Why do i get ignored? [Archive] - UK Business Forums

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jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 12:57

Hi guys,

Im 19 years old and have numerous business ideas, all fully branded and financially viable services or products.

Now i am starting to introduce my companies to their target audience (specifically nightclub managers) and trying to sell them my products and services.

The problem i am faced with is that although my services cost the nightclubs nothing and is a completely risk free source of revenue for them, they can hear how old i sound and will never take me seriously.

Any tips on how to get the older generation of the business world to listen?

GRDCredit

13th July 2009, 12:58

Who said that?

32cardinalpoints

13th July 2009, 13:01

Maybe you should ask your dad or someone who sounds alot older than you over the phone to market your products or services to the nightclubs.

GRDCredit

13th July 2009, 13:06

Sorry!

You probably now deserve a serious reply!

To be completely honest I find it unlikely that any business would 'ignore' you purely on how you sound.

Are you sure that this is the reason you are not making progress? Could it just be that for whatever reason they do not like the product?

Just because it is no cost to them and a risk free source of revenue does not mean they will be beating your door down.

Persevere or, if you think it really is down to how you sound, pay a tele-marketing firm to make appointments for you

Geoff

Hi guys,

Im 19 years old and have numerous business ideas, all fully branded and financially viable services or products.

Now i am starting to introduce my companies to their target audience (specifically nightclub managers) and trying to sell them my products and services.

The problem i am faced with is that although my services cost the nightclubs nothing and is a completely risk free source of revenue for them, they can hear how old i sound and will never take me seriously.

Any tips on how to get the older generation of the business world to listen?

A Charles

13th July 2009, 13:16

Hi I know what it's like presenting business ideas from a young age. I'm currently 23 but I’ve been working to develop various serious business projects since i was 16/17.

The method I’ve adopted is to do a test cold-call with a sales friend of mine so i can analyse my diction/tone/syntax. I would also, wherever possible, go and visit the bars/clubs in person (dressed very smartly). Take business cards, make sure you know your market/product and be very polite (shake hands) and believe in yourself.

I really don't think age is a problem - but it might mean you have to adapt your sales strategy.

Hope that helps.

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 13:20

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 13:25

Thanks Charles, i do adopt the habit of going to see my clients when possible, and you are right they do take you a lot more seriously.

Dressing smartly makes such an impact aswell.

I get so frustrated with fat cats that simply look down on young entrepreneurs sometimes i feel we don't stand a chance.

Shaun_Pearce

13th July 2009, 13:32

Do you have a budget for marketing? If so I'd consider outsourcing this task to a professional who can not only sell your product/service but they will sell you along with it. I can recommend a few.

There is the cheaper option which is to do it yourself but what you may find is that you will exhaust the prospects in the local area if you continue to approach these people the way you are.

Take it on the chin at this point, what you must be doing isn't working for you, your business or your prospective clients. In my opinion you could do with some help with your marketing strategy. I have a great contact - Anita Hodgkinson who would really pave the way for you. After working with someone like Anita you may find the obvious route for markting your business!

I can offer advice but it will be your decision as to what you would like to do in the end. PM me if you would like me to point you in the direction of some very handy and experienced people.

All the best and dont forget - DON'T GIVE UP!

AshSmith

13th July 2009, 13:40

The other problem is making sure you get to the exact right person - often the owner or franchise holder.

We find we often do our pitch to duty managers, or even PAs and often get a No from people who would not have been able to say Yes anyway.

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 13:48

This is true, and finding a warm link into a big chain company or even a direct address or phone number to the top is a mission in itself.

Scott-CopyandDesign

13th July 2009, 13:48

I have contemplated the fact that it could be the service that they don't want.

But i know that what i am doing is a more efficient way of providing an already existing service, and therefore it is down to the club managers arrogance to dismiss the idea.

I think it is the case that some people cant accept things that they think are too good to be true.

Well you cannot berate them for not being aware of this. The whole point of good sales copy and a good sales pitch is to make them aware of your services benefits, why they should buy it from you and how it isn't too good to be true.

This isn't easy, so you must cultivate the right sales pitch. Do some research and find out exactly WHY they aren't interested and are having doubts. Unless you successfully sell to every person you approach, there will still be questions in the prospects mind which you are not answering.

CKG

13th July 2009, 14:02

But i know that what i am doing is a more efficient way of providing an already existing service, and therefore it is down to the club managers arrogance to dismiss the idea.

There's your problem right there.

It's quite common for people to shift blame around to avoid having to face up to their failings.

The managers aren't arrogant (well, some may be but not all are)

19 years old isn't young. Most of the on site management I deal with in the night club world aren't much older than you.

