Sales fallen off the edge of a cliff...

[urbanmale]

this month for some reason, anyone have any ideas for a cheap, easy fix, I was planning a site revamp but have now moved to the back burner due to lack of cashflow.

[PhilWarman]

Have you been doing a lot of marketing recently? the typical sales cycle is all the effort goes in so sales go up, because sales go up, you stop the activity and because you have stopped the activity, sooner rather than later the sales drop off as well..

[quikshop]

April was always our quietest month when we had an online fashion business. Its the post-Christmas-pre-holiday period, have you got your summer stock advertised yet?

[Nickdavis87]

have you noticed drop in traffic, or just drop in sales? Where are you actively marketing? Any new competitors on the scene?

[urbanmale]

I've noticed a drop in traffic and sales, just had to let the SEO guy go as I was unable to cover his costs even though he's been pretty good. Summer stock is online but not one item sold so far, I've only really noticed a significant change this month, prior to that it was ticking over ok. On top of that the PAYE is in jeopardy (keeping everything crossed there) but now more desparate for things to work out

[sirearl]

I've noticed a drop in traffic and sales, just had to let the SEO guy go as I was unable to cover his costs even though he's been pretty good.

Big mistake if your an online retailer SEO is the make and break of a business.

Or if your not on page 1 your not in business.

Earl

[which_08]

Please could you PM or post me details of the site i would like to take a look

[appyammer]

Please could you PM or post me details of the site i would like to take a look

click on his user name and click on his homepage,simples:rolleyes:

[PrettyPaws]

I've noticed a drop in traffic and sales, just had to let the SEO guy go as I was unable to cover his costs even though he's been pretty good.

I don't mean to make disparaging remarks but have you noticed a drop in back links/ranking? Some SEO's use there own network of sites or rent links from sites and then pull the plug if the client stops paying. Not saying this is the case but it happens :redface:

[directmarketingadvice]

this month for some reason.

If you're looking for worthwhile advice, you'll need to give more information:

(1) Which sources of traffic are producing lower levels of traffic?

(including which keywords)

(2) Have you changed the marketing you're doing?

(3) Has there been a change in your conversion rate?

(4) Have you changed your site? Have there been changes to your inventory?
(e.g. items now out of stock)

(5) Has there been any new competitors?

When sales go down, it's either traffic and/or conversion.

And, if you're tracking your business performance, you should know what's changed in those metrics.

Without telling us which numbers have changed and how, all you'll get back is guesses... and you shouldn't run your business on guesses.

(especially as the facts are so easy to see)

Steve

[Christiane]

April is always my worst month of the year too. Might be good for high street shops, but it seems no one goes near the internet over the Easter weekend!! Send a newsletter, might boost traffic.

[Mister B]

April is always my worst month of the year too. Might be good for high street shops, but it seems no one goes near the internet over the Easter weekend!! Send a newsletter, might boost traffic.

I'd like to think that a marketing calendar is in place which details all of the relevant stats and marketing activity shown on a year on year basis. That document would hopefully give an insight into not only the problem, but also possible avenues of solution.

Mister B

[urbanmale]

I'm thinking of taking the business off line for primary sales ie. market stalls, music festivals ect. getting to page one of Google is a very difficult and thankless task I think, and to get to page one of Google for what keywords specifically, mens clothing, urban clothing, mens urban clothing, ideally it needs to be for every major keyword on the site.
I dropped my SEO guy because I felt he'd started making excuses ie. the site's too young (it's 2.5 years old now) the keywords are too generic, I've found that most of these guys promise the earth and deliver nothing, mostly because they can't, at the moment they're above bankers in my list of people to hate I'm afraid.

[quikshop]

People search for mens clothing when they're browsing, looking for fashion ideas or just bored at work. If someone wants to actually buy something such as a Ralph Lauren polo shirt then they'll search for 'ralph lauren polo shirt'.

Being page one for generic search terms is not the answer to good quality traffic and a high conversation rates.

If your SEO bod had anything about him he'd have been concentrating on analysing what longer search terms are popular, what product-specific searches are driving traffic and how to make the landing pages more sticky, optimising for long tail repeating words and driving traffic to your shop that way.

[PrettyPaws]

People search for mens clothing when they're browsing, looking for fashion ideas or just bored at work. If someone wants to actually buy something such as a Ralph Lauren polo shirt then they'll search for 'ralph lauren polo shirt'.

Being page one for generic search terms is not the answer to good quality traffic and a high conversation rates.

If your SEO bod had anything about him he'd have been concentrating on analysing what longer search terms are popular, what product-specific searches are driving traffic and how to make the landing pages more sticky, optimising for long tail repeating words and driving traffic to your shop that way.

Agree 110% "Mens clothing" is exactly the type of phrase you shouldn't be after! It's quality not quantity. My best keywords in terms of traffic are also my worst in terms of conversions. For example "Dog Collars" brings the 2nd most traffic to my site....it converts at less than 1%. "Fancy Dog collars" converts at over 10%, "Collars for dogs" over 6%,"Bling dog collars" over 5%....You get the idea? Bottom line I make more money from the 3 less competative terms than I do the major one.

[deniser]

April has actually seen the first rise in clothing sales for 10 months as the weather has improved so there is no external reason why sales should have dropped.

We also sell clothing online and our sales have been steady this week and last - no drop off at all over Easter despite the fact that we weren't even open but in sunny Cyprus!

You should consider narrowing your offering. We only sell one type of clothing and it was very easy to reach no.1 spot in google for that reason. It works perfectly for us and our site is a little under 3 years old - ancient in internet shopping terms so a nonsense excuse from your SEO guy.

What is your best selling type of garment? Mens' jeans? Men's shirts? Maybe do that one item with a huge choice and that is so much easier to optimise.

