AAT course

[qrius]

Hello there

I've been looking to study an AAT course. I'm wondering if any of you did this, and whether you can shed light on career or job success at the very least with such a qualification?

Many thanks.

[Jenni384]

Hi
I'm AAT and I would highly recommend it. It's a very good all round qualification that stands alone in its own right for accountancy, tax and bookkeeping. it will also exempt you from lower levels of Chartered quals if that's the way you want to go.

My aim was always to work for myself, so I can't comment on how it will affect your career prospects but my impression is that it's highly regarded, but lower paid than chartered.

[Bookkeeping Express]

I can recommend it too, its very well thought of and you can open your own practice with it too without going any further. Its not as highly paid as ACCA or CIMA but you have to think what you want to do with your qualification. I only intend doing AAT, I already have ICB and I really don't want to get involved in the complexities of company mergers!!

[qrius]

Thanks Jenni.

Will employee prospects strengthen after having done this course?

And is chartered accountancy even an option under AAT?

[Jenni384]

As to your first question, I don't know, but I would presume so.

2nd, the two are different. The AAT is a qualification in its own right. So are the various chartered ones. If you are AAT qualified you can get exemptions for some of the chartered courses, if you decided to take another qualification after AAT.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hello there

I've been looking to study an AAT course. I'm wondering if any of you did this, and whether you can shed light on career or job success at the very least with such a qualification?

Many thanks.

I did, many years ago, and highly rate the qualification. It opens many doors.

Now as a Chartered Certified Accountant with my own practice I have a very high regard for the qualification and when I am seeking new staff its a qualification I like staff to have, and will support them to obtain if they havent got it.

[DVWooly]

AAT does not mean you are an accountant.

It means you can then go on to do the ACCA which is a "proper" accountant.

You cant do the ACA though.

As an AAT you would expect a small salary but if you move onto the next level the possibilities are endless.

Worth a try if you cant get a degree.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

AAT does not mean you are an accountant.



As anyone (and I mean anyone) can call themselves an accountant - I do not see this statement as being correct and I think Jenni will have something to say about this :eek::eek::eek:

[MyAccountantOnline]

AAT does not mean you are an accountant.

It means you can then go on to do the ACCA which is a "proper" accountant.

You cant do the ACA though.

As an AAT you would expect a small salary but if you move onto the next level the possibilities are endless.

Worth a try if you cant get a degree.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a proper accountant as (sadly) anyone can call themselves an accountant and I think your comments greatly devalue the AAT qualification.

You are not correct to state that you cant 'do the ACA' - the AAT offers a fast track route to the Chartered qualifications. To quote from the AAT website -

the AAT offers members generous exemptions. ICAEW, CIPFA and ICAS all offer specific fast-track routes to AAT members.

I also disagree strongly about salary expectations.

The AAT offers a highly respected standalone qualification or one which offers a route to continued Chartered studies.

[Jenni384]

Funnily enough, yes, I have something to say!!
Just because neither of the 'A's in AAT stand for Accountant, it doesn't mean we aren't accountants. There are plenty of AAT qualified accountants in practice. I get the impression AATs tend to have somewhat of a junior role in employment, but us Members in Practice are "proper" accountants up and down the country.

Try telling the FMAAT who's been in business for 15 years, has a thriving practice with a few offices and partners that he's not an accountant. I think he might have something to say about it too!

:)

[helen0722]

Hello there

I've been looking to study an AAT course. I'm wondering if any of you did this, and whether you can shed light on career or job success at the very least with such a qualification?

Many thanks.

I believe a course alone will not give you the full qualification you need, try to do some voluntary work in the fields you want to get into just to familiarize yourself and also get the feel of being able to communicated with with people in a business environment etc, i have done many courses before and work in an office environment for many number of years i can tell you there is a very big different between the two, courses doesn't cover everything.

hope this helps


helen:)

[DVWooly]

so if i do a law degree am i a Lawyer? .... no

doesnt AAT stand for ....... Association of Accounting Technician's ??

This means you are not an accountant.

Therefore, surely, a "proper" accountant has to be chartered.

An AAT is merely a stepping stone towards this.

And as an AAT you cant expect more than £15,000 as a starting salary?

Sorry to upset a few people but these are the facts.

[DVWooly]

i must add my apologies for saying you cant do "ACA", i was incorrect. :(

[Zeno]

God save me from myself but I think I can see where Wooly is coming from.

My understanding is that AAT is marketed as an entry level qualification to those looking to work in accountancy. I also believe that it stops short of describing its members as "accountants" but technicians.

In the vast majority of practices there are the accountants who are members of the chartered institutes and the technicians who may be AAT/ATT. My experience is the technicians are not regarded as fully qualified and are rarely paid as such.

