Think you know your meta tags?

[quikshop]

Ok, lets have a show of hands here. Who thinks meta tags have any value left whatsoever, or does Google's algorythm ignore them?

We've just witnessed some very interesting results with one of our clients shops but I'll leave off with the details until you've all nailed your colours to the mast :p:D

[Tin]

Have value!

[quikshop]

Have value!

Lol :D

Well reasoned ;)

[fisicx]

Title: vital

Description: Used for improving clickthroughs but not ranking.

Keywords: No value whatsoever (except to put your competitors off the scent).

[Anelly]

I think they are still important for ranking well in seaches.

[sirearl]

Ask yourself why do they exist.?

Earl

[NMHancock]

Title: The most important on page factor!

Descriptions: Very useful as a promotional tool once you are ranked in the SERPs and can still have a small weighting in the SERPs ranking algos

Keywords: Not used by the major search engines as a ranking factor, but some smaller, less developed search engines probably still consider it

Neil M Hancock

[Tin]

Lol :D

Well reasoned ;)

Sorry Dave, only had a second to post so kept it short.

Personally, the title (strictly not meta) is really important if used well, the meta description I know is very often subject to scorn by a lot of seo's but I've used it to great effect in a theming capacity and in some extremely competitive areas without the work being supported by links so I know it has more than minimal value.

Keywords. I still use them but simply to align the tag up to the content as a sort of quailifier signal. Has nothing like the clout it had years ago.

As Neil pointed out, it's a really good idea to create titles and descriptions that incorporate a WiiFM or call to action because your first "sales pitch" to your potential customers is when they read your text snippet in your rankings at Google.

Ray

[megri]

title, description and keywords are important from ranking point of view, in serp's google picks some time description in search results to show and bold the keywords you searched

[sirearl]

Sorry Dave, only had a second to post so kept it short.

Personally, the title (strictly not meta) is really important if used well, the meta description I know is very often subject to scorn by a lot of seo's but I've used it to great effect in a theming capacity and in some extremely competitive areas without the work being supported by links so I know it has more than minimal value.

Keywords. I still use them but simply to align the tag up to the content as a sort of quailifier signal. Has nothing like the clout it had years ago.

As Neil pointed out, it's a really good idea to create titles and descriptions that incorporate a WiiFM or call to action because your first "sales pitch" to your potential customers is when they read your text snippet in your rankings at Google.

Ray

Totally agree, but no idea what a WiiFM is.?:|:)

I may need to get rid of me valve radio to get it.?:rolleyes:

Earl

[Spock]

It must be some kind of radio game for the Nintendo ;)

[An Oasis]

It must be some kind of radio game for the Nintendo ;)

Very close - What's in it for me.;)

[deniser]

We've just witnessed some very interesting results with one of our clients shops but I'll leave off with the details until you've all nailed your colours to the mast :p:D

My personal opinion is that the text on the page has become more important recently. I have some pages where the title has been ignored in favour of the words on the page leading to some strange results.

For example, on each product page there are some suggested accessories to go with the product. When googling for that accessory, it used to bring up the page with that item on it but now it ignores the actual page where that accessory is on (which has that search term in the meta title) and brings up the page with the product which that accessory is linked to (where there is a lot more relevant text about the accessory on the page).

Will you reveal all now?

[quikshop]

Ok, to put you fine SEO'ers out of your misery this is what we found:

A shop owner wanted to rank for a very specific competitive search word (used within various search terms). That word was put into the meta title and description of the shop and without any content changes the shop is now page one of Google for a number of search terms containing that word, having previously not ranked at all for any of these search terms.

Although none of our little SEO experiments provide conclusive proof of anything (how could they?) this is good indicative evidence that the TITLE and/or meta description still have a significant impact on a website's SERPS.

Interestingly the title and meta description changes have not negatively impacted on previously well established page one positions for other related search terms.

[Spock]

Hmmm am I missing something because everyone knows the meta Title is a vital part of page optimisation, it's the description and keywords that are a grey area :|

[Tin]

Hmmm, I too thought we were referring to the meta description in particular and not the title. Ah well!