[urbanmale]

Reading the replies I think I've probably gone down the wrong path re. my SEO. When my SEO guy asked me for the keywords I wanted to optimise for I went for phrases like mens clothing, urban clothing ect. and he did get those up the rankings. I now realise I should have been more specific and gone for the clothing brand itself ie. the t-shirts and jackets.

The only place the brand is on page one is via a Google adwords ad but it needs to be in the organic listings, question now is, how to correct it.

The brand was selling quite well up until the beginning of April, did very well before Christmas so I don't think it's the brand that's at fault, but now only the clothing that's been there for ages sells, but none of the new summer stock has, so far.

[Nickdavis87]

I think you will see alot better results doing what you have mentioned.. for one the term urban clothing has different connotations depending on the person. I think caps and baggy tees when i think of Urban.

Is the new stock ranking on google?

When you added the new stock did you remove any old lines? If so have you got re-directs in to take people to your site still?

Btw i remember you from the ebay business boards ;)

[urbanmale]

The new stock is indexed on Google but when you enter the keyphrase "Drunknmunky t-shirts" it should come up on the 1st page but doesn't, even though I've sold them before. The brand has been online since Sept 08, the old lines are still there, nothing's been removed. Not sure what you mean by redirects, redirects from where?

[Nickdavis87]

The new stock is indexed on Google but when you enter the keyphrase "Drunknmunky t-shirts" it should come up on the 1st page but doesn't, even though I've sold them before. The brand has been online since Sept 08, the old lines are still there, nothing's been removed. Not sure what you mean by redirects, redirects from where?

If you had removed the old products some e-commerce sites do not then re-direct users to a working page. Obviously its a moot point as you havn't removed any.

[mark dee]

The internet varies just the same a general retailing, Easter is quiet because parents have kids home from school, they go out and do things, go on holiday etc etc. It will come back and follow the same cycles as high street retailing does.

[urbanmale]

Seriously thinking of taking a raincheck, statching some cash and starting over, it just seems odd that I cancelled the contract with the SEO guy, although I could reinstate that, then sales and traffic plummetted.

I have a good friend whose job is in sales and marketing, so maybe need to have a word with him when he's back from his hols, to brainstorm some ideas, marketing's not my strongest point I have to admit.

I seriously need to start moving some stock though, or I'll have to cancel the Autumn/ Winter orders.

[KateCB]

Whilst I have every admiration for SEO, they are NOT the be all and end all of internet sales and marketing, so doubt that your cancelling your guys contract was a factor. My company started trafing online in 1999 - very little was knon about SEO then, and I learned from simple online research what google looked for, what was needed in terms of keywords etc and did it myself - I have never paid for SEO, have a page one listing in google for a couple of my keywords, and do't use adwords etc - 10 years on we are still doing OK....!

April is historically for us a poor month, Easter reduces sales as people are away, then saving for summer, and our business is cyclic - we have seasons for competitions where everyone wants everything yesterday - when Comp season is over, we are quite - April and August are killers for us.

Send out a newsletter with last seasons stock at reduced prices you need to clear the shelves and put the moneyin the bank - send out a newsletter 'announcing' the arrival of summer stock - make n offer for the first 50 orders quoting 'abgshg' code - free P+P or a free gift or something - generate not only interest but awareness among your previous customers - if you don't remind them that you are still there, they forget. Even if they don't buy from the newsletter, it reminds them and they may come back in a week/months time.

Meanwhile, cut your costs, reduce hours that staff work, take a lower wage tis month, turn lighs off etc......Good luck and keep your chin up - I am in your situation every August!

[PrettyPaws]

Reading the replies I think I've probably gone down the wrong path re. my SEO. When my SEO guy asked me for the keywords I wanted to optimise for I went for phrases like mens clothing, urban clothing ect. and he did get those up the rankings. I now realise I should have been more specific and gone for the clothing brand itself ie. the t-shirts and jackets.

The only place the brand is on page one is via a Google adwords ad but it needs to be in the organic listings, question now is, how to correct it.


Disagree, your SEO should have told you what you should be aiming for and reasoning behind it! It's his job to find you the best keywords to aim for not yours IMHO.

[KidsBeeHappy]

Don't forget the weather too. People do not sit inside and surf the internet for impulse purchases when the sun is shining, not without a very good reason.

[urbanmale]

Prettypaws,
That was what I'd expected IMO also, I was assured he was good, did my research ect. but my traffic levels were the same when I forced, and I mean forced, him to cancel the contract as they were when he began. Hiring competent SEO's is a bit hit and miss I guess, a bit like finding good builders :(

Boxby,
Sun is shining, are you in the Canaries or somewhere?

[PrettyPaws]

Prettypaws,
That was what I'd expected IMO also, I was assured he was good, did my research ect. but my traffic levels were the same when I forced, and I mean forced, him to cancel the contract as they were when he began. Hiring competent SEO's is a bit hit and miss I guess, a bit like finding good builders :(


Agreed, which is why I do it myself! :)

[hughlss]

My sales have fallen off the edge a cliff also and I'm quite happy about that.
But, then again, I sell abseiling equipment!


(no, not really - just thought it might bring a smile when all is doom and gloom)

Hugh

[accountancyextra]

I've noticed a drop in traffic and sales, just had to let the SEO guy go as I was unable to cover his costs even though he's been pretty good. Summer stock is online but not one item sold so far, I've only really noticed a significant change this month, prior to that it was ticking over ok. On top of that the PAYE is in jeopardy (keeping everything crossed there) but now more desparate for things to work out

If it helps with the PAYE, call the HMRC business support line. They can let you spread the payments over anything up to 12 months. May help with some cashflow issues

[urbanmale]

So in light of that, has anyone any tips/ideas as to how I can get the keyphrase "drunknmunky clothing" onto page one of Google, I have to start selling the brand or I'm in serious doo dah.

