

Just a quick question, I noticed that your website is of the wordpress type and contains 63 errors. Do you think that would put off potential customers?

Why it would put off any customers if my website ir showing ok in any browser? My website works in all browsers, no visual problems.
Most of them are because of two directory listing codes which have errors in them.

Skynews website has 278 errors, so? You cannot trust 100% WC3 validator.

Place of design

26th July 2009, 17:39

So far I have seen at least double prices for some quite basic few page websites. I meant eastern european designers. Dont try to tell me that UK prices are similar to eastern European ones :) UK web designers charge A LOT.
A lot compared to what? The cost of shopfititng a real shop? a lot compared to earning the national average wage? A lot compared to a years yellow pages advert?

It does grate a bit when people that are quite happy to charge ful rate for what ever it is they do, immediatally think that webdesigners erarn a lot for doing very little, and then assume that they know how better

If we focus on e-commerce, I think part of the issue is that people who are inexperienced in retial, and in experienced in owning a business, and inexperienced in online retial are too fast to pre-judge the worth of a webdesigner, and then go ahead and make the most basic mistakes time and time again. 3 months later they are then wondering "how to increase trafic" or asking "why is my site underperforming"

Yes you can go to Eastern Europe and get a cheaper designer.. but that is a myopic point of view. I have a Chienese customer who did just that - went to China for site development, and despite understanding chienese, failed to really get a site that worked. In the end they wasted that money, and still had to invest in the UK, with a designer who IS on the end of the phone etc etc.

The value of a good UK designer, who is there for you, almost like part of your team, who has business nonce, and retial experience. A designer who can react with your business, and input things intellegently, can not be underestimated

Queeniee

26th July 2009, 17:46

It happens to all of us. :D
:|
Hi my names Kate! nice to meet you. I'm a very new user to this site, and even a computer. At the minute I'm a hair Extensionist, but just having a baby. I have come out of work for the minute.

At first I started looking on ebay for bargains, but then I thought that I would have a go at making some money from an Ebay business myself...
But the thing is when I first opened my Ebay account I was just selling things that I didn't want anymore. Mostly baby clothes, baby accessories ect ect..
But now well about a month ago, I opened another account for the hair extensions, and that type of market, everything you need to have extensions, tools for it ect, But because I don't have any feedback well I have 5 feedbacks at the moment. But those were not for me selling the hair that I had bought, it was for things I had bought!!. I bought some stock, and it is just not selling on that user name. ( I have 2 one that I first ever opened for all the baby clothes and stuff like that. But the new one that I opened for the hair business just has left me with hefty bills for ebay fees.) I was wondering wether the best idea would be to sell the hair and the baby clothes on the same user name, but would that be a bad idea. I though maybe because it had loads of feedback that it would sell. But I want to make it a business. Have a website and an ebay business, have them both together, but I don't have a clue with computers and how to set up a website. What do you think would be a good idea for me to do. ( I have only just today registered on here!) I hope you could give me some advice...maybe...I would be so appriciative of this if you could. Or if not do you know anyone on here who could give me advice. I've just started this venture but so badly want to make it work, and be a sucess.

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:47

A lot compared to what? The cost of shopfititng a real shop? a lot compared to earning the national average wage? A lot compared to a years yellow pages advert?

A lot just comparing their hourly charge with UK charge. US is even more expensive(around 250usd/h), but does it mean they are better? No. So you cannot say UK designers are definitely worth the money because they got local phone number. Maybe you can even find some in India who will do 1/5 of price, just because its their local charge per job.

...immediatally think that webdesigners erarn a lot for doing very little

I didnt say that. Its a profession and must be learned for years. Must be talented. But when you do get your foot on, its not hard for somebody who does it every day for years.

Lets end this discussion :cool:

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 17:48

Why it would put off any customers if my website ir showing ok in any browser? My website works in all browsers, no visual problems.
Most of them are because of two directory listing codes which have errors in them.

Skynews website has 278 errors, so? You cannot trust 100% WC3 validator.