[david64]

Try Googeling a meta description that is unique content, nothing will come up. Also try adding a unique made-up word in a meta description, won't come up either. Reverse on Yahoo.

[sirearl]

Try Googeling a meta description that is unique content, nothing will come up. Also try adding a unique made-up word in a meta description, won't come up either. Reverse on Yahoo.

Not sure I want to do this but hey you can't live forever.

Click this: http://www.atvquadshop.co.uk/

then type this in google 01227 771 831

site should come up about No 15

then tell me where google got the phone number from.?:rolleyes:

Earl

[Delicious Webdesign]

the title is the number 1 SEO ranking factor on a page so your experiment isnt going to tell most of us anything new.

I was expecting for you to say something amazing like a search being influenced positively by meta keywords which are a minor minor ranking factor on some engines (not G)

[An Oasis]

Not sure I want to do this but hey you can't live forever.

Click this: http://www.atvquadshop.co.uk/

then type this in google 01227 771 831

site should come up about No 15

then tell me where google got the phone number from.?:rolleyes:

Earl

Damn there's a lot of spam in that collection of SEPRs, can't imagine being that blatent!:rolleyes: Hell of a foot print Earl.

[UKSBD]

Not sure I want to do this but hey you can't live forever.

Click this: http://www.atvquadshop.co.uk/

then type this in google 01227 771 831

site should come up about No 15

then tell me where google got the phone number from.?:rolleyes:

Earl

It's on the page!
so what does that indicate?

[sirearl]

Damn there's a lot of spam in that collection of SEPRs, can't imagine being that blatent!:rolleyes: Hell of a foot print Earl.

One small step for man,one giant leap for jetski's.:p:)

Spam what spam.?;)

No spam there laddie,well not in SEO terms.:rolleyes:

Earl

[sirearl]

It's on the page!
so what does that indicate?

Oh no its not Mr Punch.

Strewth you can lead a horse.:rolleyes::):p

Earl

[Tin]

Erm..... I spy with my little eye, something beginning with the number 01227 here

"WE SUPPLY ATV / Quad PARTS AND SERVICING PLEASE CALL 01227 771 831"

and erm... here too...

"QUAD PARTS ATV PARTS WE STOCK PARTS FOR ALL CAN AM QUAD BIKES 01227 771831":D;)

[sirearl]

Erm..... I spy with my little eye, something beginning with the number 01227 here

"WE SUPPLY ATV / Quad PARTS AND SERVICING PLEASE CALL 01227 771 831"

and erm... here too...

"QUAD PARTS ATV PARTS WE STOCK PARTS FOR ALL CAN AM QUAD BIKES 01227 771831":D;)

but one would notice that it is taking the number from the meta description tag verbatum,if one bothered to look.:p

Compared with many of our other sites that do not have it in there meta description

I rest my case.;)

Earl

[Tin]

True Earl, but that's because Google will display the meta description providing that the searched for term is contained within the meta description. If it isn't then Google will look within the page content of the cached copy and if the searched for word appears in the copy then it'll flush up the surrounding text either side of the first instance of the searched word.

Try Googling a meta description that is unique content, nothing will come up. Also try adding a unique made-up word in a meta description, won't come up either. Reverse on Yahoo.

Given that you posted immediately below David's post I presumed that the point you were making is that having something unique in the meta description 'will show in serps'? Is that what you meant?:)

Ray

[edmondscommerce]

Nice one Earl.. We now know all your secrets

[An Oasis]

One small step for man,one giant leap for jetski's.:p:)

Spam what spam.?;)

No spam there laddie,well not in SEO terms.:rolleyes:

Earl

I was actually admiring how blatant you were...! If only I had the guts. Just noticed one of our competitors has committed various stupid errors on domains they own. G & Y have nuked all of them but the original in terms of ranking however MSN has included them all, thank goodness for MSN.:D

[sirearl]

True Earl, but that's because Google will display the meta description providing that the searched for term is contained within the meta description. If it isn't then Google will look within the page content of the cached copy and if the searched for word appears in the copy then it'll flush up the surrounding text either side of the first instance of the searched word.