Now, before Jenni tears me a new arse, I am not suggesting that she or any other ATTs are not qualified or should not practice. I will say that they would appear to be the exception though.

[elainec100@cheapaccounting]

so if i do a law degree am i a Lawyer? .... no

doesnt AAT stand for ....... Association of Accounting Technician's ??

This means you are not an accountant.

Therefore, surely, a "proper" accountant has to be chartered.



at the risk of repeating myself:

ANYONE CAN CALL THEMSELVES AN ACCOUNTANT.

THEY DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE ANY QUALIFICATION WHAT SO EVER!

Unless or until the term is regulated as the term solicitor is (I think???) then Joe Bloggs who may not even be able to add up can call themself an accountant.

Whether this is right or wrong is a separate issue and one which has been debated many times.

But the fact is anyone can be a proper accountant because there is no definition of a proper accountant?

[Maslins]

AAT's a great qualification, but is (as I understand it) effectively a foundation course before doing ACA or ACCA. The firm I trained with took on graduates straight into the ACA training scheme, and school leavers into AAT first. After passing AAT they could then move on.

This was a few years ago, but the ACA trainees started on £16k which included graduates, and also 1 AAT qualified person from another practice. That person, thought it was hugely unfair that she had 2 years accounts experience and a specific accounting qualification yet wasn't paid more than the n00b graduates...but I was one of the graduates so didn't complain!

The AAT trainees taken on at the same time started on £12k. Inflation's probably bumped up both figures a bit though.

In short, if you want to get into accountancy, I think doing any exams towards qualifications off your own back shows you're keen and will make a potential employer look much more favourably on you...but work experience as well is obviously ideal.

Out of interest Jenni, if someone asks if you are a qualified accountant, what do you answer? I don't know whether there's a right or wrong answer, just interested. Also, please tear Zeno a new arse.

[MyAccountantOnline]

so if i do a law degree am i a Lawyer? .... no

doesnt AAT stand for ....... Association of Accounting Technician's ??

This means you are not an accountant.

Therefore, surely, a "proper" accountant has to be chartered.

An AAT is merely a stepping stone towards this.

And as an AAT you cant expect more than £15,000 as a starting salary?

Sorry to upset a few people but these are the facts.

The real problem is the Government (like it or not - and I really dont want to go down that very boring route) havent defined the term Accountant.

Fact until they do anyone can call themselves an accountant.

Starting salaries in accountancy depend on many many factors - certainly qualifed AAT's can earn considerably more than that.

Its very wrong to knock a very good and highly respected professional qualification such as the AAT.

I believe I am right in saying AAT members have 'reporting accountant' status?

[Zeno]

Its very wrong to knock a very good and highly respected professional qualification such as the AAT.

I believe I am right in saying AAT members have 'reporting accountant' status?

I am not sure anyone is knocking the qualification. I think we all agree that it is a well repected professional qualification however also that it is a relatively junior one.

You must have felt the same at some point if you went on to become an ACCA?

[MyAccountantOnline]

I am not sure anyone is knocking the qualification. I think we all agree that it is a well repected professional qualification however also that it is a relatively junior one.

You must have felt the same at some point if you went on to become an ACCA?


Zeno - I do think the comments have been a bit harsh about the AAT and have been incorrect.

Yes I did use to feel similar. I trained in fairly old school practices to start with where anyone but a Chartered accountant was second rate and not worthy of the time of day.

Its a very difficult one to answer without starting the old qualified v unqualified debate which has done the rounds enough, but lets just say I'd much rather see an 'AAT accountant' than one with no professional qualification. At least then Jo public knows they are dealing with someone who must have PI cover, do CPD etc., and I highly rate the AAT.

[DVWooly]

I have never said AAT wasnt a good qualification i was merely pointing out the fact there is a massive difference between that and chartered and should in no uncertian terms be compared in any way.

AAT is on a par with A levels/Degree in my opinion.

[Zeno]

I have never said AAT wasnt a good qualification i was merely pointing out the fact there is a massive difference between that and chartered and should in no uncertian terms be compared in any way.

AAT is on a par with A levels/Degree in my opinion.

You are going to be wearing your arse for a hat when Jenni gets here.

[Jenni384]

there is a massive difference between that and chartered [...]

AAT is on a par with [...] a Degree in my opinion.
I agree with you on that. Nobody is saying AAT is comparable in complexity to a chartered qualification.
And the top level of AAT is billed as equal to the first year or a degree.

