Why I love web designers and developers.

[sirearl]

Bit tongue in cheek,but afraid to often true.

http://searchengineland.com/85-reasons-why-website-designersdevelopers-keep-seos-in-business-19417

Earl

[SEO Positive]

He he, Voodoo.

Search engine optimisation is not voodoo, its SEO.

Keep it up designers. your keeping us in business.

[Toni Anicic]

A masterpiece :)

[matt.chatterley]

Brilliant. I particularly like #51.. "They think ranking #1 for the brand name is SEO."

If only we all had a quid for every time someone said "Yeah.. but it's fine. If I search for my company name, I'm top!"

[fisicx]

My fave:

#41 They think SEO will take care of itself by having a blog.

[SEO Positive]

Brilliant. I particularly like #51.. "They think ranking #1 for the brand name is SEO."

If only we all had a quid for every time someone said "Yeah.. but it's fine. If I search for my company name, I'm top!"

Thats something I hear quite often too. He he he.

[matt.chatterley]

Thats something I hear quite often too. He he he.

Now, if only they'd hurry up and give us mainstream video-phones, so that customers could SEE the facepalm.. ;)

[awebapart.com]

Did I miss any?86. They create static HTML sites.

To be fair, that list is merely a list of bad things for SEO, and as such, items on that list can and are done not just by web designers and developers, but also by SEO consultants too, all too often.

Perhaps some web designers or developers who know a little about SEO, should also come up with a list of bad things for SEO which so-called SEO consultants have recommended for their client's sites too. I could start the ball rolling here...

1. Giving the client somebody else's sitemap, a sitemap for a completely different website, to load up to their site

2. Only understanding static HTML sites and asking the client to change static HTML pages, where the site is clearly a dynamic content managed site

3. Participating in link farms

4. Using blackhat SEO techniques

5. Asking for ftp access to the site to make changes, thus invalidating the warranty provided by the web developer (how can a web developer support a site if someone else can go in and make any changes to underlying code they want)

6. Selling to a client by jumping on the bandwagon and evangelising about the latest SEO technique in the hope that the client hasn't heard of it and thinks it's the latest miracle snake oil

7. Cold calling clients, going for a mass market client base and still convincing the client that they will do things on a personal custom basis rather than offering a budget run of the mill conveyor belt SEO service

8. Giving meaningless guarantees or tricking the client by giving guarantees that are meant to be misinterpreted

9. Providing tie-in SEO, that only has affect whilst the client is signed up, as soon as the client stops subscribing the ranking goes, because the SEO is just in the SEO consultant's link network

10. Telling the client their site's SEO is bad for reasons that have no affect on SEO

... etc ...

[sirearl]

I am sure that the points you make Paul are very valid in many cases.

I could add many more SEO scams

Just a sad fact of life that if we get people to No1.

All our sins are forgiven.:rolleyes::)

Earl

[Toni Anicic]

I am sure that the points you make Paul are very valid in many cases.

I could add many more SEO scams

Just a sad fact of life that if we get people to No1.

All our sins are forgiven.:rolleyes::)

Earl

I actually had a nice study on 6 things to avoid when hiring an SEO. It includes most of the SEO company SCAMS :) I hope you don't mind the link guys: http://inchoo.net/online-marketing/6-things-to-avoid-when-hiring-an-seo/

[Kneoteric_eSolutions]

The world would always need people who clean up mess - some created by themselves and some created by others. If everything was perfect we would need nobody.

Developers are experts in their field and we can't expect them to know too much about SEO. And that is why it has always been recommended that SEO and website designers and developers work together. It should be a team work after all.

[awebapart.com]

Developers are experts in their field and we can't expect them to know too much about SEO.
Quite a bit of good SEO is about reverse engineering search engines, software systems which have been developed by other software developers, understanding how they work, so I would say that good software developers should be in a good position to understand SEO.

[sirearl]

And that is why it has always been recommended that SEO and website designers and developers work together. It should be a team work after all.

absolutely,unfortunately many times one comes across a degree of resentment from web design companies ,even down to not allowing SEO's ftp access when they are hosting a site e.t.c.

