RM Recorded Delivery - What Next?

[Mister B]

Over a set value, all of our orders are sent using the RM Recorded Delivery Service, for obvious reasons.

Up until this week, the delivery record was, as you would expect, 100% However, this week, we have learned that one parcel has been "signed for" but not actually received by the intended recipient. As a point of principle, and due to the amount involved, a claim was lodged with the RM.

We received a reply from the RM this morning, stating that as the goods have been signed for, they have obviously been delivered. Now bearing in mind that anybody could have signed for the goods during the "delivery" process, it makes the stance of the RM rather ambiguous.

My question is, where do we go from here? We have a customer who is adamant that the goods have not been delivered and the RM saying TSB, which leads me to think that somewhere within the system, the order has been stolen. Is there any further recourse with the RM to be had or is it a case of put it down to experience and move on.

TIA

Mister B

[.Spiralling.]

There are plenty of people who will tell you that their own postie has delivered RD items when they weren't in, stuck it through the letterbox and signed the card themselves.

From RM's pov - it should be the case that when a card is signed it has been delivered, but they can surely only be sure of that if they only accept the signature of the addressee, with proof of ID. The fact is that they accept much more than that.

Several years ago, I had a parcel delivered from overseas. A card was put through the shared letterbox. The occupant of the other flat picked it up and put it in my post box. I took the card to the collection office the next day where I was told it had already been collected by someone and signed for. I asked how, since I had the card. I was told they didn't need the card, if they knew there was a parcel for collection. The other occupant seemed genuinely surprised when I asked about it (we were on good terms).

[Mister B]

Thanks for the reply Nicola, makes a mockery of the system really though as the signatures are invariably not worth the paper that they are written on.

Be interesting to hear other opinions.

Mister B

[Rhyl Lightworks]

I had a similar experience a couple of years ago, and we eventually determined the parcel had been delivered and signed for next door and the intended recipient never informed. We eventually got the parcel back from next door, but had to send the customer another one. It was not worth the time and trouble it all entailed.
I have never used Recorded Delivery since. I have observed, from my visits to the sorting office, that RD is lumped with all the other post, and treated the same.
I would use normal 1st. class up to a certain value, and above this Special Delivery, which does cost more, but is treated differently.

Barrie

[KateCB]

We had the same situation, and we complained again to RM - they said they had a signature, we asked for POD which they provided and it was nothing like our customers signature - which she sent us via email.

We talked again to RM, and they asked us to provide a letter from the customer stating that she had not received the parcel, that the signature that they had was not hers and the she would be liable to prosecution to fraud if they found out differently....customer sent the letter, RM paid up.....

It does pay to be persistent with them, however I would talk to your customer, explain what you are doing and if it is possible, send another item by SD or Courier if it is worth it so that she remains happy - you can then fight RM AND retain your customer. If we let them get away with it they will just keep doing so - they have to be aware that they will meet resistance when we/the customer knows they are right; I guess RM have to play as well, as no doubt there are many people who claim not have received goods when they have, and these are probably the ones that give up easily!

[starsgazing]

My question is, where do we go from here? We have a customer who is adamant that the goods have not been delivered

Not to worry - complete a P58 form & claim "loss - denial of receipt" . They'll "investigate" (*cough* stall for a few months *cough* ) then give you your money back.
If they don't & write to you again saying it's been signed for and blah, blah, blah - threaten legal action, then sit back and await your cheque :D

[deniser]

Ask them to check with their neighbours on both sides.

The last missing signed for parcel we had was delivered to the neighbour who had assumed that a card telling the recipient that the parcel had been left next door had been left. It hadn't of course.

Check also who lives at that address. It could be a house in multiple occupation. A few questions usually results on the parcel being found.

Good luck!

[bmminiparts]

Useful information as i send all my deliveries by RM and courier.

I once had a courier drop off a delivery at the neighbours house, but no card was put through the actual delivery address advising them of the delivery. When we found this out they collected the package and was damaged, with some small parts being lost. I tried to resolve the issue, but could not. I then filed a claim to ANC, but because the claim time is from the time the parcel is dropped off by me and not when the parcel is signed for, they knocked the claim back even though they had breached their contract of only delivering to the correct address. I have since left them and they are still chacing me for the amount i was claiming.

ANC or FedEx also left, or so they said, a parcel at a door in a very secluded street, 4 houses. Both i and the customer did not believe them. As i had to state what was in the package they knew it was a CD changer and ipod kit. They refused to pay this claim as i had an outstanding balance, but i told them i would sue them as they breached their contractual agreement of getting a signature, and other breaches. They credited the account, but i lost a customer becaus of it, not to mention funds too!