My practicing certificate states that I am:

Licensed and regulated to engage in public practice in

Accountancy:
Bookeeping
financial Accounting and Accounts Preparation
Management Accounting
Payroll
Independent Examination

Taxation:
VAT
Income Tax
CT
CGT

and some other bits and bobs :)

Nope, it doesn't say I'm an accountant (though I am, for reasons stated above) but it certainly says AATs in practice are competent for general practice.
I wouldn't dream of doing anything 'above my station' and have no desire to.

I'm not tearing anyone a new arse, as I really can't be bothered and it's a valid debate, all are entitled to their opinions. I really think that this topic demonstrates how the AAT really aren't pushing the value of their qwualification to the industry though.

I have a few other opinions but as I have to come down on the side of my professional body on this, I'm not going to say them! Suffice it to say that competent AATs are more than good enough to work in general practice with the right experience and CPD.

Speaking of competency, David and I have inherited some right messes from high street Chartered firms (a scary number of times, too), but wouldn't dream of saying that devalues the chartered quals at all. As with the qual/unqual debate, there are good unquals and bad qualifieds, and vice versa.

If it's relevant, I have had a number of people on this forum assume I am Chartered simply from my posts. Possibly that says something about us 'mere' AATs? ;)

Now, who wants a cup of tea? :D

[DVWooly]

5 members of my staff are AAT qualified or working towards it and i agree their work is of a high quality.

The ability to work in practice or in a finance company was never questioned just whether they are a full blown accountant in the same way a solicitor, doctor or actuary is seen.

In the end its a discussion which isnt relevant at all.

[Jenni384]

whether they are a full blown accountant in the same way a solicitor, doctor or actuary is seen.

I'd say some of us are, some aren't.
Some AAT are happy being juniors or bookkeepers. Some others choose to be full blown accountants and are excellent at it. And there are good and bad ones in any industry/ qualification. Because AAT is so flexible, it's difficult to pass judgement on the qualification as a whole (in an 'are they/aren't they accountants' way) as members choose to use it differently and the way the course is structured enables different career paths.


In the end its a discussion which isnt relevant at all.
Well it is - your initial comment on the thread made it so ;)

[BI Ltd]

Well as both MAAT and ACMA - my tuppenceworth

Anyone who thinks just because they are a chartered accountant that they are a 'proper' accountant really needs an attitude check.

'proper' accountants have experience, knowledge and professional standards, all of which I have seen in AATs and have seen missing in some chartereds.

A 'proper' accountant would hopefully shy away from making any disparaging remarks about any professional body especially one like the AAT which is sponsored by all the major CCABs.

The salary estimte is completely meaningless. An AAT member who specialises in setting up computer software could make considerably more than that especially if they had say SAP experience, whilst many junior staff at a large practice pay for the kudos of working for one of the big boys by being paid a pittance.

The only thing that is true about both cases is that a professional accountant would surely have learnt not to make sweeping generalisations about a very complex area.

[DVWooly]

Jenni384 .......

you may want to ask them to re write this ......... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountant

[Neilh]

Hi

On this issue of title, how is the IFA and AAT reconciled then? Members of the IFA at associate grade are termed "Accountants" yet the IFA associate grade is at the same standard as the AAT qualification.

I agree with BI Ltd (and i'm also MAAT and ACMA) that knowledge, experience and professionalism are what makes an accountant. One of my first bosses was in and FD position with about 20 years experience and the AAT qualification. He could have run rings around the CCAB qualified who took over from him.

Neil

[askm]

I agree with BI Ltd (and i'm also MAAT and ACMA) that knowledge, experience and professionalism are what makes an accountant. One of my first bosses was in and FD position with about 20 years experience and the AAT qualification. He could have run rings around the CCAB qualified who took over from him.



For my tuppenceworth, I'm ACA (Chartered). But I certainly don't think that qualification makes me any better than any other accountant.

My ex-boss wasn't qualified at all (timebarred) but he was, and is, one of the best accountants I've ever known.

It's your capabilities and your experience that make a good accountant. What's covered in the big exams often bears no resemblance at all to the work we do for clients, especially if we're dealing with small businesses.

What's important is whether you're good at what you do - not what letters you have after your name.

That's my thinking anyway.

M

[qrius]

Whoa these are all interesting perspectives. Thanks everyone.

Where can I get an AAT qualification? Any trusted places? Apparently I read stuff on Home Learning College suggesting it's not reliable and they usually won't take 'no' for an answer.

[CelticStar]

AAT is a very good and well-respected qualification. If you have a look at their website and forum - I can't post links yet as I have too few posts on here but a quick search will find them - you will get lots of good advice about the qualification and the various distance learning providers. From reading the forum myself the two providers which get the most positive comments are usually Premier Training & Eagle Education, but there are others and what suits one person may not suit another.

Hope this helps and good luck whatever you decide to do. :)