Telesales on commission

[Handyhero]

Just spotted a post about a virtual PA and started wondering if I could employ a telesales person on a similar basis but purely on commission.

Has anyone used such a service? Is anyone you may know interested in selling reception tables to Civil Engineering copmpanies? Any sales people working from home? Sales person on maternity leave etc?

I know the sales process but just can't do it myself. I'm a designer!!!

I'd be very grateful for your opinions on this one.

[daveashton]

LOL

A few comments about this.

1: Why would any good salesperson work for commission only because if they were any good a company would be happy to pay a basic?
2: Why should the telesales person take all the risks? If you product is good (we have no reason to believe it isn't) you will have confidence that people can sell your product/ service and hence a basic is not a problem.
3: Sales is a skill and hence to get good sales people that are highly skilled costs good money as with every other service.
4: Have you ever heard of any designer getting paid on a results only basis i.e. if a web design gets good results/ rave reviews we will pay you and if not you get no money?

[ebonybailey]

Spoken like a true Salesman LOL
I have to agree with everything you said there.

[Handyhero]

Well why don't I just crawl away and die eh?

Your questions answered.

1 I would expect that the sales person I seek would enjoy freelance work and also, assuming he/she believed in the product, they might enjoy the challenge.
2 "All the risks"? What risks? If the cost of the phone calls is too much of a risk, then I rather doubt their confidence in their own ability.
3 If they are good, they would do well with commission. Probably £300 a unit; perhaps a contract; perhaps an additional bonus; perhaps a share in the business; perhaps they would jst make some new friends! I have no problem with paying good money. I'd like to see some level of free thinking and entrepreneurialism though - in anyone I deal with. Immediately jumping to the defensive in this manner smacks of the selfish immature way of thinking that has gripped this country and continues to strangle it until it's nuts drop off; an attitude distinctly lacking in the US... which puts men on the moon. QUOTE... "ask not what I get out of this before I've done anything but what can I give to deserve something after I have been a part of it's success" erm... (Me) 27th Jul 05 17:25
4 No I haven't heard of a web designer getting paid on results. However, pitching for business (at a cost to one's self) is commonplace in most businesses. I do not charge for phone calls, site visits, quotes, drawings, materials sourcing or collection etc. Why not? Because I am confident that I will recoup these costs by winning contracts.

...and relax.

thanks for your reply.

Yours lookingforwardtomoreabuse

Reza

[annethedonn]

Reza

I have a lady who could make calls for you but it would have to be on an hourly basis. She works from home.

Anne

[barry.hynd]

Thought I would fight your corner here Reza. I dont see any problem with sales people working on a commission only basis. If they have enough faith in their own ability and a firm belief in the product or service then why not. Providing the rewards are good enough then I dont see any reason why this should be a problem.

I guess the problem is that there aint many people out there who think this way!

[Handyhero]

Appreciated Barry.

[epiphany]

Let's focus on your cool concrete furniture :D

[Handyhero]

That's the spirit epiphany!

Thank you.

[Rob Holmes]

Let's focus on your cool concrete furniture :D

Ahha now I remember - definately the best furniture I've seen!

On the subject of telesales on commission only - hmm you may struggle there. My betting is you've got a much much better chance of finding someone who will work for a basic hourly rate (not too high - I was thinking of £6 to £8 per hr) and a commission.

Best of luck finding someone - look long enough and I'm sure you will :)

Rob

[Cornish Steve]

This is an interesting thread.

I'm surprised to read the comment about good salespeople not wanting to work on a commission-only basis. Imagine that you work for a company that sells products priced at £400 and are offered three options:

- Earn £12/hour with no commission
- Earn £6/hour plus a 10% commission
- Earn a 20% commission only

The great salesperson with total confidence in her ability to sell would choose the third option every time. The terrible salesperson who has never sold anything in his life would choose the first option every time.

Am I missing something here?

[daveashton]

Sorry a big no to option 3 for the following reasons.

1: My wife would go mad and I need to at least bring in some money because I also have kids.

2: If salespeople got £1.00 for every company that said " this is a great product/ service and is very easy to sell” I would not be working now.

3: If I become sick, have a car crash etc my family suffers but if I work for a company who respects my trade I will be looked after.


“Re 2 "All the risks"? What risks? If the cost of the phone calls is too much of a risk, then I rather doubt their confidence in their own ability.”


Why I am hoping your promises of easy money and easy sales are true I could be working for someone who will pay me a basic and give my family security and why should I take your word for it that it is that easy? If you are so confident you can put your money where your mouth is like other companies.

If you product really can be sold that easily the only issue you have is recruiting the right person because there are more bad sales people than good ones. That however is a different problem and is easy to resolve.