PAYE was as in full time job ie. I'm still working for someone else nothing to do with my tax situation.

[UKSBD]

You have a problem with your main munky page.
The secure page has been indexed and is blocking the normal page.

[urbanmale]

I have no idea what that means, how would I fix it?

[urbanmale]

Is the two stoned main page blocked too, because the phrases two stoned and two stoned clothing both used to be on page one but now they're not to be found anywhere, this has all happened since the SEO guy pulled his services, both brands used to sell well before then, I've had two sales this month both of which are old stock. :(

[downsouth]

two stoned stills works for me, your using zen cart so prob have a random cycle of all products appearing on the index page, if you refresh they all change.

If they ur best seller, make them featured products, they will appear in to main section, but the key is to not have too many featured products or you'll suffer as per my first comment

[UKSBD]

Is the two stoned main page blocked too, because the phrases two stoned and two stoned clothing both used to be on page one but now they're not to be found anywhere, this has all happened since the SEO guy pulled his services, both brands used to sell well before then, I've had two sales this month both of which are old stock. :(


Looks like it.

try this search,
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbanmaleclothing.com+88

3rd result down

[downsouth]

Looks like it.

try this search,
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbanmaleclothing.com+88

3rd result down

What does that mean? is the 88 an issue?

apols for not knowing :)

[urbanmale]

Downsouth,
I have 68 featured products at the moment I guess I need to take quite a few out.

UKSBD,
I clicked that link and I just got the normal two stoned page ie. I can't see any difference re. that being the secure page as opposed to the normal page. Do you think I should have a word with these guys tomorrow something's obviously changed, how can you go from selling OK to selling almost nothing overnight.

[PrettyPaws]

how can you go from selling OK to selling almost nothing overnight.

Your analytics should be able to give you some clues on that.

[urbanmale]

This is the site page url:
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=88 (http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=88)

This is the indexed page url:
https://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/two-stoned-c-88.html?page=1&sort=20a

[UKSBD]

88 is the two stoned page.

That search should reveal your two stoned page, but it reveals a secure
version of it instead.

Go to the secure page and view the cache.
Now go to the proper page,
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=88
and view the cache.

You need to find out why the secure page has been indexed.

(typed this before you posted)

[UKSBD]

You also have this page,
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/two-stoned-c-88.html

which has PR but no cache.

[urbanmale]

Prettypaws,

Analytics tells me that I'm no longer getting many if any organics hits on either keyword, it's difficuclt to do a past comparison as they stripped all that out as well so I had to reinstate it and start over.

[urbanmale]

Can't seem to find the proper page to view the cache

[downsouth]

You also have this page,
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/two-stoned-c-88.html

which has PR but no cache.

Did they install some SEO friendly software?

changes the links to more SEO friendly format instead of gobbledgook (index.php? etc etc)

All your current links are in Zen's standard format

[urbanmale]

Oh yes I've just realised they've changed everything back to the way it was before they began including the urls which as you say are now the standard gobbledgook, this explains why my sales have gone thru the floor, I cancelled the contract before it was due to end but still paid them in excess of £1600, thanks for pointing that out ;)

[PrettyPaws]

Oh yes I've just realised they've changed everything back to the way it was before they began including the urls which as you say are now the standard gobbledgook, this explains why my sales have gone thru the floor, I cancelled the contract before it was due to end but still paid them in excess of £1600, thanks for pointing that out ;)

What? They undid all the work you paid them to do!? You're joking right? How come you're not SHOUTING about this!!! I'd be going off my head! In fact I am and it's not even my site!!:mad: These guys have sabataged your business by the sounds of it!

[FireFleur]

He has just realised.

If you want some help send me a PM, it is unfair what has been done to you, so I will give you a bit of time if you need some help to sort it out.

I like your site, I was going advise you change the stock to something more street and cheaper just for the recession and then move the designer stuff back in. Guys tend to buy in a different pattern to ladies, the first thing to go is the clothes budget, too many gadgets to buy :)

[urbanmale]

Oh believe me Prettypaws I am absolutely fuming and no I'm not joking, trust me I can't wait for tomorrow to get here, I've been tearing my hair out trying to figure why, all of a sudden no sales! Downsouth has just made me aware of what's happened, I had assumed that cancelling the contract meant don't do any more not undo what's been done.
I wish I could name and shame on here, not that I would I'm too nice ;) but maybe the threat would do the trick.

[urbanmale]

FireFleur,
I may well take you up on your offer I need to speak to them tomorrow first to see what they have to say.

I do have a very good cheaper line sourced, but the lack of sales has knocked my confidence, plus thinking it was something outside of my control ie. the economy.

We do have too many gadgets to buy so thankfully 60 - 70% of my buyers are female trying to get the husbands/partners/boyfriends out of the same t-shirt they've been wearing for 5 years. LOL

[PrettyPaws]

Oh believe me Prettypaws I am absolutely fuming and no I'm not joking, trust me I can't wait for tomorrow to get here, I've been tearing my hair out trying to figure why, all of a sudden no sales! Downsouth has just made me aware of what's happened, I had assumed that cancelling the contract meant don't do any more not undo what's been done.
I wish I could name and shame on here, not that I would I'm too nice ;) but maybe the threat would do the trick.

Well I did wonder if they'd dropped your back links as already mentioned but they've gone even further than that! They're pretty much holding you to randsom, didn't you say they were an honest bunch? I honestly am speechless, I’ve never heard anything like it! You must name and shame them before they take ££££ from others. That really is quite unbelievable, they've completely ruined your business for months probably, if not longer!

[UKSBD]

try this search in google,
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com+-php

is that how all the pages were up until recently?