So trust skynews code writers over WC3 ?

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:50

:|
Hi my names Kate! nice to meet you.

I think there is nothing wrong with selling them together via one ebay account.

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:51

So trust skynews code writers over WC3 ?

Its up to you who do you want to trust. Who do you trust?:)

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 17:54

:|
Hi my names Kate! nice to meet you. I'm a very new user to this site, and even a computer. At the minute I'm a hair Extensionist, but just having a baby. I have come out of work for the minute.

At first I started looking on ebay for bargains, but then I thought that I would have a go at making some money from an Ebay business myself...
But the thing is when I first opened my Ebay account I was just selling things that I didn't want anymore. Mostly baby clothes, baby accessories ect ect..
But now well about a month ago, I opened another account for the hair extensions, and that type of market, everything you need to have extensions, tools for it ect, But because I don't have any feedback well I have 5 feedbacks at the moment. But those were not for me selling the hair that I had bought, it was for things I had bought!!. I bought some stock, and it is just not selling on that user name. ( I have 2 one that I first ever opened for all the baby clothes and stuff like that. But the new one that I opened for the hair business just has left me with hefty bills for ebay fees.) I was wondering wether the best idea would be to sell the hair and the baby clothes on the same user name, but would that be a bad idea. I though maybe because it had loads of feedback that it would sell. But I want to make it a business. Have a website and an ebay business, have them both together, but I don't have a clue with computers and how to set up a website. What do you think would be a good idea for me to do. ( I have only just today registered on here!) I hope you could give me some advice...maybe...I would be so appriciative of this if you could. Or if not do you know anyone on here who could give me advice. I've just started this venture but so badly want to make it work, and be a sucess.

I have made a purchase of a steam shower from someone that also sells car parts! it matters not what they sell, it matters that they have positive feedback. Stick at it and build up feedback.

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 17:55

P.s Tesco sell washing macines and they also sell paracetamol!

RBS

26th July 2009, 17:57

Yep. People look for good feedback. As more feedback you get, more confident people will be to buy from you.

Queeniee

26th July 2009, 18:11

I have made a purchase of a steam shower from someone that also sells car parts! it matters not what they sell, it matters that they have positive feedback. Stick at it and build up feedback.

Yes your right I suppose, But the thing was that I wanted to open my own website for the hair extensions aswell. But first I need to sell the first stock before I can open a website. I'm right at the very begining of my venture!!!!I've only bought my first lot of stock. And it's not shifting on the account with 5 positive feedbacks, But I thought that maybe I should put it on my other account that has nearly 200 positives...but it is known for baby clothes and baby toys do you think it is a good idea to put all that together. Do you think it shows people that I'm a jack of all trades....

Place of design

26th July 2009, 18:12

P.s Tesco sell washing macines and they also sell paracetamol!

I know. Going completly off subject here
It really upsets me that the supermarkets have decimated the small specialist retial shops (bakers, butchers, opticians, fishmongers, little washing mashine shops, chemists etc.. )

It really winds me up even more now that one of them says in their adverts "you deserve bread baked in the morning, and fish prepared by a fishmonger, and met prepared by an expert butcher" etc. etc.

Its like saying, we have ripped th heart out of your community, but now we feel you deserve it back, but only if you come to us. It wouldnt be so bad, bu the "fishmonger" in my supermarket cant fillet a fish to save his life. They are so bad at doing it I do it myself

On this issue, I am with you - that is the teach a guy how to do something, and he can feed himself philosophy. On the other hand, one shouldt undermine the reason for a professional (whatever profession) for being there in the first place

For what ever reason, in the UK, we have sleeptwalked into a place where we dont value, trust or respect anyone anymore, which is a damm shame

RBS

26th July 2009, 18:14

Yes your right I suppose, But the thing was that I wanted to open my own website for the hair extensions aswell. But first I need to sell the first stock before I can open a website. I'm right at the very begining of my venture!!!!I've only bought my first lot of stock. And it's not shifting on the account with 5 positive feedbacks, But I thought that maybe I should put it on my other account that has nearly 200 positives...but it is known for baby clothes and baby toys do you think it is a good idea to put all that together. Do you think it shows people that I'm a jack of all trades....