PS remember they not only need a skill but also a good product / service to sell. If your is so good why not sell it yourself and find another designer?

[Handyhero]

Dave

That last response is so flawed, on so many levels, that I can't even be bothered to finish typing this senten

[Rob Holmes]

Actually isn't every self-employed person on a 'commission only' pay structure?

Is there much difference?

I recently took someone on board (not in Matrixx but another company I run) on a commission only basis but he has really needed supporting and encouraging over the first 3 months until his sales pipeline built up. As it turns out I had to add some financial help as part of the encouragement.

Hope this helps,

Rob

[Alpha]

Have been following this thread with interest and thought I would put my point of view forward.

In business all relationships need to be built on a mutually beneficial partnership, whether it be a relationship which is employer/employee or business/outsourced business.

Each person is doing their part for a reason which is at its most basic level (according to Maslow) to survive. After that basic need is satisfied other needs come into play such as the challenge of growing a business and making it succesful.

The simple fact is that there are partnerships and risk should not be pushed on one side or the other. The most equitable way forward (and the one which is likely to satisfy both parties requirements) in this instance is on the basis of a basic plus commission structure. This then allows the one party to have a low cost resource and one which is also aligned to the (mutual) success of the business. The other party is able to professionally go about their business with the incentive that by doing a good job they will earn a good living as well. (Also note as far as risk is concerned,if the outsourced business does not perform the customer will simply stop using them at no further cost, whereas if it was an employee there are the costs of recruitment, the employment costs themselves and the possibility of other disruptions if the agrieved party thinks that they are unfairly dismissed)

Unfortunately I have observed all too often in our society that people always want everything for nothing or extremely little thereby only benefitting themselves and they couldnt care less about anyone else, whether it be wanting people to do PR, Sales, accounts(personal interest) or any other function (and it often happens on this forum where people join briefly, ask a question that some professional would charge a fee for and disappear never to be seen again and never contribute to the forum(I also realise that there are a number of people on here who have been on for a long time and freely give advice but they are in the minority!!).

I suppose in conclusion what I am saying is that both Dave Ashton and Handyhero have valid points although they are both protecting their own interests. It wouldnt take much movement by either in attitude to have an extremely profitable relationship for both of them(Assuming that they both have good products to offer!!!)

[Handyhero]

Thanks for that Allen

I agree with you entirely.

Unfortunately, the fledgling table venture cannot support a basic salary for a sales person. It is not the case that I want the spoils for myself alone.

Never mind. I have expressed an interest in Anne's offer of a sales person working from home at an hourly rate. I will keep the forum informed.

[Rob Holmes]

Insert all of Alphas last post

Yep, I agree. Although there are obviously people experienced enough to pick up the phone and start selling on a commission only basis there are other factors a seasoned sales person (which is what you need) would take into account like..

Product knowledge learning curve
Building up of the sales pipeline
Market demand, seasonal demand
Competition
Customer 'readiness'
Corporate 'cogs'
Ability to supply
etc etc

[Amber]

Surely many of the arguments given here against commission only ("my wife wouldn't let me because there's no guaranteed income"/ "if I get sick there's no guaranteed income" etc) could be made against any type of freelance activity, or, indeed, against running your own business? If we all took the line that these risks were just too great, we'd all be in nice, secure jobs right now and this forum wouldn't exist.

I think that, ultimately, someone whose main concern is job security won't want to work on a commission-only basis, and rightly so. You may well be lucky enough to find someone entrepreneurial minded, though, who can see the potential to make more than an average hourly rate, and who may be willing to take it on.

Good luck with it :)

[JR]

Fascinating thread I almost started one just like it a while ago as In was thinking of asking the same question. I kind of sensed this would be the response to the question so decided to do it myself. As a friend said to me no one knows your product like you. Do I like selling? No. Am I any good at it? Better than I thought I would be. Time will tell.

"ask not what I get out of this before I've done anything but what can I give to deserve something after I have been a part of it's success"

That is just a brilliant quote and I don’t think it only applies to selling. It applies to some – not all - new business ventures. I am almost tempted to print it out and stick it on the wall. I hope you will post how you get on Handyhero and don’t discount you own ability to sell what you have if you really believe in it.

[Kemble3]

How can you possibly think you could sell this concrete furniture over the telephone? The best you could do is find someone who is good at making appointments for you over the telephone, so you could them present the product and make your sales presentation. Don’t be such a tight ass and pay a basic salary with a good commission built in for every appointment they make.

One quick point on your attitude……….basically it sucks.

You asked for help and advice on this forum yet when this is given in a negative way to your thinking, you’re childish and “toys out of the pram” attitude appears (ie your last response to daveashton). Why are you afraid when people off genuine criticism?