[urbanmale]

They did a lot of back linking from directories they should still be there but only because they can't remove them, probably but they were linked into a bunch of text on the homepage which has also been deleted along with a more relevant homepage title.

I had really good recommendations for them they weren't and don't cold call or email.

My summer stock, the munky stuff, went online end of March and it usually sells "out of the gate" the changes were made at the same time, so I guess Google is now having to re-index all the page titles and it's doing it without the product keywords, hence the no show, fall in traffic and drop in sales.

I don't want to have to cancel my winter order as I'm in on the ground floor with the brand, they've just had a write up in Drapers and been sponsors at the MOBO awards.

[PrettyPaws]

so I guess Google is now having to re-index all the page titles and it's doing it without the product keywords, hence the no show, fall in traffic and drop in sales.

I don't want to have to cancel my winter order as I'm in on the ground floor with the brand, they've just had a write up in Drapers and been sponsors at the MOBO awards.

If I'm readin this right they will have to reindex the whole page, not just the titles. If they linked back to the "SEO friendly" pages they will be lost as I guess those pages no longer exist?

[UKSBD]

If I'm readin this right they will have to reindex the whole page, not just the titles. If they linked back to the "SEO friendly" pages they will be lost as I guess those pages no longer exist?

Looks like a lot of old pages are still there, but the navigation system
isn't pointing to them anymore.
Look at the navigation on the cached snapshot of this page foe example,
http://209.85.229.132/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIC_en-GBGB266GB266&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbanmaleclothing.com%2Fd runknmunky-summer-of-love-trip-tshirt-p-572.html

[urbanmale]

My pages used to be something like this:
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/Drunknmunky/DrunknmunkyMiniMunkyT-Shirt.php

[UKSBD]

My pages used to be something like this:
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/Drunknmunky/DrunknmunkyMiniMunkyT-Shirt.php

sure you don't mean .html ?

http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/Drunknmunky/DrunknmunkyMiniMunkyT-Shirt.html

[urbanmale]

Sorry yes html

[downsouth]

if they've used something like 'magic seo' or 'power seo urls' then whats happened is that they have either turned off the seo module or totally unistalled.

If you have 'admin' access (which I hope you have and the password has not been changed :eek:) take a look in the admin panel (either config, tools or modules)

the 'pages' will still exist just back under the original zen cart SEO format

[PrettyPaws]

What Fi'ng to$$ers.

[PrettyPaws]

What F'ing to$$ers.

[urbanmale]

They installed the re-write url module which I assumed I'd paid for so thought it would stay there I'd not notice that they'd put it back to zencart default until you pointed it out, so I'm a bit in shock at the moment, I'm hoping they've just been a bit over zealous here.

I have access to the admin area but a bit of a numpty in that area so reluctant to mess with it in case I do some real damage.

[urbanmale]

They installed the re-write url module which I assumed I'd paid for so thought it would stay there I'd not notice that they'd put it back to zencart default until you pointed it out, so I'm a bit in shock at the moment, I'm hoping they've just been a bit over zealous here.

I have access to the admin area but a bit of a numpty in that area so reluctant to mess with it in case I do some real damage.

[PrettyPaws]

They installed the re-write url module which I assumed I'd paid for so thought it would stay there I'd not notice that they'd put it back to zencart default until you pointed it out, so I'm a bit in shock at the moment, I'm hoping they've just been a bit over zealous here.

I have access to the admin area but a bit of a numpty in that area so reluctant to mess with it in case I do some real damage.

I think the real damage has already been done mate. I'm gutted for you.

[urbanmale]

Please don't say that, I must be able to salvage this somehow just by getting everything put back as it was.

[PrettyPaws]

Please don't say that, I must be able to salvage this somehow just by getting everything put back as it was.

Yes probably (& hopefully), but it will take time to reindex it all and sort itself out that's what I mean. Will you be able to get it all back though? As I said, some of the links they had may have been rented and they will be gone, all your titles and content have been removed etc etc. I honestly can't believe somebody would do this to you, I've heard of some pretty crap SEO companies but this could have been your only source of income, your livelihood. It's unbelievable that they would wish you such harm after you paid them in good faith to carry out work on your behalf.

[Burden]

Is this a wind up?

I can see them doing this if you dont pay them the money owed but you paid £1600.
What a bunch of idiots.

Its a bit like buying a kitchen and saying you might use there fitters, you dont use there fitters and they come and take out the kitchen.

They are taking the &^$%

[Nickdavis87]

First thing i would do is read your contract.. see if this is in it, what you have paid for outright and what is "rented"

The second thing i would do is start estimating how much you have lost because of what they have done.

As SEO "experts" they knew this would happen and have sabotaged your business.

Name and shame.

[PrettyPaws]

As SEO "experts" they knew this would happen and have sabotaged your business.

Name and shame.

Couldn't agree more...unbelievable

[Christiane]

Been following this thread and although I can't offer any input, I'm appalled by what that SEO company has done to you and your business, I just hope they are not members of the forum! Your time should be spent on the business not on fixing their mess, I feel sorry for you and hope you can get back to normal quickly.

[urbanmale]

mmm I think I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight, and I have to work tomorrow night:(

[PrettyPaws]

mmm I think I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight, and I have to work tomorrow night:(

Sorry mate, but at least you know the issue now and how to fix. That's got to be a good thing.

Gaz

[quikshop]

If they have reversed their on-site seo work out of spite then link to them and then point them in the direction of this thread, it'll be interesting to see if they choose to defend or justify their actions... or run scared :eek:

The damage done is recoverable. We recently re-developed a very well indexed website including page name changes which had a negative impact on traffic and SERPS.

Google's now done its thing and indexed the new pages and the traffic and SERPs are better than before we started messing with it.