Ray

yes I agree but it does prove .I think :|that google uses meta description in rankings.I think.:|

well I have always believed it does and no one has yet proved to me that they don't.:rolleyes::)

Earl

[An Oasis]

I was actually admiring how blatant you were...! If only I had the guts. Just noticed one of our competitors has committed various stupid errors on domains they own. G & Y have nuked all of them but the original in terms of ranking however MSN has included them all, thank goodness for MSN.:D

That does not read well, sorry Earl. It was not meant to imply that what you are doing is stupid, far from it.

[UKSBD]

I've had numerous tests running over the years for meta descriptions and
title attributes, and have never seen either appear in the serps.

It reminds me though, I can't remember where my meta description test
pages are now :(

Easy for anyone to set up their own tests though, just add a made up
word to a meta description on a strong page, and search for the word
every now and then.

[calciumtech]

The reality is that Meta Tags do have value. If you think they do not then you are far from the truth...

When it comes to Google this tag is useless or so they would have you believe! and won't influence your rankings! There is some speculation as to whether a spammy keyword tag can however, have a negative effect on Google rankings. As a result, if you do utilize a keyword Meta tag for the smaller engines, it is best to keep it clean and play it safe. Some of the younger sites will be used for keywords with google just to give them a directional access and with the new search facility that Google now uses this becomes very much an interesting element.

The Meta Description tag is still occasionally used by Google as the description which appears in the search results themselves. While this used to be a more common practice Google tends to use it most often on sites with very limited content, or those which are flash based. I have seen it still used for content rich sites, however this is less common.

The Meta Description tag still has an impact on search rankings. Your best bet when using this tag is to keep it short and sweet with your target phrase close to the start and not repeated more than 3 times. Like the title tag, each page on your site should have its own unique description tag.

Hope that helps.

[sirearl]

The reality is that Meta Tags do have value. If you think they do not then you are far from the truth...

When it comes to Google this tag is useless or so they would have you believe! and won't influence your rankings! There is some speculation as to whether a spammy keyword tag can however, have a negative effect on Google rankings. As a result, if you do utilize a keyword Meta tag for the smaller engines, it is best to keep it clean and play it safe. Some of the younger sites will be used for keywords with google just to give them a directional access and with the new search facility that Google now uses this becomes very much an interesting element.

The Meta Description tag is still occasionally used by Google as the description which appears in the search results themselves. While this used to be a more common practice Google tends to use it most often on sites with very limited content, or those which are flash based. I have seen it still used for content rich sites, however this is less common.

The Meta Description tag still has an impact on search rankings. Your best bet when using this tag is to keep it short and sweet with your target phrase close to the start and not repeated more than 3 times. Like the title tag, each page on your site should have its own unique description tag.

Hope that helps.

Very good Wesley now where did you learn all that from.

Not some grumpy old git from No9 is it peeps.:D:D:D

Earl

[calciumtech]

yes I agree but it does prove .I think :|that google uses meta description in rankings.I think.:|

well I have always believed it does and no one has yet proved to me that they don't.:rolleyes::)

Earl

Earl, you know I was involved with the launch of Google back in 98 in California, I still have my access into that world and "Yes" it does is the secret answer....

[calciumtech]

Very good Wesley now where did you learn all that from.

Not some grumpy old git from No9 is it peeps.:D:D:D

Earl

I learnt a long long long time ago.... thats why I have good sites. :D:D:D:D days in California in the 1990's old chap, Mountainview, it paid to have access to the inner google world!

[sirearl]

I learnt a long long long time ago.... thats why I have good sites. :D:D:D:D days in California in the 1990's old chap, Mountainview, it paid to have access to the inner google world!

Don't talk bullsh1t you have no access to google,and you knew nothing about SEO in the early days.

Hence why you approached me to do SEO for you.:rolleyes:

You have one site that has been going for yonks in a non competative are that does well and thats it.