If you have a great product or service that is free of charge then it can only be your approach and attitude that need tweeking.

GRDCredit

13th July 2009, 14:05

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :)

Shaun_Pearce

13th July 2009, 14:17

All you reading here is constructive criticism.

Scott-copyandDesign & CKG are bang on the money here. It seems to be an issue with the way you put information across. We all fall victim to our own misunderstanding of words sometimes.

I have some great material you can have which will help you improve your communication and sales technique.

"People who are poor listeners will find few who are willing to come to them with useful information."

What is the product/service you are selling?

ADW

13th July 2009, 14:18

Sometimes you find people are to lazy to take the time to understand the offer. Many employees find/believe they already have a full workload without having to look into additional offerings. It's not easy to get noticed no matter who you are. I often find it's easier to deal with the bigger chains as they have specific people to who look after individual areas.

Have you made up a presentation pack that can be left with the client? This I often find to be of benefit to either leave with the potential client or send through in the first instance before following up.

How strong are the benefits of your offer and are you getting over the key points. This is essential if it is an existing service already provided.

Which area of business are you looking at with the nightclubs. I used to deal with a few chains in the past and also had contact information for the Hotel industry. Don't have it to hand but might be able to find it somewhere.

Cornish Steve

13th July 2009, 14:30

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 14:39

All these points are so valid! Its amazing to see so much support at the point i was about to give in.

I am offering a very cost effective, user friendly, automated Guestlist and VIP service.

I would be interested in speaking to anybody who has contacts within the club world (large chains or privately owned) to converse about their previous experiences and to see whether you think the idea is viable for the specific sector.

OldWelshGuy

13th July 2009, 14:40

In sales (as in relationships), it is common to carry the baggage from the last relationship (cold call/contact), into the next. I know what you are going through, and from the start it seemed to me as if it could be yourself that is the problem (no offence meant, but you asked for input :) )

realistically we would need to see /hear your pitch, as without it we are guessing.

The procedure in a call like this should ideally be to qualify the call (make sure you are talking to the right person), get a positive reply to your first question, then quickle run through AIDA, woith a close at the end.

It could be you are telling not selling, it could be that the presentation isn't hitting the hotspots, it could be you are alienating the prospect with what might come over as arrogance. e.g. I have a great product that is a complete no brainer, all the stupid people are doing x.y & z, but the smart people are switching to our system. Without realising it, if the person you ae speaking to is the person who put in place x,y & z, you have just insulted them, and they are completly unlikely to amit they made a mistake, so just say no.

Do you have a brief pitch you can throw at us?

An Oasis

13th July 2009, 14:44

...Any tips on how to get the older generation of the business world to listen?

Flip it, so they come to you!

1. If your product/service are good enough, that's all it takes
2. Knock up a good website
3. Get it ranking
4. ...enquiries come in, hard part of sales done
5. test You at this stage, if there are too many knock backs, hire someone to do the sales part for you

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 14:56

I haven't got a written script for a pitch, usually when i do that i end up fumbling sentences and sounding worse than when i wing it with a brief outline.

Usually i say,

Hi my name is Luke Jackson from a company called textahead

We have developed and offer a very user friendly automated vip and guestlist service.

We aim to increase revenue for your club whilst making guestlist simple and efficient for your customers.

It would be great if we could come and show you how the service works so that we could evaluate how textahead could work with your business.

We offer a 30 day trial, with a money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with any aspect of the service.

GRDCredit

13th July 2009, 14:59

We offer a 30 day trial, with a money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with any aspect of the service.

The problem i am faced with is that although my services cost the nightclubs nothing

Why are you offering a money back guarantee if there is no cost to the business?

ADW

13th July 2009, 15:05

I was about to ask the same question.

Scott-CopyandDesign

13th July 2009, 15:09

There are several possible reasons:

- You have a solution when there's no problem
- You haven't put together a solid business case and it's obvious
- You have an image problem (e.g., dressing professionally)
- Your potential customers are unsure of your long-term viability as a company
- You haven't spoken with the decision-makers
- You don't fully understand your customers' business

Other than the issue of inexperience, I doubt that age comes into it that much.

Steve is right. If there isn't a problem you have to create one in your pitch.

Lets take an example of efficiency and speed. Your service might increase efficiency so much that the current level of efficiency they have is actually a problem. Then your service strolls along and problem solved.

Many 'problems' are subjective and are based on comparisons to what is available. Not enough speed, not enough income etc can all be looked at from the perspective of a problem which you can solve.

jacksondaviesco

13th July 2009, 15:11

There is an initial £100 deposit fee for the service (this is to cover the cost of equipment and the processing)

This deposit will be fully refunded IF they do not carry on using the service.