We used 301 permanent redirects (using PHP) to direct traffic from the old pages to the new ones, its worked a treat but it took a nervous 4 - 6 weeks to recover its SERPs and traffic :redface:

I think you need to create a new thread on the SEO part of the forum and get the Old Welsh chap, Earl and others on the case :cool:

[downsouth]

it might be quite a simple job to re-create the SEO friendly links, whats the name of the module they installed?

i think theres a few other zen guys on here who could assist too

[urbanmale]

Oh don't worry I'll be calling them late tomorrow morning, most of these web guys don't get out of bed til then, and emailing them this thread.

I guess I could start a thread on the SEO board with a link to this one.

[PrettyPaws]

I wouldn't bother sending them this link it'll justget their back up, just ring and ask why this has happened and how they're going to put it right.

[urbanmale]

Yes maybe you're right, my head will be cooler in the morning;)

[deniser]

Big commiserations from a very sympathetic fellow clothing retailer. Hope you get it sorted soon.

[Nicksyb]

Just read this and that is absolutely awful, how can they even sleep at night :(
I really do hope this gets all sorted out for you

[movietub]

Don't suppose the SEO guy was submitting to Google base/shopping was he? Stopping that could take an easy 50% out of sales!

And if he wasn't submitting you should start to do - since its free and all!

[urbanmale]

Well I didn't sleep a wink last night:(

The googlebase I do through Zencart admin take about 10 secs

[movietub]

Well I didn't sleep a wink last night:(

The googlebase I do through Zencart admin take about 10 secs

Have you searched yourself on Base to make sure the listings are there? We are with EKM which is also automated submissions. Failed 3 times this year already!

[Burden]

heard from SEO guy yet?

[urbanmale]

I've spoken to the company but not the SEO guy as yet, some stuff has already been sorted they were all very apologetic and helpful about it so feeling way better about the situation now.

Have picked up a lot of very useful info on the SEO forum, so need to work on my product page titles, and get one of the guys there to sort an adwords campaign out for me to try kick start everything.

[Nickdavis87]

Glad to hear you are back on track :) (or on your way)

[PrettyPaws]

I've spoken to the company but not the SEO guy as yet, some stuff has already been sorted they were all very apologetic and helpful about it so feeling way better about the situation now.

Have picked up a lot of very useful info on the SEO forum, so need to work on my product page titles, and get one of the guys there to sort an adwords campaign out for me to try kick start everything.

Great news, I guess the cheque for compensation is in the post? How much will this have cost you (roughly) in terms of missed sales by the time it's sorted? :( I wonder if it's a tactic they use with all clients in the hope they will not find out what has actually happened and start up the contract again?

How did they explain what they had done?

[iamlijo]

Checkout each webmaster guide lines and check whether you broke any guidelines by google

http://www.google.co.uk/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en-uk&answer=3576 and if you think you have viloated any , request for reconsideration at the goole webmasters tool.

[urbanmale]

I'm beginning to lose interest now 12 days and counting and still no sales, it's as if someones put a message saying "do not buy this site is dodgy" or something.

I've done a few changes as has been suggested on this thread not completed them all as I'm feeling very demotivated might as well switch off comp, save electricity:(

[fisicx]

I'm beginning to lose interest now 12 days and counting and still no sales, it's as if someones put a message saying "do not buy this site is dodgy" or something.

Are you still getting the visitors?

[UKSBD]

By changing the URL's (and without redirecting) you effectively deleted
any pages that were ranking, these got dropped by google and replaced
with the new URL's which obviously don't rank as well.

Now that you have changed back, you have to wait until google realises
the new pages are back and the other version gone.

As long as you are sure the new URL's won't change again you need some
good strong deeplinks setting up to your most important pages.

I'm sure there are a few people here who are prepared to help out.
Let us know which you consider your 5 most important pages first.

[FireFleur]

Do a test order on a brand new account, make sure the buy line is still in place and doesn't error.

And you should start checking your logs, see how people are moving through the site.

[urbanmale]

I'm still getting some visitors not as many as before but even they're not converting, there has to be something seriously wrong here, it's like things have shut down overnight, my site was never big on conversion in the first place, don't ask me why I just don't know, but never as bad as this.

The urls were only changed 3 weeks ago and changed back this week to as they are now, they'll not be changing again.

My 5 most important page are these:
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/drunknmunky-c-107.html
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/tshirts-c-60.html
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/jackets-c-76.html
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/shorts-c-92.html
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/two-stoned-c-88.html

The only good bit of news this morning is that a jouno range up and wants to do article in the London Lite newspaper about one of my products, so a free plug at least.

[urbanmale]

I've done a test order everything's fine easy peasy.

By checking my logs I assume you mean my analytics, I'll probably get Steve Gibson on the SEO board to take a look cos they might as well be in a foreign language.

[urbanmale]

Well the SEO guy doesn't want to know, said he was inundated with work and to come back in a couple of months; I think I'll be out of business by then:(

[FireFleur]

Well, I actually mean your web server log files, you want to be downloading those once a day or so and look at the actual data.

Why are you using the same SEO guy?

[urbanmale]

I dont have web server log files just analytics and zencart admin.

Because I'm trying to salvage something from this mess and I've no other ideas as to what to do, a different SEO guy will rip my off too, so better the devil you know.

[SFD]

PM sent to you urbanmale

[PrettyPaws]

Well the SEO guy doesn't want to know, said he was inundated with work and to come back in a couple of months; I think I'll be out of business by then:(

I would be looking at legal advice to be honest, you're not asking them for a favor! What does your contract say? Have they now reinstated everything that they took away? How many sales/hits per day were you getting this time last month compared to now?

It's just a waiting game now if everything is back to who it was.

[Burden]

I would defineatly be speaking to someone about the legalities of this, you have paid for a service and because you cant afford or are not happy with the service they are providing they undo all the previous work they done?