[dingbat]

Yes, it's likely been delivered to another address. Whenever my stuff has gone missing there's been no signature.

The main problem I have is posties not delivering and not leaving a card with customers. It seems they hate waiting around for someone to open the door and sign. My own postie has a trick of pre-filling in all the non-delivery cards and just shoving those through without knocking or knocking once and leaving immediately.

[boho]

Not to worry - complete a P58 form & claim "loss - denial of receipt" . They'll "investigate" (*cough* stall for a few months *cough* ) then give you your money back.
If they don't & write to you again saying it's been signed for and blah, blah, blah - threaten legal action, then sit back and await your cheque :D

Except that Recorded Delivery and any other RM postage service do not cover you for the true loss if you send it as a business, they will only reimburse your purchase/manufacturing costs - and insist on receipts/invoices to prove those costs as well!

It is better to work with the customer to get the item traced or claimed for as they can claim the value of your invoice, but you can't.

RM shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, so I'd go with Kates approach and get a copy of the signatures and a declaration from your customer and pursue it that way.

[starsgazing]

Except that Recorded Delivery and any other RM postage service do not cover you for the true loss if you send it as a business, they will only reimburse your purchase/manufacturing costs - and insist on receipts/invoices to prove those costs as well!

It is better to work with the customer to get the item traced or claimed for as they can claim the value of your invoice, but you can't.

RM shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, so I'd go with Kates approach and get a copy of the signatures and a declaration from your customer and pursue it that way.

Sadly most customers don't have the time/patience to do this - the OP may end up ticking the customer off by getting them to do (in the customer's POV) their leg work. I would advise getting the customer to sign a statement denying receipt & saying that they'll pay for/return the original item if it's found (which it probably wont be - even if it is the customer wont tell you that!) & then replacing the item for the customer to remove them from the equation completely. Then chase the crap out of Royal Mail for reimbursement. Remember, your customer's contract is with you and your contract is with Royal Mail. I know it's hard OP but it works out better if you shoulder the burden for now - and I say this from experience. RM once "lost" (*cough* stole *cough*) a console package worth £379! We replaced the set <ouch> for the customer & had to wait 7 months for our money back ... and they only reimbursed the cost price *sigh*

[boho]

RM once "lost" (*cough* stole *cough*) a console package worth £379! We replaced the set <ouch> for the customer & had to wait 7 months for our money back ... and they only reimbursed the cost price *sigh*

Thats the thing that really p*sses me off, RM dont publish the t&c's on the backs of the slips for recorded/special etc and make it clear anywhere that this distinction exists.

As they lost it and the person sending it has to declare the value its insured against then they should by rights pay up based on the value insured. Its not right that they only pay up based on cost price when the replacement value is the amount you have to pay your customer for the lost item when they demand a refund.

As a service user I dont under insure the item I insure it for the value the customer pays, so if they damage or lose it then they should pay up under the insurance they made me pay.

You're right though most customers wouldn't want to be involved, but if they can and are willing to help then it can be useful, particularly when it comes to arguments over signed for deliveries.

My postie signs for my recorded deliveries and sticks them through the letterbox all the time ...except usually for the times when it would be useful :rolleyes:

[starsgazing]

Thats the thing that really p*sses me off, RM dont publish the t&c's on the backs of the slips for recorded/special etc and make it clear anywhere that this distinction exists.

All delivery companies have this stipulation though. I understand it, but they should settle claims in much less than 7 months! The Royal Mail rule that makes me nutty is the one where they say they wont refund you for losing a parcel, unless the customer returns a letter to them to "confirm" that they've not received package. Fair enough for non signed for mail, but when you have a scenario like a chargeback eg.

- You send a customer an item, they claim non-receipt.
- You've paid for Special Delivery and Royal Mail have no signature/the wrong signature.
- As a result the chargeback goes through & the customer is refunded in full.

You then have to complete a P58 claim & Royal Mail writes to the customer for a 'denial of receipt statement' expecting them to respond to this & post it back - despite them having received their money back in full? It's beyond ridiculous. RM write back after a couple of months to say that the customer has not provided them with a 'denial of receipt statement' and as such they will be closing the case! It is the biggest joke.

My postie signs for my recorded deliveries and sticks them through the letterbox all the time ...except usually for the times when it would be useful :rolleyes:

:D Royal Mail (and Parcelforce) seem to do most things right... except for the times when it would be useful!