Best wishes and I hope the furniture sells well (ohhhhhh where’s my pile cream)


Ian

[barry.hynd]

Nice to see all the sales guys sticking together!

It's always me me me eh!

[Cornish Steve]

One more perspective on this topic...

There are some industries in which it's the norm for salespeople to work on a 100% commission basis. An example in this part of the world is clothing. The sales guys work as independent contractors and represent several suppliers in front of their customers.

In this model, it's possible to offer 100% commission deals; however, your rep may decide to sell products of a competitor if she feels it's appropriate. Your commission structure had better be good.

Could you find furniture salespeople who represent many companies and add your product to their catalog?

[Handyhero]

Ian!

Hello you happy little chummy fellow.

Thank you for pointing out my flaws so enthusiastically. Unfortunately, you, like Mr Ashton, have "speed read" my posts without paying enough attention to the "read" bit. Hey Ho.

Oh, your pile cream is probably next to your vaseline.

Knock yourself out.

[Handyhero]

Steve

Thank you very much. That's an excellent idea. The sort of feedback I'd hoped for.

Reza

[Alpha]

Ok Guys

Is there any chance we can say that this thread is concluded before it simply becomes a slanging match!!

Lets just agree that there are several ways to approach it and Handy Hero has found the one that suits.

[daveashton]

I think this is a great post and I don't mind people having a different opinion.

Oh but I will put my money where my mouth is.

IF handyman can find a commission only sales person that produces even poor results i.e. GM of 10K per month and can keep the person 6 months I will donate 500 Stirling pounds to a charity of his choice and put the photo of the cheque on the forum.

The arrogant pig headed bit (sorry all I could not resist). We have grown from nothing to a group turnover of over 3 million in 2 years and 3 months with the only investment being from ploughing money in from the sales we created. This I think goes someway into proving that we might not know everything but as for selling well we have no problems in that area!

[Alpha]

Opinions are fine

Insults are totally unneccesary :wink:

[Handyhero]

Dear moderator,

That's great, Ashton can call me an aggogant pig headed git but my reply gets removed.

Thanks

[Shaggy]

Reza, I'm with you on this one.

Although I would have to say, with todays market there are few individuals, albeit being an acceptionally good salesperson, would not readily take a commission only position. Job security especially in sales has now become non-existent, as salepeople tend to hop between the best jobs and best money, and it is becoming ever more difficult to hold onto these people as an employer.

Been there, done that, worn the tee-shirt.

Saying that, the concept sounds really interesting, and had I not had my own business (and two co-directors who make me work for every penny we make), and been so dentally anal, I would look at a opportunity like this !!

[daveashton]

er where did I call handy hero an arrogant pig. I was calling myself that because I was showing off on what we have done i.e. grown from 0 - 3,000000+ in just over two years. Mind you it does give some evidence that we practice what we preach

[Anonymous]

Amazing the things you can find on the intranet.

I put an ad in our local paper for a handyman. Some geezer phoned up. I said 'Can you do wallpapering?' He said 'No'. I said 'Can you decorate?' He said 'No'. I said 'Can you do tiling?' He said 'No'. I said 'Can you do brickwork?' Again he said 'No'. In exasperation I said 'Call yourself a handyman - what's so handy about you?' He replied 'I only live around the corner'.

Booster - still going nowhere I see.......................fast!!

[daveashton]

I am glad this is back alive. So the big question. Have you found a good commission only sales person? If so please provide details on sales done.


PS since this post I asked and accountant to o our books based on results only and said it was dead easy to do and should only take 5 days a month.

Strange how they all refused and said it could take longer than that and might not be that easy.

I asked cleaners to clean the office without showing them how big and dirty it is/ gets and offered to pay them when I was happy they had done a good job. I thought it should take less than an hour and thought I was being generous offering £30.00 for that hour. They all refused.

I also asked for a website that I thought if they were good it should take 3 days. I explained briefly what I wanted and told them I would pay based on the result only. Funny thing is they all refused.

I went to a car showroom and looked at a Scooby and offered to pay if I got the figures it claimed it would do. Funny thing is they refused.


I went to buy a new shirt for work but was not sure if it would last so offered to pay for it after 2 years if it had worn well. Funny thing is they refused and said there are lots of shirts I could buy. None will let you pay later and if you can not make a decision on which one is best for you then it's my fault!. Cheeky sods eh!

Last but not least I got thrown out of PC world when I went to buy a printer. I asked the guy how many prints is was good for and he said over 18k. I told him I would pay when the printer had achieved this and started to walk out the shop still holding the printer. They took it of me and chucked me out.

Lesson?

You can buy very few things based on results only, not even a printer!

If we buy the wrong thing and it does not deliver what we thought it should. That is our fault because we bought it. If we don’t know how to buy the right thing/ service we should get help from someone that does!