Not a chance, that is a joke! I'd not be letting him near, more like hitting him with a hammer!

[LBtrading]

I have just read the thread and I will offer to help with SEO free of charge,
I dont know why im doing this but take advantage ha,

I will offer to help for a couple of keywords and my help will be mainly linkbuilding,

I have done some keyword research in google based on the drunknmunky brand that you want to traget:

[drunknmunky clothing] had 260 searches last month in the uk
[drunknmunky t shirts] had 110 searches last month in the uk

thats 370 searches so say you were position 1 on google and had a click through rate of 40% for being number one in organic results that would get you 148 visits and say you had a conversion rate of 1% it would generate 1-2 sales a month

I would expect conversion rates to be higher becasue it is a more specific search term but that would depend on your site.

CURRENT PROBLEMS:
The first major problem you have apart from the damage already done is your title tags.

You have the differenet pages that have some of the same keywords in your title tag so for instance your home page has the keyword "drunknmunky t-shirts" and so does the t-shirts category page http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/tshirts-tshirts-c-60_61.html

It would be better to decide what pages you want to target certain keywords.

now for the term drunknmunky t shirts

you are in the first page in position 9 the page that ranks is your home page,

now at the moment it would be ok for your home page to rank for that keyword because you have those products on your home page, but if you expand to other brands then your visitors will have to navigate to find the products they were looking for.

If you reply to this thread what page you want to rank for the two keywords I will do some link building for you also I can chat on msn if you would like to chat direct or email me at leonbreakwell AT Gmail com

I will give more advice on reply

good luck

[UKSBD]

The other big problems you have are your top and bottom navigation links
are still pointing to the wrong pages.
This means when going to brands, the left nav points to one page
the nav from the logos points to another version of the same page.
This is also happening in other places too.
i.e. reviews, top images on homepage

You're effectively competing pages against each other and at the moment
the ones which most people would consider the wrong ones, are winning.

Also, don't link to index.php when linking back to the homepage
google is currently seeing them as 2 different pages.

[urbanmale]

Good grief this is in a real mess, looks like I have my work cut out trying to fix this, I've been speaking at length to an SEO guy recommended to me from a poster on this thread, so I'm going to take the weekend out to figure out how I'm going to proceed. I have the PUMA brand logo there still and don't sell the product any more.

Steve

[urbanmale]

Hi Leon,
Many thanks for your offer of SEO, very much appreciated.

The Drunknmunky brings up many more searches if you use the different forms of the word ie.
drunknmunky, drunk n munky, drunknmonkey, drunknmonky, drunken munky ect.
2 sales a month wouldn't do it I'd need 2 per day.

I've been redoing the title tags over and over, those on the homepage are there temporarily just to try get things moving again, they're not ideal though for the reasons you explained. I think maybe the Drunknmunky products need to be broken up onto separate pages as sub caregories eg. t-shirts > jackets > jeans ect. and then to keyword each page appropriately.

I'm taking the weekend out to have a good long think about how to proceed because my head's spinning with it all the moment.

regards Steve

[UKSBD]

Just as important as the title tags etc. is the anchor text to the pages
and the headers of the pages.

If you are linking to a page of DrunknMunky T-Shirts you shouldn't just
be using T-Shirts as the anchor text, The main header shouldn't just
say T-Shirts too.

You need to remember to treat google like an idiot.
Tell it what the page your linking to is about with the link, and tell it
what the page is about when it gets there.

[urbanmale]

No linking with any Drunknmunky keywords has been done as yet, the SEO guy I just fired linked to keywords like mens clothing, urban clothing ect. hence the low conversion rates, he asked me to choose the keywords myself and in my naivety I chose those keywords:(

The new linking will have:
drunknmunky t-shirts, drunk n munky t-shirts, drunknmonkey t-shirts, drunknmonky t-shirts, drunken munky t-shirts, drunknmunky t-shirts ect. and then the same for all the other Drunknmunky products, I'm assuming that's the correct way to go.

Steve

[LBtrading]

Hi urban, I understand that there is much to be done, I understand that 1 or 2 sales a month is not enough that was exactly what I was trying to get across, most of the brand related keywrds get very little searches, but aslo they are not very competitive. When you have your onpage seo sorted and everything else give me a quick email or pm and I will build you a few links.

[Adam Moore]

If you've made any changes to your site you might have unwittingly affected your conversion rates.

Check your bounce rates for your top landing pages because this will give you a quick indication of the quality of traffic coming to your site and compare it to any changes.

It's basic stuff but there might be something obvious going on that you're missing.

You could also run your site through a tool like Website Grader (http://website.grader.com/desktopmodules/ingeni-websitegrader/WsgPublic.aspx) to get an idea of how your site is being indexed. It's not that scientific and it's certainly not a substitute for an SEO professional but again it'll help flag up any obvious flaws.

Another user here suggested that you might have a new competitor. If you type 'related:www.whateveryoursiteis.com' into Google you'll see sites that Google thinks are related to yours. Maybe there'll be another clue there for you.

Anyway good luck with the problem and I hope some of these suggestions help.

Adam

[PrettyPaws]

Have you managed to take any legal advice at all Steve? Regarding loss of earnings and damage to your business?

[OldWelshGuy]

No linking with any Drunknmunky keywords has been done as yet, the SEO guy I just fired linked to keywords like mens clothing, urban clothing ect. hence the low conversion rates, he asked me to choose the keywords myself and in my naivety I chose those keywords:(

The new linking will have:
drunknmunky t-shirts, drunk n munky t-shirts, drunknmonkey t-shirts, drunknmonky t-shirts, drunken munky t-shirts, drunknmunky t-shirts ect. and then the same for all the other Drunknmunky products, I'm assuming that's the correct way to go.