I do work with quite a few designers and developers very successfully .

The key being mutual respect for each others particular skills.

Earl

[awebapart.com]

5. Asking for ftp access to the site to make changes, thus invalidating the warranty provided by the web developer (how can a web developer support a site if someone else can go in and make any changes to underlying code they want)

absolutely,unfortunately many times one comes across a degree of resentment from web design companies ,even down to not allowing SEO's ftp access when they are hosting a site e.t.c.

I do work with quite a few designers and developers very successfully .

The key being mutual respect for each others particular skills.
Any SEO consultant who has any respect or understanding of what is involved in a professional development environment (development, testing, releasing to live, support) would not be asking for ftp access to a live client site (except maybe the most simple static HTML sites).

[Kev Jaques]

Hmmm It's good, but it's not right! I ordered a Korma! ;)

This list might be good to get clients to tick or cross as a questionnaire, if they believe in any of them then they need educating.

What is missing however is the amount of time and effort it can take to market their site which is a more important factor.
Especially true in eCommerce where a big percentage of their time will be to market their site, not all site hits are ppl.

It's a shame people are tarring every web designer/developer with the same brush. While there are a lot of designers/developers who do numpty things there are a lot who do stand for the right reasons and work to a higher standard.
It also seems that people are also quick to flame or condemn if people want to take a pride in their work by adhering to high standards.
This is a main reason why it's hard for customers to trust designers/developers, by taking a pride in your work and work you do for your clients you alleviate those fears. It's not rocket science it's largely common sense.

[sirearl]

Any SEO consultant who has any respect or understanding of what is involved in a professional development environment (development, testing, releasing to live, support) would not be asking for ftp access to a live client site (except maybe the most simple static HTML sites).

well I think you are talking about all singing dancing sites.

For your average commerce site ,its far quicker and easier for me to have ftp access than to have to keep going through a third party.

There is also the point that I am not always inclined to share the tricks of the trade with any Tom,Dick or Harry.:)

Lets not also forget that the majority of commerce sites are engineered way over the top for what is needed.

Maybe something to do with companies being able to charge a few bob more.? :D

Earl

[Printing Hull]

Hmmm It's good, but it's not right! I ordered a Korma! ;)

True ;)

I am not either of these so I'll step back and have a giggle! :)

[Kneoteric_eSolutions]

Quite a bit of good SEO is about reverse engineering search engines, software systems which have been developed by other software developers, understanding how they work, so I would say that good software developers should be in a good position to understand SEO.

They are in a good position to understand SEO but that does not necessarily translate to the fact that they understand SEO or atleast have the willingness to try and understand it.

Forget SEO, many of them don't even create websites that have logical navigation and have a decent usability quotient. I am speaking a bit from my experience and a bit from second hand information so I might be mistaken.

[awebapart.com]

well I think you are talking about all singing dancing sites.
I'm talking about sites that are supported by the developer or designer, anything above the simple static HTML site level. Even designers of static HTML websites should be reluctant to hand over ftp details to a live site, if they are supporting the site and ensuring the site works on a variety of browsers (there could be complex XHTML/CSS coding there that could easily, and unwittingly, be messed up).

For your average commerce site ,its far quicker and easier for me to have ftp access than to have to keep going through a third party.
If your definition of the "average commerce site" is a simple static HTML site, not supported by the developer / designer, then maybe. But most ecommerce sites, and a growing proportion of brochure sites are more complex than that nowadays.
There is also the point that I am not always inclined to share the tricks of the trade with any Tom,Dick or Harry
Then you are operating under a false sense of security, thinking that making changes direct will prevent the designer /developer from knowing what changes you have made. It is simple for any determined designer / developer to compare old and new versions of a site and see where changes have been made using file comparison (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=compare+files&meta=&aq=f&oq=), version control and version difference tools. So it is not appropriate for an SEO consultant to use this reason as an excuse for wanting direct FTP access.