Earl

[calciumtech]

Don't talk bullsh1t you have no access to google,and you knew nothing about SEO in the early days.

Hence why you approached me to do SEO for you.:rolleyes:

You have one site that has been going for yonks in a non competative are that does well and thats it.

Earl

I have 29 sites thank you Earl, all in the top 5.

I asked you to do some SEO when I was involved with the space technology project, had no time and thought I could trust you over that other twallop at the time, this is by the way some 2 year back.

You seem to forget that I spent a lot of time in California, and you only met me as a neighbour and have not been privy to any of my work - not really. I let you play with Oceanfever for a while, which I appreciated.

I had access to google in mountainview old chap for some time, you see I dated before Jane a very good blonde who became employed senior in the very early days.

I was also involved with senior executives in New York at GOTO.com as well, which I am sure you remember, but probably 99% on this site dont know about.

Anyway, stop having a go at me, really its not necessary. I have a right to be angry at you following your claim to my work, I am furious over it, feel just let down by a friend. Sure you gave the odd bit of advice, but that was a two way street.

For reference I still have my first SEO wording on my first site that online before I even moved to the road, and I have that as proof old chap! In those days you had just tags, not even Meta tags. Just tags.

[sirearl]

I was also involved with senior executives in New York at GOTO.com as well, which I am sure you remember, but probably 99% on this site dont know about.



still living in cloud cuckoo land is we.:D

Earl

[calciumtech]

Don't talk bullsh1t you have no access to google,and you knew nothing about SEO in the early days.

Hence why you approached me to do SEO for you.:rolleyes:

You have one site that has been going for yonks in a non competative are that does well and thats it.

Earl

Take a "chill pill" Sir Earl, a "chill pill"! Its cool with me, I have no issue and you do some great SEO stuff, I know that. For reference to one thing though, if you feel so much about that non competitive site, that actually is 2nd out of 219,000,000 on a top search term on google at present, then you are welcome to think its not important but I would say that a lot of people would rather be 2nd than 10th, or 20th or 1,000 on that page and thats why its up for sale... its a great site!

Now its tinkers birthday this week, an you believe she is 10 buddy, an dthe boy is coming on 5.... what a shocker. Anyway, stay calm and be happy.

God bless!:)

[fisicx]

yes I agree but it does prove .I think :|that google uses meta description in rankings.I think.:|

well I have always believed it does and no one has yet proved to me that they don't.:rolleyes::)

Do a test, put a unique word in a meta description that doesn't appear in the rest of the site and wait. That word will never, ever appear in the SERPs.

Agree that Google uses the meta description in the snippet, they tell us this in their guidelines but they also tell us in a number of places that it is NOT used for ranking. If it were proven that it was a ranking signal there would no doubt be all sorts of outcry around the SEO community but not a whisper is to be heard. I'm quite amazed that you still believe this, I thought you tested everything SEO.

[calciumtech]

Do a test, put a unique word in a meta description that doesn't appear in the rest of the site and wait. That word will never, ever appear in the SERPs.

Agree that Google uses the meta description in the snippet, they tell us this in their guidelines but they also tell us in a number of places that it is NOT used for ranking. If it were proven that it was a ranking signal there would no doubt be all sorts of outcry around the SEO community but not a whisper is to be heard. I'm quite amazed that you still believe this, I thought you tested everything SEO.

I have to defend Sir Earl here, because it does have an effect on certain sites for sure, and it certainly works on three of my older sites more than modern ones, those sites are over 11 years old, so maybe something is connected with age. However they are constantly changing things anyway, it does not hurt to ensure that all basis are covered because you never know if things will switch!

Earl and I have been online a very long time, old dinasaurs in many ways with this, although I am young and he is ancient :D, I have a simple saying, if you have a thing that works - do it, if you feel it don'T then why bother!:)

[fisicx]

I have to defend Sir Earl here, because it does have an effect on certain sites for sure...