Steve

What a mess :( My advice would be to put the sef urls back in place and resubmit a sitemap to google sitemaps in webmaster tools.

But first before you do ANYTHING, with those keywords, set them into an adwrods campaign and test out their conversion rates. Doing this will allow you to know if they will convert or not, that way you can remove the guesswork, and optimise for the phrases that DO convert.

Have you got many warnings from google WMT? there should be a whole load of errors in there, but have a good look for technical and QUALITY errors, this will tell you if you have really pissed them off, or just confused them a bit :)

[urbanmale]

Adam,
The only changes that have been made are the stripping out of the SEO by the guy I contacted to do the work, I also wasn't given good advice on the correct keywords to target I just ran it thru website grader and got a score of 85, don't know if that's good or bad.

OldWelshGuy,
The SEF's have been back a week now and have resubmitted a sitemap today, I can do that thru my Zencart admin by updating XML and then pinging Google. I haven't any warnings from Google, adwords I'm useless at, never had a conversion from them but then analytics is not set properly up to track them, he, the SEO, was supposed to do that.

What the site needs is a good professional SEO to go through the site, look at the analytics after they've been set up properly, I can't do goals or funnels because the coding isn't there to track, and to sort it out properly.

Prettypaws,
No legal proceeding have been taken, that sounds like more money down the pan.

Steve

[urbanmale]

On the Drunknmunky product page my stats are:
entrances 48
bounces 10
bounce rate 20.83%

No idea what any of that means though, this is why I either have to employ someone or someone have to explain it to me.

Steve

[OldWelshGuy]

The SEF's have been back a week now and have resubmitted a sitemap today, I can do that thru my Zencart admin by updating XML and then pinging Google.
That should help as it will show Google you are not a bad webmaster, and that you are in fact re-arranging your site, and have told them so professionally (that will help with google trust ranking)

I haven't any warnings from Google,
you MUST have had warnings in webmaster tools as you dumped all your urls so you should have had loads of 404 errors in the crawl area of WMT :( ?

adwords I'm useless at, never had a conversion from them but then analytics is not set properly up to track them,
In other words you are going hunting with a blindfold on, which means you are not sure if you have killed anything and even if you DO kill food then you can't find it anyhow? This needs to be done ASAP.

he, the SEO, was supposed to do that.
He hasn't so pay someone $20 to do it for you. you can't run a business online without analytics, proper conversion tracking etc, it is plain nuts.

What the site needs is a good professional SEO to go through the site, look at the analytics after they've been set up properly, I can't do goals or funnels because the coding isn't there to track, and to sort it out properly.
This will cost money though, and you say you have none :(.


I have replied inline in red.

[OldWelshGuy]

On the Drunknmunky product page my stats are:
entrances 48
bounces 10
bounce rate 20.83%

No idea what any of that means though, this is why I either have to employ someone or someone have to explain it to me.

Steve

It means that 48 people landed on your site at this page, and 10 people left at it. it doesn't mean that they left immediately though, it means they left on the same page they came in on. 20.83% = 10 divided by 48 multiplied by 100 ( or 10/48*100 ) to give you your % bounce rate :)

[UKSBD]

OWG you say,

"you MUST have had warnings in webmaster tools as you dumped all your urls so you should have had loads of 404 errors in the crawl area of WMT"

I think that is Urbans main problem, the URL's were never dumped, but
there are 2 versions of them running at the same time.

It is more a case that the navigation system was all changed and the
links to the SEF URL's was replaced by links to the other version.

The problem now appears to be that there are navigation systems to both
still, and the non SEF URL's are out ranking the friendly ones.

[OldWelshGuy]

I see what you mean :)

So why not put in place a 301 redirect match across the board? that would solve the problem... The site could well get nailed with a spam penalty if it is serving up the entire site across multiple urls :(

[urbanmale]

OldWelshGuy,
This is a right old mess, what's a 301 redirect and how do I add one.
I do have the money but not to waste on some useless SEO crook.

My site's not verified in webmaster tools, it used to be, I have this html key thing to upload, how do I do that?

Steve

[OldWelshGuy]

OldWelshGuy,
This is a right old mess, what's a 301 redirect and how do I add one.
I do have the money but not to waste on some useless SEO crook.

My site's not verified in webmaster tools, it used to be, I have this html key thing to upload, how do I do that?

Steve

301 redirection is not to be done by someone who doesn't know what theya re doing, so forget about it for the time being.

You need to upload the file in google. create a file with any programme, upload it to the server (using either ftp or file transfer frm within control panel) if you have cpanel hosting. then rename the file to whatever google tell you it had to be called. They just check it is there.

Once you have uploaded it, then verify your site, and have a look under the bonnet of WMT.

[urbanmale]

Do I just upload it to anywhere on the server or into a specific folder?

It's supposed to be an html file prefixed by the key I think.

Think I need to hire someone again don't I.

Steve

[urbanmale]

I've just emailed some SEO guy in India see if he can help, well it all gets farmed out there anyway so might as well start at the source.

Steve

[SFD]

I've just emailed some SEO guy in India see if he can help, well it all gets farmed out there anyway so might as well start at the source.

Steve

That could be a bit like getting a building site labourer to design and build you a house. :)

[UKSEOAgency]

That made me laugh!

I dont like dissing other companies, but indian SEO's as a general rule of thumb (and im sure there are some very good ones out there) are shocking!

They take your money, add a load of spammy content to your website, and suggest you have a links page to create "many reciprical links" and "lots of 3 way links" to gain the rankings. They usually lie to you extensively as well, saying your site is not ranking in any search engine (which for the keyword i was checking them out against, it was 1st).

If it was my business, I would rather spend the time researching what I am doing and do it myself, there are a lot of blogs out there which give you a lot of information and risk doing the job myself than let an indian SEO work there "magic"

I know there are probably a lot of good Indian SEO's out there, but unfortunately the industry is even more tainted by horror stories than any other countries I can find!