[sirearl]

Then you are operating under a false sense of security, thinking that making changes direct will prevent the designer /developer from knowing what changes you have made. It is simple for any determined designer / developer to compare old and new versions of a site and see where changes have been made using file comparison (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=compare+files&meta=&aq=f&oq=), version control and version difference tools. So it is not appropriate for an SEO consultant to use this reason as an excuse for wanting direct FTP access.

seeing something and knowing what it means are two different things.:|

As said very few sites need to be as elaborate or complex as they are for the purpose of selling goods.

Earl

[awebapart.com]

seeing something and knowing what it means are two different things.
As are asking a designer to make a change, and explaining the reasoning behind that change.

Either way it is still not a valid reason for an SEO to ask for FTP access to a live site, a site supported by a developer / designer.

[NMHancock]

Either way it is still not a valid reason for an SEO to ask for FTP access to a live site, a site supported by a developer / designer.
Although i see your point of view, i regularly ask for FTP details if available purely down to the reason that
a) being from a coding background, i slightly know what i am doing...well im not completely blind to coding, and
b) if i want a change made, i can make it when i am ready, but if i dont have FTP access i have to wait 2 days for the designer to make the changes!

[sirearl]

Either way it is still not a valid reason for an SEO to ask for FTP access to a live site, a site supported by a developer / designer.

You must be joking,think of the time it would take to upload pages of copy to a third party,pages that one may wish to change quite frequently.

And I am supposed to wait around while someone else uploads to the site.:eek:

Hence why most successful sites are controlled by the SEO.

We don't need to know the techie mumbo jumbo but do need to have control of what goes where.:)

Earl

[awebapart.com]

You must be joking
You said that one of the reasons you want ftp access is because you don't want to give out your secrets. I said that those secrets or changes were easily visible anyway, which then makes your secrecy reason for ftp access invalid. You then said even if they could see those changes they wouldn't understand them. I then said, if they don't understand the changes then you can just ask them to make the changes and your secret would still be 'safe', without you requiring ftp access, again making your secrecy reason for ftp access invalid. I don't see where the joke is.

If you are talking about requiring ftp access for other reasons apart from secrecy, then that is another issue.

Any website owner or designer or developer or SEO person, before you consider ftp access to a site, you need to ask yourself who really needs it, who is supporting the site, who is supporting changes to the site, and if something does go wrong with the site, who is then responsible for that mistake and responsible for fixing it.

[NMHancock]

Any website owner or designer or developer or SEO person, before you consider ftp access to a site, you need to ask yourself who really needs it, who is supporting the site, who is supporting changes to the site, and if something does go wrong with the site, who is then responsible for that mistake and responsible for fixing it.
It's not necessarily as cut and dry as 'yes you can have access' or 'no you cant have access' You could easily put FTP restrictions onto the SEO company, meaning they can only access certain pages and/or areas on the site. Or you can disable the write access to certain pages if there is an issue of accident damage to the website through a lack of knowledge

[sirearl]

You said that one of the reasons you want ftp access is because you don't want to give out your secrets. I said that those secrets or changes were easily visible anyway, which then makes your secrecy reason for ftp access invalid. You then said even if they could see those changes they wouldn't understand them. I then said, if they don't understand the changes then you can just ask them to make the changes and your secret would still be 'safe', without you requiring ftp access, again making your secrecy reason for ftp access invalid. I don't see where the joke is.

If you are talking about requiring ftp access for other reasons apart from secrecy, then that is another issue.

Any website owner or designer or developer or SEO person, before you consider ftp access to a site, you need to ask yourself who really needs it, who is supporting the site, who is supporting changes to the site, and if something does go wrong with the site, who is then responsible for that mistake and responsible for fixing it.

Paul I think we are debating two different things here.

I suspect you are talking about high end techie sites,where I probably would not have a clue what I am looking at.:|:)

I am talking about your average make a few bob site,again I would reiterate that its much quicker for me to upload to a site and make the needed alterations as me creative moments hit me.:p

Us artists need a certain ambience in order to create our masterpieces.:rolleyes:;)

Not some young techie genius blasting our ear with "you can't do that" or " why you doing that" e.t.c.:p


Earl

[IainW]

sirearl - it's nice to see you re-appear slowly after the thread about surfing websites.:p:D

Iain