I can see how those two points contradict each other but i have found that if i offer a service for free, people are even more likely to find think it suspicious and say no. On the other hand people dont like parting with money upfront.

So i concluded a 100 pound deposit which they could have back at any time

Shaun_Pearce

13th July 2009, 15:22

Steve is right. If there isn't a problem you have to create one in your pitch.

Lets take an example of efficiency and speed. Your service might increase efficiency so much that the current level of efficiency they have is actually a problem. Then your service strolls along and problem solved.

Many 'problems' are subjective and are based on comparisons to what is available. Not enough speed, not enough income etc can all be looked at from the perspective of a problem which you can solve.

I agree with every word. I'm reading what you are writing Luke but I'm not feeling "the hook". "The hook" is the point of interest for the client. As you can appreciate these people are going to get a lot of sales calls on many different subjects of the business during each day. The guestlist is obviously very important but to the person you are speaking to they may not 100% consider that fact.

I'd be looking at what your USP is right now and develope a pitch that would create the conditions for the prospective client to require your service. It doesn't sound to me that you need to work on much but what you need to work on needs a lot of thought..

I'm hearing your pitch and the thing that stuck in my head as I was reading was the company name. You lost more the more you wrote because I'm still trying to suss out what Textahead would reprisent.

Keep prodding away with questions mate you will get the answers you are looking for - DON'T GIVE UP!

Deliberator

13th July 2009, 15:57

Hi my name is Luke Jackson from a company called textahead

We have developed and offer a very user friendly automated vip and guestlist service.

We aim to increase revenue for your club whilst making guestlist simple and efficient for your customers.

It would be great if we could come and show you how the service works so that we could evaluate how textahead could work with your business.

We offer a 30 day trial, with a money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with any aspect of the service.

All too often, we get calls from people trying to sell us something without knowing who they are talking to ! They try to sell a product / service when they don't know if there is even a need / want for that product / service !

So, as I'm sure you already do, ask for the name of the decision maker and speak to them. When you do speak to them, introduce yourself and identify if they use such a service. If they do, ask them how they feel it could be improved. If they don't ask them why they don't. These two little questions may help you out a little !

Good luck

gogul2k

13th July 2009, 17:05

Learning to read body language is a very powerful aid in business, especially when it comes to sales.

This can give you an idea of how the other person is responding to your pitch and what you need to do to adjust their opinion.

Scott-CopyandDesign

13th July 2009, 17:06

SneakSMS

13th July 2009, 17:51

From having quite a lot of experience working in bars/clubs a few years back, and having a couple of managers as mates, I am not sure it is the clubs you should be targeting.

I think the majority of people on guestlists to clubs are put there by promoters who take a cut for the amount of people who attend, and not by the club itself.

Wouldn't you be better targeting them?

Every 19 year old has a mate who's a "promoter", try to get over their head to the company they work for and target them, there's loads of them about. Party planners and the likes, the sort who advertise that they will get you guestlist for any club etc.

http://www.guestlist.me.uk
http://www.londonclubsguestlist.com/

Above are examples from google

Shaun_Pearce

13th July 2009, 20:25

eventdomain

13th July 2009, 22:05

I think the majority of people on guestlists to clubs are put there by promoters who take a cut for the amount of people who attend

That applies for countries like Spain, NOT the UK nightclub industry. I used to work for a Nightclub/Venue and know exactly how these clubs market themselves.

jacksondaviesco (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=51529) http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

I don't know what your service is but Booking sites/services aren't used for Clubs for 2 main reasons:

1. The clubs have their own methods of promotion
2. Any website invented is tricky to get right, the clubs already hold that data for their locality anyway - so offering what they already have is pointless - unless it can be done on a massive scale.....

For instance the club where I worked, used to collect club membership info, and send out direct mailings on member's birthdays offering them discounts on drink and entry fees - thus we already had a good database solution. Any website entering this guestbook market would fail at the first hurdle - eg: the need for the sale......

Also as Managers, we used to get many 'reps' all the time trying to sell to us/get past us, and that failed as their seen as a pain or distraction from us running the club. Also, the club 'owners' aren't in the club a lot of the time, their away at business meetings, the cash and carry, or marketing the club - basically their out of the office so contacting them is very tough.

Personally, I don't think booking services are required as people tend to ring the clubs direct if necessary (we used to get these calls in late evening eg: 6pm etc.

Guestlists for clubs aren't needed, I mean I don't believe clubs have them, as clubbers just turn up on the night. There's only really 2 main days eg:
Fri/Sat and people always pay on the door, so they don't usually book for anything.

Sorry for putting a downer on your idea, but sometimes you need industry knowledge for such a website, and with the crazy amount of nightclub guides, directories, clubbing websites etc already, the market is saturated to the point of bursting and I guess the clubs themselves get annoyed about 'yet another' sales call......