Maybe your prices are not good enought? Thats why people dont buy? Have you listed them ir correct categories? Have you written proper, attractive product description?
I do think you should put them on other account with 200 feedback, at least for a start.
Dont worry - there are people on ebay selling hundreds of completely different products.

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 18:19

I know. Going completly off subject here
It really upsets me that the supermarkets have decimated the small specialist retial shops (bakers, butchers, opticians, fishmongers, little washing mashine shops, chemists etc.. )

It really winds me up even more now that one of them says in their adverts "you deserve bread baked in the morning, and fish prepared by a fishmonger, and met prepared by an expert butcher" etc. etc.

Its like saying, we have ripped th heart out of your community, but now we feel you deserve it back, but only if you come to us. It wouldnt be so bad, bu the "fishmonger" in my supermarket cant fillet a fish to save his life. They are so bad at doing it I do it myself

On this issue, I am with you - that is the teach a guy how to do
something, and he can feed himself philosophy. On the other hand, one shouldt undermine the reason for a professional (whatever profession) for being there in the first place

For what ever reason, in the UK, we have sleeptwalked into a place where we dont value, trust or respect anyone anymore, which is a damm shame

Here, here. I used to have a small milkround that I used to do before going to work. Suprmarkets killed my little business, and then when It was dead, the jacked up the price of milk. remember the 10p loaf ? that dissapeared as soon as they killed the baker ( businesses that is).

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 18:21

Yes your right I suppose, But the thing was that I wanted to open my own website for the hair extensions aswell. But first I need to sell the first stock before I can open a website. I'm right at the very begining of my venture!!!!I've only bought my first lot of stock. And it's not shifting on the account with 5 positive feedbacks, But I thought that maybe I should put it on my other account that has nearly 200 positives...but it is known for baby clothes and baby toys do you think it is a good idea to put all that together. Do you think it shows people that I'm a jack of all trades....

I AM, A JACK OF ALL TRADES, There is nothing wrong with being clever:D

RBS

26th July 2009, 18:22

Do you think its THAT bad? You still get british butcher shops around towns, you still get that small milk machine delivering milk to your doorstep, you still got tasty GREGGS and other bakeries.

Yes, supermarkets have taken some part of it, but there will be some % of people who keep to traditions.

roythehandyman

26th July 2009, 18:24

bdw

26th July 2009, 20:09

We really have wandered so far off topic here. Perhaps someone can tell me what the price of a pint of milk has to do with web design? :|

JDX_John

27th July 2009, 13:13

These days, I'd agree you can't get a decent site up without knowing web-dev skills. A few years ago, before sites were so complex, you could get away with it - many companies had really bad sites (no argument there) but this was considered quite normal.

Actually, I reckon you can still get a nice site up without an expert... but only if you're happy with a totally static site - HTML pages like we had 10 years ago. The moment you want anything fancy you're screwed and need a professional.

upnorthal

28th July 2009, 07:56

I can see the benefit of paying someone to create a website if you are not up to scratch with html etc, so long as the price is sensible. I suppose it depends on what your business is about.

I don't see the problem with using something like Joomla and tweaking an existing template. I can assure you the majority of paying customers (if you are an etailer) will not give a flying monkeys whether your site conceptually looks similar to another (despite what a webdesigner may tell you).

Just remember not to lose track with reality. There is more to running a business than having a 'pretty' website and over emphasis on the spin that is SEO.

There are some truley awful sites in my opinion (owned by some of the major big bands). What is it with Flash and some corporates? There is nothing guarenteed to make me hit the back button faster than a site with a flash opening. I just can't stand it.

Personally, I will be building my own site.

LeanneH

28th July 2009, 08:47

I paid to have my website created, it saves loads of time and hassle!

bdw

28th July 2009, 09:11

over emphasis on the spin that is SEO.