Do you have any evidence of this? By that can you show that the rank of a specific page changed as the result of changes to the meta description. I've recently completed a test on a well established site. I removed the meta tags from a page that ranked #1 and.....nothing happened.

[MISI_UK]

Like others I find:

Title: Vital
Keywords: Not sure they do alot but will put them in anyway!
Description: Unimportant in terms of ranking but are good for a click through point of view.

Im finding URL, Content and links more important than Meta as long as I have a good title. But I always put them in as good practice anyway.

[quikshop]

the title is the number 1 SEO ranking factor on a page so your experiment isnt going to tell most of us anything new.

If you think I'm just stating the obvious then just pat me on the head and smile :D

I disagree, the title value is not the number 1 SEO ranking factor on a page.

The purpose of posting this thread was to show what we found, and that is that meta tags which have been much maligned in recent years continue to have value, and on the basis of what we saw, significant value.

The next step is to identify which tags carry the most influence, and I'll report back to this expert panel in due course with the results :rolleyes:

[calciumtech]

Do you have any evidence of this? By that can you show that the rank of a specific page changed as the result of changes to the meta description. I've recently completed a test on a well established site. I removed the meta tags from a page that ranked #1 and.....nothing happened.

Yes I do have some, but I would sayone thing, and you have probably noticed this anyway. Google for example ranks importance to a website, and this will also mean that a change you do now may take 12 weeks to change in real terms, the page may look the same on the search itself but eventually action will occur.

I think it really comes down to what ever you feel is correct to be honest, and keep it under your hat when you find what works. We cant all be number 1,2,3 etc.... but if you have it already, certainly dont play with it too much!:D

[calciumtech]

If you think I'm just stating the obvious then just pat me on the head and smile :D

I disagree, the title value is not the number 1 SEO ranking factor on a page.

The purpose of posting this thread was to show what we found, and that is that meta tags which have been much maligned in recent years continue to have value, and on the basis of what we saw, significant value.

The next step is to identify which tags carry the most influence, and I'll report back to this expert panel in due course with the results :rolleyes:

I agree 100% with your statement.

[fisicx]

Yes I do have some....

Where is this evidence? If what you suggest is true then Google have been telling lies in ALL their documentation and could end up in court as a result.

Google for example ranks importance to a website, and this will also mean that a change you do now may take 12 weeks to change in real terms, the page may look the same on the search itself but eventually action will occur.:D

I don't agree, the meta data was removed, the page was reindexed and the new snippet displayed in the SERPS. It took less than a week.

At the moment there is not one shred of evidence anywhere on the internet that the meta description is a ranking signal but pleanty of evidence that it isn't.

All you have provided so far is hearsay not hard evidence.

[calciumtech]

Where is this evidence? If what you suggest is true then Google have been telling lies in ALL their documentation and could end up in court as a result.



I don't agree, the meta data was removed, the page was reindexed and the new snippet displayed in the SERPS. It took less than a week.

At the moment there is not one shred of evidence anywhere on the internet that the meta description is a ranking signal but pleanty of evidence that it isn't.

All you have provided so far is hearsay not hard evidence.

Well, I hear you, and as I said its for you to make your own decision on, I just cover all bases and have success from it - so thats my argument. Anyway if you way works then, all the better less work. :)

[fisicx]

I just cover all bases and have success from it - so thats my argument.

All I'm asking is for you to show evidence of this success. Anyone can say doing XYZ improved my ranking but unless they can provide some evidence for this to be true then it's pretty much meaningless.

As an example, one 'SEO expert' suggested that the last thing on the page should be a tagline containing your primary keywords. It seemed perfectly sensible until someone did some testing only to discover it made no difference whatsoever.

If you are suggesting that ranking can be improved via the meta description (against all the evidence to the contrary) then surely it is not unreasonable for me to ask for evidence of this claim.

[calciumtech]

Sure will dig some out for you, just doing some programming at the moment. I am not saying that its the be all and end all, I am just saying that it has its place I am sure of it. That is all. It is always open to other opinion, thats why this forum and others do well. Dicussion.