The only thing going for them, is the price!

[OldWelshGuy]

Do I just upload it to anywhere on the server or into a specific folder?

It's supposed to be an html file prefixed by the key I think.

Think I need to hire someone again don't I.

Steve

just upload it to the root directory of your hosting ie. wherever your main pages are when you log into FTP (normally/htdocs on apache servers. :)

[urbanmale]

Not laughing here just very angry, fustrated and don't know which way to turn :((

I've just done what I thought should be done but still not verified :((

Steve

[OldWelshGuy]

did you go back into WMT and verify it?

[urbanmale]

I clicked verify site and it still says site not verified

[Burden]

Forget the indian, get someone from here

[Nickdavis87]

I think the answer for where to find a good SEO guy (or Gal) is right under your nose (in this thread), its clear there are alot of SEO guys here that are knowledgable so give them a go ;)

[Mister B]

I think the answer for where to find a good SEO guy (or Gal) is right under your nose (in this thread), its clear there are alot of SEO guys here that are knowledgable so give them a go ;)

Absolutely. You get what you pay for.

Thanks from me to everyone who continues to make this thread so informative.

OWG-Congrats on your addition to the Mods club.

Mister B

[PrettyPaws]

I've just emailed some SEO guy in India see if he can help, well it all gets farmed out there anyway so might as well start at the source.

Steve

Steve.....don't mean to be rude but ARE YOU NUTS?! You've just been ripped off big time and your website has been ruined and you're emailing "some SEO guy in india"? If you are looking for somebody to fix the mess why not look a little closer to home (ie the this thread) as you are being given some great free help by people who actually know what they're doing. They wont farm your business out to india either.

[movietub]

I'm beginning to lose interest now 12 days and counting and still no sales, it's as if someones put a message saying "do not buy this site is dodgy" or something.

I've done a few changes as has been suggested on this thread not completed them all as I'm feeling very demotivated might as well switch off comp, save electricity:(

Bottom line is your website is stuffed. Google hates it and no one who has used it before is using it again. Whatever long term plan the oringinal SEO guy had is lost and whatever prep he did is now worthless.

You need 2 things:

1) A relaunch

2) An SEO guy you can trust - because in the time you will take to learn SEO yourself you too will become stuffed.

Quickest method:

1) Swap hosting and rebrand the site, clearly the current brand/domain has no value as sales have stopped despite the site still existing. In doing so you start fresh with Google.

2) Start a fresh post asking for SEO guys to pm you with their solutions for your site. Pick the one you like, agree a target, if they hit it you give them 20% of your business. In doing so you get complete loyalty from your SEO guy.

Thats radical but you have to accept that you made mistakes, because you're human. What matters now is you fix them and move on.

Is there any part of the above plan that would not put you in a better position than currently and would not also secure your future growth?

[Me Google Guy]

Hi Steve

I've been following this thread very closely, and I'd like to add my two cents worth.

One of your original posts states "I just had to let the SEO guy go as I was unable to cover his costs even though he's been pretty good."

Earl correctly responded with "Big mistake if your an online retailer SEO is the make and break of a business."

Although there are plenty of so called SEO's out there who'll take your money and do nothing, there are also plenty of ethical honest ones also.

From what you wrote, obviously the SEO guy was doing something right and bringing in the business to your website as now this has dried up since you 'let him go'.

Steve, why did he remove the SEO work? It seems like you had a decent relationship up until now. Do you still owe him money for the work he originally did, as you wrote you were unable to cover his costs? I mention this as most SEO's charge for the year not just a one off fee, so it seems unusual that you can just cancel your SEO immediately and walk away.

You also mentioned, that you called the SEO recently and they weren't interested in working for you. You would think that during a recession people would be crying out for business. This Steve backs up my assumptions.

Nobody has dwelled on this but it's certainly worth consideration.

Steve, I mention this as a constructive form of criticism, if you do owe him/her money, it may be more straight forward to pay them what you owe and they'll put your business back on line right away.

[UKSBD]

Nice to see the site has recovered, have sales picked up too?

[barginboyrob]

I' doing pretty bad also, 2000 hits and no sales this week!

[urbanmale]

Hello again,
Things did get better for a while, until the beginning of this month, we've been tweaking the site with small changes every couple of weeks however in the last 10 days things have gone sour again. I'm not sure if we've gone a tweak to far in adding a "buy now" call to action on the product pages I have a feeling it should read something else but what I'm not certain.

reagrds Steve

[JIrwin1982]

Yes same here, my sales are 25% down on last month (traffic remains about the same month on month).... People are wanting to buy but dont have the cash? Thats all I can think of.

Also I am looking for an EXPERIECNED, well proven SEO freelancer. If you have any recommendations please pass their details to me!

Thanks
James

[OldWelshGuy]

Hello again,
Things did get better for a while, until the beginning of this month, we've been tweaking the site with small changes every couple of weeks however in the last 10 days things have gone sour again. I'm not sure if we've gone a tweak to far in adding a "buy now" call to action on the product pages I have a feeling it should read something else but what I'm not certain.

reagrds Steve

Change that to 'add to basket' or add to cart' Ok you will get more abandoned carts, but you will also (more importantly) get more sales.

When you say 'gone bad, are you talking about traffic/rankings, or conversion ratios, or sales or more?

[urbanmale]

On this page:
http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/drunknmunky-c-107.html

I was going to change to "choose size" as it's a call to action plus that's the next step before adding to basket, would that be wrong? and is "Buy Now" wrong on this page:

http://www.urbanmaleclothing.com/drunknmunky-slammer-zipped-track-top-p-525.html

The whole site is a mess at the moment so trying to get it sorted ASAP

Steve