SEO is most certainly not spin. I built my business on SEO and I have been in the top ten results in Google on a search for "web design UK" for years. That is the only advertising I do and apart from my own time it is free.

SEO gives me my livelihood so spin it is not.

upnorthal

28th July 2009, 09:16

I believe SEO in context is quite valid. I don't doubt the it is essential to *some* businesses.

However, I don't believe it is critical to all.

bdw

28th July 2009, 09:32

Of course it's not but neither is it spin.

I can see the benefit of paying someone to create a website if you are not up to scratch with html etc, so long as the price is sensible.

And how many lay people do you think are up to scratch with HTML? Clearly if you are up to scratch with HTML you already know quite a bit about web design and in that case you should consider building your own website (assuming that you have the time). However wasn't this discussion about people who did not have prior knowledge?

roythehandyman

28th July 2009, 12:10

Of course it's not but neither is it spin.

And how many lay people do you think are up to scratch with HTML? Clearly if you are up to scratch with HTML you already know quite a bit about web design and in that case you should consider building your own website (assuming that you have the time). However wasn't this discussion about people who did not have prior knowledge?

Your site looks nothing special, But I just have to keep going back to it. Place of design has a site that is also a mine of information. I have even bookedmarked the damn things. It's two of the best sources of web building information that I have ever come across.

But may I just say that I have come to the conclusion that being able to handle HTML appears to have gone the same way as being able to use a p.c without a mouse. I still use a few strokes of the keyboard to do what I could just as easy do with a mouse. With so many page spewing software programs that are available now, it is just as easy to use one of them to do the work, and then just tweek it a bit here and there with notepad.

Do you think there is anyone still out there that creates a site using only notepad? maybe if someone was a bit short of funds, he/she could turn out a site using what is available and then hand the results over to someone like you to tart it up, and do a bit of seo on it for them at a cheaper rate ? It's just an idea, ( to be perfectly honest I am thinking of doing just that with my re-build :redface:) After all, I often take on projects and only do the parts that the customer can't handle.

prizeauc

28th July 2009, 12:27

Ah...thts not an awesome idea to sell a prepared websites.

roythehandyman

28th July 2009, 12:32

Ah...thts not an awesome idea to sell a prepared websites.

I don't sell websites, I am in the property maintenence business. My point was, Some people can make their own site but will need someone with more experience to complete it and tart it up. That would surely make the finished product a tad cheaper.

roythehandyman

28th July 2009, 12:37

Wooops, bdw's website just gave me the answer to my suggestion. I suppose he is correct. Back to the drawing board:(

bdw

28th July 2009, 16:30

Your site looks nothing special, But I just have to keep going back to it. Place of design has a site that is also a mine of information. I have even bookedmarked the damn things. It's two of the best sources of web building information that I have ever come across.
Hi Roy, I am not sure whether this is compliment or not.:| But with regard to how our website looks, this is not a problem. It's appearance is not designed to impress people. It is also heavily optimised to be found on the search engines because our business is business websites. I leave the flash, bells and whistles (and talking puppets:p) to the clever kids.

Wooops, bdw's website just gave me the answer to my suggestion.
Yes, as it says on our website, taking on 90% completed jobs for £50 is not a good business idea. We cannot survive on that and I need food and beer money. :D

Having said that, we get regular enquiries from people who try to build their own websites and eshops and get stuck at the last hurdle. They call us up and expect us to drop everything to fix the problems they have created. We used to do this but stopped it a couple of years ago.

roythehandyman

28th July 2009, 16:40

Hi Roy, I am not sure whether this is compliment or not.:| But with regard to how our website looks, this is not a problem. It's appearance is not designed to impress people. It is also heavily optimised to be found on the search engines because our business is business websites. I leave the flash, bells and whistles (and talking puppets:p) to the clever kids.

.

It was a compliment of the highest order. You have proved that "less is more" Your site should be required reading for all web site building wanabees.:)