Ok, to invent a service, you must be aware of the industry you're targeting, preferably 'expert knowledge'. Take the Nightclub industry, it has the following areas or needs:

Drink
Members
Venue Hire
Staff

(and that's just off the top of my head), my point is to target those areas for an idea, just be aware that most of the above are served well enough, so how to beat them - assuming you have such a service solution :)

And if it were that easy, trust me, I or other ex-nightclub staff would have thought of it first :D

Good luck with it :)

JADEMEDIA

14th July 2009, 00:34

Ten years ago I did some PR work for an entrepreneur that wanted to bring out a VIP 'Clubbers' card that would be accepatble by any participating club. First stop. Made an appointment with a night club owner and asked the simple question would it work. The answer NO.

The reason these guys have their own network and to join it all you need is for one of them to give you his personal business card. Now I have to say I traded on the card that I was given for years. No queing at the door like the rest of the punters. It was straight up to the doorman flash the card and in. I am afradid the VIP idea then is a no-no.

I can however see the attractions of a Textahead service which I presume could be used for all sorts of promotions like a text saying "don't forget half price drinks until 10 tonite".

There are several major drawbacks that I can see however. (1) I presume that as this service is free to club owners it is a premium rate text. That being the case the punter would end up paying and the club would have the hassle of making that clear. (2) If clubbers these days have any cash these days the club owners want it going through their till and not into some-one elses pocket.

(3) and perjhaps most important of all. Clubs - Pubs and even even Wine bars in the suburbs these days have ' Snatch Squards' where for the price of a free drink a few bubbly clubgoers will tour local bars etc and tell everyone there is going to be a real party nite at X Club and it is surprising how well this works.

The question the OP ought to ask then does a bland text costing the punter a £1 or more really compare with a few pretty girls grabbing a blokes arm and marching him and his mates down to the club and from then on its a merrygoround. The girls pull in the guys. The more guys the more girls.

The bottom line OP is that if age does play a part in all this it is that you still have to learn a bit more about life itself particularly when trying to exploit a lifestyle industry.

BronwynDurand

14th July 2009, 15:49

You have been given some pretty good feedback in previous posts. The trouble with entrepreneurial ideas is that the often won't work. Sometimes even if you have all the boxes ticked the timing can be all wrong, and that can be enough to make it a non-starter.

That does not mean you should give up. If you apply all the suggestions in the previous posts and still believe that your idea is a good one, then don't give up. What you need to consider is that maybe changing your idea slightly might better suit what clubs actually need. A sure-fire way to inspire your thinking would be to get a meeting with a proper decision maker and ask them what a) they think of your idea and b) what do they actually want that will make their lives easier?

Another angle to consider is what will actually be useful to people going to clubs. If you find something that is a winning combination of appealing to the club's customer (they can use it as a selling point) as well as potentially making more money for the club (or other kinds of value - like free advertising or marketing), AND something that you can turn into a profitable venture for you, then I think you will find someone will talk to you. It can be hardest to get the first couple of customers, after that, you will know more and be able to polish your technique.

Hopefully this is the start of many ideas for you, I don't believe anyone will turn down a well presented useful idea from a 19 year old.

Good luck!

(I'm an on-demand marketer for new and small businesses)

eventdomain

15th July 2009, 14:06

still believe that your idea is a good one, then don't give up.

hmmmm, I don't think his idea is that good, I feel he's seen an opportunity, but lacks the great idea to make it reality. Unfortunately it's the idea that is required and without a good one, you have nothing to work with.

I've been there myself (years ago), invented something targeted what looks to be an 'easy' industry, then in a rush to get something going, I got the idea totally wrong and I feel this is what the OP has done. I see this all the time, some kid wants to be rich, and so invents anything that sounds cool, sees (£) pound signs, then goes mad! Very easy to do, and a fatal business mistake - why o why, do people do these crazy things, when what they should be doing is creating ideas that solve big problems, now that's a newsworthy story! If a web idea can solve an important problem, then it may turn into something and thus be more easily marketable.....

I don't know what your text service does, so can't advise. But lets say you have found someway of offering discounts via text, that you charge the club owner a fee, so basically you're offering advertising via mobile.

The competition in this area is huge and no sole trader can compete, unless its specialised, but even then, the service is wrong and thus won't get any takers. This could work, but would need to be part of another nightclub website idea which I doubt you have at your disposal, so it's pretty unworkable at the moment.

I suggest you put it on hold until you get a partner or investor involved.

This idea needs another website idea for it to work. It won't work on it's own.

businessbenefits

16th July 2009, 07:25

Appearance and good products are vital